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Old 02-14-2012, 09:39 PM   #76
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and thats why the western world is so fucked up..

anyone who has spent any time in Europe etc. would probably agree that a simpler life seems to be a happier one

while i was travelling through Europe i came to that realization, specifically in places where i indirectly knew people such as Finland etc. I would meet absolutely gorgeous girls who back in Vancouver would be the biggest stuck up cunts in the world, There they could not be nicer and more accommodating, and this literally went for -everyone- i met

no one cared about who drove what, where you lived, etc. I stayed with people who had 1.5+ million euro condo's in downtown helsinki, who travelled with me to meet other relatives who lived in small 900sq foot apartments, and the people never batted an eye either way, people with excellent jobs had good friends that had shitty jobs, a "class" system, although obviously existing, never put restrictions on people like it does here
You're basing that on one experience, and your experience. Doesn't necessarily mean that's the way the world works.

I have friends from all sorts of economic backgrounds. I ended up going to private school in high school and most of my high school friends were driving around in Range Rovers, Benz's and the odd Ferrari. My elementary school friends who weren't so well off mingled with my new high school friends just fine. We never looked at each other based on material assets, stock portfolios or bank statements. We were just all friends based on who we were.

My family is the same. We have family members who barely make it by month to month and we have family who live comfortably. We too having been living very comfortably. My dad is the only educated one in his entire family and is a successful family physician and psychiatrist in Canada. He's the only one who has achieved a professional status but this certainly doesn't mean that his siblings didn't work hard. Everyone has their own triumphs and struggles and we have never looked down on anybody in our family because of financial status or because of a lack of education. We visit our families in India who live in rural villages and we never see them as inferior to us. We LOVE seeing them and being with them for they are far away and are loving, caring people. Don't care how they live or what they do for a living. If anyone has friends that do this, they need to go and find new friends.

The cost of living in England is MUCH, higher than here in Canada. That's why they keep trying to immigrate here with their families. The same articles of clothing, electronics, groceries that we get here, are ALMOST double over there. Also, the last time I checked, their min. wage was Ł5.50. The odd person may try to argue that 5.50 converted to Canadian currency will be around $8 but that's an irrelevant fact. That would only be relevant if their goods (Groceries, clothing, electronics) were based on Canadian prices.

I'm glad you had such a positive experience in Europe and that you got to meet people who were down to earth and humble. But the truth is, you don't have to travel to another country to be around people like that.
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Old 02-15-2012, 12:01 AM   #77
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funnily enough, the UK is sort of the opposite. People are evaluated based on the the schools they went to, the type of accent they have (thus telling people where they're from). Kids who come from rich families go to good prep schools, getting them into good universities, getting them good jobs, allowing them to look down at all the chavs on the street.

I think it has to do with the overall education and average wage. In finland, there is a smaller lower-income/less-educated class, therefore a lower discrepancy between rich and poor...

But I definitely agree, travelling around countries like Norway, Finland, Sweden - life is simple (and expensive), but people seem geniunely happy.
I think it's pretty much a fact in Europe that they look at England the same way they (and we) look at Americans... can't really compare the UK with mainland Europe.
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Old 02-15-2012, 05:38 AM   #78
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You're basing that on one experience, and your experience. Doesn't necessarily mean that's the way the world works.

I have friends from all sorts of economic backgrounds. I ended up going to private school in high school and most of my high school friends were driving around in Range Rovers, Benz's and the odd Ferrari. My elementary school friends who weren't so well off mingled with my new high school friends just fine. We never looked at each other based on material assets, stock portfolios or bank statements. We were just all friends based on who we were.

My family is the same. We have family members who barely make it by month to month and we have family who live comfortably. We too having been living very comfortably. My dad is the only educated one in his entire family and is a successful family physician and psychiatrist in Canada. He's the only one who has achieved a professional status but this certainly doesn't mean that his siblings didn't work hard. Everyone has their own triumphs and struggles and we have never looked down on anybody in our family because of financial status or because of a lack of education. We visit our families in India who live in rural villages and we never see them as inferior to us. We LOVE seeing them and being with them for they are far away and are loving, caring people. Don't care how they live or what they do for a living. If anyone has friends that do this, they need to go and find new friends.

The cost of living in England is MUCH, higher than here in Canada. That's why they keep trying to immigrate here with their families. The same articles of clothing, electronics, groceries that we get here, are ALMOST double over there. Also, the last time I checked, their min. wage was Ł5.50. The odd person may try to argue that 5.50 converted to Canadian currency will be around $8 but that's an irrelevant fact. That would only be relevant if their goods (Groceries, clothing, electronics) were based on Canadian prices.

I'm glad you had such a positive experience in Europe and that you got to meet people who were down to earth and humble. But the truth is, you don't have to travel to another country to be around people like that.
I don't know, I can agree with the guy you quoted. I've been living in Germany since early December and before that traveling for 3 months and I totally see what he means. I live in a tiny town, everyone is friendly, easy to meet people, I am living on peanuts (happily too...) and I get to snowboard every day. Sure, it's not going to last forever but nearly all the friends I've met here in Oberstdorf come from other small towns in Germany and they are all completely different in their way of thinking VS. N/A big city folk. It took a while to get used to it but now that I am here I think it's going to be hard to leave.

The same went for almost everyone I met traveling for 3 months even in the bigger cities. People just seem to be happier here. I traveled in England as well, and it's nothing even close to the same as Italy, Spain, France, Germany, Austria, Czk etc. Yes, things are more and min wage is less there (UK). But to put it in perspective, I work 15 hours a week for 10eur/hour at a bar. Plus tips. I take home over 800eur a month. Rent is 300, the rest is MORE than enough for food, entertainment, beer, cell phone etc. And that's working 3 days a week for 5 hours. I COULD work more if I wanted to and likely will in the summer.

The transit system is great, cars are cheap as is insurance (gas is the pricy part but everything is so close, to people here 30kms is "too far"). I can be in Munich in 2 hours, Prauge in 3, Innsbruck in 1.5, Berlin in 4, Paris in 6, Milan in 3 hours by car etc. If I didn't have to go home when my visa expires theres a good chance I would prob. never leave.
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Old 02-15-2012, 06:21 AM   #79
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You're basing that on one experience, and your experience. Doesn't necessarily mean that's the way the world works.

I have friends from all sorts of economic backgrounds. I ended up going to private school in high school and most of my high school friends were driving around in Range Rovers, Benz's and the odd Ferrari. My elementary school friends who weren't so well off mingled with my new high school friends just fine. We never looked at each other based on material assets, stock portfolios or bank statements. We were just all friends based on who we were.

My family is the same. We have family members who barely make it by month to month and we have family who live comfortably. We too having been living very comfortably. My dad is the only educated one in his entire family and is a successful family physician and psychiatrist in Canada. He's the only one who has achieved a professional status but this certainly doesn't mean that his siblings didn't work hard. Everyone has their own triumphs and struggles and we have never looked down on anybody in our family because of financial status or because of a lack of education. We visit our families in India who live in rural villages and we never see them as inferior to us. We LOVE seeing them and being with them for they are far away and are loving, caring people. Don't care how they live or what they do for a living. If anyone has friends that do this, they need to go and find new friends.

The cost of living in England is MUCH, higher than here in Canada. That's why they keep trying to immigrate here with their families. The same articles of clothing, electronics, groceries that we get here, are ALMOST double over there. Also, the last time I checked, their min. wage was Ł5.50. The odd person may try to argue that 5.50 converted to Canadian currency will be around $8 but that's an irrelevant fact. That would only be relevant if their goods (Groceries, clothing, electronics) were based on Canadian prices.

I'm glad you had such a positive experience in Europe and that you got to meet people who were down to earth and humble. But the truth is, you don't have to travel to another country to be around people like that.
I'd say your situation experiencing that kind of thing here is the exception not the rule in the western world as opposed to Europe

I spent enough time and met enough people to believe it was the general attitude amongst basically everyone I met, where as here it would be the rare cases to find that type of attitude not the norm
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Old 02-15-2012, 06:55 AM   #80
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Kinda explains the women minus the pretty part
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Well, that's because Vancouver really does nothing but be pretty. We aren't a financial center. We aren't a hub for head offices. Manufacturing is small. Resources? Shipping and logistics is pretty big. We're a center for foreign trade, but other than that, I can't really tell you where the money comes from in Vancouver off the top of my head.

So if we're not bringing in huge money, then how can it be paid out?

I'm talking on the macro level here...outside money into the city. Not trading it among ourselves.
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Old 02-15-2012, 07:04 AM   #81
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So how friendly would they be if you wern't white and didn't speak the langauge.
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while i was travelling through Europe i came to that realization, specifically in places where i indirectly knew people such as Finland etc. I would meet absolutely gorgeous girls who back in Vancouver would be the biggest stuck up cunts in the world, There they could not be nicer and more accommodating, and this literally went for -everyone- i met
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Old 02-15-2012, 07:40 AM   #82
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So how friendly would they be if you wern't white and didn't speak the langauge.


Can't tell if this is a real question, or just race baiting.
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Old 02-15-2012, 08:39 AM   #83
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I think its a legit question. When I think, "where in the world is there the most racial harmony?", Europe doesn't jump to mind...
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Old 02-15-2012, 08:50 AM   #84
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I think it's pretty much a fact in Europe that they look at England the same way they (and we) look at Americans... can't really compare the UK with mainland Europe.
But the examples that were used in Mainland Europe only really applies to the more economically successful countries. The same doesn't apply to Spain, Portugal, Italy... Hell, even France isn't nowhere as friendly as Germany...
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Old 02-15-2012, 09:17 AM   #85
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^ When I visited Paris 6 years ago (before the Euro Zone went belly up), people seemed miserable. I spent a couple of days with a friend who was going to SciencesPo at the time and she mentioned that living in Paris is quite stressful (low pay and high expectations.) I didn't visit the banlieus, but we all know how bad they are.

It's easy for people to complain about the lower salaries and cost of living here, but ultimately, you're respnsible for your own lives and the choices you make. I've met a lot of women who are successful and many of these women went into health care. What stopped you from going into health care? Similarly, people bitch about work in the public sector. Again, nothing is stopping you from applying.
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Old 02-15-2012, 09:38 AM   #86
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So how friendly would they be if you wern't white and didn't speak the langauge.
Only language I speak is English

And although I am white, even in Finland seeing Asians was fairly normal and in Russia the diversity of being a "Russian" could mean you could look Asian or even Indian the country reaches so far in every direction
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Old 02-15-2012, 11:07 AM   #87
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And quite honestly, I really don't want Europe to be a model for our society AT ALL. People are always looking at Europe as being this great model...5 weeks vacation and this paid for and that paid for and all this great stuff.

Great. When the economy is cooking and you can pay for it, but as soon as the economy slows down, and people are no longer working at these jobs and paying their 40%-50% taxes then it all comes crumbling down.

I will fight hard for a Canada that stays a little more inclusive than the states, and way less socialist than Europe.

Let's call it, "Capitalist with a Conscience"
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Old 02-15-2012, 11:52 AM   #88
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And quite honestly, I really don't want Europe to be a model for our society AT ALL. People are always looking at Europe as being this great model...5 weeks vacation and this paid for and that paid for and all this great stuff.

Great. When the economy is cooking and you can pay for it, but as soon as the economy slows down, and people are no longer working at these jobs and paying their 40%-50% taxes then it all comes crumbling down.

I will fight hard for a Canada that stays a little more inclusive than the states, and way less socialist than Europe.

Let's call it, "Capitalist with a Conscience"
Economically Europe is not a good model as they've fucked themselves with the Euro. That being said don't take Greece and France's models that perpetuate laziness as the norm over there. Socially though, Europe is the best place on Earth as far as I'm concerned.

As for the OP, it's pretty sad that I have to be subsidized by my parents at times as well and I make more than double minimum wage and work more than 40hrs a week. I think if the bubble pops in Vancouver as it did in the US you would find a LOT of people in the same demographic moving back home. Vancouver is full of 'fake rich' people who don't have any real savings, equity, or assets that they truly own. If the credit dried up they'd have nothing.

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Old 02-15-2012, 12:04 PM   #89
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Economically Europe is not a good model as they've fucked themselves with the Euro. That being said don't take Greece and France's models that perpetuate laziness as the norm over there. Socially though, Europe is the best place on Earth as far as I'm concerned.
you can't have one without the other. Those countries with the cheap/free tuition, etc - aren't funded by dreams, they're funded by the high taxes.

Europe is being held afloat by a few strong economies (mainly Germany). To give a blanket statement like, "Europe is the best" is definitely false. It should be "Germany is awesome, and the rest of Europe is great for visitors as long as you're not living or working there."
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Old 02-15-2012, 12:21 PM   #90
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you can't have one without the other. Those countries with the cheap/free tuition, etc - aren't funded by dreams, they're funded by the high taxes.
If you're referring to Scandinavia then yes, you're right, the taxes are high. However the standard of living is some of the highest in the world and the people are generally happy no matter how much wealth they have. Everyone takes care of eachother and lives within their means. Norway for example has it's largest oil company kicking back it's profits into the country and making it more prosperous for everyone, not just the companies CEO's. It's such a polar opposite to North Americans materialistic, capitalist thinking that people here can't comprehend living like that. Kinda sad when you think about it.
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Old 02-15-2012, 12:46 PM   #91
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Ya, Norway's oil is controlled by it's gov't, as opposed to Oil companies. That will never happen here though. They were also smart not to join the EU - but it's also because they know they're such a rich country with all their oil that they don't need to be dragged down by the rest of Europe.

I met a girl on the train from Oslo to Stavanger; she works at a chicken packaging plant - she probably makes more than most people on RS.


That said, Norway is not a good representation of Europe.
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Old 02-15-2012, 01:24 PM   #92
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And quite honestly, I really don't want Europe to be a model for our society AT ALL. People are always looking at Europe as being this great model...5 weeks vacation and this paid for and that paid for and all this great stuff.

Great. When the economy is cooking and you can pay for it, but as soon as the economy slows down, and people are no longer working at these jobs and paying their 40%-50% taxes then it all comes crumbling down.

I will fight hard for a Canada that stays a little more inclusive than the states, and way less socialist than Europe.

Let's call it, "Capitalist with a Conscience"
Oh yeahhh! 5 Weeks vacation is soooo baddddd! I don't even know why people bring that shit up, you can get 5 weeks vacation in Canada, if you don't work for a shitty company. The difference with North Americans, is they chose not to take their vacation. Gotta keep working to get more money to buy more shit!
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Old 02-15-2012, 03:16 PM   #93
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Economically Europe is not a good model as they've fucked themselves with the Euro. That being said don't take Greece and France's models that perpetuate laziness as the norm over there. Socially though, Europe is the best place on Earth as far as I'm concerned.

As for the OP, it's pretty sad that I have to be subsidized by my parents at times as well and I make more than double minimum wage and work more than 40hrs a week. I think if the bubble pops in Vancouver as it did in the US you would find a LOT of people in the same demographic moving back home. Vancouver is full of 'fake rich' people who don't have any real savings, equity, or assets that they truly own. If the credit dried up they'd have nothing.
+1 on the fake rich people who have no idea what saving money even means. I know someone who graduated from ubc and was unemployed for damn near half a year because apparently making 0 dollars was better than "stooping down" to min wage level, but all the while spending like money ain't a thang.
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Old 02-15-2012, 03:19 PM   #94
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fuck my shitty job even offers 5 week vacation. and it's a warehouse job too.

granted im misreable there and everyday i want to off myself.
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Old 02-16-2012, 06:16 AM   #95
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So how friendly would they be if you wern't white and didn't speak the langauge.
I am white, but in now way speak anything other than English. It's only the last few months my German has started to get better.

And as for "racial harmony'' it's acutally (from my view)
ok here. There is a big mix of races everywhere you go. It's England and the UK that have big race issues.
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Old 02-16-2012, 07:23 AM   #96
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Lots of asians in Finland??

Tourists

I went to Estonia (across the water) and though it's small and obviously not as populated as Finland, saw like 5 asian people, afew black people, and no Hispanics..

Blonde hair/blue eyes prevailed there...
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Old 02-16-2012, 07:34 AM   #97
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^ I didn't say there were lots lol

And yea, estonia felt alot more of the eastern European city than Finland did, did u go to thalin?
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Old 02-16-2012, 08:58 AM   #98
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it almost seems like having Racial diversification is a bad thing in a country.

you go to any country that is mostly 1 race dominated, and shit works and gets done, because everyone has the same beliefs and work ethics and status.

but when you come here or in the US,

all the races segregate themsevles in their own cities anyway, but each of them have different beliefs and ways of making livings ect..

so you get the china mainlanders buying up all expensive property, raising realestate, and not contributing to the work force. Their method of living is very "classial" your either at the top, or at the bottom slaving, like in China, Their kids are raised to also have the same beliefs. Hence the asian guys in high school with 80k cars, and think they are above the other races, and who have never worked a day in their life.

then you get the indians in surrey, who work hard, work together, and they STICK together, they will try and fuck over every other race they can to get an extra dollar, they can not be negotiated with unless your brown too, but eventhough they charge more to other races, they are still cheaper than everyone else and own a lot of franchises and business around the lower mainland, thus taking jobs away from everyone else, when there is a brown owner/manager at a place, only brown employee's will follow.

Then you have the white folk, who work moderatly, not hard enough to break a sweat, but expect a high wage or atleast a wage that they can live happily and sustainable. Cant afford nice things because they dont want to work hard, but feel entitled because they were here first, thus segregate themselves to abby / maple ridge, because housing is affordable and trades are in abbundance out there, hence unions are vastly white people who are just trying to protect themselves in the job market.

but what happens when you try to mash these 3 different lifestyles and beliefs of living in one city? shit gets fucked up, fast, instead of understanding eachother and coming together as one society, we all seperate ourselves in each city and try to compete, just like countries do, I guess its what we do as human nature, we compete.

Fucking over the economy, jobs, realestate, wages, tuition, debt, everything.

Go to germany, australia, china, india, italy, poland ect..

mostly 1 race dominated, but shit gets done over there.
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I will be starting my internship in April in Linz Austria, granted I have never worked in Europe yet, only studied, but I can tell you it is a completely different approach to the workplace.
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Old 02-16-2012, 11:03 AM   #100
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Go to germany, australia, china, india, italy, poland ect..

mostly 1 race dominated, but shit gets done over there.
I understand what you're trying to say you just used a couple bad examples here. Germany has a very strong economy (that has been brought down by the Euro), but have had massive immigration problems post WWII. Turks flooded into the country and have caused a lot of issues. Italy's economy has always been relatively weak, and from a business standpoint they are a nightmare and some of the laziest people I have had to deal with. China and India are economic powerhouses because of huge slave labour work forces and no regulation. They get it done on paper but not ethically, environmentally, etc.

Australia is a pretty closed society that does well on it's own. One of my favourite countries, if I go back there for a fourth time I don't think I'll leave.
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