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Old 07-07-2012, 07:16 PM   #1651
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Panthers Bjugstad rejects initial contract offer to turn pro according to source;

Florida Panthers ‏@FlaPanthers
Bjugstad on making decision of whether he'll return to U of M: Probably won't be too long. Probably next week. Need to sit down with family
Out of all the prospects, you would think Bjugstad would be the one to be traded with the possibility of him returning to college.
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Old 07-07-2012, 08:27 PM   #1652
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The players aren't producing and line juggling isn't working.

Therefore we can automatically conclude the team is SOL regardless of whatever the coach does?
What else can the coach do? We've already established that he can't play for them... You want him to create a new "system" that will suddenly work for them? When drop pass doesn't work, dump and chase. What else is there?

It's the players that suck, not the coaches. I don't think many people here have an idea of what a coach does...
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Old 07-07-2012, 08:46 PM   #1653
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What else can the coach do? We've already established that he can't play for them... You want him to create a new "system" that will suddenly work for them? When drop pass doesn't work, dump and chase. What else is there?

It's the players that suck, not the coaches. I don't think many people here have an idea of what a coach does...

r u kidding me?

We had the better roster for individual players. We had back to back Art Ross winners and almost back to back league MVPers for our first line.

We had a Selke winning 2nd liner who had probably the best season of his career.

We had an amazing grinder and hitter lines anchored by the likes of Lapierre & Torres.

Boston may have had Zdeno Chara but we had the deepest defensive corps of the league. (You know we're deep when freakin' Salo is a 3rd string defenseman)






The team didn't suck. Not even close to it. Apart from the forgetful 3 games in Chicago, our team was destroying in the playoffs. Hell we even grabbed the first 2 games in the SCF.

That year, any coach would've killed to have all the pieces WE had.
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Old 07-07-2012, 10:09 PM   #1654
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What else can the coach do? We've already established that he can't play for them... You want him to create a new "system" that will suddenly work for them? When drop pass doesn't work, dump and chase. What else is there?

It's the players that suck, not the coaches. I don't think many people here have an idea of what a coach does...
Here's some ideas:

- Get away from match ups that favors the opposition
- Change power play formation/strategies
- Send more bodies to the front of the net
- Play a more defensive style, trap if you have to
- Breakouts with speed through the neutral zone instead of the dump and chase or chip plays

How do you get away from the size game? You counter with speed so these guys will need to clutch and grab to get you. That followed by traffic to the net will generate goals. Note how many open looks from the outside the Canucks had. NHL calibre goalies will eat those pucks up.

You're telling me the 2012 Vancouver Canucks can't change the way they play while a less talented 2006 Oilers squad could?

A coach puts in more work than some of you think. Have you ever played organized hockey in your life? Multiply that by a million since these coaches don't volunteer part-time and actually do this for a living.
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Old 07-07-2012, 11:15 PM   #1655
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Old 07-08-2012, 08:24 AM   #1656
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Old 07-08-2012, 09:02 AM   #1657
 
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hamhuis and rome were gone, kesler injured, malholtra 1 eye, raymond injured. we had no defensive depth wtf is he suppose to do? tell 1 forwards from every line to just play as an extra dman? tell a 4th line center to become a 2nd line center?
they won the first 2 games but in unconvincing fashion, they probably didn't even deserve one if not both of those. you take the risk of switching up the pp and then having costly mistakes made during the game because its a new system. mistakes always happen with new systems they take a while to learn. they couldn't send people to the net, they were getting mugged and the refs not only put their whistle away most of the time they couldnt even find it. shit, think this stuff through first.
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Old 07-08-2012, 09:06 AM   #1658
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hamhuis and rome were gone, kesler injured, malholtra 1 eye, raymond injured. we had no defensive depth wtf is he suppose to do? tell 1 forwards from every line to just play as an extra dman? tell a 4th line center to become a 2nd line center?
they won the first 2 games but in unconvincing fashion, they probably didn't even deserve one if not both of those. you take the risk of switching up the pp and then having costly mistakes made during the game because its a new system. mistakes always happen with new systems they take a while to learn. they couldn't send people to the net, they were getting mugged and the refs not only put their whistle away most of the time they couldnt even find it. shit, think this stuff through first.
I didn't want to continue this, but you made a good post.

The truth is, we will go through this same thing every year, the same way every other team in the world does until they win it all. If you don't win the cup, your coach is a useless bum, and "should have" done all these brilliant ideas like

he should have sent more bodies to the net

trap if you have to

counter with speed

It's that shit that belongs on CDC forums and drunken calls to the post game radio show. It just makes me go
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Old 07-08-2012, 09:09 AM   #1659
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Old 07-08-2012, 10:50 AM   #1660
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Originally Posted by mickz View Post
Here's some ideas:

- Get away from match ups that favors the opposition
- Change power play formation/strategies
- Send more bodies to the front of the net
- Play a more defensive style, trap if you have to
- Breakouts with speed through the neutral zone instead of the dump and chase or chip plays

How do you get away from the size game? You counter with speed so these guys will need to clutch and grab to get you. That followed by traffic to the net will generate goals. Note how many open looks from the outside the Canucks had. NHL calibre goalies will eat those pucks up.

You're telling me the 2012 Vancouver Canucks can't change the way they play while a less talented 2006 Oilers squad could?

A coach puts in more work than some of you think. Have you ever played organized hockey in your life? Multiply that by a million since these coaches don't volunteer part-time and actually do this for a living.
I don't see why this post is getting failed - a lot of what he's saying makes sense. Many of the same problems from the Boston series carried over into the LA series this year. Our powerplay wasn't clicking, physical play was a problem and their goalie just stood on their head.

Our power play did need changing as it wasn't working at all. The umbrella was simply not functioning and an overload would have worked well as it would allow for pucks to get to the net while bodies were there. We didn't shoot enough on Quick, which was a HUGE problem in my opinion.

If you go back and watch the LA games, the Canucks were doing the dump and chase the whole series and LA knew that. Quick would simply stop the puck behind the net and play it to their dman, resulting in a pointless change of possession. A 5 man, speed breakout would have been so much better but AV simply did not adapt to the situation.

The only thing I disagree with is the trap - whenever the Canucks trap it doesn't seem to end well.

Although a lot of the blame can be put on the players, the coach also deserves some for not adapting and making a change when the systems in place clearly weren't working. Yes, he started Schneider but that was too little too late. Part of being a good coach is being in a reactive position and making changes to counter the opponent.
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Old 07-08-2012, 10:50 AM   #1661
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Originally Posted by dbaz View Post
hamhuis and rome were gone, kesler injured, malholtra 1 eye, raymond injured. we had no defensive depth wtf is he suppose to do? tell 1 forwards from every line to just play as an extra dman? tell a 4th line center to become a 2nd line center?
they won the first 2 games but in unconvincing fashion, they probably didn't even deserve one if not both of those. you take the risk of switching up the pp and then having costly mistakes made during the game because its a new system. mistakes always happen with new systems they take a while to learn. they couldn't send people to the net, they were getting mugged and the refs not only put their whistle away most of the time they couldnt even find it. shit, think this stuff through first.


Typical Canuck excuses. I SERIOUSLY see this every year. Do you think every SCF winner wins because they somehow miraculously last 4 rounds healthy?

Do you think Boston did not battle their own fair share of declared and undeclared injuries?

Are Canuck fans really that stupid that they think the playoff-injury-bug is only specific to us?



Boston would've loved to have Horton the entire series. They would've loved to still have Savard on their roster (Yes! Boston is still a bit bitter about his early retirement). And those are only the ones that we publically knew. I'm sure just like us, they too had their fair share of undisclosed injuries and if you believe otherwise, well that's just dumb. Playing three 7 game series will do that. In fact, apart from Chicago, we're the team that had the easier SCF route if we hadn't just almost pissed our series away with Chicago.



So there, now that I've shot the... "injuries" card. What excuse would you guys like to play next?

Reffing?

Bettman?

or how about the anti-Canadian NHL conspiracy?




Let's keep this going because in the words of Jonathan Toews, I can "expose you all for what you are."
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Old 07-08-2012, 11:19 AM   #1662
 
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its well known the whistle goes away in the playoffs. its also a well known that by the end of the finals our 2nd line was basically unable to play. yea boston had injuries too every team gets them in the playoffs but the key guys got hurt. if you are gonna talk about those who have typical canuck responses look at your own(there's always two sides to something). if you are gonna blame vig. for it solely that's stupid. might as well blame the players for getting hurt and gillis for not having made a team deep enough to deal with injuries. its a collection of faults not just the coach or players.
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Old 07-08-2012, 11:41 AM   #1663
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On the road again this week. Heading to vegas for a very important dinner on monday night.
Florida Panthers president. Lu is also in Vegas, coincidence?
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Old 07-08-2012, 12:08 PM   #1664
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I think a lot of people are understating how good both Boston and LA are. They had lines rolling and the team got hot at the right time. They had a little puck luck and goaltending to go with it.

Both Boston and LA had a defenceman to step it up and led their team. Honestly, the Canucks' cup run, I can only remember Bieksa doing most of it. Hamhuis as well. But as for Ehrhoff and Edler? I don't remember shit. What happened to the Edler that nailed Doughty?
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Old 07-08-2012, 12:35 PM   #1665
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Florida Panthers president. Lu is also in Vegas, coincidence?
whatever happens in vegas, stays in vegas...
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Old 07-08-2012, 02:21 PM   #1666
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Originally Posted by dbaz View Post
hamhuis and rome were gone, kesler injured, malholtra 1 eye, raymond injured. we had no defensive depth wtf is he suppose to do? tell 1 forwards from every line to just play as an extra dman? tell a 4th line center to become a 2nd line center?
they won the first 2 games but in unconvincing fashion, they probably didn't even deserve one if not both of those. you take the risk of switching up the pp and then having costly mistakes made during the game because its a new system. mistakes always happen with new systems they take a while to learn. they couldn't send people to the net, they were getting mugged and the refs not only put their whistle away most of the time they couldnt even find it. shit, think this stuff through first.
Send people to the net to draw traffic and pay a price while doing it. I never said do it to get a call. You're not going to score on any NHL goaltender shooting from 20 feet out and giving him clean looks.

Quote:
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I didn't want to continue this, but you made a good post.

The truth is, we will go through this same thing every year, the same way every other team in the world does until they win it all. If you don't win the cup, your coach is a useless bum, and "should have" done all these brilliant ideas like

he should have sent more bodies to the net

trap if you have to

counter with speed

It's that shit that belongs on CDC forums and drunken calls to the post game radio show. It just makes me go
Still haven't answered me yet. Have you ever played organized hockey in your life? You make a coach sound useless once his players stop playing.
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Old 07-08-2012, 03:12 PM   #1667
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Lu doesn't look so happy
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Old 07-08-2012, 03:14 PM   #1668
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Send people to the net to draw traffic and pay a price while doing it. I never said do it to get a call. You're not going to score on any NHL goaltender shooting from 20 feet out and giving him clean looks.



Still haven't answered me yet. Have you ever played organized hockey in your life? You make a coach sound useless once his players stop playing.
^Judging my SP's posts ITT, it's pretty obvious he hasn't played organized hockey before. BTW, this isn't a personal shot at you, SP...but reading some of your posts in these threads, I could tell you don't play hockey.
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Old 07-08-2012, 03:31 PM   #1669
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@TSNBobMcKenzie Hearing Luongo to Tampa is done and details being ironed out, more to come
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Old 07-08-2012, 03:32 PM   #1670
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its well known the whistle goes away in the playoffs. its also a well known that by the end of the finals our 2nd line was basically unable to play. yea boston had injuries too every team gets them in the playoffs but the key guys got hurt. if you are gonna talk about those who have typical canuck responses look at your own(there's always two sides to something). if you are gonna blame vig. for it solely that's stupid. might as well blame the players for getting hurt and gillis for not having made a team deep enough to deal with injuries. its a collection of faults not just the coach or players.
Horton was not a key player? How about Savard? We had 2 key guys out officially in Erhoff and Hammer. I won't even count Raymond as I think he want down way later, like game 6 or 7; and even then he's not that huge of a cog in the wheel that would excuse the derailment of the whole team.

So now what? Let's go to the latent injuries that ALL players play through. Like what? Malhotra's bad eye? The guy that plays basement minutes on the regular season alone?

Or how about Kesler's bum leg? The only guy that when Alaign Vigneault's system was failing, was the ONLY guy that was trying to bang his head through a wall trying to break down the Boston wall of defense?

Side note:
(When you see an injured guy trying to pick up the puck in his own zone (Kesler) and trying to skate it into the offensive zone by himself at the risk of getting pummelled by the Boston's defensive gauntlet, you know some players have lost faith into the drop-pass break out system.)


So no. Injuries are not an excuse on many levels:

1) Both teams share their fair share attrition through the playoffs. There's no exceptions. Although injuries may vary, it's up to the team to compensate, and up to the coach to adjust their approach .

2) Despite the injuries I'm sure both sides suffer, it's clear they wanted, and were playing through it. So for a coach (or the fanbase) to divert blame saying we were unfortunate, or that we didn't have a good team, or we didn't have great players? Well, buy into it if that helps you cope with having a Championship stolen under you.



And to address your entire argument. No, I don't solely blame AV. It is well documented here that I highly blame Luongo for his part as well. It's just that I'm saying AV and his lack of adaptation is a big contributor as well.
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Old 07-08-2012, 03:39 PM   #1671
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In fact, I don't know what I'm tired of the most in the fanbase. The "bandwagon" arguments between fans, or the "if only we weren't injured" excuse.
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Old 07-08-2012, 04:04 PM   #1672
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Injuries are a major variable in the playoffs, I'd love to see key guys sit out more games as the post-season rolls around just to increase a bit of mileage in their already drained tank. The President's trophy is a joke, no one cares about it, there's only one trophy all hockey players aspire to win.
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Old 07-08-2012, 04:08 PM   #1673
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can we just stop talking about 2010-2011? it brings back so many bad memories of the finals :/

i appreciate what our team did for us that year and hope that next season we can get ourselves back into a position to once more to take a crack at our 1st cup.
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Old 07-08-2012, 04:21 PM   #1674
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@TSNBobMcKenzie Hearing Luongo to Tampa is done and details being ironed out, more to come
I dont see that anywhere
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Old 07-08-2012, 04:40 PM   #1675
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lol I'm not really good with twitter, but doesn't that just mean someone tweeted that message at Bob Mckenzie "Hearing luongo to tampa is done" lol
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