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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
my parents lack of foresight and led them to buy a brand new apartment in 1994 instead of buying a slightly used Vancouver special / older home that was the same price. Their apartment is worth 900k now, but a equivalent house in the neighborhood is 1.6-1.8m aka double.
Pisses me off that my mom valued saving face more than having more space/land. Their condo cost them quite a bit over the years with their leaky condo at 60k, special levies, elevators, etc etc. All because she couldnt stomach living in an old house. That shanghainese ego of her is bullshit.
And now the perception some will have of ever buying that place given it was a leaky condo (albeit usually unfounded)
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I agree with him on the TO observation. 90%+ of the professionals in TO I know are clearing $100 - 300k+, with even higher earnings when they hit their 30's. Even the folks that are doing hair / nails are clearing low 100's with a little bit of cash on the side.
While in Vancouver the majority of folks clearing $120K+ are business owners, medical field, CPA/CFA's, bankers, software devs at Amazon, most red seal jobs. I'm surprised by the vast amount of people on the lower end of $60 - 110K in engineering, boutique consulting, software developers at small places, IT, manager+ level at marketing, tech sales, recruiting. Especially since a lot of these jobs were glorified when I was in Uni. But most people native to Vancouver also has 1+ properties from their parents giving them an extra $1-2.5k/month in spending money
I agree that Toronto people work harder, longer hours and make higher incomes overall.
However, there are many people in Vancouver who easily clear 120K and are not your typical medical professional, SWE, or business owner. Perhaps it's a function of age as when you hit your 40s, it becomes more prevalent.
my parents lack of foresight and led them to buy a brand new apartment in 1994 instead of buying a slightly used Vancouver special / older home that was the same price. Their apartment is worth 900k now, but a equivalent house in the neighborhood is 1.6-1.8m aka double.
Pisses me off that my mom valued saving face more than having more space/land. Their condo cost them quite a bit over the years with their leaky condo at 60k, special levies, elevators, etc etc. All because she couldnt stomach living in an old house. That shanghainese ego of her is bullshit.
The house I grew up in, Broadway/Nanaimo area, had our neighbor (elderly widowed wife) selling. She offered to sell it to us for $250k. My mom ran to the bank, had approval as a rental property but my dad refused to sign the papers. He kept saying we didn't need it, what do we need all this land for. My mom told him, rent it out till one of us kids can move in, in the future. He never signed it.
Just a couple years ago, 1 of our old neighbors ran into my sister and told her our old house was part of a land assembly. The house next door that we could've bought was also part of it. All these years, my mom would see house values increase would smack my dad as a stark reminder what could've been.
Some of our parents, mine included (specifically my dad) never saw the big picture and the lucky ones who did are reaping the benefits now.
The house I grew up in, Broadway/Nanaimo area, had our neighbor (elderly widowed wife) selling. She offered to sell it to us for $250k. My mom ran to the bank, had approval as a rental property but my dad refused to sign the papers. He kept saying we didn't need it, what do we need all this land for. My mom told him, rent it out till one of us kids can move in, in the future. He never signed it.
Just a couple years ago, 1 of our old neighbors ran into my sister and told her our old house was part of a land assembly. The house next door that we could've bought was also part of it. All these years, my mom would see house values increase would smack my dad as a stark reminder what could've been.
Some of our parents, mine included never saw the big picture and the lucky ones who did are reaping the benefits now.
I feel like “normal” people never saw or anticipated housing being commodified as it has been
I have a few friends who have very wealthy older (80+) family members or step parents etc. and those people seemingly did see the potential as many owned many properties or always leveraged up to the most expensive house they could possibly afford at the time and that’s still the advice they give today
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I agree that Toronto people work harder, longer hours and make higher incomes overall.
However, there are many people in Vancouver who easily clear 120K and are not your typical medical professional, SWE, or business owner. Perhaps it's a function of age as when you hit your 40s, it becomes more prevalent.
Yeah, I think every industry / role hits the upper end when you're in your 40's. But what do you do in your 20's - 30's when 1BR's costs $2-2.5K. Can't wait till ya make $120K at 40 to move out or buy 1 BR. By then the girls want ya to have a TH or 3BR+.
I'm not sure how I feel about this huge divide between those were able to move out vs stuck at home.
I feel like “normal” people never saw or anticipated housing being commodified as it has been
I have a few friends who have very wealthy older (80+) family members or step parents etc. and those people seemingly did see the potential as many owned many properties or always leveraged up to the most expensive house they could possibly afford at the time and that’s still the advice they give today
Real estate has always been commodified. Almost every wealthy individual has stemmed from real estate. Some have continued that path and some moved on. Real estate has always been an investment vehicle, buy a house, pay off mortgage and that turns into your retirement fund. What's abnormal as we all see, is flipping houses without lifting a finger. Flipping has always been buy a dump, reno it and sell it a year or so later. That's real flipping. Not how we see it here. But you're correct, "normal" people will never see that picture and hence will live a "normal" life. As life goes on, "normal" will get left behind
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Originally Posted by westopher
And those are the people that the government should have bent over a table 30-40 years ago and we wouldn't be in this fuckin mess.
You're also correct in a sense that the government should've stepped in, with all this BS laws they just implemented, ie Foreign Buyer Ban/Anti-flipping law, they're about 10 years too late. However, say as we may, this country has always relied on immigration and foreign money and will continue to do so.
The house I grew up in, Broadway/Nanaimo area, had our neighbor (elderly widowed wife) selling. She offered to sell it to us for $250k. My mom ran to the bank, had approval as a rental property but my dad refused to sign the papers. He kept saying we didn't need it, what do we need all this land for. My mom told him, rent it out till one of us kids can move in, in the future. He never signed it.
Just a couple years ago, 1 of our old neighbors ran into my sister and told her our old house was part of a land assembly. The house next door that we could've bought was also part of it. All these years, my mom would see house values increase would smack my dad as a stark reminder what could've been.
Some of our parents, mine included (specifically my dad) never saw the big picture and the lucky ones who did are reaping the benefits now.
My wife is going through those emotions right now as her mom wanted to buy a house in the Killarney area for 500k back in the 2000's. A friend was moving and selling to them. Her dad refused. We would be mortgage free right now if they did, instead we have a back breaking monthly payment instead.
It's all about balance and quality of life. I'd take a pay cut to live and work here in Vancouver any day and all day - nearby the ocean, mountains, leisure pace, family oriented, 10x better climate, RS. They can drive in snow, 16 lane hwys, hot AF in the summer, go go go pace life, stupid 2x taxes on their restaurants ... and the annual letdown of the Leafs.
Lol my parents: (a) turned down the opportunity to buy cabins in Whistler village back when it was cheap cheap (and the Sea-to-Sky was truly treacherous); (b) came about this close to buying an extra condo in Yaletown in 2001 when they were about $300K on Beach Crescent for a 1300 sq ft unit - they did end up buying one unit, which is now worth about $1.5M.
But hey I don't hold it against them. I might've made the same choices. They've done very well for themselves already. They were immigrants --> saved like crazy --> saw 18% interest rates in the 80's --> as a result are relatively fiscally conservative. Plus it easily could've gone the other way.
I do have a friend whose parents flipped and sold their house every 1-2 years through middle school and HS in the 00's. Built enough equity to finally build their forever home 6-7 years ago and retire in their 40's with those capital gains free earnings.
The house I grew up in, Broadway/Nanaimo area, had our neighbor (elderly widowed wife) selling. She offered to sell it to us for $250k. My mom ran to the bank, had approval as a rental property but my dad refused to sign the papers. He kept saying we didn't need it, what do we need all this land for. My mom told him, rent it out till one of us kids can move in, in the future. He never signed it.
Just a couple years ago, 1 of our old neighbors ran into my sister and told her our old house was part of a land assembly. The house next door that we could've bought was also part of it. All these years, my mom would see house values increase would smack my dad as a stark reminder what could've been.
Some of our parents, mine included (specifically my dad) never saw the big picture and the lucky ones who did are reaping the benefits now.
Literally my parents. Cept my mom was able to convince my dad to buy a second house @ $360k, but he only kept it for 2 years and pocketed a sweet 80k (at the time). That house is now worth 1.7m land value alone lol.
After my father passed, my mom took the money he left and bought another house asap for 1.2m lol. House now worth 1.7...
Sounds like our immigrant dads fucked our futures up lol. Could've had 5 houses by now lol.
West side house when they first came to Vancouver. Then downsized to an East Side house in Fraserview. Then a condo at Joyce. Now a condo at Metrotown lol.
I agree that Toronto people work harder, longer hours and make higher incomes overall.
However, there are many people in Vancouver who easily clear 120K and are not your typical medical professional, SWE, or business owner. Perhaps it's a function of age as when you hit your 40s, it becomes more prevalent.
Yeah I was slightly exaggerating about $100K ceiling; maybe it's more like $120K.
I'm in my early 30s and from what I can gather, most people I know in Toronto in my age group are at about $175-200K. Whenever I head back to Vancouver, everyone I know (I did my undergrad in Business) is in like the $90-120K range and it seems difficult to break past $120K in your typical corporate office job in Vancouver.
One of my friend's parents somehow
- Moved from Edmonton to Vancouver in the 80's, negative on their house in Edmonton
- Moved back from Vancouver to Calgary in the early 00's, even on the house but just missing the big surge in the mid/late 00's
- Moved back to Vancouver from Calgary in the 2010's, negative again on the Calgary home
Yeah I was slightly exaggerating about $100K ceiling; maybe it's more like $120K.
I'm in my early 30s and from what I can gather, most people I know in Toronto in my age group are at about $175-200K. Whenever I head back to Vancouver, everyone I know (I did my undergrad in Business) is in like the $90-120K range and it seems difficult to break past $120K in your typical corporate office job in Vancouver.
Seems industry dependent, but as someone who alternates work between Van/Toronto, I agree on average the compensation particularly for the upper quartile of earners is probably higher in Toronto. It's more dramatic depending on your industry. Finance, accounting, business, law, consulting all have higher ceilings in Toronto from what I understand, enough that many of my friends made the move (even temporarily) to further their careers.
It's all about balance and quality of life. I'd take a pay cut to live and work here in Vancouver any day and all day - nearby the ocean, mountains, leisure pace, family oriented, 10x better climate, RS. They can drive in snow, 16 lane hwys, hot AF in the summer, go go go pace life, stupid 2x taxes on their restaurants ... and the annual letdown of the Leafs.
Different strokes.
I vastly prefer city life, night life, fine dining, socializing, etc. over nature. I'm also pretty career-oriented so it fits my lifestyle. I still think Vancouver is a much nicer city, cleaner, and a little bit better planned... I'd love to move back to be closer to my parents as they get older but I'm at like... $290K income right now and I still don't think I can afford to live in Vancouver (for the size of property that I would want). If I had to live in like Coquitlam, it's totally not the same to me and frankly, I would rather live in a Toronto suburb, keeping my higher pay, than to take a pay cut and live in Coquitlam, Surrey, New West, etc.
Also, Leafs suck and I noticed pretty much only white people watch hockey in Toronto, lol. I'm a visible minority and so the rest of us watch basketball.
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Even without the cityscape being what it is now, the view from the water has always been gorgeous. I remember as a lad, going on my father's 35 foot wooden commercial fishing boat from Celtic Shipyards at the foot of Blenheim near Musqeum to Stanley Park to fill up on gas from the floating gas stations there, then heading back to moor the boat under the Burrard Bridge. Hundreds of other commercial fishing vessels moored there. This was when the fishing industry was booming. None of this cruise ship nonsense. Very little pleasure craft. No Granville Island anything, too. Talk about slow boat to china. The trip took forever.
Should be in the Vancouver History thread, but whatever.
My father also moored the boat at Steveston (most of the time) and up north - Tofino, Uculet, Campbell River, Prince Rupert, etc. It all depended on openings and what type of gear he decided on using (gill net or trolling). Independent commercial fishing vessel were capable of switching back and forth. My father stored his nets at the net lofts at BC Packers' Paramount Shipyards. Thinking back, it was an amazing life. Out in the waters for months at a time. Anyway...............
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Was in Bamfield last week, stayed on the Port Desire side this year. Gotta appreciate a bit more before it turns into Ucluelet south now that the road is almost done being paved.
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