generational i think. gen x'ers and above dont share that much. *just look at MG1, he thinks everyone's out to steal his hoard*

My inlaws just totalled their car earlier this week. I went to shop for a new car for them and they ended up with a new X1.
The price before fees and taxes was just shy of 50k. It's just shy of 60k all said and done.

You can argue but that's a BMW. A new Rav4 Hybrid is over 45k to start and well in the 50k range out the door, if you can get one that is. That's not counting most people can't be seen in anything less than a Mercedes, plus the inflated price of any EV. Yeah I can see it.

A bit more on the X1 though. It's basically almost the same as our X3, but just in a smaller form factor. I can't believe it's that expensive because our X3 was 53k before taxes and fees, and also right around 60k all said and done. With the higher rates, the X1 is actually significantly more expensive than our X3 is.

fuck 60k for a x1. that used to be the starting price of the x5. lousy inflation.

Should have gotten s Toyota Crown for the next meet so 68style can drool all over it.

Yeah, Xennial here. Parents taught me it's rude to talk about how much you make, etc. Only really with Asian friends does the topic of oh whats the salary range for your new job, how much are you paying for mortgage these days, etc.

Talking with white friends it seems to make them squirm a bit so I don't really broach the subject too far.

The North American construct of "it's rude to talk about money" is literally a brainwashing that only makes those who believe in it worse off. At work, it makes it easy to pay people differently while being open with your coworkers about pay gives everybody collective negotiating power. With your friends, it allows for the exchange of ideas, concepts, and skills that can make people more financially independent.

In Europe it's not at all considered rude to talk money and frankly it's a good idea to be open about it. Doesn't mean you have to start every conversation with "our RRSP balance today is $512,232" but not dancing around income levels etc just makes it easier to be real.

-Mark

Agreed, with coworkers it should definitely be discussed. And BC introduced legislation recently to make it illegal for employers to punish people who talk about it. But with friends? eh if you work in different industries, does it really matter? If you're comfortable, they're comfortable if you know too much it can make things awkward when it comes to sharing expenses.

Reminds me of this

https://youtu.be/i0uFvqlmyok?si=ns2Kz5wyrWUAPkfd

But yes I think it's a North American thing so companies can screw you over and pay women less:ifyouknow::joy:

My Audi friend is arguably my closer friend, but he's exactly like you pointed out.. He's too materialistic. He's not financially stable and he's probably one of the most emotionally unstable friends I have. So you hit the nail on the head with him.

My white knight friend is definitely more my type. Who wouldn't want a partner who was reasonable and logical and makes $150k a year... His only downside is he doesn't own real estate Vancouver lol.

Well, we're Chinese. We talk a lot and we're pretty open to all things.

It's usually only when they bring it up, for example, my Audi friend said he got a promotion and a raise. I would say something like this, "Oh nice, congrats man, how much was the raise" and he went something like, "Yeah it's sweet, I got a $6k raise and i'm a senior now so i'm making like $80k". I would never outright ask how much someone in my friend group is making (especially out of the blue), it's always a roundabout way and we just disclose whatever we want to disclose.

I have no problem asking someone how much their car payment is though, I don't feel like that is a sensitive topic, in fact, I feel like most people like to brag about how much their car payment is for some weird reason. Same with rent, I feel like rent isn't that sensitive. Maybe asking about their mortgage payment might be more sensitive for some people, but I remember we were one of the first to buy a place so all of my friends asked me pretty detailed questions because they were looking to buy a place too and I didn't mind sharing that info with them. ie. how much down we put, what our payments are, what our mortgage rates were, etc.

We always talk about finances, the big one lately is how much everyone's expenses are now, credit card bills, etc.

I'm not sure, I don't bid any of the work there and honestly I'm not to familiar with Kelowna.

Yeah I'm not sure just asking the question, that said there has to be a line at some point for turning a project over on schedule. If these are 1 year + late from what they were sold at time of purchase I'm sure if you could lawyer up and find a way out. What if there 18 months, 24 months late? The expected buyer can't just be expected to wait on moving goal posts, there is consequences to not hitting schedules, especially when it becomes egregious and damages can be proven.

We sign contracts all the time for our work, when we're delayed and it costs us money we go after damages as subcontractors for our increased material and labour costs, why can't the people buying the place?

I fairly recently bought a pre-sale condo in Calgary and I don't know if BC is the same but the contract for the one in Calgary had date protections in it... however, they were very generous... expected completion is late 2024 but the developer is allowed to push it all the way to 2028 before the buyer can have grounds to pull out.

I would imagine BC is pretty much the same?

Wow, that length of time surprises me but it's very possible it probably depends on the contract. I would not sign a contract that gave them a cushion of 4 years past completion date, cross that out.

We're doing a project right now that has a 90K a day penalty clause for each day it's over, that's for the entire project not our portion of work.

Thats healthy man. Im glad you got friends who are open like that and who you can be open with. Especially when it comes to finances. Those are some tricky waters to navigate.

As for your materialistic friend, ive honestly seen too many people go down that road and into a heap of debt with no real gains.

Just like a friend of mine, who really isnt one of those girly girl's but she bought a 15k chanel bag because all her friends are into luxury handbags. We all gave her shit about it. She has a HUGE mortgage *like 7k a month?!?, drives a mazda 3, and is working 4 jobs.

Why on gods earth would you splurge on a lousy handbag if you cant afford it? So sad. Plus i told her blantantly that if you walk out with your 15k chanel bag in that mazda 3, and your Aldo shoes, everyone's gonna think that shit is fake.

Poor girl, she even drove to calgary just to save the tax on that bag. I mean on one hand she can claim they only get more expensive year over year and that its a good investment.... but on the other hand, shaddup you stupid bitch.

Totally.

There are so many upsides for folks to be informed on the opportunities and tradeoffs to achieve whatever financial means it is that's desirable for them. Everyone's life path has exposed them to unique knowledge of how money can be made / saved / invested, and what sacrifices you may or may not have to make - to what extent - to access that. Maybe some of what's generally considered a sacrifice isn't even much of a sacrifice - if at all - for someone personally, because there's good alignment in interest.

Imo, the downsides unfortunately have to do with how secure people feel about themselves. If they're vulnerable to feeling jealousy and lack in their lives as inputs to a self-destructive spiral, then I don't think they are better served.

It's great that in Europe their cultural norms are set up for people to not default to feeling spiteful about others doing better, and rather they get to capitalize on the positive, aspirational aspect.

Among my friends, I find I'm most able to talk about finances in a constructive way with those who are in approximately the same financial situation. The larger the disparity, the more uncomfortable it tends to be, so they'd really have to be close friends that feel more like family (more like a "your success/failure is my success/failure" non-zero-sum kind of mentality) for that to go well.

Talking with coworkers about pay can be beneficial, but it can also go the other way. There are way too many factors for a definite answer.

I personally don't tell others what I make, because A, I'm one of the few people at my company that bark for more money.
Meanwhile others take what they get because they are insecure about asking for more money.
Depending what I make, often times results in others getting larger than normal raises, because management thinks "we are all similar" to a degree once licenced. So why am I putting my neck out there, for everyone's benefit? It's like asking for a woman's number, but everyone gets to ride that pussy. No thanks.

If I tell other workers what I make, they instantly get upset they are getting paid less, and eventually try and squeeze in the same wage. If your company has a "no wage discussion" policy, then this can bite you in the ass as a senior staff member. If I was a new hire, then I would also be asking everyone for their wage for my own benefit.

Furthermore, experience has a large role, someone who has 5 years more experience on the job, than a freshly licenced person, should make more than that person.
Often times people that all have the same licence, get into their own head that their value is the same.

Instead of telling other people what I make, I tell them to ask themselves "what are you worth?, take that number, and prove to management you deserve X dollars."

Now, other people finally start barking for proper raises, and once they get them, in turn, my wage is usually higher on raises as well.

Amongst friends, in different fields of work, I'm open about my wage.
Amongst close friends at work, I'm more open about my wage, but will guide them towards making more instead of simply giving a number.

/rant
/Where's the financial thread at

IIRC here in BC, there is an expected completion date, but there is also another much later date where the developer can hold off on before delivering the unit to the new home owner. The later date is definitely written in the pre-sale purchase contract, so unless that date is due, the buyers really have no recourse because that's literally what they agreed to.

holy F 4 years delay buffer eh... dang..
Thinking back - When people signed paperwork back just 3 years ago.. WTH is trigger rates.. NAH it'lll never happen at TD bank. BAM, we are in it now.

Surely when people bought presale back in 2021.. NAH it won't delay by 4 yrs... usually 6 months... sign here.

I'm a sales guy... that's what i woudl say.. and of course now... it's like STF Door... what do you mean it's 10 yrs buffer LOL

As to raises... people used to demand 5% raise, or 10 %, and like donk said.. why do you think you are worthy 10%... INSTANT KO and they just stay quiet.

"oh, cause interest rates are so high, i need better wage"...errr that's not the company's problem..

Edit - advice taken.

I feel a little hypocritical as I've just talked a big game about openness and transparency and yet openly posting precise figures online for the world was not quite what I had in mind - I'm not really sure that really actually helps anybody.

With that said, I feel like my wife and I are in the "middle class for two employed professionals." My income has a relatively consistent component and a highly variable deal component - we do all of our budgeting based on our 'regular' income. We both have stock matching with our employers and my wife has a fairly significant automatic deduction for her employer matching so that figure includes some If I was to get a bonus, we then would use that for a specific lump sum use - investment account contribution, waste on a watch, buy race car parts, aka nothing my wife approves of.

We have another year of our mortgage being fixed at about 2% and our payment for our detached house is around $3200/month which is manageable, but it will jump up to nearly $5000 next year and we will undoubtedly feel that difference. I am not sure it will dramatically change our life but certainly the monthly 'add to savings account' is going to suffer as it's not exactly like we are going to get a $45k raise year over year to offset.

-Mark

As lowside said above / other threads, not sure if being too open on the internets is a good idea.

I already share way too much on here, and need to limit myself to what I post.

It's not difficult for someone trying to scam you, to get your IP, name, car you drive, income, location, etc, and then have an entire profile on you to use against you.

Especially with AI around the corner, I would not be surprised if there is an entire database somewhere online, with literally my entire RS profile / data / info. No different than Facebook tracking everything you post, then selling your info to marketing companies, etc

Noted. Thanks.

Good call. I think the original spirit of our discussion was around what we disclose offline among friends, which is a relatively closed-loop system of trust and risk containment.

Releasing information online is pretty open-loop and you have little knowledge or control over how that can be used against you.

Agree on AI being the next fundamental shift in how our information will be leveraged against us. The last big leap was in big data (there's a whole academic & career track for working on algorithms to build profiles on people via e.g. what is continuously mined w/ social media, and e.g. selling that to banks for them to make credit risk -> loan pricing decisions on them. and that's a pretty benign example of an application.).

Funny. I was just thinking about a friend of mine. Constant keep up with the joneses. Just picked up a Porsche Cayman S. Always looking like a baller all these years, then the pandemic hit, and he almost lost his house cause he had no incoming income to cover the mortgage. Then I log onto RS to kill 20 mins and I see this post. LOL

At least he has a house, so he kinda won the lottery already