Vancouver's Real Estate Market

[EvoFire]

I started typing a message but I decided to not post it earlier because there just wasn't enough info.

Let me tell a story first. I have a friend that I may have posted about awhile back. His mom forced his hand pretty much and he bought a 1 bedroom condo in Burnaby. He was started dating this Filipino chick who's a care aide. The chick was 38, had zero assets and rented a bedroom with roommates. She spends frivolously, travel all the time, lash appointments every other week, etc etc. On top of that she totalled her Mini Cooper that she was upside down on so she was net negative with nothing to her name but debt.

She needed a new car and with her negative equity, I paraphrase, "I will only drive Audi, BMW, or Mercedes from now on". I told my friend this is not sustainable. What they ended up doing is trading his ND Miata for a M340i to satisfy her wants.

Then they got pregnant. I had a preconceived notion they were gonna be terrible parents.

Kid was born in Feb this year. Consider me surprised when they came over over the summer and she had become a very attentive mom. I haven't heard any complaints from my friend about his partner, if anything he had more complaints about his mom.

So looking on the good side - motherhood may change people. Not only this chick, but a few other women I know who I didn't think would be good mothers, one came out to be fine, and another turned out completely amazing, to the point where I think she's one of the best mothers compared a lot of my friends.

On the bad side - she could very well continue to spend frivolously, not pay down her debts, but actually increase it, and the parental duties end up all on you since she has an unstable schedule.

How you think this would turn out could really only be on you as none of us know your partner.

Now keep in mind, you can survive with a 1 bedroom with 1 child, the above friend is doing just that. There needs to be some compromises but it's not undoable. You can consider whether if you want to take on the bigger mortgage when your partner goes back to work at 12 months.

Now going back to real estate which is what this thread is about. The RE market is not going anywhere in the next two years imo. The economy is not great, there's an over supply of condos due to undesirable units coupled with curtailed immigration. Unless you can sell your place or can manage to score a extremely good deal, there's no hurry.

[Badhobz]

^I guess she did anal?

[BIC_BAWS]

Originally Posted by AstulzerRZD

Also, my sister making 70-90k CAD lives a pretty interesting life, saved 200k and bought a pre-sale 1BR at Richmond Center for 7xxk, carries the whole thing on her own.

This is exactly my point. Hehe used the example of 750K for his commercial property, you guys are saying it's not even possible for most people to achieve this for personal RE. Most people I know make 1.5-2x this range and "can't afford" a place.. I think that's more of a lifestyle issue than income issue.

For easy math and using my own exorbitant car expenses as an example, $57K gross is what you need to live as a bare minimum. Can sub car expenses (15K) for hobbies if car-free.

Rent = $2500/mo = 30,000
Util+Internet = $500/mo = 6000
Groceries = $500/mo = 6000
car insurance = 2000
gas (live far) = 3000
car = 10,000

I don't get how people who are making minimum 6 figures gross, can't afford to save money for a DP. Example proven above and within my own circle of people that make sub $100K.

Originally Posted by Gerbs

We debated whether we truly loved our partner and saw a future with them if we didn't want to
- Pay off their $30-70K Student Loan or CC debt
- Pay for an entire Wedding solo for $30-60K
- Cover a Down Payment of $150-400K solo because they had minimal savings and low income. They'd take 5-7 years to even save $100K, meaning we'll be 35-37 by that time.

210K - 530K solo is fucked. This is all cursed. No shade on your partners but I bet their line is "I have a lifestyle I want to live".

How do you even figure out their finances in the early stages of dating when you're just getting to know them? In your later stages of dating, there's a sunk cost fallacy to be considered.

Originally Posted by Gerbs

Datings never been better if you have it all figured out and marriage makes no sense for most guys.

Can't be me :forever alone:

Originally Posted by Gerbs

So true. One day you're the one they want to marry and they'll do all the things you like. Then a switch happens in her brain and you lose her respect. She will feel as though she hasn't been happy with you for a long time and become snappy at every little thing.

It's way easier to restart than to get someone to respect / like you again once it's gone.

They like to say that they grieve the relationship while being in the relationship and as soon as they decide that it's over, it's over. And immediately jump to next.

...And men are the problem... :eyeroll:

[GS8]

Originally Posted by mikemhg

It's because she turns 38 in December, so she feels like she's "wasting her time" if I'm not on board with kids.

I've never really wanted kids, but I've softened up on the idea over the last while, I'd really be agreeing to it more for her, than myself.

When I've spoken about her spending and how difficult it will be when she's on maternity leave, while going into a new mortgage, without doing the financials ahead of time, show me your plan. She just says "there's never a good time to have kids, you just need to do it".

She's made this idea that she'll work a bunch of OT and pay off her $40K in credit card debt in the span of the next few months, then save a portion of her down payment thereafter.

Recently she's gotten into going to DJ shows, and afterhours, almost like a midlife crisis of sorts. A few days ago she tells me she's going to Contact Festival in December, tickets are $300, while she's already going to some other EDM show the same month at the PNE @ $150 a ticket.

I was gob smacked that she'd think it makes sense to spend money on these shows while staring at that much debt. All I could think of is the arguments we'll have if a kid is in the picture and the real financial issues arise. At least right now our finances are separate, I could care less what she throws her money at.

It just feels like we're not on the same page whatsoever, the kid ultimatum is stressing me out because I know I can't agree to this, but at the same time I do love her, it just all feels like we're both waiting to end things.

It feels like subconsciously she's made that switch in her head, the way she talks to me now is so damn disrespectful, any conversation escalates so easily now, old me would never put up with it, but here we are.

I'm bloody miserable right now.

Well that sucks to hear. Men's night out if I was visiting right now.

Before she has a kid, she needs to learn what being responsible actually entails. If she focuses on that, she should be cleaning herself up financially to prepare for the next storm. A home and child will bring many unexpected finances.

You should give her the ultimatum to quit living like someone half her age and focus on being an adult and pay her debts off. She has the means but it is diverted by her addiction.

As for kids.

If you ultimately don't want one, this won't work. It's been an ongoing discussion point in the 'Speak it Out' thread and I think it applies to your scenario as well. That said, you might feel more at ease of having a kid with cleared debts and room to breathe.

I mean, couples bicker and argue all the time but it helps with long-term understanding and growth. But then, there are also some milestones that can forever rift 2 people apart.

I'm sure your situation is far more nuanced than I can analyze but if you were to walk away, she'll either go further into her addiction (to cope) or she'll have her epiphany and straighten herself out.

[Badhobz]

Bic Baws is starting to sound a bit incel-ey. Don’t give up on finding the right bitch. They are out there, you just gotta bang out a bunch of horrible ones first.

[bcrdukes]

Originally Posted by BIC_BAWS

Most people I know make 1.5-2x this range and "can't afford" a place.. I think that's more of a lifestyle issue than income issue.

I don't get how people who are making minimum 6 figures gross, can't afford to save money for a DP.

You answered your own question in your response. The simple answer is lifestyle creep. It's a real disease.

[HonestTea]

Originally Posted by Gerbs

At least my boy mike is shredded



Fr though, we had this exact convo yesterday at golf. We debated whether we truly loved our partner and saw a future with them if we didn't want to
- Pay off their $30-70K Student Loan or CC debt
- Pay for an entire Wedding solo for $30-60K
- Cover a Down Payment of $150-400K solo because they had minimal savings and low income. They'd take 5-7 years to even save $100K, meaning we'll be 35-37 by that time.

We talked about whether it meant we don't love our partners or see them long term. One dude had to do all 3 but she a 9/10

Then we debated about whether the value mismatch is a deal breaker. Growth oriented vs whatever happens happens, it'll all workout.



I really liked his podcasts and I agree the relationships are an economy. Datings never been better if you have it all figured out and marriage makes no sense for most guys.

When you add all those numbers up, that's a lot of fucking money lol I'm not really sure how many people can comfortably afford that (outside of RS) unless of course bank of mom and dad steps in.

[Traum]

Am I the only person here who doesn't like anal?

Getting back on topic, I'm sorry to hear what Mike is going through. I don't have anything to add bcos what everyone else has said is already far wiser than anything I can think of.

Good luck!

[MarkyMark]

The only bit of advice I'll give you Mike is don't have a kid unless you 100% want one. Warming up to it because she's giving you an ultimatum ain't gonna cut it. If shits already on the rocks bringing a kid into the mix is most likely going to make you guys more miserable.

[GS8]

Originally Posted by Traum

Am I the only person here who doesn't like anal?

You're supposed to give, not receive

[Badhobz]

https://youtu.be/i9x8TvZld1s?si=XZ_u_5Y7dijS1Pd-

This shit is insane. What’s with the whole 6 feet + requirement for these girls ?!? Why do they care so much about height.

[BIC_BAWS]

^ you wouldn't understand Mr. 6ft+, 6fig+

[Badhobz]

[CivicBlues]

The whole 3-6s thing seems like such a Gen-Z fail. None of this shit was heard of when I was dating...like over 20 years ago. Back then you just had to not be ugly and be cool aka. had "rizz" Which of course I didn't have either. But besides the point...

Mike sorry to hear about your relationship problems. Def. don't bang her until you get this resolved. And if you do I hope your pullout game is on point, and double check any rubbers you may use....she be pokin' holes in those MFs. Can't think of a worse time to have an oopsie-baby at this point right now.

[JDMDreams]

Ah yes once 30 passes by their eggs start expiring and they have some kinda internal clock. I really dunno how ppl have kids here, unless you throw your kids at your parents. I asked ppl in HK and they said a maid is $5000 hkd a month, so around $900 cad. I was saying to my GF if we moved to Asia I can afford to have kids. Hire 1-2 maids to do the housework while you make money.

[EvoFire]

Originally Posted by JDMDreams

Ah yes once 30 passes by their eggs start expiring and they have some kinda internal clock. I really dunno how ppl have kids here, unless you throw your kids at your parents. I asked ppl in HK and they said a maid is $5000 hkd a month, so around $900 cad. I was saying to my GF if we moved to Asia I can afford to have kids. Hire 1-2 maids to do the housework while you make money.

It's called daycare and planning ahead, you live in Canada

[yray]

^ Mike should sign up now

[SSM_DC5]

Dump her. She has small titties. Or do what west said with the reverse ultimatum.

[bobbinka]

Problem with reverse ultimatum is that it might only be temporary. Want me to clear my credit card debt first? sure, i'll take out a high interest private loan behind your back that you dont know about. want me to show i'm responsible and can settle down? sure, i'll stay home for the next couple months and once kid is out, i'll go back to my ways.

Can it work out like Evofire's example? Absolutely, but you'd have to be confident you know who the other person truly and genuinely is like (today and going forward) to take that risk.

[Harvey Specter]

I have two boys, and the advice I usually give to couples thinking about starting a family is this: enjoy your freedom, travel, do everything you want to do, have a solid financial plan, and make sure you’re in a good place mentally. Not only are kids expensive but they completely change your life and lifestyle. For many people, that’s the hardest part, you go from freedom to responsibilities. Add in the demands of everyday life, and it can be a lot to handle.

[westopher]

Agreed with that. It’s not so much the money, the time difference is far and above the difference.
Also depends on family. We have none here. No help. Wanna go out for dinner? Too fuckin bad. Wanna go to a concert? Who likes the band more? We’ve gotta pick who’s taking their friend. Being recognized by the Michelin guide? Too bad. Wife’s working, kid pissed herself cause she’s so scared of the babysitter, you gotta leave 10 minutes before the restaurant is announced. Is it worth it? Fuckin totally. Took her trick or treating and she was fucking ECSTATIC. Wished every house happy Halloween, said thank you with a big smile to everyone. It’s the best. It’s insane how exciting it is to see them develop and succeed at new things. Even the smallest things.
That said, if you don’t want it, you shouldn’t do it. Not everyone should have kids. A shitload of people try and fake that they are some super parent and they clearly fucking hate it and they suck at it.
Do you want kids? Do you love her so much that even if you don’t want a kid you’ll learn to love it? Do you feel both so much you’re willing to gamble even if she can’t sort her shit out? If the answer is no to any of the above, I guess you have the answer.
If you go that route, you’ve got a sweet hog. I know tons of hot crazy nurses to send your way to stress you all out all over again if needed.

[Badhobz]

You’re a great dad. You should have more kids because that’s the kids we need in Canada

[westopher]

I’ve only got the bandwidth (and the money for one.)
But thanks man, means a lot, and honestly, if I’m a good husband and father, it’s really all I give a fuck about at the end of the day. Part of that is knowing what I need for myself to be good at that shit. Me and my wife are both very cognizant of what the other person needs. I need a day to fuck off and go snowboarding, there’s no guilt. She needs a dinner out with the other moms or time at the gym or whatever. There’s no guilt. We both also know not to abuse it and lay it all on the other person. I got lucky that it’s so easy to agree on for both of us.

[Vege]

Originally Posted by westopher

I’ve only got the bandwidth (and the money for one.)
But thanks man, means a lot, and honestly, if I’m a good husband and father, it’s really all I give a fuck about at the end of the day. Part of that is knowing what I need for myself to be good at that shit. Me and my wife are both very cognizant of what the other person needs. I need a day to fuck off and go snowboarding, there’s no guilt. She needs a dinner out with the other moms or time at the gym or whatever. There’s no guilt. We both also know not to abuse it and lay it all on the other person. I got lucky that it’s so easy to agree on for both of us.

That’s what happens when you find the right one. Good job on having a partner where you both are on the same page and can support each other.

This parenting thing is some of the hardest shit you can do. This is all extra on top of your work grind trying to afford a home and lifestyle that you can maintain.

My wife lets me waste time playing video games and waste money modding my car. Even we need our time to relieve our stress from work and kids.

[Hehe]

Originally Posted by Harvey Specter

I have two boys, and the advice I usually give to couples thinking about starting a family is this: enjoy your freedom, travel, do everything you want to do, have a solid financial plan, and make sure you’re in a good place mentally. Not only are kids expensive but they completely change your life and lifestyle. For many people, that’s the hardest part, you go from freedom to responsibilities. Add in the demands of everyday life, and it can be a lot to handle.

I am not sure it's about trading freedom for responsibilities. A kid is not an expensive toy or pet. They are something entirely different in my mind.

Before I had my son, I had all the freedom I wanted, job cleared 250k+housing/car lease subsidy even though it was a lot of travelling. To put it into perspective, I was United 1k/GS for 4yrs straight. 1M+ miles in my miles account at any given time. My wife and I would never fly anything less than business as I had so many miles to burn and for any work trip is always business.

All that became meaningless once the kid was here. I quit my job even though my boss was willing to double everything, the salary, the housing and car allowance, the bonus I got from making deals... etc. But they didn't matter one bit in my mind. I just wanted to have more time with family and there's not enough money in the world that can buy that from me.

People without kids would find my statement absurd. But the way I think is this, kids are only going to grow up once. If you can't be there for them, I don't think you are ready as a parent. In other words, if you and the mom are ready to commit your time with your future kids, any other stuff is irrelevant and you should have kids. Kids are going to be a motivation bomb that propels you into level you didn't know existed.