Vancouver's Real Estate Market

[zyzzjr]

[hud 91gt]

Sydney has always been a little cheaper. Was once a place for the elderly to retire but with prices increasing everywhere it seems to becoming more popular. Traffic on the Pat Bay highway is a hell of a lot better then going to Langford. If I were to move back I would head out that way. Only negative I see is lack of work in the area, and dealing with the airport noise.

[Tapioca]

When I stopped at a cafe in Sidney for lunch, there were several young mothers with kids that were older than 1. If they can afford to stay at home to raise the kids until school age, their husbands must be making enough money doing something. Remote work or consulting perhaps?

Looks like houses in Sidney are starting in the 800s. Probably expensive by historical standards, but easy for condo owners in Metro Vancouver to upsize with room in the budget for things like yearly vacations and project cars. Similar houses anywhere west of Langley or Mission are now 1 million. It's not hard to see the value proposition.

[hud 91gt]

When I look at the MLS average income of my friends condo in Fairview. Prices ranging from 500-900k, and 66% of the average household income (no renters allowed) is 30k and less I know to throw all logic out the window ha.

Sidney is still very accessible to Victoria so jobs aren’t an issue. I just mean jobs within Sidney are sparse.

[Tapioca]

It's upper middle class dual income households buying real estate now. Take a look at this interesting visual representation of median household incomes with children:

Twitter

Using median incomes to predict real estate prices seems to be a bit simplistic now.

[Infiniti]

https://www.theglobeandmail.com///re...ick=sf_globefb

[Traum]

Originally Posted by Infiniti

https://www.theglobeandmail.com///re...ick=sf_globefb

All of this seems very odd. If housing supply is larger than the number of new households, why are prices still soaring?

And the good doctor doesn't explain any of that.

[westopher]

It doesn’t mean they aren’t selling. People are using them as 800 sq foot bank accounts. The issue is the usage of the supply being not as intended, which yet again is why I believe there should be a limit on who can own a home, and how many.

[MG1]

I accidentally hit "First Page" in this thread. 434 pages in the past........... October, 2012

[GLOW]

who would have thought diesel_test would have such a huge impact on RS!

[G0rilla]

Originally Posted by Traum

All of this seems very odd. If housing supply is larger than the number of new households, why are prices still soaring?

And the good doctor doesn't explain any of that.

As westopher pointed out, we dont have a shortage of housing supply, we have a shortage of affordable housing supply that doesnt correlate with the average household income.

Im assuming most of them are being bought by foreigners who didnt earn their money here, not subject to the same taxes most of us pay, and see it as a safe place to park their money and generate stable returns. Thus pretty much snatching up all the supply, even though prices are ridiculous in our eyes, its most likely a cheap safe option just to get the money out of their home country.

Meanwhile locals are getting antsy, seeing everything being bought up, want to make sure they are able to own also (buy now or never mentality), drive up the demand some more and gobble everything that's available.

Developers are laughing to the bank as people will pretty much buy up anything, deficiencies or not. They can set whatever price they want and people will still purchase

[Mr.HappySilp]

Originally Posted by westopher

It doesn’t mean they aren’t selling. People are using them as 800 sq foot bank accounts. The issue is the usage of the supply being not as intended, which yet again is why I believe there should be a limit on who can own a home, and how many.

You start putting limit and rules then this is no longer a free country. What's next limiting the number of cars a person can own coz of pollution? Limiting the how many times a person can eat out coz the line up for restaurants are too long? Limiting the number of homes a person can purchase have a large impact of our economy. What if you have an investment company and you invest into real estate do we limit the number of homes a company can buy as well?

Originally Posted by G0rilla

As westopher pointed out, we dont have a shortage of housing supply, we have a shortage of affordable housing supply that doesnt correlate with the average household income.

Im assuming most of them are being bought by foreigners who didnt earn their money here, not subject to the same taxes most of us pay, and see it as a safe place to park their money and generate stable returns. Thus pretty much snatching up all the supply, even though prices are ridiculous in our eyes, its most likely a cheap safe option just to get the money out of their home country.

Meanwhile locals are getting antsy, seeing everything being bought up, want to make sure they are able to own also (buy now or never mentality), drive up the demand some more and gobble everything that's available.

Developers are laughing to the bank as people will pretty much buy up anything, deficiencies or not. They can set whatever price they want and people will still purchase

As long as the foreign investors are paying the taxes and playing by rules they can invest as much as they like. Our real estate is a lot cheaper than in most Asia country. A tiny ass apartment in Hong Kong is like over a few million Hk dollar. Recently my aunt went back to HK sold all of her apartments and moving back to Van. Just one of her apartments was sold for $6million HKD that's 980,411.40 CAD.

Vancouver economy is built on construction for the last 10+ years, you put a stop to it a lot of people are going to lose their jobs. Not just constructions but other jobs related to it will also see a lot of people losing their jobs. BC is a very very huge ass place the gov should really expand to other parts of BC.


Built different industry hub sites in different cities across BC and better transportation to them. IE Vancouver DT can be the hub site for financial, Fort St. John can be the hub site for renew energy and so on and so forth. Right now is just one giant mess where all jobs are in a few areas.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp

You start putting limit and rules then this is no longer a free country. What's next limiting the number of cars a person can own coz of pollution? Limiting the how many times a person can eat out coz the line up for restaurants are too long? Limiting the number of homes a person can purchase have a large impact of our economy. What if you have an investment company and you invest into real estate do we limit the number of homes a company can buy as well?

Remember that an absolutely free and completely market-driven economy is a really bad one where massive inequality exists? We are already there in terms of housing, and it is no a place where we want to be. Moreover, housing is not a commodity like many other items in the market. It is one of the few unique items where homes and the foundation of families are built. Without this foundation, the vast majority of people do not and cannot feel secure enough to take root in the society.

What I'm saying is, if you (and esp the government) wants society to build and grow, you have to create, or at least foster, an environment where people can feel secure and stable. Without that stability, people will just feel like migrants or temporary settlers, and you don't build societies that way.

This security do not have to come from private home ownership -- it simply means people needs to be able to afford a home, and use it as a home base where they know they won't have to worry about whether there'll be a roof above their head. If the government so chooses, we can follow the Singaporean model where the bulk of the citizens resides in government-sponsored public housing. Our government is obviously not willing and unable to do that, so the next best thing is for them to at least ensure everyone has a chance to score a reasonably affordable home.

Australia and New Zealand are already / have already taken measures to limit foreign home ownership to protect their own citizens. Last I check, they are still 2 relatively free countries -- although Australia is fast turning into an unofficial Mainland China overseas province.

As long as the foreign investors are paying the taxes and playing by rules they can invest as much as they like. Our real estate is a lot cheaper than in most Asia country. A tiny ass apartment in Hong Kong is like over a few million Hk dollar. Recently my aunt went back to HK sold all of her apartments and moving back to Van. Just one of her apartments was sold for $6million HKD that's 980,411.40 CAD.

Just because you are from Hong Kong and that is where your experience base is coming from doesn't make it a good one to reference. It's like someone with a verbally abusive spouse telling another person how his partner is not that bad because the other partner never gets physically abusive. Among developed cities around the world, Hong Kong has one of the highest Gini coefficient and worst housing affordability.

BC is a very very huge ass place the gov should really expand to other parts of BC.

Built different industry hub sites in different cities across BC and better transportation to them. IE Vancouver DT can be the hub site for financial, Fort St. John can be the hub site for renew energy and so on and so forth. Right now is just one giant mess where all jobs are in a few areas.

Have you got no concept of why Vancouver is a more favourable place to live than Fort St. John, or even just Kelowna? I don't even know why you are making bullshxt suggestions like that.

[hud 91gt]

Maybe i'm a selfish Canadian citizen, but a free country to me is one where the Government does not intervene to let it's citizens do as they please.

What does that have to do with limiting foreign ownership?

[Mr.HappySilp]

Originally Posted by Traum

Remember that an absolutely free and completely market-driven economy is a really bad one where massive inequality exists? We are already there in terms of housing, and it is no a place where we want to be. Moreover, housing is not a commodity like many other items in the market. It is one of the few unique items where homes and the foundation of families are built. Without this foundation, the vast majority of people do not and cannot feel secure enough to take root in the society.

What I'm saying is, if you (and esp the government) wants society to build and grow, you have to create, or at least foster, an environment where people can feel secure and stable. Without that stability, people will just feel like migrants or temporary settlers, and you don't build societies that way.

This security do not have to come from private home ownership -- it simply means people needs to be able to afford a home, and use it as a home base where they know they won't have to worry about whether there'll be a roof above their head. If the government so chooses, we can follow the Singaporean model where the bulk of the citizens resides in government-sponsored public housing. Our government is obviously not willing and unable to do that, so the next best thing is for them to at least ensure everyone has a chance to score a reasonably affordable home.

Australia and New Zealand are already / have already taken measures to limit foreign home ownership to protect their own citizens. Last I check, they are still 2 relatively free countries -- although Australia is fast turning into an unofficial Mainland China overseas province.


Just because you are from Hong Kong and that is where your experience base is coming from doesn't make it a good one to reference. It's like someone with a verbally abusive spouse telling another person how his partner is not that bad because the other partner never gets physically abusive. Among developed cities around the world, Hong Kong has one of the highest Gini coefficient and worst housing affordability.


Have you got no concept of why Vancouver is a more favourable place to live than Fort St. John, or even just Kelowna? I don't even know why you are making bullshxt suggestions like that.

More and more people are coming to live and work here. That's a reality. Vancouver is such a tiny tiny city and is filling up. The only way is to expand to area where it is not as populated. We need to expand beyond vacouver. Yea St. John sucks but guess what? If the gov build a nice community there with jobs, cheaper housing some people might consider moving there. Is time to think outside of your little narrow mindset and think long term. One of the main reason housing cost is so high is because there aren't enough land to built on. 2 ways we can do 1. Built more condos and apartments which are are doing. 2. Expand to other areas and that's what we need to do. Why do you think so many young families are moving out to Surrey, Port Moody, Langley? Coz is cheaper to afford a house and raise a family.

Restricting foreign investor you are just going to tank our economy. Many many many jobs rely on them. But hey let's do tank the economy and housing goes down then we can all afford a house.... but wait I don't have a job so I can't get a mortgage. Beside what do you define as foreign investor? There are people with dual citizenship are they foreign investor? What if they work elsewhere use the money they earn and investor into our housing market? You can't really say they are foreign investor since they have Canadian citizenship. Or how about the international students? They have Visa that allows them them stay and study here. Or how about foreign company buying up land to build their headquarters?

[yray]

maybe the world does need



We give incentives for small companies. Tariffs on imports. Why can't we limit ownership?

Because no politician or party would have the balls to go for it

[hud 91gt]

Foreigner to me is non citizen.

Canada has built our economy on foreign investors to stabalize the situation since we have nothing else to offer to avoid a cyclical recession. We avoided it, hurray! Now the future of our country is no longer in the hands of its junior citizens. Taking the hits and rolling with the punches is the lesser evil in this situation. The only way out is an even larger hit unfortunetely.

[stewie]

Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp

You start putting limit and rules then this is no longer a free country. What's next limiting the number of cars a person can own coz of pollution? Limiting the how many times a person can eat out coz the line up for restaurants are too long? Limiting the number of homes a person can purchase have a large impact of our economy. What if you have an investment company and you invest into real estate do we limit the number of homes a company can buy as well?

Remember that mindset when you have kids who are living in your basement until their 35 because they can't afford a place unless they say peace out parents I'm moving to butt fuck nowhere but I'll still call to say hi on your birthday and on Christmas.

Plain and simple - people need a place to live. Not everyone has the ability to pick up and leave. There's assholes who buy houses and use them as an airbnb house or be a dickbag landlord who has 0 sympathy for anyone so long as you get your monthly rent money. But whatever, you could care less that the couple who lives in the basement suite across the street who've decent jobs and should be able to live comfortable but can't.

The whole hole eating out and cars thing.... Really? Apples to oranges.

Vancouver economy is built on construction for the last 10+ years, you put a stop to it a lot of people are going to lose their jobs. Not just constructions but other jobs related to it will also see a lot of people losing their jobs. BC is a very very huge ass place the gov should really expand to other parts of BC.

Keep the prices the way they are and rising and soon you'll have no laborers to build houses or towers. They need to live and eat just like you and I. Why break their back doing hard physical labor for a wage that barely gets them by and will get them nowhere in life but scraping along the bottom of the barrel? Fuck that. I'd then take the plunge and leave. You want your 600sqft 900k condo built...build it yourself.

Ps - your aunt sold ALL of her apartments.... She's part of the problem with what's happening here. How many properties does she plan on purchasing here or already own? Canadian citizen or not, if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem.

[welfare]

LMAO. The gov is gonna devalue property. I'm sure.
Don't worry about not having trades people to build. Immigrants, who come from much worse off places, will do it in a heartbeat.

[Nlkko]

Originally Posted by stewie

Remember that mindset when you have kids who are living in your basement until their 35 because they can't afford a place unless they say peace out parents I'm moving to butt fuck nowhere but I'll still call to say hi on your birthday and on Christmas.

Plain and simple - people need a place to live. Not everyone has the ability to pick up and leave. There's assholes who buy houses and use them as an airbnb house or be a dickbag landlord who has 0 sympathy for anyone so long as you get your monthly rent money. But whatever, you could care less that the couple who lives in the basement suite across the street who've decent jobs and should be able to live comfortable but can't.

The whole hole eating out and cars thing.... Really? Apples to oranges.



Keep the prices the way they are and rising and soon you'll have no laborers to build houses or towers. They need to live and eat just like you and I. Why break their back doing hard physical labor for a wage that barely gets them by and will get them nowhere in life but scraping along the bottom of the barrel? Fuck that. I'd then take the plunge and leave. You want your 600sqft 900k condo built...build it yourself.

Ps - your aunt sold ALL of her apartments.... She's part of the problem with what's happening here. How many properties does she plan on purchasing here or already own? Canadian citizen or not, if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem.

Dude already indicated repeatedly he has no plan to have children fearing they'll take from him.

We don't want our economy to solely relying in real estate and construction otherwise we would be building ghost towns that nobody lives in. If most of our income goes to paying mortgage or rent, there are little consumer spending to sustain the economy.

Government's intervention via regulatory is healthy to enable sustainable growth, which are important. That has nothing to do with being a "free country" or not.

NYC, SF, Hong Kong are all extremely expensive but they have solid economic ecosystems to support. I also find it comical that somebody who hates on China and Chinese all the time citing their unsustainably high RE price as a reason for Vancouver RE's price being "fine".

[SkunkWorks]

Lol.

I'd take HappySilp's experiences and advice with a grain of salt - dude lived in his parents' basement well into his 30s only to buy into a 3 digit square foot shoebox.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

for all of those fighting against foreign ownership and all that... even if you do win this one battle, how soon do you think the next one will be? and the one after that? it's likely to never end. and you'll have to face it more than once in your life.

this time you might not be able to buy, the next time you'll just lose what you worked so hard to get. so on so forth.

has there ever been a place on this planet that was desirable and had this problem, and then within the span of 20-40 years hasn't just kept getting more and more expensive and people just keep bitching but really it's like one step forward for you guys then 20 steps back.

it'll be an uphill battle your whole life, unless you just start making more money. hell who knows maybe in 25 years you'll be the one buying up apartments and houses and flipping them.

I hate the prices, but I like the idea that one day I'll be the one up there doing that. Every slave dreams of one day being free... aka becoming the slave driver lol.

[stewie]

Originally Posted by Ulic Qel-Droma

it'll be an uphill battle your whole life, unless you just start making more money. hell who knows maybe in 25 years you'll be the one buying up apartments and houses and flipping them.

And how do you expect someone to make more money? Go have a heart to heart talk with your boss and expect him to side with you? Quit your job and go back to school giving you no income and upon completion still having no guarantee of landing a more lucrative job in a city with thousands going for the same position as you? Try to attempt night school and only seeing your spouse or kids for 3 hours a day for several years missing your kids take their first steps or first words?

Uphill battle or not, I'd rather say I owned and lost it than never owning it in the first place. I'm not forced to sell a place once I buy it. I may take a severe loss if the prices drop but I'd still have no reason to sell it as it's a place that's mine and one day I'll be able to upgrade to something better if need be.


Slaves may want to be free, but knowing the pain and suffering they personally went through would probably be more than enough to not want them to be a slave driver. They've experienced it first hand and know how shitty it is, why would they want to do it to others? If anything I could see them being vengeful towards the people that treated him like shit.


Foreign ownership doesn't need a ban it needs regulation with rules to prevent loopholes. We both know they're sneaking money out of their own country and putting it here and buying what they can to park it down. They don't care if they pay more than what it's worth...they care about making sure the money is here.

[Tapioca]

Not spending quality time with the spouse, etc is pretty much what I did for several years as I worked on a Master degree part time. It sucks, but that's what you need to do to get ahead in this world today. Thankfully I finished writing the thesis before the second kid came along.

With respect to investors, there are lots of foreign investors but there are also many local investors who are using HELOCs to buy condos. Can you blame them considering what people are willing to pay in rent these days?

People on the Twittersphere keep talking about demand side measures to bring the market to reality. The only way to calm demand is to make this place undesirable to live. Period.

[Sw0op]

Do you think the business owners out there who started out from scratch just survived off putting 40 hours a week in to building and developing their business? I'm sure they've sacrificed quite a lot to build their bread and butter and heck most of them probably didnt even survive.

The real world isn't easy. If you don't try to find an advantage, someone else will and they will leapfrog over you. Things aren't given to you, you have got to earn it. If you need to put in more hours or pick up another project to earn some cash then that's what you should be doing