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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
Oh, and on the topic of bullying and all that jazz, a little story.
While I may seem to be this massive left-wing nutjob on the edge of being a feminazi here, I've actually been criticized multiple times for being a misogyist. You see, on my phone I have a not-inconsiderable collection of scantily clad girls who frequently go through rotation as my phone's wallpaper. This is important background for the story.
You see, there's a friend of mine I used to work with--she's a really good foil for me in person. While I'm a heathen, she's a hard-core Christ-y. She's straight up and direct and blunt, and I try to be more diplomatic. We make a good team. However, she is more than decently endowed. Now, for me I see this as a good thing; I would often comment on it as a way of complimenting her. She, however, didn't see it this way. And I didn't get that. She made a fuss when I'd comment on it, and I had thought that it was her way of acting as though she didn't want the compliment (and/or fishing for more). So I kept it up.
Then one day, as usual, I did a teensy bit of teasing her on it. And then, to my shock and surprise, she came back with a very personal fact that I had told her; not a secret exactly, but something that I had told her in confidence and had asked her to keep private. And she snapped it back at me. At work. In public. Where everyone was listening.
At that point, I had a choice in reactions. Typically what would happen is someone would go "What the fuck bitch, I told you that in confidence, how could you shout that out?" But of course, I'm hardly typical.
So what did I do? I shut the fuck up. I stopped dead. And I thought to myself, "Holy shit. She just said that to me--she must know that this thing that I don't tell everyone bothers me. Is this how I've been making her feel? Is what I've been saying the same emotional register as what she just said to me?"
And from that point on, I stopped. I dropped it. Because what's right there and obvious and easily talked about by some is something that is a slap in the face and a kick to the balls to others. One person can't judge another person's emotional intensity, in the same way that one person can't judge another's pain tolerance. When I was a kid I had gallstones--supposedly one of the most painful things one can experience, and according to one of my mother's friends even worse than childbirth. I had gallstone pain from around 5AM. But I got up, went to school, and got sent home (not of my own volition, the teacher kicked me out because he said I didn't look well enough to be there). My mom took me to the hospital at 3 and I had surgery that night. I had that stabbing pain for probably about...15 hours? Very not fun. And yeah, I cried. Twice. But the doctor told my uncle (who I trust to tell me the truth more than my parents) that he was amazed I was keeping it together. Most people couldn't.
So when people say "whatever, just brush it off" "it's no big deal". that's right. It's not. For you.
But you're not her. Or him. Or them. And we can't decide what is or isn't painful for them. Only they can.
I think it boils down to maturity. Everyone has opinions and judgments. Maturity seeks only to understand whereas immaturity voices them and then assumes everyone thinks like them, or SHOULD think like them and demands it even.
I'm glad you learned from your mistake despite being a loud mouthed jerk, it sounds like you were sensitive enough to understand things from other people's perspective. I'm glad you guys worked it out. Your Christian friend sounds like a bitch tho. lol
And hey, if the only way some of you guys can fuck a girl is because she is FUBAR'd...
never did any of us say it's the only way. It's one of many ways. You are so quick to turn to subjective personal attacks when your arguments fail. You assume it is the ONLY way we know how to catch fish. You leave out the fact that people that love fishing, know MANY ways to catch a fish, more than you'll ever know.
Fishermen don't triumph in the technique they use to catch a fish, they only care about how many fish they catch and the quality of the fish. They want the best tools for the game. Alcohol is part of your arsenal of tools. What part of "getting pussy" do you not understand? I'm gonna tell you right now, us men know exactly what we're looking for and talking about when it comes to sex.
Your subjective, ill thought out assumptions are also the same ones that have led you to the position you so firmly stand on.
anyone who has been repeatedly exposed to extensive social activities know that they include alcohol (parties, clubs, social gatherings for the purposes of meeting new people, whatever). They also know that sexual activity is heavily associated with it. In fact it always arises in the mind, and action usually follows.
your statement obviously shows that you have very little experience in that area. You are very ignorant to what happens outside your experiences. You cannot possibly know, or understand at all, unless you have done it enough times yourself.
Memories and examples of the past from a misguided and immature child/teen, do not count.
You only understand the social complexity of human interaction when you are older. And your understanding of human interaction can only be realised through WILFULLY exposing these situations to yourself over and over and over again. like anything in life you want to get good at.
AND only after you have done this, can you start understanding how alcohol MIGHT affect human interaction.
for you still have to expose yourself to alcohol and understand your intoxicated self (on top of your sober self) many times before you can move onto understanding a social environment where alcohol is present.
On the path to breaking these situations down, you will come to a much clearer understanding of subjectivity/objectivity of perceiving oneself and others, the social hierarchy of power, the roles of gender, stereotypes, how decisions are made, MORALITY, and of course, how alcohol affects each and every one of those in every possible combination, starting with your own mind first.
Last edited by Ulic Qel-Droma; 04-13-2013 at 07:15 AM.
At least these fuckers are being charged... almost the same situation.. girl drinks too much, passes out, and the guys saw this as their opportunity to act on their "instincts" that some people say we all have.
The media has an obsesssion with prettygirl rape/suicide stories for some reason.
I simply cannot comprehend this.
For example:
Quote:
Suicide is the third leading cause of death of young persons aged 15-24 (1). That is about 10 teenagers out of 100,000 who decide to kill themselves. Numbers tend to stick with us. In 2001, 3,971 suicides were reported in this group of teens ages 15-24 (1).
While these numbers are incredibly alarming, we can look at even more specific facts about teen suicide. For example, suicide was also the third leading cause for young adults ages 10 to 14, about 1.5 per 100,000 (1). Among young people 20 to 24 years of age, the suicide rate was 12 out of every 100,000.
Racial and Gender Differences and Firearms
Of the total number of suicides among teens ages 15 to 24 in 2001, 86% were male and 14% were female (1). The great difference between male teen suicide and female teen suicide rates is because males use firearms more to commit suicide than females (who use pills more) and succeed at suicide more than females.
According to American Psychiatric Association (2), four times as many teen males succeed at killing themselves than women; however, three times as many teen females attempt suicide. In 2001, firearms were used in 54% of youth suicides.
According to Child Trends Databank, among males, suicide rates in 2003 were highest among the following:
Native American (24.7 per 100,000)
Non-Hispanic whites (13.3 per 100,000)
Hispanics at 9.2 per 100,000
Asians at 6.7 per 100,000
Blacks at 6.6 per 100,000.
Among females:
Native Americans had the highest rate of suicide at 9.0 per 100,000
Non-Hispanic whites at 3.0 per 100,000
Asians at 2.5 per 100,000
Blacks at 0.9 per 100,000
This is NOT to downplay anything that happened story in the OP.. It is just sad it is the only thing that makes it to the news...it's almost like teen suicide has a poster child. For example:
never did any of us say it's the only way. It's one of many ways. You are so quick to turn to subjective personal attacks when your arguments fail. You assume it is the ONLY way we know how to catch fish. You leave out the fact that people that love fishing, know MANY ways to catch a fish, more than you'll ever know.
.
.
. Your subjective, ill thought out assumptions are also the same ones that have led you to the position you so firmly stand on.
.
.
. your statement obviously shows that you have very little experience in that area. You are very ignorant to what happens outside your experiences. You cannot possibly know, or understand at all, unless you have done it enough times yourself.
Memories and examples of the past from a misguided and immature child/teen, do not count.
I have said it TWICE in this thread already that my comments about rape are about rape in general....NOT specifically this case! We don't know what happened in this specific situation. How many times do I have to say it?
Just as she had a lapse in judgment and morality due to the consumption of alcohol so did the boys involved. She was drunk so were they. This is why children should not be drinking and this is what parents need to be teaching their children. Children do not have the capacity to deal with the aftermath and repercussions of their choices. Its a sad loss but the blame needn't lay solely on the boys involved.
A drunk mans words are a sober mans thoughts and that applies to women too.
Sorry, but I don't agree with the bolded part. Your statement implies that being drunk is black and white - if you're drunk you lose the ability to make sound decisions and if you're sober you don't. There are many levels of being "drunk" from having a few drinks and feeling good all the way down to losing your memory and passing out. To state that "she was drunk and so were they" implies they are both equally responsible. We don't know how much either side had to drink and therefore have no way to determine responsibility.
Not to make light of the discussion, but I've hit on countless "drunk" woman in clubs when I was younger and a lot of them had the common sense to turn me down, so it appears they were able to make a "good decision" despite being "hammered".
Likewise I have known many "good drunks" (people who are just happy and have a good time when they drink) and I've also known "lousy drunks" (people who just want to pick fights and cause shit when they drink). Both sets of people are drunk, yet their behavior is 180 degrees out from each other. What is it that makes the "good drunk" fun to be around and the "lousy drunk" someone you don't want to see at your party? They're both drunk so how come they both haven't completely lost their ability to make a good decision?
I simply don't buy the excuse that once you drink you have no ability to make a sound moral decision, or that if two parties have been drinking that they must equally share responsibility.
The media has an obsesssion with prettygirl rape/suicide stories for some reason.
I simply cannot comprehend this.
For example:
This is NOT to downplay anything that happened story in the OP.. It is just sad it is the only thing that makes it to the news...it's almost like teen suicide has a poster child. For example:
Spoiler!
This is a well-documented and observed phenomenon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_white_woman_syndrome
Only in a second statement to police about two weeks later did Rehtaeh say for the first time that she had told the two boys “No” and tried to get them off her.
About everything else, her memory remained virtually non-existent.
Add to all this conversations police know Rehtaeh had with friends the day after the party, which revealed a young woman filled with regret for what she portrayed as consensual sex with two boys and who was now afraid her friends would think her “a slut.”
Rape and sexual assault are NOT just concerns for females. It goes both ways. Females should be held just as accountable as males who do the same thing.
a little late to reply, but there is a difference.
you know what it is? the difference is the man will suck it up and admit to his own mistake, and just take it as what it was. it was sex, it might not of been great sex, but whatever.
he will learn from the fact that everything he was involved in, lead up to what happened. and that the next time something similar happens, he will be a lot more cautious and if he doesnt want to risk the same scenario from happening again, he will not continue to do it.
in fact if he were a smarter person, he would have already foreseen this happening. but apparently some people only care about their IMMEDIATE feelings. oh this feels good i think ill just play along with everyone else, until i don't feel like it any more. no bro, it's a team game, life is a team game, if you don't wanna play, you don't join from the start.
there's no one to blame but to the people involved leading up to the scenario. she was one of these people, and she was definitely a leading factor.
Quote:
The girlfriend of Rehtaeh’s who was at the party told police Rehtaeh was being flirtatious, even egging the boys on.
The friend said she was in and out of the bedroom where Rehtaeh had disappeared, and that at one point saw Rehtaeh on the bed with the two boys, naked and laughing.
The friend tried to get her to leave with her, but Rehtaeh wouldn’t.
The friend was furious – she had a crush on one of the two boys and had asked Rehtaeh to stay away from him.
But she was still a good girlfriend: She later returned to the house with her mother, and again tried to persuade Rehtaeh to leave, to no avail.
lol all the pro rape finger pointers have nothing to say now. every bit of what everyone else said was true. the things that happened behind the scene, what she was doing to encourage the situation to happen.
just cuz you get fucked and you're a female, doesn't automatically give you the right to scream rape.
people are fucking stupid, you don't have the right to pull out last minute. once u start down the path, you better be prepared to go the whole way, or you fuckin stop right now.
you have to be responsible for your own actions and what you get yourself into.
you don't live in a little bubble where only your thoughts matter. how you present yourself will be perceived by others in ways YOU SHOULD ALREADY CONSIDER AND FACTOR IN.
you can't just go around the world doing what you wish, thinking as long as you stay to yourself, you have the right to do anything and not be afraid of anything.
that is complete bullshit. you must always consider others before yourself. because there is only one of you. and many other people. they will perceive you and interact with you. if you don't consider those things, you're a fucking retard.
if you act promiscuously, you're gonna get treated that way. if you think you can change your mind last minute and decide that it was all a facade, just for show... you're fucking wrong, and you're going to fucking regret it.
you walk around with a low cut shirt, people will stare.
you jump in bed naked and drunk with other drunk people, someone is gonna try to fuck you... the stupidity and arrogance in this thread is beyond belief.
arrogance more than anything else. to think that only your feelings matter. to think that only your decisions matter. fucking fools.
i hear it too often "fuck what other people think, just do what you want".
for those that have that thought come into mind often... let me tell you this, every time you think that, you're really just fucking yourself with your arrogance and stupidity.
even if the law is on your side, the law wont unrape you. nor will it unrape you the next time something similar happens.
Last edited by Ulic Qel-Droma; 04-26-2013 at 03:31 PM.
Not that any of us knew any better, but this is exactly why armchair detectives that base their conclusions completely on feelings and zero evidence should never be allowed in position of power.
Quote:
What they had was a complainant whose evidence was all over the map, independent evidence that supported the notion that any sex was consensual, and no evidence that Rehtaeh was so drunk that she couldn’t consent: The case was a mess.
But the names of four boys are online anyway – one a boy who wasn’t even at the party and who went public to defend himself last week.
lol they continue to fail even though the conclusion has been revealed.
they must be judging with their... *drum rollllll* ... immediate feelings!!!
get it in your little fucking heads, that uneasy feeling you have in your chest right now, has absolutely no bearing on this situation. zero....0!!!!
you guys must also be the same type of people who wake up on the right side of the bed, and then suddenly the world becomes OBJECTIVELY wonderful!!! regardless of what really is going on! you feel good! everything must be good!!!
oh no i feel bad... everything about it is badddd.
you guys are the most dumb, the easiest to control. all someones gotta do is say some hip hip hooray bullshit and make you feel good, and the next thing you know, you'll be sucking their dicks giving every reason why it's so great because you are so happy.
Last edited by Ulic Qel-Droma; 04-26-2013 at 04:30 PM.
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