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Really? I thought any Japanese single malt was basically unicorn tears at this point.
The 12 year old stuff yes because even the avg person may shell out a couple hundred. However, the 17/18 year stuff at around $600-700 CDN is for the more committed and I know my friends and I have easily without trying secured around 6 bottles of the Yama 18 and Hibiki 17 in the last year plus I know of other friends as recent as last month still stumble upon 17 and 18's. I mean Hillmar here just randomly came across them all as well right.
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"back at the line to Babych.... LONG SHOT....Potvin had trouble with it....ADAM SHOOTS SCORES!!!!
So just to update my earlier post, I came back with the bottle of Ardbeg Dark Cove Committee Release. I was very tempted with the Laphroaig 15 though.
I did give a hint with the earlier post as you see that the first bottle of the committee release was missing.
Just got back from Scotland, trip was cut short but was able to do a little shopping.
Anybody looking for GOT bottles? There is a boat load at Heathrow at the moment. Selling for $60 Cdn to $70 Cdn.
Picked up a bottle of King Alexander from the Dalmore distillery ($250 Cdn) with a few glasses and a bottle of Glengoyne 21 ($180 Cdn) from the distillery.
Also picked up a set of drinks by the dram.
After the ending of the show I regret picking up the bottles haha! I'm just kidding the House Stark Dalwhinnie is pretty good but the White Walker Johnnie Walker was horrible! Warm, chilled, on ice. Did not like it at all. Just rough and artificially sweet.
we found some crazy tickets, and booked 3 weeks in Lon. Planning to do whisky tour in scotland. can anybody give inputs, buses/drive. any blogs and pointers. would be great help
Some Japanese Whiskies Aren’t From Japan. Some Aren’t Even Whisky.
Though the spirits have won praise and high prices, Japan has few rules for what those bottles should contain.
Clay Risen
By Clay Risen
Published May 29, 2020
Updated May 30, 2020
59
Mamoru Tsuchiya is worried about the future of Japanese whisky. Sales are booming, but there’s a problem: A large amount of the liquor isn’t actually made in Japan, said Mr. Tsuchiya, one of that country’s leading whiskey experts.
Some of it isn’t whiskey at all.
“There are a lot of situations where you call it Japanese whisky, but they’re using imported Scotch or Canadian whisky,” he said.
Global demand for Japanese whisky has exploded over the last decade — bottles like the Yamazaki 18 Year Old, which once collected dust at $100, sell for five times the price and are now almost impossible to find. The dollar value of exports to America grew by nearly 50 percent in 2019 over the previous year, according to the Distilled Spirits Council of the United States.
ImageMamoru Tsuchiya, one of Japan’s leading whiskey experts, has proposed a set of new rules.
Mamoru Tsuchiya, one of Japan’s leading whiskey experts, has proposed a set of new rules.Credit...Mamoru Tsuchiya
But unlike most whiskey-producing countries, Japan has few rules about what constitutes whiskey, let alone what makes it Japanese. Companies can buy spirits in bulk from abroad, bottle and label it “Japanese whisky,” and ship it back out. They can export aged shochu made from grains, like rice or barley, for sale in America as whiskey. Some so-called distilleries don’t even do any distilling; they import the whiskey in bulk and contract another company to bottle it.
It’s a regulatory Wild West that both established distilleries and start-ups are taking advantage of to feed growing global demand. It’s also a potential public-relations disaster: The internet is already rife with articles claiming to pull back the curtain on the myth of Japanese whisky.
Thanks for reading The Times.
Subscribe to The Times
While many of the premier brands, like Yamazaki and its 18 Year Old, point out that they are made exclusively in Japan, others refuse to say. “It puts Japanese whisky’s reputation at risk,” said Makiyo Masa, the founder of Dekanta, an online retailer.
In September Mr. Tsuchiya, who runs an advocacy organization called the Japan Whisky Research Centre, proposed a set of rules for Japanese whisky, including a requirement that it be distilled in Japan. The rules would be voluntary, but he planned to use the 2020 Tokyo Whisky and Spirits Competition, which he runs, as a carrot: Only products that met his criteria could enter as “Japanese whisky.”
Mr. Tsuchiya said he had received support from most of the distilling industry, as well as the Japan Spirits and Liqueurs Makers Association, an industry-funded, government-chartered agency that helps set nationwide regulations.
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But because of the coronavirus pandemic, the competition and Mr. Tsuchiya’s proposed rules are on hold. While the industry and consumers wait to see what happens next, a new debate is underway: What is Japanese whisky, anyway?
Japan’s laissez-faire regulatory approach is rooted, at least in part, in its complicated history with the West.
Its first recorded encounter with whiskey came in 1853, when Commodore Matthew Perry, during his inaugural visit to Japan, gave his hosts 70 gallons of Scotch and American whiskey. It was a hit among the imperial court, and the gift became a defining memory of a landmark cross-cultural encounter.
As part of its subsequent push to emulate the West, Meiji-era Japan encouraged the production of domestic versions of that same whiskey. Japanese distillers often used sweet potatoes, which were abundant, but they produced a much different spirit than the barley, corn and rye used in Scotland and America.
“From the get-go, Japanese whisky was not whiskey as the rest of the world understands it,” said Liam McNulty, a Tokyo-based whiskey writer. No one gave much thought to defining it, he said, since it was entirely for domestic consumption. The bragging rights that came with having a homegrown whiskey industry, and whatever tax revenue it generated, were more important than the precision of the end product.
The first modern Japanese whisky distilleries, including Yamazaki, didn’t open until the 1920s. While they were modeled on Scottish operations and often produced high-quality spirits, they did little to change the overall character of Japanese whisky, which, especially following World War II, was aimed at everyday salarymen looking for a quick drink after work.
The Japanese government introduced formal definitions for domestic whisky in 1989, but by then the industry was dominated by a few big distilling companies that wanted to keep the rules loose. After 1989, for example, whisky sold domestically had to contain at least 10 percent aged malt whisky; the rest could be unaged alcohol, typically made from imported molasses.
“The lack of regulation benefits major producers,” said Stefan Van Eycken, the author of “Whisky Rising: The Definitive Guide to the Finest Whiskies and Distillers of Japan.” “If the lack were a disadvantage to them, rules would be quickly be implemented.”
Both domestically and internationally, interest in Japanese whisky began to pick up in the early 2000s, snowballing through the next 15 years as the industry’s premium brands, like Hibiki and Yamazaki, racked up global critical acclaim. But distillers didn’t have enough fully aged product to meet demand, leading many established and start-up brands to start buying in bulk from overseas.
The Japanese whisky industry can be opaque, so it is hard to know which distilleries rely on foreign sources. Still, analysts point to fast-growing exports of Scotch and Canadian whisky to Japan in recent years, even as the retail sales of those whiskeys remain flat — implying that most of the imported spirit is being bought by distilleries and relabeled as Japanese.
One company that has been open about its sources is Nikka, which makes whisky in Japan and owns the Ben Nevis distillery in Scotland. Emiko Kaji, Nikka’s manager of international business development, said that domestic supply shortages force the company to use “a small amount of whiskey from overseas” to meet demand.
She also said that imported Scotch is a critical ingredient in creating Nikka’s flavor profile, in the same way that an American baker might swear by French butter in making an apple pie.
“Unlike in Scotland, we do not have the custom of exchanging casks with other producers within the country,” Ms. Kaji said. “In order to create a complex blended whisky to meet this demand, blenders in Japan needed to look outside our country for whisky to realize their visions.”
Nevertheless, as more American whiskey fans learn that Japanese whisky isn’t 100 percent Japanese, they’re increasingly unhappy. Much of the critical praise over the past decade leaned on generalizations about Japanese craftsmanship and ingredients, and drinkers are understandably angry to learn that the whisky in their glass might not even be made in Japan.
Image
Three bottles of rare Japanese whisky, including two limited-edition releases of Hibiki, a blend made by Suntory.
Three bottles of rare Japanese whisky, including two limited-edition releases of Hibiki, a blend made by Suntory.Credit...The Aloha Whisky Shop
Some distilleries are coming clean by labeling their whiskies “world blends,” meaning a combination of imported and domestic products, said Flavien Desoblin, who carries several of these bottles at his two Manhattan whiskey bars, the Brandy Library and Copper and Oak. (These include Ao, from Suntory, one of the largest distilling companies in Japan, and Ichiro’s Malt & Grain World Whisky, from Chichibu, a highly regarded craft producer.)
“I believe it’s a great first step,” Mr. Desoblin said. “Since we have to pay a premium for just about any whisky that comes from Japan, we need to be told the truth.”
Mr. Tsuchiya wrote his proposed rules to move even further. They would require distilleries to use only grain in their mash, ferment it with yeast (shochu uses a different process), distill it entirely in Japan, and then age it for at least two years in a wood cask.
Image
Yoshitsugu Komasa, the president and master distiller of the Kanosuke distillery.
Yoshitsugu Komasa, the president and master distiller of the Kanosuke distillery.Credit...Yoshitsugu Komasa
“We require two years, instead of three like in Scotland, because in Japan we have a more temperate climate and whisky may age faster,” he said.
So far, Japan’s largest whisky companies have said they are receptive to Mr. Tsuchiya’s proposal. But some experts question whether the industry will end up supporting it. Japanese whisky may have earned a global following, but its largest market is among everyday, value-conscious domestic drinkers who don’t pay attention to technical details.
Mr. Van Eycken wonders if producers want to create a polarized landscape by explaining that Japanese whisky, their bread and butter, isn’t what people thought it was. “Call me a skeptic, but from a business point of view, that’s very unlikely.”
He may be right. But if distillers end up rejecting Mr. Tsuchiya’s proposals, it’s possible that Japanese whisky’s newfound fans will reject them in turn.
“They need to decide if their interests are good for the industry, or for consumers,” said Yoshitsugu Komasa, who founded the Kanosuke distillery in southern Japan in 2017 and has pushed other craft producers to be more transparent. “If these rules are not adopted, I think things are going to get worse.”
Chinese will stop buying it in such large amounts, and eventually demand and prices should come down.
I still remember the first time I bought Yamazaki 12 after moving to HK. I bought it because it was cheaper than the big Scottish brands of similar age Turned out to be really good, so I became a regular drinker of it (and the 18 which wasn't as cheap but still good value for the quality). Haven't touched it since prices went insane. Now even the cheap below-bottom-shelf stuff is expensive as hell when you see it in stores and airports.
They definitely do need some rules though. Normally prices wouldn't go near what they did without proper rules in place, but again it's Chinese demand driving it up.
Also I wouldn't be too mad if I found out my Japanese whisky had some of its blend imported from Scotland... Like why are you even buying it? because it's a good whisky from Japan? Or because it's simply "Japanese whisky"?
My first taste of Japanese whisky was in HK as well, before the hype took off. Over the next couple of years, I visited Japan, saw a few distilleries and learned about the manufacturing processes. So it was a a bit upsetting to find out many years later some of these Japanese varieties don't come from Japan, but that's only after seeing the distilleries and learning the history first-hand.
I spent a lot of money and time over the years building my collection. It all comes from Suntory or Nikka, therefore I am confident none are gaijin lol.
My first taste of Japanese whisky was in HK as well, before the hype took off. Over the next couple of years, I visited Japan, saw a few distilleries and learned about the manufacturing processes. So it was a a bit upsetting to find out many years later some of these Japanese varieties don't come from Japan, but that's only after seeing the distilleries and learning the history first-hand.
I spent a lot of money and time over the years building my collection. It all comes from Suntory or Nikka, therefore I am confident none are gaijin lol.
The very post you made has a quote from a Nikka rep saying they use imported whisky in their blends
Not that there's anything wrong with it, if you're buying a Japanese whisky for it's quality and not for its Japanese-ness
Some Japanese Whiskies Aren’t From Japan. Some Aren’t Even Whisky.
Though the spirits have won praise and high prices, Japan has few rules for what those bottles should contain.
Clay Risen
By Clay Risen
Published May 29, 2020
Updated May 30, 2020
59
Mamoru Tsuchiya is worried about the future of Japanese whisky. Sales are booming, but there’s a problem: A large amount of the liquor isn’t actually made in Japan, said Mr. Tsuchiya, one of that country’s leading whiskey experts.
Some of it isn’t whiskey at all.
“There are a lot of situations where you call it Japanese whisky, but they’re using imported Scotch or Canadian whisky,” he said.
Global demand for Japanese whisky has exploded over the last decade — bottles like the Yamazaki 18 Year Old, which once collected dust at $100, sell for five times the price and are now almost impossible to find. The dollar value of exports to America grew by nearly 50 percent in 2019 over the previous year, according to the Distilled Spirits Council of the United States.
ImageMamoru Tsuchiya, one of Japan’s leading whiskey experts, has proposed a set of new rules.
Mamoru Tsuchiya, one of Japan’s leading whiskey experts, has proposed a set of new rules.Credit...Mamoru Tsuchiya
But unlike most whiskey-producing countries, Japan has few rules about what constitutes whiskey, let alone what makes it Japanese. Companies can buy spirits in bulk from abroad, bottle and label it “Japanese whisky,” and ship it back out. They can export aged shochu made from grains, like rice or barley, for sale in America as whiskey. Some so-called distilleries don’t even do any distilling; they import the whiskey in bulk and contract another company to bottle it.
It’s a regulatory Wild West that both established distilleries and start-ups are taking advantage of to feed growing global demand. It’s also a potential public-relations disaster: The internet is already rife with articles claiming to pull back the curtain on the myth of Japanese whisky.
Thanks for reading The Times.
Subscribe to The Times
While many of the premier brands, like Yamazaki and its 18 Year Old, point out that they are made exclusively in Japan, others refuse to say. “It puts Japanese whisky’s reputation at risk,” said Makiyo Masa, the founder of Dekanta, an online retailer.
In September Mr. Tsuchiya, who runs an advocacy organization called the Japan Whisky Research Centre, proposed a set of rules for Japanese whisky, including a requirement that it be distilled in Japan. The rules would be voluntary, but he planned to use the 2020 Tokyo Whisky and Spirits Competition, which he runs, as a carrot: Only products that met his criteria could enter as “Japanese whisky.”
Mr. Tsuchiya said he had received support from most of the distilling industry, as well as the Japan Spirits and Liqueurs Makers Association, an industry-funded, government-chartered agency that helps set nationwide regulations.
Editors’ Picks
12 Restaurants America Loves. With Recipes!
Why Major Sports Might Risk Comebacks During the Pandemic
Rediscovering Wine After Covid-19
Continue reading the main story
But because of the coronavirus pandemic, the competition and Mr. Tsuchiya’s proposed rules are on hold. While the industry and consumers wait to see what happens next, a new debate is underway: What is Japanese whisky, anyway?
Japan’s laissez-faire regulatory approach is rooted, at least in part, in its complicated history with the West.
Its first recorded encounter with whiskey came in 1853, when Commodore Matthew Perry, during his inaugural visit to Japan, gave his hosts 70 gallons of Scotch and American whiskey. It was a hit among the imperial court, and the gift became a defining memory of a landmark cross-cultural encounter.
As part of its subsequent push to emulate the West, Meiji-era Japan encouraged the production of domestic versions of that same whiskey. Japanese distillers often used sweet potatoes, which were abundant, but they produced a much different spirit than the barley, corn and rye used in Scotland and America.
“From the get-go, Japanese whisky was not whiskey as the rest of the world understands it,” said Liam McNulty, a Tokyo-based whiskey writer. No one gave much thought to defining it, he said, since it was entirely for domestic consumption. The bragging rights that came with having a homegrown whiskey industry, and whatever tax revenue it generated, were more important than the precision of the end product.
The first modern Japanese whisky distilleries, including Yamazaki, didn’t open until the 1920s. While they were modeled on Scottish operations and often produced high-quality spirits, they did little to change the overall character of Japanese whisky, which, especially following World War II, was aimed at everyday salarymen looking for a quick drink after work.
The Japanese government introduced formal definitions for domestic whisky in 1989, but by then the industry was dominated by a few big distilling companies that wanted to keep the rules loose. After 1989, for example, whisky sold domestically had to contain at least 10 percent aged malt whisky; the rest could be unaged alcohol, typically made from imported molasses.
“The lack of regulation benefits major producers,” said Stefan Van Eycken, the author of “Whisky Rising: The Definitive Guide to the Finest Whiskies and Distillers of Japan.” “If the lack were a disadvantage to them, rules would be quickly be implemented.”
Both domestically and internationally, interest in Japanese whisky began to pick up in the early 2000s, snowballing through the next 15 years as the industry’s premium brands, like Hibiki and Yamazaki, racked up global critical acclaim. But distillers didn’t have enough fully aged product to meet demand, leading many established and start-up brands to start buying in bulk from overseas.
The Japanese whisky industry can be opaque, so it is hard to know which distilleries rely on foreign sources. Still, analysts point to fast-growing exports of Scotch and Canadian whisky to Japan in recent years, even as the retail sales of those whiskeys remain flat — implying that most of the imported spirit is being bought by distilleries and relabeled as Japanese.
One company that has been open about its sources is Nikka, which makes whisky in Japan and owns the Ben Nevis distillery in Scotland. Emiko Kaji, Nikka’s manager of international business development, said that domestic supply shortages force the company to use “a small amount of whiskey from overseas” to meet demand.
She also said that imported Scotch is a critical ingredient in creating Nikka’s flavor profile, in the same way that an American baker might swear by French butter in making an apple pie.
“Unlike in Scotland, we do not have the custom of exchanging casks with other producers within the country,” Ms. Kaji said. “In order to create a complex blended whisky to meet this demand, blenders in Japan needed to look outside our country for whisky to realize their visions.”
Nevertheless, as more American whiskey fans learn that Japanese whisky isn’t 100 percent Japanese, they’re increasingly unhappy. Much of the critical praise over the past decade leaned on generalizations about Japanese craftsmanship and ingredients, and drinkers are understandably angry to learn that the whisky in their glass might not even be made in Japan.
Image
Three bottles of rare Japanese whisky, including two limited-edition releases of Hibiki, a blend made by Suntory.
Three bottles of rare Japanese whisky, including two limited-edition releases of Hibiki, a blend made by Suntory.Credit...The Aloha Whisky Shop
Some distilleries are coming clean by labeling their whiskies “world blends,” meaning a combination of imported and domestic products, said Flavien Desoblin, who carries several of these bottles at his two Manhattan whiskey bars, the Brandy Library and Copper and Oak. (These include Ao, from Suntory, one of the largest distilling companies in Japan, and Ichiro’s Malt & Grain World Whisky, from Chichibu, a highly regarded craft producer.)
“I believe it’s a great first step,” Mr. Desoblin said. “Since we have to pay a premium for just about any whisky that comes from Japan, we need to be told the truth.”
Mr. Tsuchiya wrote his proposed rules to move even further. They would require distilleries to use only grain in their mash, ferment it with yeast (shochu uses a different process), distill it entirely in Japan, and then age it for at least two years in a wood cask.
Image
Yoshitsugu Komasa, the president and master distiller of the Kanosuke distillery.
Yoshitsugu Komasa, the president and master distiller of the Kanosuke distillery.Credit...Yoshitsugu Komasa
“We require two years, instead of three like in Scotland, because in Japan we have a more temperate climate and whisky may age faster,” he said.
So far, Japan’s largest whisky companies have said they are receptive to Mr. Tsuchiya’s proposal. But some experts question whether the industry will end up supporting it. Japanese whisky may have earned a global following, but its largest market is among everyday, value-conscious domestic drinkers who don’t pay attention to technical details.
Mr. Van Eycken wonders if producers want to create a polarized landscape by explaining that Japanese whisky, their bread and butter, isn’t what people thought it was. “Call me a skeptic, but from a business point of view, that’s very unlikely.”
He may be right. But if distillers end up rejecting Mr. Tsuchiya’s proposals, it’s possible that Japanese whisky’s newfound fans will reject them in turn.
“They need to decide if their interests are good for the industry, or for consumers,” said Yoshitsugu Komasa, who founded the Kanosuke distillery in southern Japan in 2017 and has pushed other craft producers to be more transparent. “If these rules are not adopted, I think things are going to get worse.”
Great idea though just buy the quality whiskey and create your own blends and jack up the prices through the roof by riding a reputation.
I know very little of Japanese whiskey but I’ve done some relatively extensive tastings in Scotland and Ireland and funny thinking back Japanese whiskey was not once mentioned in these tastings where as a lot of praise went to Canadian Whiskey and American Burboun.. wonder if they were all in the know
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Dank memes cant melt steel beams
Great idea though just buy the quality whiskey and create your own blends and jack up the prices through the roof by riding a reputation.
I know very little of Japanese whiskey but I’ve done some relatively extensive tastings in Scotland and Ireland and funny thinking back Japanese whiskey was not once mentioned in these tastings where as a lot of praise went to Canadian Whiskey and American Burboun.. wonder if they were all in the know
There are some great Japanese whiskys, but many more average and bad ones. I think most of the hype is riding ONE brand, and that's Suntory's Yamazaki aged single malt. That's the one that got everyone's attention, and although there are other great ones as well, it's mostly hype created by that one (IMO)
I drink like a fish but it's all cocktails now. High quality cocktails, but there's no need for expensive liquor in a cocktail. My go-to bourbon is a 90 proof Ezra Brooks which would probably sell for like $15 in the US but booze is crazy expensive here so that's what I stick with. I use their 90 proof rye as well. Actually for cocktails both are excellent, as they just have a good "this is a bourbon and this is a rye" flavour.
Unfortunately I still have to buy some expensive booze, but it's proprietary liqueurs like Chartreuse, Benedictine, etc. Have to keep some absinthe around as well.
Lately I've been drinking a lot of tiki drinks, so that means I have to keep several bottles of rum on hand. Favourite light rum is Plantation 3 stars. For aged column still (Spanish style) I got with Matusalem 7 (originally from Cuba, now Dominican Rep). I keep two types of Jamaican - Myers's for some funk and strong molasses flavour, and Smith & Cross for strong funk and higher proof (my favourite booze in the world). I also keep Plantation OFTD which is 69% (nice) for the proofy needs.
My wife bought me a bottle of Plantation Guyana 2005 for my birthday, and I've used it in a few cocktails but it's too good for cocktails I think I'll enjoy it more as a sipper in the winter.
For gin I stick with Bombay Sapphire, as a 1L bottle is "just" $25 USD and it's a nice 47% ABV. Other gins are cheaper, like Beefeater, but the Beefeater we get is their low quality 80 proof, might as well use vodka. I would prefer Tanqueray as my go-to, but Bombay is just about as good but a much better deal.
I recently found an insane deal on Cognac, which is usually insanely expensive in HK. Jules Gautret VSOP is as good (in cocktails) as any of the big brands like Martel, Remy, Courvoisier VSOP, but these bottles were 1/4 the price. Snatched up 2 bottles but never saw it again. Finished the first bottle yesterday with a Between The Sheets
So there's my "etc" part of the "whiskey, bourbon, etc" thread I have much more sitting on the shelf, lots of different liqueurs and vermouth in the fridge (I get into arguments about vermouth on reddit because people care more about brand than flavour). I've been trying all sorts of different brands, and have come to some conclusions on what I settle on.
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!
The banners on the left side and below do not show for registered users!
Turned out to be really good, so I became a regular drinker of it (and the 18 which wasn't as cheap but still good value for the quality). Haven't touched it since prices went insane. Now even the cheap below-bottom-shelf stuff is expensive as hell when you see it in stores and airports.
