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Old 05-01-2013, 08:44 PM   #26
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The first thing they teach you in safety courses is to 1) Always check the gun is unloaded with no rounds in the chamber and 2) Never point it at anyone or anything you don't want to shoot.

America needs gun law reform, simple as that. They're way too lax. It doesn't take a genius to tell you giving a gun to a child, who doesn't understand the rammifications of pointing a gun at someone and taking a life, is a bad idea.
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:46 PM   #27
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this happened because of grossly irresponsible parenting. it couldve just as easily happened with a lighter or a knife.
you really think a 5 year old boy would burn his sister to death?
You really think a 5 year old would randomly jab his sister in the neck?

no...but I can easily see kids jokingly pick up a gun and pointing it at one another...then accidently pulling the trigger to a loaded gun.

It most definitely is bad parenting...the first thing everyone learns when they pick up a gun is never point it at anything you dont want dying.

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I don't see the problem with a five year old recieving a .22 as a gift.
I do...why would you let your kids to get close to guns. Hell, isn't BB/pellet guns recommended for 13+? Even as teenagers they should be strictly supervised by their parents to handle firearm. I'd say let your 13 year old kid watch 18A movies and porn...but they should never use a gun or drive or car unless it's in a controlled environment...any thing that can contribute to immediate fatal harm.

saw these images the other day

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Old 05-01-2013, 08:54 PM   #28
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The first thing they teach you in safety courses is to 1) Always check the gun is unloaded with no rounds in the chamber and 2) Never point it at anyone or anything you don't want to shoot.

America needs gun law reform, simple as that. They're way too lax. It doesn't take a genius to tell you giving a gun to a child, who doesn't understand the rammifications of pointing a gun at someone and taking a life, is a bad idea.
You really think a kids going to remember of follow that? at age 5 my nephew still believed in Santa and that I could pul money out of his ear. Also how is a kid at 5 going to tell the difference between a toy and real gun.
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:54 PM   #29
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I do...why would you let your kids to get close to guns. Hell, isn't BB/pellet guns recommended for 13+? Even as teenagers they should be strictly supervised by their parents to handle firearm. I'd say let your 13 year old kid watch 18A movies and porn...but they should never use a gun or drive or car unless it's in a controlled environment...any thing that can contribute to immediate fatal harm.
You left out the rest of my sentence, which is crucial. There is nothing wrong with teaching your child how to shoot a rifle, there is a problem when you let your child freely handle a rifle without close supervision.

First of all, it should never have been loaded, parent's fault.

Second of all, it should have been in a safe, using a code that the child in question would never know.

Your "related" examples have nothing in common with learning how to handle a firearm, though you repeated what I've already said (which you cut out).


I'll also mention that handguns kill more people in the United States every year than shotguns and rifles combined, of which there are few. Those posters ignore the facts in favor of drama, relying on shock value to be interesting to those who don't know any better.

Last edited by Yodamaster; 05-01-2013 at 09:03 PM.
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Old 05-01-2013, 08:57 PM   #30
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you really think a 5 year old boy would burn his sister to death?
You really think a 5 year old would randomly jab his sister in the neck?
Yeah I think it's possible for the kid to have stabbed his sister. My younger brother (at the time age 5) almost stabbed me in the face with a steak knife at a dinner table one time. Luckily my super crazy awesome ninja tae kwon do reflexes kicked in and the knife just grazed the ends of my hair. I think he was pissed at me for something really stupid and just snapped. Manly pants were soiled. Moral of the story is you can't trust kids, period. They cannot even comprehend the consequences of their actions.

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Old 05-01-2013, 09:04 PM   #31
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You left out the rest of my sentence, which is crucial. There is nothing wrong with teaching your child how to shoot a rifle, there is a problem when you let your child freely handle a rifle without close supervision.

First of all, it should never have been loaded, parent's fault.

Second of all, it should have been in a safe, using a code that the child in question would never know.

Your "related" examples have nothing in common with learning how to handle a firearm, though you repeated what I've already said (which you cut out).
Why does a 4 year old need to know how to use a gun. Whats next teaching him how to dice onions or drive a 18 wheeler.
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Old 05-01-2013, 09:11 PM   #32
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You really think a kids going to remember of follow that? at age 5 my nephew still believed in Santa and that I could pul money out of his ear. Also how is a kid at 5 going to tell the difference between a toy and real gun.
I guess what I'm trying to say is

1) There should be a minimum age to buy/use guns and they shouldn't be accessible to anyone who doesn't have a valid gun license (like in canada)

2) Everyone who wants to buy a gun should have to go through a mandatory safety course.

How hard is it to keep a trigger lock on a gun
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Old 05-01-2013, 09:17 PM   #33
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Why does a 4 year old need to know how to use a gun. Whats next teaching him how to dice onions or drive a 18 wheeler.
Because you want them to grow up as educated, unbiased individuals? There are too many people bashing firearms when they know nothing about them, insisting that new laws be put in place that would make no difference.

It's the same reason why I don't spout off about the evil that is marijuana, because I'm educated in regards to the true nature of it. My parents did not shelter me as a child, and I'm better off because of it.

The phrase "why do you need that" drives me up the wall, we all have interests, and I like firearms. Fuck me for liking fast cars, since there is no apparent need for them in society, everyone could be driving Corolla's, RIGHT?
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Old 05-01-2013, 09:18 PM   #34
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Why does a 4 year old need to know how to use a gun. Whats next teaching him how to dice onions or drive a 18 wheeler.
Why does a 9 year old need to drive a Ferrari?
Why does a 15 year old need to drive a 175km/h in a Cadillac on public roads?

Both of these kids could have killed someone incidentally because of the lack of experience and young age. Was it illegal? Yes. Did it stop them? No.

What is the recurring theme? Bad parenting.
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Old 05-01-2013, 09:20 PM   #35
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Why does a 9 year old need to drive a Ferrari?
Why does a 15 year old need to drive a 175km/h in a Cadillac on public roads?

Both of these kids could have killed someone incidentally because of the lack of experience and young age.

What is the recurring theme? Bad parenting.
Kids are not aloud to drive a car till there 16. Whats the minimum age for gun use?
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Old 05-01-2013, 09:26 PM   #36
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Kids are not allowed to drive a car until they are 16.
On public roads.

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What is the minimum age for gun use?
As soon as you can open your eyes, owning one is a different story.
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Old 05-01-2013, 09:27 PM   #37
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Kids are not aloud to drive a car till there 16. Whats the minimum age for gun use?
Kentucky prohibits any person under age 18 from possessing, manufacturing or transporting a handgun, unless he or she is:

In attendance at a hunter’s safety course or a firearms safety course;
Practicing in the use of a firearm or target shooting at an established firing range, or any other place where the discharge of firearms is not prohibited;
Engaging in an organized competition involving the use of a firearm, or participating in or practicing for a performance by a non-profit group that uses firearms as a part of the performance;
Hunting or trapping pursuant to a valid license issued pursuant to Kentucky statutes or administrative regulations;
Traveling to or from any activity described above with an unloaded handgun;
On real property which is under the control of an adult and has the permission of that adult and his or her parent or legal guardian to possess a handgun; or
At his or her residence and in the possession of a handgun with the permission of his or her parent or legal guardian and justified in using physical force or deadly physical force.1

Kentucky also prohibits any person from intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly providing a handgun to any person he or she knows or has reason to believe is under age 18, and for whom possession of the handgun would be a violation of:

Kentucky Revised Statutes Ann. § 527.100 (generally criminalizing possession of a handgun by a minor; see above);
Kentucky Revised Statutes Ann. § 527.040 (criminalizing possession of a firearm by a convicted felon or “youthful offender” convicted of a felony); or
Kentucky Revised Statutes Ann. § 600.020 (defining abused or neglected children).2
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Old 05-01-2013, 09:57 PM   #38
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The phrase "why do you need that" drives me up the wall, we all have interests, and I like firearms. Fuck me for liking fast cars, since there is no apparent need for them in society, everyone could be driving Corolla's, RIGHT?
the phrase is "why do you need that at age 5"

did you drive fast cars when you were a child? No. You are an responsible adult cogniscient of the consequences.

Is riding a bike or having other child-appropriate hobbies not good enough? Can't wait until you are at least 13+? If your child is so eager at least start with airsoft/pellet guns at that age where you can't, again, cause immediate fatal harm.
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Old 05-01-2013, 10:06 PM   #39
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Meanwhile in America...
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Florida Teen Girl Charged With Felony After Science Experiment Goes Bad

Kiera Wilmot got good grades and had a perfect behavior record. She wasn't the kind of kid you'd expect to find hauled away in handcuffs and expelled from school, but that's exactly what happened after an attempt at a science project went horribly wrong.

On 7 a.m. on Monday, the 16 year-old mixed some common household chemicals in a small 8 oz water bottle on the grounds of Bartow High School in Bartow, Florida. The reaction caused a small explosion that caused the top to pop up and produced some smoke. No one was hurt and no damage was caused.

According to WTSP, Wilmot told police that she was merely conducting a science experiment. Though her teachers knew nothing of the specific project, her principal seems to agree.

"She made a bad choice. Honestly, I don't think she meant to ever hurt anyone," principal Ron Pritchard told the station. "She wanted to see what would happen [when the chemicals mixed] and was shocked by what it did. Her mother is shocked, too."

After the explosion Wilmot was taken into custody by a school resources officer and charged with possession/discharge of a weapon on school grounds and discharging a destructive device. She will be tried as an adult.

She was then taken to a juvenile assessment center. She was also expelled from school and will be forced to complete her diploma through an expulsion program.

Polk County School released the following statement:

Quote:
"Anytime a student makes a bad choice it is disappointing to us. Unfortunately, the incident that occurred at Bartow High School yesterday was a serious breach of conduct. In order to maintain a safe and orderly learning environment, we simply must uphold our code of conduct rules. We urge our parents to join us in conveying the message that there are consequences to actions. We will not compromise the safety and security of our students and staff."
So, sorry kids. Don't try any extracurricular science projects on school grounds, especially if they could result in anything resembling an explosion.

Update: Riptide spoke to the Polk County School District about why they felt expulsion was a fair punishment for Wilmot. Their response: kids should learn that "there are consequences to their actions."

We've also obtained the police report from the incident. It shows that Wilmot was mixing toilet bowl cleaner and aluminum foil. Read the full update and the police report here.
Source: Florida Teen Girl Charged With Felony After Science Experiment Goes Bad - Miami - News - Riptide 2.0 - Page 2
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Old 05-01-2013, 10:52 PM   #40
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Quote:
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the phrase is "why do you need that at age 5"

did you drive fast cars when you were a child? No. You are an responsible adult cogniscient of the consequences.

Is riding a bike or having other child-appropriate hobbies not good enough? Can't wait until you are at least 13+? If your child is so eager at least start with airsoft/pellet guns at that age where you can't, again, cause immediate fatal harm.
No, but I had fantasies of driving fast cars when I was young, what difference does it make? Impractical cars being made available to the public for use on public roads, does that not scream for reform? Shouldn't the dream of driving a fast car be shunned at a young age, if all that these cars are designed to do is speed? The arguement could be made that children could be taught that fast cars are to be used on race tracks, but is the same not true for me teaching my children the importance of gun handling and safety? Would the safe availability of a physical example not be a benefit instead of a problem?

It's not about another hobby being good enough, shooting is a hobby like any other, that's it. There is little to no danger when the instructor (being the parent) knows how to correctly and safely handle a firearm, which is important regardless of whether it's a real firearm or a pellet gun. If my future child or children want nothing to do with firearms, I won't introduce them into their lives, but the question of whether it is appropriate is not up to you.

Also, the assumption that you cannot cause fatal harm with a pellet gun is very much false, it's explicitly stated on most (if not all) pellet guns that they are NOT toys. The replica 1911 that I own can cause some serious damage in the wrong hands.

Last edited by Yodamaster; 05-01-2013 at 11:05 PM.
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:11 PM   #41
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It's not about another hobby being good enough, shooting is a hobby like any other, that's it.

Nice try but no.


Ball games are just another hobby. Knitting is just another hobby. Stamp collecting, is just another hobby. Anime watching is just another hobby. Shooting firearms.... not quite.

But interesting that you're trying to group it like it belongs to the above though.
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:16 PM   #42
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but the question of whether it is appropriate is not up to you.
of course it is...that's the essence of law, what society finds appropriate or not
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:24 PM   #43
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No, but I had fantasies of driving fast cars when I was young, what difference does it make? Impractical cars being made available to the public for use on public roads, does that not scream for reform? Shouldn't the dream of driving a fast car be shunned at a young age, if all that these cars are designed to do is speed? The arguement could be made that children could be taught that fast cars are to be used on race tracks, but is the same not true for me teaching my children the importance of gun handling and safety? Would the safe availability of a physical example not be a benefit instead of a problem?

Also, the assumption that you cannot cause fatal harm with a pellet gun is very much false, it's explicitly stated on most (if not all) pellet guns that they are NOT toys. The replica 1911 that I own can cause some serious damage in the wrong hands.
Educating them is one thing...giving them that hands on experience is another. Also I should note it's not that kids are stupid or do not listen to said education...they are curious. Many are not gonna learn until they play with fire and get burned.


Kids do not have a fully developed brain, you can't trust them with a deadly weapon. It's one thing to say "but my son Mike is very mature for his age, he's very responsible for a 11 year old"....this isn't even close. We're talking about an age group that's JUST grew out of the toddler phase...


My experience with air rifle is limited. The handful of times I've used them I was told they cannot penetrate to hit vital organs...only real risk is blindness.
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:25 PM   #44
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I don't know if you been around many 5 year olds, but some of them are plenty smart.
A 5 year old would definitely understand the destruction of a misused firearm. I have seen five year old plays pianos and violins all my life and you would be surprise how much a five year old can do.

As for the shooting part, not all people are "hobby" shooters. Perhaps they wanted to start him at a young age some he can more experience.

In this case though, the child's parents are guilty for not safely keeping the rifle.
Attention span does not equate to being smart.

I have not been around many 5 year olds, but my niece (who also lives in my house) is 5 and I can tell you she is smarter than the average 5 y/o I have personally seen/known. She goes to a private daycare AKA Junior kindergarten (one step lower than the real thing) that hones in on child development. She speaks 3 fluent languages, 3 others that she learns on the side, plays for a soccer team, plays with puzzles more advanced than her age (8+) and is learning math that is taught in kindergarten. Her teachers frequently tell us that in kindergarten she might even be bored due to the advance level we and the private daycare teach her.

However, being smart does not mean she has the attention span where I or any family member would give her a gun to use. A typical 5 year old's brain is still developing from what is right or wrong and I highly doubt they could fathom the "distruction with a misused firearm." There might be a rare amount, but the average child would most likely not.

Example. Couple weeks ago I asked her to carry a glass chopstick holder to the dinner table. Told her that it will break and possibly cut her if she is not careful if it is to drop. Do you know what she does? She starts playing with it, drops it, it shatters and she cries because she knows what she did was wrong. We put her in her place and tell her 'What did we tell you?'

A couple days ago, same thing. Sure, I could have not asked her to perform the task of putting out the chopstick holders again...but as parents/parental figures we have to teach them to learn from their mistakes. She KNOWS she has broken the chopstick holder before and she knows it will get her in trouble. What do you know? She breaks another. Granted, a glass chopstick holder is miniscule to something compared like a gun..but same idea. Just because you tell a child something is bad, doesn't necessarily mean they'll REALLY understand. It's curiosity. And really, she probably forgot about the last time she got in trouble because she`s so in the moment of having fun. Not her fault, she`s just being a kid.

She didn't repeat the mistake because she's stupid, and not because she's fucked in the head. But because she's a 5 year old little girl who constantly needs guidance and reminder to pay attention to what she's doing.

Sure, there are probably children as young as 5 who can properly shoot a gun and nothing would happen. But if you asked me to hand a gun over to my 5 year old niece...forget it. The risk of her accidentally shooting someone is not worth it to me.

AND, what people want to do with a gun (shooting it as a hobby etc etc) that's up to them. But if they think giving a child a gun is safe then they better do something to protect their most valuable assets. Their children.

---To Twitchyzero, took the words right out of my mouth. Thank you.


(EDIT)

One more thing! Sorry, I meant she speaks 2 fluent languages and learning 3 more. However she did learn to sign when she was a kid.

Example:

She learned how to sign when she wasn't able to say complete sentences but rather maybe a word or 2. Given she didnt learn how to fully sign, she knew the basics. I can't tell you how much this helped in taking care of her as a kid because she would basically be able to tell you what she needed. And honestly, how much does a baby need? Eat and sleep.
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:34 PM   #45
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1) There should be a minimum age to buy/use guns and they shouldn't be accessible to anyone who doesn't have a valid gun license (like in canada)
Actually, in Canada, minors are allowed to handle guns. They're just not allowed to do it without an adult supervising who has a valid firearms license. This could very well have happened in Canada as well. This was a case of poor parenting, not lax gun laws. Our laws here are very lax towards .22 rifles as well, just not towards handguns.
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:38 PM   #46
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:41 PM   #47
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wow talk about bad parenting instant karma
did the guy live..or is it a fake
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Old 05-02-2013, 12:06 AM   #48
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this is what i had when i was 5






not one of these.... comes in pink for girls too.....

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You were lucky...I had the clear white hand gun that lit up 20 different colors while making the worlds most annoying noises.


Sad that he killed his sister...it's bad a 5 year old has access to an unlocked gun...it's even worse that he's 5 and he got the rifle last year..I'm guessing while he was 4..
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Old 05-02-2013, 12:25 AM   #49
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lol....buy a kid a gun at such a young age,then keep that fucker loaded in the corner

fuck yeah America,keep your right to bare firearm's.



i was lucky to have one of these at 5 to keep me busy for a week then run out of caps you don't think a kid knows how to reload a rifle that looks like toy and includes bullets? i even knew how to light a lighter at 5.

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Old 05-02-2013, 12:33 AM   #50
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If I was living out in the middle of the woods - Idk if you guys ever been to where some of these people live. They don't live in the city, next to a safeway. Some of these people live half an hour just to get some groceries and have a farm and basically wilderness around. I would want to teach my kids how to use a rifle and be able to survive on the land by themselves.

It'd be locked up and only used when under supervision of course.
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