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Old 05-02-2013, 12:35 AM   #51
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The more dangerous something is, such as a firearm, the older someone needs to be in order for them to be able to handle it responsibly.

It's silly to just assume, "with parental supervision, everything will be all good!"
There's still risk involved. The parent does not possess the power of telekinesis.
The child can at any moment, decide to think it's a game, and start pointing the firearm at things they shouldn't be.
And a simple ease of pressing down on a trigger sure hell is easier than causing major damage with a knife (which is reliant on the user's strength),
or burning something with a lighter (and lighters are damn hard to use sometimes with the stupid child safety thing)

And then the argument goes, "well, what if it's not loaded."
Then why the hell does it matter if it's a real gun. Why does it need to be a real gun?
Give them a toy gun that makes sounds and I bet they will be just as happy, if not more.

It all comes down to the risk factor.

This reminds me of the news story where the mother was at the zoo and put her child over the railing.
Well, the baby was being supervised. And shit still happened.

I know, it's not a perfect analogy. But my point is, it's unnecessary risk.
Why risk it and give a young child something with the potential to kill?

And to top it off, what blows my mind further is the fact that there's a company that makes rifles JUST FOR CHILDREN.
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Old 05-02-2013, 01:29 AM   #52
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The difference between a fast car and a gun.......hmmm lets see. Well they both can kill people, they are right about that. The difference is one of these things was purpose built to inflict lethal damage on a target. It wasn't the car. Stop using this argument people. Its fucking stupid.
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Old 05-02-2013, 01:59 AM   #53
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my mind is fucking blown at the amount of people in this thread who think IT IS OKAY FOR 5 YEAR OLDS TO SHOOT GUNS

like actually. and mind is also blown at the fact that there is a company that markets guns to kids.

i cannot understand why it is educational for 5 year olds to shoot guns.

this is so ridiculous i can't believe there are people arguing for it
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Old 05-02-2013, 02:27 AM   #54
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my mind is fucking blown at the amount of people in this thread who think IT IS OKAY FOR 5 YEAR OLDS TO SHOOT GUNS

like actually. and mind is also blown at the fact that there is a company that markets guns to kids.

i cannot understand why it is educational for 5 year olds to shoot guns.

this is so ridiculous i can't believe there are people arguing for it
people are just that....Dumb.
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Old 05-02-2013, 02:44 AM   #55
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I once almost shot my brother in the head w/ an airsoft pistol, even though I checked for bbs in the mag and chamber.

Then later, I actually shot him in the back of the head... after I checked for bbs in the mag and chamber.

And I was about 13 years old at that point, so yea, don't point guns/things that shoot other things at other people.
So yea, don't point guns at people.
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Old 05-02-2013, 03:57 AM   #56
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my mind is fucking blown at the amount of people in this thread who think IT IS OKAY FOR 5 YEAR OLDS TO SHOOT GUNS

like actually. and mind is also blown at the fact that there is a company that markets guns to kids.

i cannot understand why it is educational for 5 year olds to shoot guns.

this is so ridiculous i can't believe there are people arguing for it
The idea of marketing gun to kids is akin to the tobacco or fast food industry targeting kids. Brain wash them while they're young.
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Old 05-02-2013, 04:57 AM   #57
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The difference between a fast car and a gun.......hmmm lets see. Well they both can kill people, they are right about that. The difference is one of these things was purpose built to inflict lethal damage on a target. It wasn't the car. Stop using this argument people. Its fucking stupid.
I disagree. Regardless of the object's intent, neither a car nor a gun can kill without human touch.

If you legislate guns just like we legislate motor vehicles...

Learners permit at age 15 and a formal test required for a license at 16. This kind of law would prevent deaths of young children who are taken by their parents to firing ranges to ďtry outĒ weapons. Or parents letting their kids shoot a gun in any situation. Just as a nine-year old isnít allowed to drive a car, so they shouldnít be allowed to fire a 9 mm Micro Uzi. It is doubtful children firing automatic weapons was the intention of our founding fathers when they crafted the second amendment. Hunting is no exception. Kids canít drive a car or truck for any purpose and nor should they be shooting a firearm.

Require renewal of the license every 2-3 years. I have to renew my driverís license, why not renew a license to fire a gun?

Require a different license for different classes of weapons. A driver of an 18 wheeler requires a different license. Handling a vehicle of that size with air brakes is very different from driving an automatic, 6 cylinder car. If you want to purchase a semi-automatic weapon, it should require a different license

Registration. Cars have to be registered, so all guns should be too. Remember, weíre saying guns are no more lethal than cars, so if itís good for a car itís good for a gun. Registering a weapon doesnít infringe on the right to own. Gun licensing and registration will create government jobs!

Require gun insurance. If I ever intend on driving my car, I need insurance, so that same standard should apply to firearms. Safe gun owners (gun not stolen and used in a crime, no accidents around the house, trigger locks etc.) will get breaks, and the insurance money can be used to pay hospital bills (just like car insurance) if you inadvertently injure someone with your weapon.

Safety testing. I have to get my car smog tested every 2-3 years, so why not bring the gun in for inspection? Failure to present the gun without proof of legal sale would imply illegal sale or theft and impart significant penalties. Gas stations do smog testing, so firing ranges could easily step up to the plate as I am sure they are advocates of gun safety and maintenance.
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Old 05-02-2013, 05:03 AM   #58
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Only in 'merica where gun use and gun "respect" are instilled in children.
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Old 05-02-2013, 08:00 AM   #59
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The difference between a fast car and a gun.......hmmm lets see. Well they both can kill people, they are right about that. The difference is one of these things was purpose built to inflict lethal damage on a target. It wasn't the car. Stop using this argument people. Its fucking stupid.
Really? I thought both objects were meant to transport an object from Point A to Point B. And it's the intent to inflict lethal damage. Remember even a pencil can be used in an Assault, despite it's purpose being used for writing. It doesn't matter what it's purpose was built for. It's an INANIMATE object. One that does NO HARM until you or some other idiot touches it. I have yet to see my little bullet armies jump up load themselves into a gun and shoot at a paper target at the gun range. Nor has the gun ever spoken to me to do evil things. Notice how if you use a car to kill people it also becomes a DEADLY WEAPON when you are charged with the criminal offence.

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I disagree. Regardless of the object's intent, neither a car nor a gun can kill without human touch.

If you legislate guns just like we legislate motor vehicles...
*SNIP*
Guns are regulated in the US as well.In most states anyone under the age of 18 is not allowed to own guns or use them without supervision. It's bad parenting. You do not see the amount of children who shoot at the range and do perfectly fine. They don't jump around, their attention span is great. Because they are focused on something. Do you know how ADHD is started in children? We program them when we are young. Commercial breaks every 10min. 3-5minute youtube clips. 30second ads where we just tune out and go somewhere else. Everything we do is just increasing our inability to pay attention. If you were to focus on a target like doing archery. You would build your attention span greatly. Just the same as firing a gun.

There are also a few rules you have to always instill in the child. Never put your finger on the trigger unless you are sure of what your going to hit. Never point it at anyone. Always assume the gun is loaded even if you checked. And yes you can make sure your child learns these simple rules. You just have to instill it in them.

In Canada you do have to renew your firearms permit every 5 years. US if you have any version of the Concealed handgun license(many different names for different states) you have to renew that every 5 years as well.

I am AGAINST registration because that always leads to confiscation. If you want to look at an example for Canadian law. The AP-80 was recently changed from non-restricted to prohibited and needs to be sent into the firearms department of the RCMP for destruction or deactivation. Why? Because some person thought it looked too much like an AK-47 when it didn't function like an AK-47 at all. The mechanisms inside the machine were different. The same thing happened earlier before the 1980's when handguns needed to be registered in Canada. A ton of owners just got notices saying they had to hand in their guns or they would become criminals.

And obviously a lot of people fail to recognize the 2nd ammendment. They say how because things have changed and technology has changed that we should also make modifications to it. That's like saying the internet isn't included in the First Ammendment so that we should not have the ability to have freedom of speech online. You can't just be selective of freedoms mainly because you just use it and that it benefits you. And if you say I'm Canadian the 2nd ammendment doesn't affect me then I fail to see the reason why you are giving your 2 cents to this debate. Because we aren't talking about something that happened in Canada, it's something that's happened in the US

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Old 05-02-2013, 09:14 AM   #60
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its a rifle that shoots real bullets, why wouldn't you keep in a case or at the very least have a lock on it, not keep it in the corner for him to play with it and treat it like a toy

smh
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Old 05-02-2013, 09:35 AM   #61
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so yea, don't point guns/things that shoot other things at other people.
So yea, don't point guns at people.
thanks for the tip
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Old 05-02-2013, 10:02 AM   #62
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The difference between a fast car and a gun.......hmmm lets see. Well they both can kill people, they are right about that. The difference is one of these things was purpose built to inflict lethal damage on a target. It wasn't the car. Stop using this argument people. Its fucking stupid.
They are tools. Tools to be used and respected. They both create force based on the propulsion of momentum.

If I was living in the wild I would teach my kids how to use and respect a knife. It's useful. Just like how I would teach them how to build a fire and chop wood, I would probably teach them how to shoot and hunt with a rifle. Why? Because we don't live in the city. Life is different. It's country life.

These people do not live in the same environment that you do. It's bad parenting, just like bad parents that let kids play around with fire or kinves, but there is nothing wrong with responsible firearm owning.

Pets accidently kill babies. Lets not have pets?
Older brother/sister accidently smothers little sibling. Lets stop having sibling?

My father showed me how to ride a motorcycle and drive a car by sitting behind me while I was extremely young and one of the fondest memories of my life. Kids these days are so fucking coddled into thinking they're retarded and cannot handle responsibilities that they actually don't learn to handle responsibilities until they are already full sized douchebags. You have to teach them to be responsible at a young age. I was walking myself to Gr 1 in a small town when my school was a good 25 minute walk away.

Stop falling for media sensationalization in order to get you to give emotional responses for extremely isolated incidents. For every one one of these incidents there are thousands if not ten thousands of kids that grew up around firearms that respects and handles them as the dangerous tools that they are. Blame the parents, not the tools.

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Old 05-02-2013, 06:06 PM   #63
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If I was living out in the middle of the woods - Idk if you guys ever been to where some of these people live. They don't live in the city, next to a safeway. Some of these people live half an hour just to get some groceries and have a farm and basically wilderness around. I would want to teach my kids how to use a rifle and be able to survive on the land by themselves.

It'd be locked up and only used when under supervision of course.
This

Most of the people on Revscene have never handled a firearm. I was introduced to them at the ripe old age of 12 when I joined Army Cadets. Maybe some people disagree, but I think the strict rules and supervision I had while handling firearms will work just fine with even younger kids - but only if the supervision was there.

We had proper set out areas for ranges - you only pick up the rifle when you are ready to shoot it. Rifle always points downrange towards the target. It isn't hard for an adult to sit next to the child lying down and keep that rifle pointed at one direction. You can give them one round at a time and help them load it.

I personally don't own any firearms, but I do have friends that do. My friend (with a proper firearm license) takes his pre-teen step brother shooting often, and he teaches his brother respect for firearms, etc.
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Old 05-02-2013, 06:25 PM   #64
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This

Most of the people on Revscene have never handled a firearm. I was introduced to them at the ripe old age of 12 when I joined Army Cadets. Maybe some people disagree, but I think the strict rules and supervision I had while handling firearms will work just fine with even younger kids - but only if the supervision was there.

We had proper set out areas for ranges - you only pick up the rifle when you are ready to shoot it. Rifle always points downrange towards the target. It isn't hard for an adult to sit next to the child lying down and keep that rifle pointed at one direction. You can give them one round at a time and help them load it.

I personally don't own any firearms, but I do have friends that do. My friend (with a proper firearm license) takes his pre-teen step brother shooting often, and he teaches his brother respect for firearms, etc.
Yes I know 12 year olds shoot guns in the cadets but to my knowledge even the army isn't crazy enough to let FIVE year olds shoot guns. You were more than double their age.. How are you even comparing this?
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Old 05-02-2013, 06:53 PM   #65
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This

Most of the people on Revscene have never handled a firearm. I was introduced to them at the ripe old age of 12 when I joined Army Cadets. Maybe some people disagree, but I think the strict rules and supervision I had while handling firearms will work just fine with even younger kids - but only if the supervision was there.

We had proper set out areas for ranges - you only pick up the rifle when you are ready to shoot it. Rifle always points downrange towards the target. It isn't hard for an adult to sit next to the child lying down and keep that rifle pointed at one direction. You can give them one round at a time and help them load it.

I personally don't own any firearms, but I do have friends that do. My friend (with a proper firearm license) takes his pre-teen step brother shooting often, and he teaches his brother respect for firearms, etc.
This.

I feel that such an activity is safe, because I have real life proof that it is, and that for the most part, children love it. My uncle started teaching his daughter how to shoot with a .22 rifle, she is seven years old, and she has more gun sense than some misinformed adults do.

He never lets her out of his sight with the rifle, and he never lets her use it unless he is right there with her. He locks it away securely when it's not in use, and he always reaffirms the rules of firearms safety with her before every outing.

It's not safe to introduce firearms into your family's life if you yourself are not safe with firearms, as with anything in life. I do not see why it is deemed "unsafe" or "innapropriate" if the parent or guardian knows exactly what he or she is doing.

I can name a few fun activities that I was involved in at a young age without incident, including the use of fireworks. If the blind are leading the blind, something is bound to go wrong, otherwise, it's fair game.
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Old 05-02-2013, 06:55 PM   #66
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They are tools. Tools to be used and respected. They both create force based on the propulsion of momentum.

Pets accidently kill babies. Lets not have pets?
Older brother/sister accidently smothers little sibling. Lets stop having sibling?

Stop falling for media sensationalization in order to get you to give emotional responses for extremely isolated incidents. For every one one of these incidents there are thousands if not ten thousands of kids that grew up around firearms that respects and handles them as the dangerous tools that they are. Blame the parents, not the tools.
No where did I say anything about banning guns, only made a point about how fucking stupid that argument is. Don't worry, I blame the parents wholeheartedly, just making a point that stupid argument is stupid.
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Old 05-02-2013, 06:57 PM   #67
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Yes I know 12 year olds shoot guns in the cadets but to my knowledge even the army isn't crazy enough to let FIVE year olds shoot guns. You were more than double their age.. How are you even comparing this?
they usually use air rifles too...again not a proper comparison.
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Old 05-02-2013, 07:53 PM   #68
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The idea of marketing gun to kids is akin to the tobacco or fast food industry targeting kids. Brain wash them while they're young.
And what sort of brain washing are they trying to do selling guns to kids?
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Old 05-02-2013, 09:32 PM   #69
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I don't see the problem with a five year old recieving a .22 as a gift, I do see a problem with it laying around with a live round in the chamber. The only time he should be handling it is when his parents are right beside him, watching.

Bad parenting, bad gun owners.
A 5 year old should not receive a gun. Even if their parents are watching them , the kid could turn and shoot the parents or them-self. This is messed up.
His sister probably pissed him off and he shot her, so it was probably not an accident.
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Old 05-02-2013, 10:24 PM   #70
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A 5 year old should not receive a gun. Even if their parents are watching them , the kid could turn and shoot the parents or them-self. This is messed up.
His sister probably pissed him off and he shot her, so it was probably not an accident.
Age is an arbitrary number for these things. Who's to say a 50 year old has the ability to make these decisions. Whose to say a 5 year old can't. Why can we drink after we are 19 in BC when teenagers obviously do. Some people are able to handle it and do it responsibly, some can't. You still have 30 year olds who drink irresponsibly, but the law states that they are responsible adults after they reach the age of 19. just because you KNOW a 5 year old that can get pissed off and shoot their sister doesn't mean EVERY 5 year old will do that. I know plenty of children who can be mature and act so. More so than many of the adults me included potentially. ^^
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Old 05-02-2013, 10:29 PM   #71
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Age is an arbitrary number for these things. Who's to say a 50 year old has the ability to make these decisions. Whose to say a 5 year old can't... just because you KNOW a 5 year old that can get pissed off and shoot their sister doesn't mean EVERY 5 year old will do that. I know plenty of children who can be mature and act so. More so than many of the adults me included potentially. ^^


it's already been covered

kids do not have brains fully developed.

Laws are in place for a reason. A 13 year old can't consent to sex because their sex organs have not developed...it's the same idea.
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:12 PM   #72
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it's already been covered

kids do not have brains fully developed.

Laws are in place for a reason. A 13 year old can't consent to sex because their sex organs have not developed...it's the same idea.
I don't think it's because their sex organs have not developed. But rather because they have been deemed to not be able to make conscious decisions and can be taken advantage of by those older than them. And a 13 year old can actually consent to sex with another 13 year old. There's a same age clause. So before quoting something, might want to read more about it.

So responsibility comes from a fully developed brain? I think it is more learning responsibility than just waiting for that part of your brain to develop and suddenly go, I AM RESPONSIBLE. Even if with your theory of that's how it works, there are a ton of people that are irresponsible and don't take responsibility for their actions.

And you say laws are in place for a reason.Haven't you seen a stupid law? Or a law that shouldn't have been created? Or one that was created and ended up having more issues than having resolved any?

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Old 05-02-2013, 11:30 PM   #73
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So responsibility comes from a fully developed brain? I think it is more learning responsibility than just waiting for that part of your brain to develop and suddenly go, I AM RESPONSIBLE. Even if with your theory of that's how it works, there are a ton of people that are irresponsible and don't take responsibility for their actions.
Lets say hypothetically you can conduct a study from a cohort of average preschool/day care...

You teach them about gun safety.

80% of them hears what you have to say but aren't actually listening...few probably too busy picking their nose and the remainder of the class is admiring how shiny your gun is.

That's about the level you can expect a 5 year's brain to operate at.

Let's say you leave them unattended for just a few minutes but you leave the room with all the ammo. I bet a few will disregard your safety speech and wave the gun around the classroom.
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:43 PM   #74
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Lets say hypothetically you can conduct a study from a cohort of average preschool/day care...

You teach them about gun safety.

80% of them hears what you have to say but aren't actually listening...few probably too busy picking their nose and the remainder of the class is admiring how shiny your gun is.

That's about the level you can expect a 5 year's brain to operate at.

Let's say you leave them unattended for just a few minutes but you leave the room with all the ammo. I bet a few will disregard your safety speech and wave the gun around the classroom.
WHY ARE YOU LEAVING 5 YEAR OLDS WITH GUNS WITHOUT SUPERVISION. The point is, They can be responsible enough to use them with supervision. See in your study you have tons of kids who are dead. In a proper study where you re-enforce the values of gun safety continuously you will not end up with dead kids. And where are you getting this 80% from? Stop pulling numbers from your ass. Now while you were picking your nose as a kid, I actually listened to the teacher. Now that's about as much as I can remember from when I was 5 years old. So the fact that you are able to project yourself into a 5 year old's body and say what they are thinking and what actions they take I applaud you.

And I have seen many 5 year olds shoot responsibly. With their fathers standing in the back. No they haven't pointed the gun at me nor other people. In fact the people I see that end up pointing firearms at other people are usually people in the Teens to 30 year old. They usually get excited jump up and down and don't control the muzzle direction. So... they are actually LESS disciplined because there hasn't been positive re-enforcement of education on firearms.
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Old 05-03-2013, 04:54 AM   #75
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i think my problem with 5 year olds shooting guns is.. they don't yet understand the fragility of life quite yet and what kind of damage they COULD do with a gun.

like even with supervision, no matter how many times you tell the kid 'never point it at anyone', would a 5 year old _really_ understand like an adult would what danger it could cause if he shot someone?

would he understand he could kill someone, end their life? did the 5 year old who shot his sister understand at that moment that he will grow up a single child?

no, they do not. and that's the reason why it's dangerous. of course you can explain to a 5 year old that they must not do this, must not do that, but in reality a lot of kids break the rules, especially when they don't understand the seriousness of their actions.

how many times have you seen a 5 year old break a rule that their parents told them? and you're STILL okay with them using a potentially fatal weapon?

so NO - they definitely are not responsible enough to be shooting any time of firearm, either with or without supervision.
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