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Old 08-22-2013, 04:37 PM   #126
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And I agree, that seems pretty hinky - I can see their point on that.

So far though, every commercial I've heard mentions the inability for any of the Big Three to purchase any of the small companies... which is retarded, because all that would do is REDUCE competition.
Ah, I see your point. I have not actually seen any commercials.
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Old 08-22-2013, 05:02 PM   #127
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I haven't SEEN any, I'm just talking about the radio commercials I hear constantly.
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Old 08-22-2013, 05:58 PM   #128
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think about it if the situation is switched

would the american government be ok with it if any of the big 3 were allowed to enter the american market with the same privileges that verizon would have?

i think competition would be great, but why wouldn't you allow a fair playing field?
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Old 08-22-2013, 09:47 PM   #129
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As Far as i know the unfair part is really aimed at the purchase of two of the four blocks of 700 MHz spectrum at the upcoming auction. If Verizon comes in and is able to buy two then either TELUS, Rogers or Bell will not be able to acquire one. 700 mhz has the best propagation characteristics and penetration abilities. It would allow current hspa+ rural areas to have LTE data with the same tower footprint from what i understand.
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think about it if the situation is switched

would the american government be ok with it if any of the big 3 were allowed to enter the american market with the same privileges that verizon would have?

i think competition would be great, but why wouldn't you allow a fair playing field?
The incumbents are only complaining about a "level-playing field" because they don't have an ADVANTAGE in the upcoming 700MHz spectrum auction. They have always maintained an ADVANTAGE in all of their previous spectrum auctions by gathering and purchasing ALL of the available spectrum in EVERY spectrum auction (aka. spectrum hogging), with the exception of the 1700MHz auction because WIND and Mobi were able to get a piece of the pie (I will not go into Clearnet and Fido for the sake of relevancy).

The following is a chart that I just drew up to highlight all of the frequencies that the incumbents OWN (as of Aug 2013).

Rogers: (850MHz, 1900MHz, 1700MHz, 2100MHz, 2600MHz])
Telus: (1700MHz, 1900MHz)
Bell: (1700MHz, 1900MHz)

The BOLDED FREQUENCIES are currently being USED in the U.S. for their 4G LTE EXPANSION. Yes! The U.S. are also using a variety of other frequencies for their LTE EXPANSION as well, and if the incumbents don't have 700Mhz, they can still expand their LTE offering, by tapping into their existing purchased spectrum blocks (from years ago), to those bolded frequencies in Canada, and it will work in Canada and will also streamline with the US. So NO, 700 MHz is NOT the so all, be all, that they desperate need in order to survive. However, Verizon (if they come to Canada), WIND, and Mobi don't have any of the other spectrum that the incumbents have to expand their network, and they don't have an overabundance of 1700Mhz that the incumbents have to gain "leveled playing field" in Canada.

Spectrum Hogging - As I've pointed out, the big 3 in the last decade or so, have purchased ALL AVAILABLE spectrum blocks in every auction, EVEN WHEN THEY DIDN'T NEED ALL OF IT, to expand their network. Till this day, they have used only a very small percentage of the frequency purchased to build and expand their network.

So... why are they buying up all the spectrum if they aren't going to use all of it?

TO KEEP COMPETITORS OUT!

They already have more than they need to expand with 850, 1700, 1900, and be able to make their network streamlined with the U.S. (take a look at the bold points above again).

In reality, the 700Mhz spectrum is a non-issue, but they want to make it into an issue, and whine about it, and unfortunately, some are falling into it because your average joe isn't knowledgeable about what's really happening.

EDIT: Here's a bit more on the topic of spectrum hogging, and for some odd reason, the major media outlets have not reported on this. Robellus hogs the most spectrum of all wireless carriers in the world (even more than the U.S. carriers at nearly 2-3x more).

REF: List of LTE networks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Last edited by willystyle; 08-22-2013 at 11:50 PM.
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Old 08-23-2013, 06:14 AM   #130
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The incumbents are only complaining about a "level-playing field" because they don't have an ADVANTAGE in the upcoming 700MHz spectrum auction. They have always maintained an ADVANTAGE in all of their previous spectrum auctions by gathering and purchasing ALL of the available spectrum in EVERY spectrum auction (aka. spectrum hogging), with the exception of the 1700MHz auction because WIND and Mobi were able to get a piece of the pie (I will not go into Clearnet and Fido for the sake of relevancy).

The following is a chart that I just drew up to highlight all of the frequencies that the incumbents OWN (as of Aug 2013).

Rogers: (850MHz, 1900MHz, 1700MHz, 2100MHz, 2600MHz])
Telus: (1700MHz, 1900MHz)
Bell: (1700MHz, 1900MHz)

The BOLDED FREQUENCIES are currently being USED in the U.S. for their 4G LTE EXPANSION. Yes! The U.S. are also using a variety of other frequencies for their LTE EXPANSION as well, and if the incumbents don't have 700Mhz, they can still expand their LTE offering, by tapping into their existing purchased spectrum blocks (from years ago), to those bolded frequencies in Canada, and it will work in Canada and will also streamline with the US. So NO, 700 MHz is NOT the so all, be all, that they desperate need in order to survive. However, Verizon (if they come to Canada), WIND, and Mobi don't have any of the other spectrum that the incumbents have to expand their network, and they don't have an overabundance of 1700Mhz that the incumbents have to gain "leveled playing field" in Canada.

Spectrum Hogging - As I've pointed out, the big 3 in the last decade or so, have purchased ALL AVAILABLE spectrum blocks in every auction, EVEN WHEN THEY DIDN'T NEED ALL OF IT, to expand their network. Till this day, they have used only a very small percentage of the frequency purchased to build and expand their network.

So... why are they buying up all the spectrum if they aren't going to use all of it?

TO KEEP COMPETITORS OUT!

They already have more than they need to expand with 850, 1700, 1900, and be able to make their network streamlined with the U.S. (take a look at the bold points above again).

In reality, the 700Mhz spectrum is a non-issue, but they want to make it into an issue, and whine about it, and unfortunately, some are falling into it because your average joe isn't knowledgeable about what's really happening.

EDIT: Here's a bit more on the topic of spectrum hogging, and for some odd reason, the major media outlets have not reported on this. Robellus hogs the most spectrum of all wireless carriers in the world (even more than the U.S. carriers at nearly 2-3x more).

REF: List of LTE networks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
First off, the incumbents do not "own" those frequencies. They own bands within those frequencies. Also cellular manufacturers need to build phones that utilize those frequencies, which is why Wind and Mobi have limited handset options.

So 700 mhz is not a non issue. In Highly populated urban areas maybe, in a country like Canada with its vastness it is needed for the rural areas more than just for building penetration in the urban centers. To your point about hoarding, the only incumbent that looks to be hoarding is rogers. Telus for example combined owns 60 mhz of spectrum in those bands, Rogers 150 mhz and bell owns a little over 100 mhz. To provide LTE to those living outside of urban centers 700 mhz would be an asset.

Here is a comparison :


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Old 08-23-2013, 08:32 AM   #131
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First off, the incumbents do not "own" those frequencies. They own bands within those frequencies. Also cellular manufacturers need to build phones that utilize those frequencies, which is why Wind and Mobi have limited handset options.

So 700 mhz is not a non issue. In Highly populated urban areas maybe, in a country like Canada with its vastness it is needed for the rural areas more than just for building penetration in the urban centers. To your point about hoarding, the only incumbent that looks to be hoarding is rogers. Telus for example combined owns 60 mhz of spectrum in those bands, Rogers 150 mhz and bell owns a little over 100 mhz. To provide LTE to those living outside of urban centers 700 mhz would be an asset.

Here is a comparison :

To be fair in all this, I think having the new providers having the ability to lock out one of the incumbents is something of a good thing. If nothing else, it provides some very nice leverage to negotiate for better tower and/or frequency sharing with them.

There was a news article I read about a year or so ago when Wind was trying to negotiate to get their signal into the Canada Line. Telus built the infrastructure down there with the proviso that they would have the ability to provide service for up to 4 companies. Wind wanted a piece of that action, and Telus said "Sure, no problem; just pay the same as Rogers and Bell." Wind, given that they're much smaller than either of the others, balked and went "Uh, this is reasonable and fair access?" and I think filed a complaint to the CRTC, claiming that they were being locked out.


Having Windizon blocking out one of the major incumbents in the 700mhz frequency would give them a lot more flexibility and negotiating power in future--which is kind of what competition is. Finding an advantage and doing your best to exploit it to gain whatever you can.
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Old 08-23-2013, 09:39 AM   #132
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To be fair in all this, I think having the new providers having the ability to lock out one of the incumbents is something of a good thing. If nothing else, it provides some very nice leverage to negotiate for better tower and/or frequency sharing with them.

There was a news article I read about a year or so ago when Wind was trying to negotiate to get their signal into the Canada Line. Telus built the infrastructure down there with the proviso that they would have the ability to provide service for up to 4 companies. Wind wanted a piece of that action, and Telus said "Sure, no problem; just pay the same as Rogers and Bell." Wind, given that they're much smaller than either of the others, balked and went "Uh, this is reasonable and fair access?" and I think filed a complaint to the CRTC, claiming that they were being locked out.


Having Windizon blocking out one of the major incumbents in the 700mhz frequency would give them a lot more flexibility and negotiating power in future--which is kind of what competition is. Finding an advantage and doing your best to exploit it to gain whatever you can.
That makes sense if Verizon is willing to build a national network. Otherwise the incumbents would just be sharing the 700 mhz spectrum in the areas they need it the least.
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Old 08-23-2013, 02:07 PM   #133
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First off, the incumbents do not "own" those frequencies. They own bands within those frequencies.
For clarity, it's easier to identify when you call it frequency vs. band.

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Also cellular manufacturers need to build phones that utilize those frequencies, which is why Wind and Mobi have limited handset options.
1700Mhz is widely used as the official LTE band in the U.S. and the Big 3 has more than they need to provide urban and rural coverage, hence there will be many options for handsets.

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So 700 mhz is not a non issue. In Highly populated urban areas maybe, in a country like Canada with its vastness it is needed for the rural areas more than just for building penetration in the urban centers. To your point about hoarding, the only incumbent that looks to be hoarding is rogers. Telus for example combined owns 60 mhz of spectrum in those bands, Rogers 150 mhz and bell owns a little over 100 mhz. To provide LTE to those living outside of urban centers 700 mhz would be an asset.
Yes it would be an asset if the big 3 can obtain 700 MHz, but the scenario that they are portraying to the public like they are going to close down the next day if they can't get enough is false. They have more than what they need with AWS LTE to roll out in urban and rural. The small carriers need 700MHz WAAAY MORE than the incumbents do. If they want a "level playing field" then they should give up all of their unused spectrum (850, 1700, 1900), and sell it to the highest bidder, if they want a more "level playing field" in the upcoming auction.

This is about who needs it more than the other, it's clear to me that the small players need it way more.

The Big 3 Telecom are hoarding, when an article suggests that they have way more spectrum than everyone else.
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Old 08-24-2013, 01:08 PM   #134
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You seem to have very bad luck. I'm curious, how are all these companies screwing you over?

I must be pretty lucky, as I haven't been screwed over yet (unless I haven't looked closely at my account). Please do tell, it's interesting.
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Rogers broke their end of the contract and was settled out of court. Basically, they tried to argue that they had the right to change the terms of the contract without notice when nothing in the original contract stated that they had any right at all to change the terms of the agreement.

Bell continued charging me for service after my contract expired despite being given ample notice (60 days) both by phone and by letter that I wanted my service terminated when my contract expired. To add insult to injury, they terminated my service 2 weeks before the contract expired and didn't send me any bills (neither paper or by e-mail). I didn't find out they were still charging me until they sent collections after me for 3 months of missed payments AND an early termination fee.
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Old 08-24-2013, 03:40 PM   #135
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Rogers broke their end of the contract and was settled out of court. Basically, they tried to argue that they had the right to change the terms of the contract without notice when nothing in the original contract stated that they had any right at all to change the terms of the agreement.

Bell continued charging me for service after my contract expired despite being given ample notice (60 days) both by phone and by letter that I wanted my service terminated when my contract expired. To add insult to injury, they terminated my service 2 weeks before the contract expired and didn't send me any bills (neither paper or by e-mail). I didn't find out they were still charging me until they sent collections after me for 3 months of missed payments AND an early termination fee.
OK that's pretty fair, Lol.

I just can't stand people that consider paying too much, or being stuck on contracts as being "screwed over".
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Old 08-24-2013, 04:43 PM   #136
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OK that's pretty fair, Lol.

I just can't stand people that consider paying too much, or being stuck on contracts as being "screwed over".
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It's being screwed over when someone you know is paying less or worse someone on the same account is paying less.

The latest big 3 ad claims they create 65000 jobs, but it does not state witch country.
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Old 08-24-2013, 04:55 PM   #137
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OK that's pretty fair, Lol.

I just can't stand people that consider paying too much, or being stuck on contracts as being "screwed over".
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If I didn't go back to school, I would've stuck with the plan I had from Bell because it was a pretty sweet deal (corporate plan). 450 anytime minutes, 6 GB/month data, unlimited texting, extended evenings/weekends, no roaming charges in US/Canada, voice mail, call forwarding, conference calling, etc. for about $55/month after taxes.

However, it was significantly cheaper to piggy back onto my then-SO's employee plan from Telus, which lost a fair chunk of data (1 GB/month between the two of us), but also saved $45/month. Along with cutting back my internet and cable plans, it saved about $100/month, which goes a long way when you're not working full-time.

Unfortunately, Bell pulled that shit and put a dent in my previously flawless credit and cost me one of my few days off as collections called me at 8 AM on a Saturday morning (after a night out w/ the boys, no less).
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Old 08-28-2013, 03:20 PM   #138
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By the way...


I'm guessing Verison got a soft okay from the government/CRTC or whoever because they are now starting the recruitment process of hiring CANADIAN Engineers and technologists.

They have a few positions in Ottawa right now that is being handled currently by a recruitment company.
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Old 08-28-2013, 04:03 PM   #139
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By the way...


I'm guessing Verison got a soft okay from the government/CRTC or whoever because they are now starting the recruitment process of hiring CANADIAN Engineers and technologists.

They have a few positions in Ottawa right now that is being handled currently by a recruitment company.
Any links to postings? I see a couple sales positions on their site in Toronto.
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Old 08-28-2013, 06:02 PM   #140
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lets see if i can find it. Not sure if it's public, I got a headhunter link....

yeah, it's a internal link so I won't be able to link you to it, however its for "Verizon Wireless 24/7 GTS Technical Support Engineer"
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Old 08-28-2013, 07:16 PM   #141
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lets see if i can find it. Not sure if it's public, I got a headhunter link....

yeah, it's a internal link so I won't be able to link you to it, however its for "Verizon Wireless 24/7 GTS Technical Support Engineer"
Ah, that job is actually for genband as a support person for Verizon from the looks of it. May still be related to all this though.
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Old 08-28-2013, 09:28 PM   #142
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I think Robelus doesnt even NEED any of the 700mhz spectrum.. They horde so much of the other spectrum that should be enough to cover at least 80% of the entire country with good enough signal.. so them sharing 2 blocks between them is fine..

I read some time ago, Rogers has the most total spectrum then any carrier in north america.. Bell/Telus combine is ranked 3rd?
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Old 09-02-2013, 01:53 PM   #143
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this BS is on TV commercials now talking about some analogy "what if someone bought half of our water" ....lmao
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Old 09-02-2013, 04:38 PM   #144
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Old 09-02-2013, 04:45 PM   #145
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this BS is on TV commercials now talking about some analogy "what if someone bought half of our water" ....lmao
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Old 09-02-2013, 07:16 PM   #146
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Ok..they can remove the annoying commercials now...

Verizon not coming to Canada: CEO | News1130


TORONTO (NEWS1130) – It looks like Verizon is not coming north of the border after all.

The CEO of Verizon says the US telecom giant had only limited interest in Canada, and it now has none.

Bloomberg reports Lowell McAdam says speculation about entering Canada was “way overblown.”

This follows the announcement that Verizon is buying the 45 per cent stake of Verizon Wireless from Britain’s Vodafone for $130 billion. But McAdam says his position on Canada has nothing to do with that deal.

The wireless industry has been in the spotlight recently, following media reports suggesting Verizon would try to enter the Canadian market. This news is expected to give the shares of Canadian telecom firms a life in trade on Tuesday.
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Old 09-02-2013, 07:37 PM   #147
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Some corporation will come out of nowhere, where we least expect, to enter the 700MHz spectrum auction prior to the application deadline.
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Old 09-02-2013, 07:45 PM   #148
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You know what? Verizon was actually just "testing waters" if you guys actually realized it. They put down an offer and say they were "interested" but all this hype was just created by the people that opposed this. Honestly I seriously think Verizon was just shitting around and testing the Canadian market/reaction when they said they would acquire Wind.

If you guys realize nothing was actually official on Verizon side. The Big 3 was just shitting bricks all this time for nothing.
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Old 09-02-2013, 09:35 PM   #149
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Verizon paid 130billion to buyout Vodafone's 49% stake in Verizon...
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Old 09-02-2013, 10:52 PM   #150
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lol i wonder how much money they spend on the bullshit commercials... all for nothing
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