It doesn't matter what the person says that made the 911 call whether or not the gun is fake. Even the 1% chance that it is a real gun the police need to act the same regardless. I would never expect a police officer to approach the situation other than to believe the gun is real. |
So even if a baby was holding a real gun, police should shoot to kill? The kid who died was 12 years old. Were you robbing banks at 12? The officer who shot the black boy commented how he thought the victim was 20 years old. I don't want anything to happen to police officers but when they sign up for the job, like joining the army, there are great risks. I expect officers to try to deescalate situations. If not, we could have drones do their jobs. |
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Police officers are trained to always assume a gun is real, because many officers have died trying to determine if it was fake or real first before acting appropriately. Maybe this is why I am not a cop. But 12 and 20 years of age are pretty difficult to tell in the dark when you're stressed and possibly panicking, I mean I was 5'6 120lbs at 12 years old... not to mention even in Vancouver, let alone more dangerous cities gangs are known to recruit kids as mules, traffickers, even dealers or decoys because they know police will hesitate. Police work is hard work, and it really sucks that the Officer in this case has to live the rest of his life facing the consequences of a split-second decision... it's not all black and white. |
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personally, i hear on the news about how kids ranging from 13-17 are involved in more criminal behavior then every before....so not surprised a 12 year old pointing a gun at people like a Jr. Thug.... |
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You guys criticizing Tamir Rice are ridiculous... he's 12!! what were you doing at 12? probably running around your Elementary School playing cops and robbers.... You're also forgetting that Tamir Rice lives in Cleveland, Ohio where not only is it legal to own guns it's legal to Open-Carry without a license Police should have approached knowing the law because up to that point from what the police were able to observe the child did nothing wrong But even as you can see in the video the moment they charge in and jump out of the car A-Team style they've fired on him How you can go on defending that and criticizing the kid for being more responsible is :fulloffuck: |
Roughly 20 years ago when I was that age 12 year olds weren't committing murder and being sentenced as adults in the prison system. Times change so your comparison is ridiculous. A 12 year old is more than capable of committing acts of violence and while they are not mentally capable to understand the consequences they still have the ability to make a consciousness decision to pull the trigger unlike say a baby in one of the comments above. Pretty sure an open carry law does now allow people to point the gun in public areas. So if you saw the video then you would see that the person is pointing the gun in what could be viewed as a dangerous and threatening manner. Which is the reason why multiple people called 911. Had no one been scared, threatened or worried by his actions then the police would not have been notified. |
regardless of reports there have been countless reports in separate instances of people carrying guns out in the open (look at youtube) people can and do exaggerate their fears to 911 so police consider the reports but ultimately they go into a scene and assess what they observe, the kid didn't even have the gun in the open at the time of police arrival and they should know that citizens are allowed to open-carry even without a license so if they were responsible they do not go in guns blazing it's the reasonable and proper thing to do what you suggest is erratic and irresponsible! under those circumstances people could make false 911 reports (not uncommon) saying someone is waving a weapon around and have the police commit a murder for them (if we accept police to go in guns blazing as normal) |
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If you've read the story, you would know the officer is a rookie. It's outrageous that another police officer has killed an UNARMED youth. I guess most of you believe police training is adequate. |
Nancy Grace, of all people, using a bit of logic in the Michael Brown case |
You speculate that Tamir Rice was playing cops and robbers, didn't look like that to me, it looks more like he was being an idiot trying to scare people by pulling the airsoft gun on random people, he purposely removed the orange tip cap to make the gun look more real. This wasn't a bunch of kids playing cops and robbers with each other with plastic toy guns. Open carry isn't the issue, the kid reached for his waistband where the gun was, that was what got him shot. Those that open carry have to keep their firearms holstered, not aiming the firearm at people and don't go reaching for it when confronted by police officers. Yea its tragic and maybe the kid reacted out of shock instinctively reaching for his waistband/gun or maybe he is just an idiot looking for trouble, but reaching for/towards the gun is what got him shot. |
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the issue, for me, is how the officers entered the situation as it induces irrational behaviour from all parties |
Tamir Rice being 12 years old to me has no bearing on anything. It is not uncommon to see individuals younger than 18 in the US with firearms especially in certain neighborhoods, and no this is not just a black thing, take a trip to the LA metro area and you will come across many "children" involved in criminal activity with firearms, Asian ones in San Gabriel, Mexican ones in East LA, etc... Again, keep in mind Tamir Rice in this case purposely removed the orange tip cap to make his airsoft gun appear real and he wasn't playing around with himself or friends, he was pointing and waving the gun at random people, a 12 year old knows enough to know this isn't playing. After the officers approach, it didn't matter if they thought Tamir Rice was 30, 20 or 12 years old, as soon as the subject reached towards/for the gun, the officer had to respond. The thing I will agree on with you is that the tactical approach taken by these officers was poor. The approach shown on the video/series of still images would be one responding to an active shooter where the intent was to subdue or eliminate the threat, providing a resolution quickly. The officers in this case will need to explain why they perceived the subject as an active threat and chose that method of approach. All in all this appears to be a tragic series of decisions made by all parties. |
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I'm not sure what relevance the officer being a rookie is supposed to have. |
the officer's mistake was driving right up to the kid.. why would you ever drive right up to someone who could have a gun? Putting yourself in close quarters immediately limits your options. Surely he could have stopped a bit further back to warn the kid or assess the situation better. However, since he did drive up to the kid, the kid had a million options, the worst of which is to reach for his gun.. for that, the cop had no choice but to shoot. My 5 year old nephew knows what guns are, and definitely knows that when an officer approaches you, you go on your best behaviour. To insinuate that a 12yo wouldn't know any better seems to demonstrate a clear ignorance on how much a 12yo can know and perceive about situations. |
Did you not read my comment? If the operator had told the officer the gun may be fake do you think a seasoned officer would still shoot within 2 seconds of arriving? Please watch at 27s: Based on your logic, if police were to respond to a call at a paintball or lazer tag arena then there would be a massacre. Would you shoot if you were the officer? I cannot reason with you if you would. I think cops are trained to be cowards now. They take zero risks. They shoot first and ask questions later. I'm not sure about you but I want officers to be peace officers and not war officers. |
Easy for everyone to sit here, in their comfy ass chairs and point fingers.. I'm personally saying that if ANYONE pointed a gun at me, I'm not thinking even for A SECOND. I'm defending my self and going home to see my family. That's what officers are trained to do. There is no way in hell I'd risk my life to see if this kid's gun was real or fake. If this 12 year old doesn't have the common sense to not take out a weapon, that is real or fake, in front of a cop, then I'm worried about what life holds in the future. |
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Which is better: the cop takes the caller's opinion into consideration and still proceeds as if it's a real gun, the kid points the gun at the cop, and is shot for that action? Or the cop takes the caller at his word, assumes it's a fake gun, and gets shot the minute he steps out of his car? Or the cop takes the caller at his word, proceeds as if it's a fake gun... it turns out it's not and some innocent bystander gets shot because the cop didn't take the gunman down when he had the chance? "To serve and PROTECT" means to protect EVERYONE, not just the guy waving a gun around and being threatening. The cop MUST proceed with the public safety foremost in mind, or he's not doing his job. |
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Whenever a gun is involved I'll side with the police for shooting someone. The sad part is, replace that kids gun with a baseball bat in that video and watch it play out the same way, and some people here will still side with the cops. |
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