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-   Vancouver Off-Topic / Current Events (https://www.revscene.net/forums/vancouver-off-topic-current-events_50/)
-   -   The mess in Ferguson - Murder of Michael Brown by police (https://www.revscene.net/forums/697475-mess-ferguson-murder-michael-brown-police.html)

4444 08-19-2014 03:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bouncing Bettys (Post 8518509)
Didn't the police initially say Brown was shot from around 35ft away from the police car which was in close proximity to the officer as he fired? Seems odd he felt he had no other options than a kill shot to the head if Brown wasn't within a few feet of him.
information will come out in due course, i hope.

note i used the term 'information' not 'the truth' as i don't think the truth will ever be fully transparent in this one

quasi 08-19-2014 06:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bouncing Bettys (Post 8518509)
Didn't the police initially say Brown was shot from around 35ft away from the police car which was in close proximity to the officer as he fired? Seems odd he felt he had no other options than a kill shot to the head if Brown wasn't within a few feet of him.
They aim center mass, it;s not like every cop is a perfect marksman and shoots his gun on a daily basis. I wasn't there but if I had to guess the head shots would have been the last shots because the target would have dropped.

underscore 08-19-2014 07:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bouncing Bettys (Post 8518509)
Didn't the police initially say Brown was shot from around 35ft away from the police car which was in close proximity to the officer as he fired? Seems odd he felt he had no other options than a kill shot to the head if Brown wasn't within a few feet of him.
That's assuming that the shot to the head was intended to hit him there, obviously they're going to aim center of mass for accuracy but after a struggle, wearing gear and with a moving target I'd say hitting someones head could be as much of a fluke as anything. Either way, if he's shooting he's most likely shooting to kill (ie stop completely), in which case does it matter much where he was hit?

underscore 08-19-2014 08:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 68style (Post 8518480)
That's a pretty stupid claim to make, why would a police force train its members how to get out of illegal situations they become involved in.

You might know ways to get around loopholes from administering those laws as part of the job... but they definitely don't train you how to fuck around when you fuck up. Nobody likes a fuckup and there are fuckups in every single profession in the world -- policing included. Probably a lot less % wise than most professions though, but it doesn't make newspaper headlines when an office worker orders the wrong grade of paper for the photocopier does it? You try doing your job every day full of random incidents constantly under scrutiny of a million bosses (supervisors, public, media) and see how you like it when every single thing you do is questioned from every possible angle.
They released the stats for Canadian police a while back and the % of "fuckups" by the Canadian police was extremely low. Assuming most people do 90-95% of their job correctly (and a lot of people do much less), they'd still be in the bottom percentile of Canadian police officers if they were cops instead.

Manic! 08-19-2014 11:01 AM
Another shooting in Ferguson/St Louis. Guy was shoplifting and had a knife. Cops shot and killed him. On CNN right now.

Vale46Rossi 08-19-2014 11:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manic! (Post 8518586)
Another shooting in Ferguson/St Louis. Guy was shoplifting and had a knife. Cops shot and killed him. On CNN right now.
more and more of these stories are coming out.

7seven 08-19-2014 11:46 AM
Quote:
ST. LOUIS - A man has been shot and killed by police Tuesday afternoon in north St. Louis, reports CBS affiliate KMOV.

Authorities confirmed that police were involved in a shooting that left one man dead around 12:30 p.m., according to the station. Police said the man was a 23-year-old accused of stealing muffins and energy drinks from a local store.

St. Louis Police Chief Sam Dotson said in a tweet that the suspect was brandishing a knife at the time of the shooting, according to KMOV. Witnesses said he was acting erratically.

Two officers at the scene reportedly asked the suspect to put down the weapon. Police said he yelled, "Shoot me now, shoot me now" before charging the officers with the knife, and was then fatally shot by two police officers.

A local alderman previously told CBS News that police said the victim was black.

An employee at a nearby market told the station that the incident took place outside the Six Stars Market along Riverview Blvd.

KMOV reports that no officers were injured in the shooting.

The fatal shooting occurred approximately four miles from the deadly officer-involved shooting of 18-year-old Michael Brown ten days ago in Ferguson, Mo.

© 2014 CBS Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Cops: Man brandishing knife shot dead by St. Louis police - CBS News

RRxtar 08-19-2014 11:48 AM
Apparently he was approaching the officer aggressively with the knife overhead in a position with intent to stab and was shot 4 feet from the officer.

Surely he was an upstanding kid who had his hands up to surrender also.



Want to not get shot by a cop? Don't be a fucking idiot

4444 08-19-2014 11:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7seven (Post 8518599)
If the local ppl make this a white vs black thing, I'm certain they'd have done the same thing if it were a white cracker with a knife charging them.

I know there are racial problems, but this is not an example of that

Happy 08-19-2014 04:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 68style (Post 8518480)
That's a pretty stupid claim to make, why would a police force train its members how to get out of illegal situations they become involved in.
"Judge Janice Dillon of the B.C. Supreme Court ruled that drinking the vodka was a deliberate act to mislead the crash investigation, noting the veteran's RCMP training taught him that drinking booze afterwards could potentially mask the alcohol he drank earlier in the night."

No jail time for former RCMP officer Monty Robinson, convicted of obstruction

I don't care that he's a cop. All I'm saying is that after he hit the person, he should have stayed at the scene and called an ambulance..

You know what the family of the deceased person got out of all of this, is a letter of apology from Robinson, do you think that's justice?

RRxtar 08-19-2014 05:02 PM
I might be reading that differently than you...

But to me that reads like "Thru his RCMP training, he learned that suspects might drink booze after a drunk driving accident to cover up being drunk during the accident"

not

"RCMP officers are trained to get drunk after they are involved in drunk driving accidents so they can hide the fact they were drunk when the accident occurred"

hchang 08-19-2014 05:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy (Post 8518707)
"Judge Janice Dillon of the B.C. Supreme Court ruled that drinking the vodka was a deliberate act to mislead the crash investigation, noting the veteran's RCMP training taught him that drinking booze afterwards could potentially mask the alcohol he drank earlier in the night."

No jail time for former RCMP officer Monty Robinson, convicted of obstruction

I don't care that he's a cop. All I'm saying is that after he hit the person, he should have stayed at the scene and called an ambulance..

You know what the family of the deceased person got out of all of this, is a letter of apology from Robinson, do you think that's justice?
Sure the actions of the officer may not have been morally correct, but when shit goes down isn't your primal instinct damage control and how to cover your own ass?

It's easy sitting behind a keyboard and making that decision sober but when shit goes down you only have so long to make up your mind and live by it.

BrRsn 08-20-2014 07:48 PM
Anyone know the backstory to this?


fastforward to about 1:30

guy is wielding a gun, starts walking towards cops, gets laid out ... then near the end of the vid the guy filming remarks: "Why wouldn't you use a taser .. damn". As if a cop is going to use a taser on a guy with a gun, to give him enough time to line up the shot and kill the cop.

My guess is that people are starting to think they can test/provoke the police without repercussions after the recent ferguson incidents, or the guy just wanted to die

Ronin 08-20-2014 08:29 PM
Yeah, I'm okay with the video above. I don't see a gun but the video isn't great (vertical video...) so I'll take your word for it that he had one. If he had a gun out, he's a threat so the cops should have their guns out and pointed at him. He keeps moving towards the police despite repeated warnings so they did what they had to do.

That's just stupidity that got that guy killed. Steal a couple sodas? You'll get a slap on the wrist. Have a gun on you? Probably not a lot of time unless you've already got a couple strikes. He decided to test the cops instead and got his ass killed.

Ronin 08-20-2014 08:56 PM
Ugh, I cannot handle these YouTube comments. "Why didn't they shoot him in the foot?" "Why didn't they shoot the knife out of his hand?"

If something is a threat, keep shooting center mass until it stops moving. If the options are killing a man that's threatening to kill you or possibly just wounding a man coming at you with a knife drawn, then you kill the guy.

parm104 08-20-2014 09:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhillon09 (Post 8519236)
Anyone know the backstory to this?

Powell Shooting Cell Phone Camera - YouTube

guy is wielding a gun, starts walking towards cops, gets laid out ... then near the end of the vid the guy filming remarks: "Why wouldn't you use a taser .. damn". As if a cop is going to use a taser on a guy with a gun, to give him enough time
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin (Post 8519255)
Yeah, I'm okay with the video above. I don't see a gun but the video isn't great (vertical video...) so I'll take your word for it that he had one. If he had a gun out, he's a threat so the cops should have their guns out and pointed at him. He keeps moving towards the police despite repeated warnings so they did what they had to do.
Not that it really makes a difference but he's not "wielding a gun," but he is apparently holding a knife. They fought a deadly weapon with a deadly weapon...In the civilian world, the law would see this as a just fight, I'm sure.

stewie 08-20-2014 09:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin (Post 8519266)
Ugh, I cannot handle these YouTube comments. "Why didn't they shoot him in the foot?" "Why didn't they shoot the knife out of his hand?"

If something is a threat, keep shooting center mass until it stops moving. If the options are killing a man that's threatening to kill you or possibly just wounding a man coming at you with a knife drawn, then you kill the guy.
Kid was a beast.


It's like trying to take down a charging rhino with a 9mm pistol and expecting it to drop on the first shot...

classified 08-20-2014 09:34 PM
lol iunno if u guys listened with headphones or not but u hear the guy who got shot yelling shoot me, shoot me shoot me mafka and then starts walking closer to the cops...

StylinRed 08-21-2014 04:07 AM
a video was shown this morning of an officer trying to disperse a crowd of protesters..he did so by pointing his rifle at the crowd and threatening that he could kill them :crazy2: a senior officer came and told him to lower his weapon

apparently the gun pointing officer has been suspended indefinitely

underscore 08-21-2014 07:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin (Post 8519266)
Ugh, I cannot handle these YouTube comments. "Why didn't they shoot him in the foot?" "Why didn't they shoot the knife out of his hand?"

If something is a threat, keep shooting center mass until it stops moving. If the options are killing a man that's threatening to kill you or possibly just wounding a man coming at you with a knife drawn, then you kill the guy.
Good luck hitting a moving targets hand on the first try while simultaneously checking behind him to ensure there's no collateral damage.

CorneringArtist 08-21-2014 08:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin (Post 8519266)
Ugh, I cannot handle these YouTube comments. "Why didn't they shoot him in the foot?" "Why didn't they shoot the knife out of his hand?"

If something is a threat, keep shooting center mass until it stops moving. If the options are killing a man that's threatening to kill you or possibly just wounding a man coming at you with a knife drawn, then you kill the guy.
Wasn't there a (one-sided) argument started by a certain someone regarding this exact subject before :troll:?

ScizzMoney 08-21-2014 08:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by underscore (Post 8519399)
Good luck hitting a moving targets hand on the first try while simultaneously checking behind him to ensure there's no collateral damage.
But I do it in Call of Duty easy
:drunk:

MaaaadMan 08-21-2014 03:46 PM
Apparently they didn't watch this video

Happy 08-22-2014 04:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hchang (Post 8518710)
Sure the actions of the officer may not have been morally correct, but when shit goes down isn't your primal instinct damage control and how to cover your own ass?

It's easy sitting behind a keyboard and making that decision sober but when shit goes down you only have so long to make up your mind and live by it.
well we should agree to disagree. If I hit someone and kill them, my primal instinct isn't to run away. It's gonna be to stay at the scene and help the poor guy that's dying.

That mentality is so fucked up. He shouldn't have even been driving in the first place

hchang 08-23-2014 08:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy (Post 8520007)
well we should agree to disagree. If I hit someone and kill them, my primal instinct isn't to run away. It's gonna be to stay at the scene and help the poor guy that's dying.

That mentality is so fucked up. He shouldn't have even been driving in the first place
You never know what you'll do until you're put in that situation.


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