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Old 06-01-2016, 04:41 PM   #9101
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Regarding the comparison to Seguin and McCann and their shitty attitudes. Personally I think it's a shitty reason to move a player. If I were building a roster, I would rather have 20 skilled players with shitty attitudes who "don't jive in the locker room" than 20 players who are sweethearts looking to make friends with everyone.
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Old 06-01-2016, 04:48 PM   #9102
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Not that simple IMO. coaches have to get players to commit to their system. Hockey is very much a systems game nowadays. When some/all players think the coach's system sucks, they can still be playing their best but the teams cohesion falls apart and you're likely to be beaten by a lesser team following the systems. Look at the turn Pittsburgh made this year for example after a coaching change. Does Crosby want to be told to play more defense, not skate as much, pass more, etc etc?
You put 20 primadonnas in the room and you have 20 players playing for themselves. They're not a team.

Oilers can tank and take all the first round draft picks they want. Still doesn't mean they're good with all the potential in the world.
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Old 06-01-2016, 05:20 PM   #9103
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So if your cocky, a wiener, a partyer, a bad sportsman or have a bad attitude you can't play for the canucks. Basically I described every NHL superstar in this league. (Crosby, Kane, Seguin, Lucic, Carter ect..) This is why we ain't winning shit ever. All our players gotta live up to the sedin standard
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Old 06-01-2016, 06:21 PM   #9104
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Quote:
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Regarding the comparison to Seguin and McCann and their shitty attitudes. Personally I think it's a shitty reason to move a player. If I were building a roster, I would rather have 20 skilled players with shitty attitudes who "don't jive in the locker room" than 20 players who are sweethearts looking to make friends with everyone.
You must not be old enough to remember the NYR presalary cap. They would buy all the best free agents and miss the playoffs every single years because although they had talented players they were a group of individuals. Teamwork is more important then talent in most scenarios.

Talent in sports like baseball where you're playing more as an individual or basketball where your playing insane minutes can account for a lot more.
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Old 06-01-2016, 06:21 PM   #9105
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At the end of the day, these pro athletes will be remembered by how many championships they have under their belt. No one will give a shit that X player was nice and sincere if they haven't accomplished anything. It's only a bonus if they're a nice guy.
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Old 06-01-2016, 07:03 PM   #9106
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We're debating over extremes. Everything needs a balance. Obviously a team full of "angels" aren't getting you anywhere. And a team full of primadonna's aren't gonna get you anywhere either.
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Old 06-01-2016, 10:33 PM   #9107
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So if your cocky, a wiener, a partyer, a bad sportsman or have a bad attitude you can't play for the canucks. Basically I described every NHL superstar in this league. (Crosby, Kane, Seguin, Lucic, Carter ect..) This is why we ain't winning shit ever. All our players gotta live up to the sedin standard
Are you saying Hodgson, Kassian and McCann are in the same league as those guys? If your players are good enough you try to get them to buy in to your system. Canucks put up with kesler as long as they did, all the way until he demanded to leave. If your players aren't good enough to be worth the effort, you move them while they still have some value. If you wait till you can definitively judge that they suck, guess what you've just wasted that asset because nobody else will be willing to pay for your sloppy seconds.

As crappy as some of JB's trades have seemed so far, none of the prospects he's given away has turned out to be really anything, yet, or ever. So who knows
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Old 06-01-2016, 11:04 PM   #9108
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McCann was 19. You don't trade away 19 year olds with offensive upside because of "attitude" problems after 1 year of being pro.

That said, Canucks didn't exactly get fleeced because Gudbranson has the potential to be that defensive rock we've always lacked though that 2nd round still stings. People will say there was no roster space for McCann but he was probably AHL bound.

The Seguin trade showed that while Benning may be a good scout, he's shitty at pretty much anything else. I just hope this trade doesn't follow the same route that Boston trade went.
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Old 06-02-2016, 05:35 AM   #9109
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Although Gudbrandson is a proven defensive d-man, ultimately for what he gave up to get him just isn't worth it. For some reason Benning loves to trade away our possible potential for guaranteed mediocrity.
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Old 06-02-2016, 07:15 AM   #9110
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Are you saying Hodgson, Kassian and McCann are in the same league as those guys? If your players are good enough you try to get them to buy in to your system. Canucks put up with kesler as long as they did, all the way until he demanded to leave. If your players aren't good enough to be worth the effort, you move them while they still have some value. If you wait till you can definitively judge that they suck, guess what you've just wasted that asset because nobody else will be willing to pay for your sloppy seconds.

As crappy as some of JB's trades have seemed so far, none of the prospects he's given away has turned out to be really anything, yet, or ever. So who knows
We traded 2 former 1st round picks in the first year of their ELCs ...

We have no idea how good they'll be yet. One of them led our AHL team in goals despite being traded 2 months before the end of the season. The other played a full NHL season at 19 (though I'd argue he shouldn't have).

We finished last in goal differential by a mile with roughly league average goaltending. We need offensive production and we traded away 2 kids who have the potential to be very good in that regard.

Hodgson and Kassian were much further into their careers and considerably bigger problems than McCann and Shinkaruk.
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Old 06-02-2016, 08:32 AM   #9111
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^ if we are adding 50 goals scorer in stamkos, no problem!!! Lol
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Old 06-02-2016, 08:39 AM   #9112
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Dim Jim be like
FT: Future potential and high picks for John Weisbrod favorites, Flams outcast, mediocre players, Medicine Hat Tigers Alumni or anyone who's played at some point in the Florida organization.

Must be in good condition and have good attitude.


Kinda hope Dim Jim (and WD) gets fired this season, I don't think I can stomach another season of questionable deals and contracts and the persistence to keep playing shit players like Vey and Bartkowski
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Old 06-02-2016, 08:59 AM   #9113
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Dim Jim be like
FT: Future potential and high picks for John Weisbrod favorites, Flams outcast, mediocre players, Medicine Hat Tigers Alumni or anyone who's played at some point in the Florida organization.

Must be in good condition and have good attitude.


Kinda hope Dim Jim (and WD) gets fired this season, I don't think I can stomach another season of questionable deals and contracts and the persistence to keep playing shit players like Vey and Bartkowski

Fire Dim Jim, or if he can accept a demotion, remain with the organization as a scout. Fire Willy too.

A proper rebuild for this team would be to hire a GM who is good at both drafting and trading players. A guy who knows how to manage the player personnel properly.

We need a veteran coach with a proven ability to help this team get to a Stanley Cup Final. Somebody who is not Torts.

If Pittsburgh wins the Stanley Cup this year, many GMs in the league as usual will try to copy the Pens blueprint to build a championship contender.

The blueprint would be loading up on players with offensive skill and tonnes of speed. Fast skaters like the Pittsburgh forwards. Add some player depth on your third and fourth lines with some muscle and the ability to play lockdown defence in the playoffs. Make sure your centres are good at faceoffs and puck possession. Add a good goalie who can make timely saves. Build a big defence that is both mobile in terms of skating and the ability to make quick outlet passes to the forwards.
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Old 06-02-2016, 10:00 AM   #9114
 
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you might as well start saving for the 500million expansion fee. cuz those aren't happening.

heres what you will probably get, unless theres more trades, or he gets lucic/Eriksson under 6mil per year.

sedin-sedin-eriksson
lucic-sutter-rodin
baer-horvat-hansen
gaunce-granlund-dorsett

tanev-edler
hutton-gud
tryamkin-larsen
biega
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Old 06-02-2016, 10:14 AM   #9115
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i wanna see em take a run at Boedker or Okposo

i'd prefer em over Lucic or Eriksson tbh
Eriksson is a little too old to get a big, long contract that he'll be looking for
Lucic has too many miles on him and unless he wants to sign for a bit less, he's honestly not worth long-term big money. Plus it looks like he's pretty happy in LA.
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Old 06-02-2016, 11:01 AM   #9116
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Okposo and Brouwer atleast give the sedins some fun before retiring

bouwer to mentor virtanen?
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Old 06-02-2016, 11:05 AM   #9117
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bouwer to mentor virtanen?
rather have Lucic as a mentor for Virts
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Old 06-02-2016, 12:19 PM   #9118
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I like brouwers game plus said he has interest in coming to van. All depends on what management is thinking. As for boedker isnt he another centre? if not I wouldnt mind him either guy his pretty decent plus still young and fast. The question is if canucks are going to make more trades to try in recoup picks? Maybe hansen gets dealt for some pics and they pick up brouwer in FA since he can do the same things hansen can do but isnt as fast...
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Old 06-02-2016, 12:26 PM   #9119
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Boedker is a LW iirc
has the potential to be a 30 goal scorer imo, maybe the honeybadger can teach him a thing or two to elevate his game
then make a swing for Lars Eller and make an all-Danish line lol

Crazy how Lucic is only a year older but it seems like he's been around for longer
i'd rather keep Hansen and his low cap hit over Brouwer
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Old 06-02-2016, 12:34 PM   #9120
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^if JB wants to recoup picks he will have to trade hansen for maybe 2nd and a 3rd...but knowing JB he will probably only get a 3rd and give up a pick in the trade lol. I wouldnt mind eller which would probably should have gotten in the kassian deal instead of that bust of a player in prust.
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Old 06-02-2016, 01:07 PM   #9121
 
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Hansen shouldn't be traded. for a bottom 6 player that contributes like him, at his price tag, unless you are getting a good prospect+ or a 1st+ its not worth it. too valuable to the team and overall cap

look at the mistake nyi just did that will fuck them over. 4c for 5years 16.75mil avg is 3.35mil
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Old 06-02-2016, 01:44 PM   #9122
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^like dorsett
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Old 06-02-2016, 01:56 PM   #9123
 
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except if you consider that 4th line which was one of their best all year also has clutterbuck at 2.85mil and matt martin (ufa) who will want the same or more as cizikas.

more than a 9mil 4th line if they keep them all
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Old 06-02-2016, 01:58 PM   #9124
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their 4th line is pretty solid but way too expensive for all those guys...
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Old 06-02-2016, 02:06 PM   #9125
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it's good to see another team other than the Canucks overpay for plugs

on the downside though, will this increase the overall price of plugs around the league? Might end up setting precedence in negotiations and driving the overall price for mediocre players.
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