Electric and Hybrid Car Thread

[whitev70r]

^ There was a recent article comparing EV and ICE cost, and one often overlooked cost is time. Time waiting for charging in the best of cases (ie. show up at a charging station and no one is in line) to the worst case scenario (as above, 4 hrs) ... and everything in between. Eg. waiting 30 mins and charging for 40 mins. Plus, they added the extra routing which is needed sometimes to get to a charging station on a long road trip.

But time is the most precious if you ask me. Hidden cost of EV ownership if you don't have a home charger.

[JDMDreams]

Yea I've always wondered how the condo guys do it, but I guess they can still do phev. All the ppl I know who own EV has charging at home. But then most newer condos are looking into setting up EV charging in the parking if they don't have it already.

[VR6GTI]

Anyone here own a Mach e? I’ve been looking for awhile and doesn’t seem like my prime will ever show up. Not that it’s a bad thing I think, Im thinking EV is the way to go now. I’ve talked to a few owners and they say it’s the best vehicle they have ever owned but most people say that about anything they just bought.

[M Speed]

Originally Posted by whitev70r

^ There was a recent article comparing EV and ICE cost, and one often overlooked cost is time. Time waiting for charging in the best of cases (ie. show up at a charging station and no one is in line) to the worst case scenario (as above, 4 hrs) ... and everything in between. Eg. waiting 30 mins and charging for 40 mins. Plus, they added the extra routing which is needed sometimes to get to a charging station on a long road trip.

But time is the most precious if you ask me. Hidden cost of EV ownership if you don't have a home charger.

Do ICE drivers factor in time spend at the pump/lineup? The routing cost (fuel, time, wear and tear etc)? Yes the line moves quicker but ICE also visit the pump one or more a week?

Now majority of EV owners charge at home. The vehicle sits idle, so there is zero opportunity cost. Now factor in if one go on a road trip once a year and wait for a DCFC, it may still be spending less time to keep it running.

Now visit to mechanic is way less on EV. So that's another win.

[whitev70r]

True ... the time you save for not going for oil change must be a big win. I don't EV so only those of you who does EV will know about time difference. The situation where it is the worst is someone who doesn't have a charger at home and rely on public ones (owners of older condo owners or renters).

The only gas station that you have to line up is at 12th and Commercial, that one is a zoo. And whenever the gov't decides to ration ... then the crazies get out their jerry cans.

[JDMDreams]

Yea but you're spending like $80+ a pop every time you fill up. That's like a decent dinner, it especially hurts if it's just for a beater that you're commuting in. Not even premium for any toy fun cars for a drive.

[SumAznGuy]

Originally Posted by whitev70r

True ... the time you save for not going for oil change must be a big win. I don't EV so only those of you who does EV will know about time difference. The situation where it is the worst is someone who doesn't have a charger at home and rely on public ones (owners of older condo owners or renters).

The only gas station that you have to line up is at 12th and Commercial, that one is a zoo. And whenever the gov't decides to ration ... then the crazies get out their jerry cans.

In the beginning, there would be lineups and fights at DCFC cause people want to get their cars up to 100% charge. Now that most DCFC's are pay by the minute, people are starting to be smarter.

Give it some more time, and every car should have 400 km of range and the ability to use faster chargers.

Biggest thing the government can do is invest more money in the charging infrastructure vs giving rebates to people to buy said cars.
If you do it organically, you'll need more EV's and less ICE cars on the road before gas stations make the switch to selling electricity instead of gas.

[twitchyzero]

i do my own oil changes annually, with a valve most of them dont even need jacking up

seems kinda crazy to own EV without plugging at home

[Hehe]

Originally Posted by dark0821

^ if the 3rd party pack can still take advantage of the super charger network, then that is a huge win

cant imagine trying to charge 200 kwh at home... lolol even with a level 2 charger, you charge at maybe 5-6kwh/hr

If you have enough amperage, the older Tesla wall charger can pull 80A from the box (100A breaker), giving you about 19kwh... although the fastest a Tesla can pull is 72A so far IIRC.

[Y2K_o__o]

Originally Posted by M Speed

Do ICE drivers factor in time spend at the pump/lineup? The routing cost (fuel, time, wear and tear etc)? Yes the line moves quicker but ICE also visit the pump one or more a week?

Now majority of EV owners charge at home. The vehicle sits idle, so there is zero opportunity cost. Now factor in if one go on a road trip once a year and wait for a DCFC, it may still be spending less time to keep it running.

Now visit to mechanic is way less on EV. So that's another win.

I used to be the guy who wasn't very convinced about the EV thing until I sold two of my ICE vehicles for a used import Soul EV (150km range) and a new model 3 SR+

I got the soul EV import for dirt cheap as an A-to-B commute vehicle while a model 3 is a weekend family vehicle. The convenience and maintenance cost totally changes the way I see EV. I still keep my M3 as a summer car, but if I drive this all year long, fuel and oil change alone are going to cost me $5k annually easily with the current premium gas price $2/L

With the gas price keep hitting record high, fuel shortage, I don't regret at all even though I paid a higher purchase price up front.

[6thGear.]

We're looking to replace my wife's Fiat with a more family friendly vehicle and we're considering the Model Y. I was told it's a 1 year wait ?? Is this due to the processor chip shortage issue?

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by 6thGear.

We're looking to replace my wife's Fiat with a more family friendly vehicle and we're considering the Model Y. I was told it's a 1 year wait ?? Is this due to the processor chip shortage issue?

I think it's got to do with demand.

[M Speed]

It's a combination of both chip shortage and high demand.

Had you look at ioniq5? Good bang for the buck but doesn't have the Tesla charging infrastructure.

[6thGear.]

Originally Posted by M Speed

It's a combination of both chip shortage and high demand.

Had you look at ioniq5? Good bang for the buck but doesn't have the Tesla charging infrastructure.

Honestly I haven't looked at any as we just started to consider replacing her car. She really liked the Y after she sat in her friends. Honestly it's what she wants really. Unfortunate for us I don't think we want to wait a year to replace her car as we're running out of room already in the only capable car which is my S4

[68style]

I'm not gonna argue that electrics aren't the way to go (eventually)... but what's the obsession with brand new cars?

I haven't owned a new car since 2000 and I'm just fine. My newest car I even own now is 17 years old.

It's way way way cheaper for anyone talking about saving money being a priority Insurance is half the price too.

[Great68]

You just made me realize that the only car I've ever bought new in my life is now 13 years old

Good point about the insurance on the older car though, just got my renewal notice. $920, and that's with business use and 5 mil liability.

[6thGear.]

Originally Posted by 68style

I'm not gonna argue that electrics aren't the way to go (eventually)... but what's the obsession with brand new cars?

I haven't owned a new car since 2000 and I'm just fine. My newest car I even own now is 17 years old.

It's way way way cheaper for anyone talking about saving money being a priority Insurance is half the price too.

My wife's fiat was her first new car bought in 2010. Prior to that she's own a couple old cars. Her Fiat is fine minus a few repairs the past couple years. But now there's 2 gasket leaks and the car is kinda useless especially with a 16 month old in tow. My S4 is going onto 8 years now but I'm not really looking to trade her in cause I still love driving it but when we go out his stroller and extras already take up half the trunk. Then there's my emergency kit/hand tools and a couple extras in a trunk organizer box and I'm left with 25% left of trunk space. A trip to superstore and I'm packing groceries onto the front seat.

Sure used cars are more economical but man I barely have time to clean/wash my car let alone doing diy maintenance. Even when I drop my car off at RPI service they don't always have a courtesy car for me. Enter a new car, Stealership costs and available courtesy car every time. Just the price for convenience

[68style]

Well, not to pick, but both your cars are not shining examples of ownership costs and reliability haha

I have a 2004 Lexus IS300 as my main daily for the last 7 years... 140,000kms up to 230,000kms now... and it's spent precisely zero days in any shop besides the bare minimum of oil changes and brakes... If I had a kid it wouldn't be big enough, small trunk, tiny back seat leg room... but even then I would just change to an old RX350 or something similar.

Some indie shops do have loaners too... DC Motorworks is one that I sometimes use and they have loaner cars. I would never bother him for one and just eat the day that something is getting done... but they are out there.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by 6thGear.

My S4 is going onto 8 years now but I'm not really looking to trade her in cause I still love driving it but when we go out his stroller and extras already take up half the trunk. Then there's my emergency kit/hand tools and a couple extras in a trunk organizer box and I'm left with 25% left of trunk space. A trip to superstore and I'm packing groceries onto the front seat.

Take the emergency kit + hand tools out unless you are doing an out-of-town trip. If you are only going to Superstore, you can afford to take the risk of getting stranded by a vehicle breakdown. And voila~ You have 1/2 the trunk available for groceries.

[Great68]

For me, buying new vs used would totally depend on the type of car.

I'd never buy something like my Speed 3 used. The person that buys that type of car off the lot is going to drive it hard (I know I did/do), and also has a higher likelihood of modding the car.

But for a regular old commuting appliance car or truck, meh used is fine.

[68style]

^ Agreed... it would have to be a particularly immaculate example somewhere farther into its age and a very careful assessment of the owner's personality.

[Hehe]

Originally Posted by 68style

I'm not gonna argue that electrics aren't the way to go (eventually)... but what's the obsession with brand new cars?

I haven't owned a new car since 2000 and I'm just fine. My newest car I even own now is 17 years old.

It's way way way cheaper for anyone talking about saving money being a priority Insurance is half the price too.

Think buying an EV as you'd buy a new phone. When you are done with your 5yrs old iPhone 8, do you go out and buy another iPhone 8 that still works or you get a new/slightly used iPhone 13?

The thing about EV is that it's closer to your smartphone than your ICE car in term of the engineering put into it. And newer models (at least speaking from a Tesla perspective) has the latest bells and whistles that's not just new, but better and more efficient in every measurement.

And we aren't talking about luxury touches here and there. But actual stuff (the octa-valve of newer Model 3/Ys, newer car entertainment system that works a lot faster) that makes the car better (with octa-valve, the car suffers less battery loss in cold weather, for example).

In my own case, I got a brand new Model 3 first, and then ordered the Cybertruck and got rid of our last ICE car because covid. Then we realize one car just wasn't cutting it after re-opening, so we got a used Model X to get by until CT gets here. Why didn't I just opt for a new Model Y? Because we needed more space than Model Y could offer. But the convenience of an EV, at least in our day to day commute, it's something we can't go back.

Our car expense went from easily breaking 1000 in gas every month, to 700 with the house's hydro wrap into. And I'm not exactly living in a small house either. That's over 500 a month in saving considering we moved from a smaller house to a bigger house. Not to mention all the car maintenance I used to pay every year.

[6thGear.]

Originally Posted by 68style

Well, not to pick, but both your cars are not shining examples of ownership costs and reliability haha

I have a 2004 Lexus IS300 as my main daily for the last 7 years... 140,000kms up to 230,000kms now... and it's spent precisely zero days in any shop besides the bare minimum of oil changes and brakes... If I had a kid it wouldn't be big enough, small trunk, tiny back seat leg room... but even then I would just change to an old RX350 or something similar.

Some indie shops do have loaners too... DC Motorworks is one that I sometimes use and they have loaner cars. I would never bother him for one and just eat the day that something is getting done... but they are out there.

If mine was the B8 then yes I'd be shitting bricks lol. Luckily B8.5 has resolved a lot of issues. I also don't drive like I stole it *knock on wood* so far it's been good to me. My wife's been ok considering it's a Fiat lol. But it did have it's transmission linkage cable snap in October thankfully I Googled and it was a recall issue covered under warranty. Honestly I could care less about plug in EV's let alone Teslas. There's also no standard plugs near my stall unless I run a 20 ft extension or I pay for EV plug to be rewired and installed at my stall. Last cost I heard was $8k but maybe cost has come downing? I'm open to hybrids though which was what I looked into last year.

I've also stuck with RPI since my hockey buddy left and I've gotten to know the owner Warren a lot more. They just know my car and that gives me a piece of mind

Originally Posted by Traum

Take the emergency kit + hand tools out unless you are doing an out-of-town trip. If you are only going to Superstore, you can afford to take the risk of getting stranded by a vehicle breakdown. And voila~ You have 1/2 the trunk available for groceries.

It's like you're trying to talk me OUT of buying an EV lol

[whitev70r]

Originally Posted by Hehe

Our car expense went from easily breaking 1000 in gas every month, to 700 with the house's hydro wrap into. And I'm not exactly living in a small house either. That's over 500 a month in saving considering we moved from a smaller house to a bigger house. Not to mention all the car maintenance I used to pay every year.

What if you included monthly car payments, what would be the difference then?

I realize the monthly car maintenance is going significantly down but the real cost is always up-front cost to buy a new EV. Unless the other option was to get an ICE dollar for dollar, then of course EV comes out in the long run. But supposing you kept your old ICE, how long would it take to make up the difference for cash outlay for 2 new EV's?

[68style]

Well yah I mean there's no arguing it's cheaper to run a EV month to month... but you probably paid 6 figures for a used Model X as an interim car... it's kinda hard to say you saved $500 a month considering what else is available at that price point. That's an absolutely massive borderline supercar level expenditure upfront on the vehicle itself.