Electric and Hybrid Car Thread

[radeonboy]

Originally Posted by AstulzerRZD

Is it really a mirage if it’s only 10% less than the model 3?
I’m taking the average case scenario, for a car that’s received more R&D and validation than the others.

The Zeekr golden batteries are bricking and having charge rate severely limited.
He got big on social media for a bit, that all traces of that discussion mysteriously disappeared.

Actually I apologize - I mistook the Seal for the Dolphin. Stupid BYD sea creature names In that case, I agree that the Tesla is the better vehicle and don't see the value in the Seal.

I've driven a few Chinese EVs around the Tesla Model 3 / Y price range. Some things are still better with the Tesla, but cars like the 7X still have the Y beat on ride and performance. I don't know enough about the golden battery and the bricking situation, but I think there are enough people that are willing to take a gamble with the cost savings.

I'm with you on questioning Chinese OEM quality with their rapid updates from what we're used to, but sometimes the cost savings are just hard to ignore.

[AstulzerRZD]

The one thing I'm most surprised by is how quickly Africa and Latin America have switched to EVs. There seems to be no cultural issue... just an insane appetite for cheap shit from China.

[Badhobz]

Originally Posted by AstulzerRZD

There seems to be no cultural issue... just an insane appetite for cheap shit from China.

thats like any country. look at how much the US talks about chinar this and chinar that, but they dont remember any of this hatred when they walk into walmart and buy cheap shit.

[Manic!]

Chinese vacuum maker Dreame is building a factory in Europe to built this electric hypercar.
Have not seen any car in the whole world look like this.



https://carnewschina.com/2025/09/10/...ugatti-chiron/

[Badhobz]

sarcastic? front looks like the bug-gati sheee ron, and the back looks like a ferrari roma

meh

[mikemhg]

Looks like something out of Cyberpunk 2077.

[Harvey Specter]

Looks like a 4 seater variant of the Chiron, I kind of like it.

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by Badhobz

sarcastic? front looks like the bug-gati sheee ron, and the back looks like a ferrari roma

meh

What are you talking about it looks nothing like this. Plus one is a 2 door the other is a 4 door.

[Hehe]

Originally Posted by AstulzerRZD

The one thing I'm most surprised by is how quickly Africa and Latin America have switched to EVs. There seems to be no cultural issue... just an insane appetite for cheap shit from China.

LATAM is not hard to understand. Cities like CDMX, Bogota and god forbid La Paz all sits at 2000m+ elevation. ICE car takes a 20-25% hit in performance. Then enters EV where you have a lot of incentives (no duty, can drive every day... etc) that yet still has full HP figure as their spec say it has, it's no brainer.

As Elon has said before, without tariffs, Toyota, BMW, VAG, Benz... etc have almost 0 chance of surviving.

I have yet to meet a person who have gone EV and actually gone back. Yes, road trip and carrying trailers suck monkey balls with EV, but realistically, how much of that one does in a year?!

In the 5+ yrs that I have been fully EV, road trips?! I have regular bladder, and I no longer do 5hr non-stop drives. There isn't an instance where I felt ICE would be faster. I get to SC, plug in, and notification would pop up that it's ready to go before my order of double-double comes out. Heck, I have been camping with my CT and it's awesome. I can carry my full coffee gear like grinder and shit and make a serious coffee in the middle of nowhere.

We mostly need a car for usual A-B on a daily basis in the city. Having an ICE that's inferior vs. an EV in every metric in the city is only logical for people who doesn't like changes and prefer the status quo.

But it's a matter of time. Rumor has it that Canada is in discussion with China about Chinese EV. If they open the flood gate, legacy automakers have their days counted in Canada.

[bcrdukes]

I know this does not matter, but if you ever want to meet people who went to EV and back to ICE, I'd be happy to make an introduction.

[AstulzerRZD]

A lotta shit's gotta line up right for it to be a good experience.
IMO i7, Lucid Air, Mach E, and Lightning are the keepers.

The times where I pick EV is becoming less frequent for a few reasons:

1) Road trips? No one has nailed it.
- You get to pick good route planner (Tesla, GM, Ford)
- OR sub 20 minute fast charging (Taycan, Ioniq 5)

2) Around town? I like the Lightning.
- If I had a Tesla, I'd go back to hybrid because the Model Y and 3 (yes, even the Highland) ride like shit!

3) Switching jobs or homes?
- I lost free charging when I left Seattle / Amazon / Microsoft.
- Only Ford offers free charger and charger install.

4) For fun? Gas or bust... and I've driven the Ioniq 5N and Mach E Performance.

[noclue]

I made it to portland in one shot with my iX with 15% left. The thing that crosses off EV's for me for road trips is that it takes away spontaneous fun of road trips. You see a cool place to detour and check out? Oh better replan my charging stops. Unexpected traffic jam and you're sweating bullets trying to find new place to charge. Oh your hotel's charger is unexpectedly broken? Now your plans for the next day takes a huge delay.

[Hehe]

I think it has a lot to do with the lack of infrastructure.

Here, I usually don't recommend people to get EV if they have no way of installing a charger at their place. However, in China, you have a charging spot every 5 blocks in the city.

My friend lives in an apartment with no charging infrastructure. But there are so many charging spots around the city (this is in Shanghai BTW, where RE is at a premium), whenever he needs to park his car for errands, he'd just find a charging place nearby, and the 15-20min he needs in any errands is enough to put in for the next few days.

When we actually get to that point, any argument for the inconvenience of EV is BS.

[AstulzerRZD]

In the US I don’t really think about it along the coast, except SoCal.
There’s a supercharger / Electrify America station near every mall or restaurant I might stop at.

Vancouver is not bad.
Rest of Canada, not very viable for EV IMO

[bcedhk]

What do you guys think about the 2026 Lexus ES EV?

Probably one of the best cars to have for best NVH rating under 70k? That said, I do like the current gen front grill look more.

[bcrdukes]

Trust that AsultzerRZD and Badhobz will shit on it and you'll look for something else.

[AstulzerRZD]

I think it'll be best as a hybrid, the EV has several issues for anyone not using it as a city car

1) Lexus app doesn't let you pre-cool/warm cabin
2) In-car map doesn't plan charging stop for road trip
3) Carplay/Android Auto doesn't have battery info for planning charging stops
4) Terrible charge speeds (even worse than Tesla!)
5) No supercharger access

IMO the only win is rear massaging seats.
Just go buy a depreciated Lucid, i7, or EQE - they all have 8 year battery warranties anyways.

65k: https://vancouver.craigslist.org/van...877617442.html
87k (will be like 60 next year: https://vancouver.craigslist.org/van...877189159.html

[bcrdukes]

So, are you suggesting this is a mere improvement (if we can even call it that) from the bZ4X? hahaha

[AstulzerRZD]

The BZ4x got slightly improved from Bullshit to bullshit

edit: oh looks like they made it just "shit" now

- Added charging planning wiht navigation
- Added pre-conditioning
- Fast charge takes 30 mins to 80% now, not 1 fucking hour lol

Still worse than a 2021 Mach E or Ioniq.

[noclue]

I have to say, in 2020-2022 people were chanting about the death of toyota cause they barely spent on EV and stuck with hybrids/plug-ins. Now they look like master strategist as the EV trend has started to stumble.

[JDMDreams]

The i7 has grown on me. I've seen quite a few modified ix in HK I guess the i7 has more of the traditional luxury sedan look than the eqs bubble

[AstulzerRZD]

Short term, sure.
They're 1 cycle behind (4 years), not too hard to catch up.

Long term, they're going to get fucked!
They're going to be 2 cycles behind in their product cost and capability.
USA is really the only holdout on EVs - EU, Asia, and LATAM are already there.

[Hehe]

Originally Posted by AstulzerRZD

Short term, sure.
They're 1 cycle behind (4 years), not too hard to catch up.

Long term, they're going to get fucked!
They're going to be 2 cycles behind in their product cost and capability.
USA is really the only holdout on EVs - EU, Asia, and LATAM are already there.

Second this. Many people have no idea how far behind legacy automakers are.

If you have visited China lately, out of every 10 new cars you see on road or parking lot (made within the last 5yrs), 8 are probably EV or heavy PHEV (as in EV with gas range booster).

These aren't your golf-kart EVs, but Tesla/BMW i*/Benz EQ* comparable in term of performance or interior.

There is a reason why China is no longer the sweet market for legacy automakers. If you check the news, pretty much EVERY legacy automaker is having trouble in China. Huge YoY decline in both top and bottom line. And even slashing prices sometimes by half didn't help.

People are just no longer buying legacy cars when you can get similar or better car for less $$$.

Legacy automaker is too short-sighted. My prediction is that if tariff is somehow worked out, at least 1 of the legacy automakers would be bought out by Chinese EV company where they are stripped of everything (factory, union... etc) and only the brand and distribution network would continue within the next 5yrs.

Brands such as Mazda, Nissan or Renault are specially vulnerable because they have low market cap and their business aren't doing good to begin with. A few bad quarters and they could run out of working capital and become easy target for takeover.

[EvoFire]

I agree with everything, but with caveats.

Like what others have said in this thread, China car manufacturers don't have the testing in place. It's the same as signing a SLA with a service provider. 99% uptime and 99.9% or 99.99% is a big difference and the costs are different. I don't have faith in China's cars being as trouble free as the legacy makers. Not being able to be a first and only choice vehicle will limit their adaptation in many places.

Keep in mind a lot of people are turned off by Tesla's quality issues, and I do not think Chinese manufacturers have them beat in that regard.

I also disagree that legacy makers are at risk of being taken over. You are correct in that a lot of makers are probably a few bad quarters away from going poof, but with the increasing nationalist sentiment across the world it's unlikely their gov'ts would let the makers now be bought out from China. Just look at the Japanese gov't trying to string a marriage together between Nissan and Honda, and then Toyota, and that's not with an outright threat of takeover.

[Hehe]

Originally Posted by EvoFire

I agree with everything, but with caveats.

Like what others have said in this thread, China car manufacturers don't have the testing in place. It's the same as signing a SLA with a service provider. 99% uptime and 99.9% or 99.99% is a big difference and the costs are different. I don't have faith in China's cars being as trouble free as the legacy makers. Not being able to be a first and only choice vehicle will limit their adaptation in many places.

Keep in mind a lot of people are turned off by Tesla's quality issues, and I do not think Chinese manufacturers have them beat in that regard.

I also disagree that legacy makers are at risk of being taken over. You are correct in that a lot of makers are probably a few bad quarters away from going poof, but with the increasing nationalist sentiment across the world it's unlikely their gov'ts would let the makers now be bought out from China. Just look at the Japanese gov't trying to string a marriage together between Nissan and Honda, and then Toyota, and that's not with an outright threat of takeover.

The idea with EVs is that you no longer treat a car like it used to. Not in term of expected life, at least.

Taxis and full time Ubers in China are now exclusively EVs with maybe some PHEV in between. But I actually had a chat with several of them during my last trip, and they all say the same thing. They put like 150-200k a year (2 ppl driving 12hr each and car runs 24/7), and after 2-3yrs, they just sell it to someone who specialize in buying these high-mileage EVs for parts and shit.

And if you think how this make any sense, just think about how much cars used to cost in China. A decent sedan/small SUV in China used to cost 300k RMB or more with entry-level 3/5 series bimmers in the 600k+ RMB range. Then these EVs are being sold for 130-250k for comparable size/interior

To put it into Canadian perspective, a Camry or Rav4 is what? 40k in Canada, entry level bimmer in 60k range. If suddenly a car that's comparable coming in at 10k, but the catch is that instead of with a Camry, you might expect it to last 20yrs if you drive it to the ground, now it's 10yrs.

It would still sell like hotcakes. The idea is purely math. If they need to spend 2*10k to get the same 20yr life, it's still cheaper than buying a Rav4 at 40k.

So, they don't need "testing in place". They were never meant to do a 1:1 replacement of your old car, but rather something that does the same job, but more disposable.