The Panama Papers

[Sid Vicious]

simpsons did it

YouTube

[ae101]

im just gonna post this here

China ups P@nama Papers Censorship after Xi's relatives named

gululu wanna explain this for me as i work and live china now, dont wanna lose faith in the chinese government

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

Originally Posted by originalhypa

Ulic's, you are just so fucking stupid sometimes.....

maybe i will reword it...

people with money, wanna keep their money...

is that a fucking surprise?

people with power, don't wanna give up their power?

what's so fucking surprising.

i'd be hiding my fucking money everywhere too. regardless if it was legal or illegal money.

why the fuck would i wanna give up money if i didnt have to?



NOW im going to sound like CIC.

every one is so fucking focused on the leaked papers that no ones asking WHY the papers were leaked.

there's obviously a BIGGER plan here.

or else the leaker wouldn't leak it.

it's not just some joe schmo hacker that wants to "make the world fair" lol.

whoever leaked this fucking shit has a bigger strategy and this is just part of it.



what's in the papers isn't important.
it's, who hacked it, who leaked it, and why leak it at this particular time, and for what reason. those are the real questions.
there is a greedy reason behind it. it's not some heaven sent divine whatever goody shit.

[Carl Johnson]

Originally Posted by Ulic Qel-Droma

maybe i will reword it...

people with money, wanna keep their money...

is that a fucking surprise?

people with power, don't wanna give up their power?

what's so fucking surprising.

i'd be hiding my fucking money everywhere too. regardless if it was legal or illegal money.

why the fuck would i wanna give up money if i didnt have to?



NOW im going to sound like CIC.

every one is so fucking focused on the leaked papers that no ones asking WHY the papers were leaked.

there's obviously a BIGGER plan here.

or else the leaker wouldn't leak it.

it's not just some joe schmo hacker that wants to "make the world fair" lol.

whoever leaked this fucking shit has a bigger strategy and this is just part of it.



what's in the papers isn't important.
it's, who hacked it, who leaked it, and why leak it at this particular time, and for what reason. those are the real questions.
there is a greedy reason behind it. it's not some heaven sent divine whatever goody shit.

a rich person wants to keep more his or her money is nothing new. i completely agree with you there. but you know what i hate about those well-off people? they are hypocrites and liars. if you a liar and a thief then just let the world know you are a knave and stop pretending you give a rats ass about the rest of society. but no these people will go to charity, play some golf, and get tv time like they really care about the rest of humanity. oh but i am saving the polar bears and the amazon rain forest. will this report change anything meaningful? i doubt it. but it does show who those individuals really are.

[plat27265]

Originally Posted by Ulic Qel-Droma

maybe i will reword it...
i'd be hiding my fucking money everywhere too. regardless if it was legal or illegal money.

why the fuck would i wanna give up money if i didnt have to?

Well, you have to give up some of that sweet money to enjoy the benefits of living in a country that provides the following things that you take for granted:
Education
Peace and Order
Roads/Infrastructure
Tons of national parks and space to roam, camp, hike, bike, etc.
Community Centers
Social Programs
Injection Sites
Maintaining military might
Clean environment (water, air, etc)
etc.

If you have not been outside the country, I suggest you visit some country that collects low or no income tax and see if you can get the same benefits that you enjoy in comfort here in Canada. A lot of countries collect a higher tax than Canada but only offer little benefit to their citizens. A lot of that tax money goes into corrupt politicians' pockets.

One has to pay to play. Nothing is free.

[dasani604]

Originally Posted by Ulic Qel-Droma

maybe i will reword it...

people with money, wanna keep their money...

is that a fucking surprise?

people with power, don't wanna give up their power?

what's so fucking surprising.

i'd be hiding my fucking money everywhere too. regardless if it was legal or illegal money.

why the fuck would i wanna give up money if i didnt have to?



NOW im going to sound like CIC.

every one is so fucking focused on the leaked papers that no ones asking WHY the papers were leaked.

there's obviously a BIGGER plan here.

or else the leaker wouldn't leak it.

it's not just some joe schmo hacker that wants to "make the world fair" lol.

whoever leaked this fucking shit has a bigger strategy and this is just part of it.



what's in the papers isn't important.
it's, who hacked it, who leaked it, and why leak it at this particular time, and for what reason. those are the real questions.
there is a greedy reason behind it. it's not some heaven sent divine whatever goody shit.

Ditto. Hiding money has gone on for centuries - the information of who and how was just not made available to the public until leaks such as this one.

CiC or not, there are always reasons and motives behind every action. The money from Saudi royalty must be ridiculously vast - screw over this firm in Panama then what next? Via Bloomberg, Rothschild (as well as other law firms) is opening a office in Nevada and rearranging their clients. Cut the head off of a head beast and replace it yourself for more profits.

One of the firms supporting the leak is funded greatly by George Soros - Hedge Fund Manager as well. So - lots of great detail in the vine where attention is not brought to.

Side note, those IMF leaks are quite interesting as well; possibly more intriguing than the Panama Papers themselves. June shall be an interesting time in the markets considering the Brexit - whether or not the IMF desiring an event to destabilize Europe even more is valid. Although, if you are body that lends money, you want to be able to do this as often as possible. The IMF only lends when countries are in need of help. Logic connects the dots for us here.

[SkinnyPupp]

The Panama Papers prove it: we can afford a universal basic income | Colin Holtz | Opinion | The Guardian

The Tax Justice Network estimates the global elite are sitting on $21–32tn of untaxed assets. Clearly, only a portion of that is owed to the US or any other nation in taxes – the highest tax bracket in the US is 39.6% of income. But consider that a small universal income of $2,000 a year to every adult in the US – enough to keep some people from missing a mortgage payment or skimping on food or medicine – would cost only around $563bn each year.

A larger income, to ensure that no American fell into absolute abject poverty – say, $12,000 a year – would cost around $3.6tn. That is a big number, but one that once again seems far more reasonable when considered through the lens of the Panama Papers and the scandal of global tax evasion. Because the truth is that we have all been robbed, systematically, by the world’s wealthiest people, for decades. They have used those stolen dollars to build yet more wealth for themselves, and all the while we have been arguing with ourselves over what to do with the leftover pennies.

[originalhypa]

I may not agree with Ulic's opinion, but I appreciate when it's well said.
I totally agree that the wealthy try as hard as they can to keep their money. I use all of the opportunities from tfsa to resp to keep my money. But the truth is that these rich pricks are robbing our communities. The Vancouver school board is $29 million in the hole this year. Would they still be in such trouble if everyone paid their fair share?

I like the idea of a flat tax. Combined with pst and gst, I would like to think that we would be in a better situation.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

the thing is if they redistributed the money to everyone, it would eventually just go back to the way things are now...

people's spending habits and saving habits dictate where the money goes.

the rich get richer, and the poor get poorer, because of mentality.

if the money was fairly paid in taxes and all that stuff, people's expectations and spending habits would just go up and everything would be equalized back to what it is now...

instead of spending 50c on a pencil for the school board, they would be buying 5 dollar pencils... cuz they can.

the problem is the average chump doesn't know how to manage their money like the rich do. the bigger the bank, the more they spend. the rich know this. that's why they don't wanna share, cuz if they do, all that money will just get blown on retarded shit.

it's not designed to be a struggle, that part is innate.

the system isn't designed by some mastermind or a group of rich people.

the system we see and operate in, is a by product of our actions which is a by product of our mentality.

regardless of how you reset the system, or redistribute anything... it will ALWAYS fall back to its current state.

like water flowing down stream, it's always going to flow the way it flows. regardless of how you try to control the water. any redistribution or "system overhaul" is very temporary.

there is no problem... and if you think there is, then look in the mirror and point at yourself. cuz humans would be the problem lol.

the system is fair in the way that you have a chance of climbing up there and hiding your money and pissing down the pyramid on the rest of the people. if not you, maybe your children or grand children, or grand grand children.

there really is no other way, as long as we are homo sapiens.

lol, the only hope we have in our lifetime is some super AI/robotics/cybernetics, that changes the dynamics of how humans fundamentally think and operate.

otherwise we are just super apes, and the pattern of how power is distributed has not changed in all of recorded history. what makes you think it will change now? humans haven't changed. and wont. it's that easy.

now get out there and make big bank and join them!

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

Originally Posted by plat27265

Well, you have to give up some of that sweet money to enjoy the benefits of living in a country that provides the following things that you take for granted:
Education
Peace and Order
Roads/Infrastructure
Tons of national parks and space to roam, camp, hike, bike, etc.
Community Centers
Social Programs
Injection Sites
Maintaining military might
Clean environment (water, air, etc)
etc.

If you have not been outside the country, I suggest you visit some country that collects low or no income tax and see if you can get the same benefits that you enjoy in comfort here in Canada. A lot of countries collect a higher tax than Canada but only offer little benefit to their citizens. A lot of that tax money goes into corrupt politicians' pockets.

One has to pay to play. Nothing is free.

yah dude, the people that use those services most pay for it... aka everyone other than the rich.

the rich pay for their own private services... cuz they can. lol.

[CharlesInCharge]

the system isn't designed by some mastermind or a group of rich people.

I disagree. Like stated earlier... who owns these off shore banks?

Canada doesnt deny funding global terror... who decides to fund ISIS?
Reports link Islamic State recruiter to Canadian Embassy in Jordan | Ottawa Citizen

...and with protecting the drug trade with our occupation of Afghanistan which still exports 90% of the worlds heroin through its bright red farm fields of poppy flowers...

are we as Canadian citizens expecting a return of profits from all of this paid by our taxes?

[Timpo]

Trudeau says he's been 'entirely and completely transparent' about his finances - Politics - CBC News

"In this budget, even before the Panama Papers came out, we had allocated an extra $440 million to the Canada Revenue Agency to ensure they are empowered to go after tax avoidance," Trudeau said.

[Hehe]

Oh come on... not the rich hate again. People are not getting this right.

Of course, if people are using the anonymity for illegal purpose/proceed (like how the Iceland PM did), it's not good. But you can't stop criminals to commit crimes... whatever you do or we as citizen demand our gov't to do, someone else would find a loophole and exploit it.

Instead, people should look at the big picture if they really want to make a difference. It's not about who's cheating on taxes, it's about how it was done. Why is it that the strategies have existed for so long (the leak dates back 40yrs), yet IRS/CRA never took action on it? Let me tell you, because more often than not, IRS/CRA came up empty-handed.

The strategies that these people use are not exactly morally correct, but they are legal. IRS/CRA can pour all the resource they want, but they would find little if any at all illegal. Hence, it's not worth their investment to go after these.

To make a difference, we should start educating ourselves on the method they use, see how they can improve our tax efficiency and go along with it. Only when the gov't stops getting enough revenue, they would start looking how to change laws to stop this madness.

This is why after so many years of complaining to my parents about using professionals to "optimize" their taxes, my brother joined them last year. He had his new accountant restructures his holding structure to be more efficient when it comes to cross-border tax filling, and although it cost some good pennies, He now pays slightly more taxes (percentage-wise), but worry less about how his holdings would pass onto his children one day and have less exposure to liabilities should anything happens. The best part? As his income grows, his tax rate would actually stay the same (or decrease in relative term) and all while staying perfectly legal.

So don't hate, join them... talk to a professional and see what they can do for you. You might be surprised what a few thousand dollars on fees can make on your finances in the long run.

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by Hehe

The strategies that these people use are not exactly morally correct, but they are legal.

So how did Putin legally get 2 billion dollars. I don't think Russian civil servants get paid that well.

[Hehe]

Originally Posted by Manic!

So how did Putin legally get 2 billion dollars. I don't think Russian civil servants get paid that well.

I was referring to the strategy itself, not the source of fund. Whether that 2B was illegitimate, we'd never know. They can claim some special funding resource from the gov't and make it perfectly legal for all purposes, he just didn't want the transactions to be on the table (the specific accounts linked to Putin was speculated to be accounts to pay for bribes, access to information... etc. It was not a personal saving account per se)

And even if the fund were dirty, it would have been in place with or without Fonseca.

I'm just saying that we, as average joes should really try to get what we can learn from here, and not being swayed by the media on saying who's corrupt. After all, none of these accusations were proven. It's simply the in-fame that people get when they read about "offshore accounts". Doing that doesn't make your life any better.

But let's say you want to make a change... to close these loopholes. Do you think by scrutinizing the details of these shadow entities are going to change anything? No! They would find some holes here and there, fine a few millions... and everything is back to where it was. Riches still cheat like crazy while average joes take all the responsibility.

As I said, join them... let's say when every single individual is optimizing their taxes at the full extend the law permits, we'd either have a happy society where there's no hate (everyone exploiting the same holes) or the gov't would start closing old holes.

[SkinnyPupp]

Nobody gives a shit about the strategy of offshore banking, so quit trying to make it out to be 'oh the plebs are angry that we figured out how to get richer and now they want our hidden money'

The important part is when it's being used illegally for things like sheltering from having to pay taxes due, drug banking, etc.

Everyone knows that sketchy offshore banking exists and has for a long time.

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by Hehe

As I said, join them... let's say when every single individual is optimizing their taxes at the full extend the law permits, we'd either have a happy society where there's no hate (everyone exploiting the same holes) or the gov't would start closing old holes.

Are you sure what your accountant is doing is legal? For all I know your whole family could be one audit away from being up schitt'$ creek.

[Hehe]

Originally Posted by Manic!

Are you sure what your accountant is doing is legal? For all I know your whole family could be one audit away from being up schitt'$ creek.

Audit was done several times... other than some small mistakes, nothing major. The integrity itself is sound as far as IRS and Taiwan government (their base) are concerned.

To be more precise, what I'm suggesting is this... don't hate the rich because they are doing something more than you when you could do the exact same thing.

Tax planning is perfectly legal and I suggest everyone to spend some time and money to speak with a professional in the know to discuss your long term plan and options and how some creative planning can make big impact in the future.

By avoiding an efficient tax planning, you are just giving the riches reasons to continue to take advantage of the system. An efficient tax planning doesn't always involves an offshore holding, although in some cases (let's say you are investing in foreign assets in the longer term, parking your cash abroad actually makes more sense than repatriating because you can defer the taxes in Canada for as long as possible, not to mention some advantages on estate planning, liability... so on), it can help. Or something more simple like life-term insurance policy, use of trust, or some other strategies that can limit your tax exposure.

By not doing the planning, you might be contributing to the society, but you might as well setup everything and donate your money to the party that you think deserve the most. I mean, you are giving away money, why not do it in the way you agree the most?

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

Originally Posted by Hehe

To be more precise, what I'm suggesting is this... don't hate the rich because they are doing something more than you when you could do the exact same thing.

lol worded it perfectly. well said.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

Originally Posted by CharlesInCharge

I disagree. Like stated earlier... who owns these off shore banks?

sure, but the offshore banks exist because they can. because not any one power controls everything.

if there was some new world order illuminati, they wouldn't need to hide. they wouldn't NEED hidden offshore banks. they'd just fuckin kill who they want and take what they want in plain sight. no need to hide.

the fact that people need to hide, means there's NO one central power controlling everything. they can hide under the wings of one entity, while operating under the wings of another entity.

the illuminati, is as real as the patriarchy...

it's a distorted perception that there is some greater power out there oppressing people. when in fact, it's just a perception malfunction lol...

wow, i just realised 3rd wave feminists are as crazy as cic lol. they are the exact same type of crazy actually. hahaha!!!




okok, so there might be some kinda zio-nazi wahtever illuminati lizard men group.. but they ARENT as powerful as you think they are... and they definitely have infighting as well. there's definitely a game of thrones shit going on within their group. it happens within every powerful group. no matter how secret they are.


that being said, bad things are not always bad. balance is needed, ying and yang bros. balance.

when you start labelling things good and bad, moral and immoral... it just means you're on one side of the extreme... cuz in reality, there is no good or bad, just sides you're on.

shadow banking, black market, all that shit is a big part of our world, and a much needed part of our world. if u get rid of it, i GUARANTEE, your beloved legit world will fall to pieces faster than you jizzing the first time you had sex.

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by Hehe

To be more precise, what I'm suggesting is this... don't hate the rich because they are doing something more than you when you could do the exact same thing.

Tax planning is perfectly legal and I suggest everyone to spend some time and money to speak with a professional in the know to discuss your long term plan and options and how some creative planning can make big impact in the future.

By avoiding an efficient tax planning, you are just giving the riches reasons to continue to take advantage of the system. An efficient tax planning doesn't always involves an offshore holding, although in some cases (let's say you are investing in foreign assets in the longer term, parking your cash abroad actually makes more sense than repatriating because you can defer the taxes in Canada for as long as possible, not to mention some advantages on estate planning, liability... so on), it can help. Or something more simple like life-term insurance policy, use of trust, or some other strategies that can limit your tax exposure.

By not doing the planning, you might be contributing to the society, but you might as well setup everything and donate your money to the party that you think deserve the most. I mean, you are giving away money, why not do it in the way you agree the most?

My brothers an accountant with his own firm dealing with gas and mining companies before that he was a CFO for a mining company and before that he was the head of the tax department for one of the big 3 in Vancouver. There is no reason to hide money from the government unless you are doing something illegal.

[Hehe]

Originally Posted by Manic!

There is no reason to hide money from the government unless you are doing something illegal.

And there is no reason for them to know something if the asset doesn't concern the gov't in question.

Your idea of "they have an anonymous offshore account, they must be doing something illegal" is a prejudice, but it can simply be a way to avoid filling headaches.

My parents live outside of Taiwan while owning both foreign (to TW) and domestic assets. In their tax filling to Taiwan, they list every local assets and income that's generated from TW source and pay the TW taxes accordingly. And because of them not residing in Taiwan, their foreign assets don't concern Taiwanese gov't, and there's no need for them to know about such existence. Therefore, their annonymous holding entity is not illegal as long as they are still filling everything accordingly.

I might not have made myself clear, and I will try to do again.

Tax planning strategies, including but not limited to offshore entities, trusts, and/or insurance policies, are ways to optimize one's tax obligation. By employing such strategies do not constitute a tax evasion as long as all the legal requirements on declaration were met.

If one is evading taxes and only using strategies to make it harder to discover, that's whole other topic. A person could hold cash income under the mattress and still constitute as tax evasion. Thus, methods of how to achieve tax efficiency is not the illegal part.

I am advocating that everyone should maximize their tax efficiency. Afterall, why pay more than what you have to? If you have the prejudice on tax strategies and think they are simply all methods for tax evasion, you should think again. Furthermore, if your brother is CFO for a corporation, then he has the obligation and responsibility to the company shareholders to explore all possible legal methods to maximize profit, or in this case, minimize the tax exposure, liability or any other cost possible. By doing anything less, he wouldn't be doing his job right.

Tl;dr: tax strategies are something everyone should take a look at. They are available to everyone, but it is up to us as taxpayers to use it. If you don't, you are forfeiting your right to a higher tax efficiency. And why do that?

[CharlesInCharge]

Originally Posted by Ulic Qel-Droma

sure, but the offshore banks exist because they can. because not any one power controls everything.

if there was some new world order illuminati, they wouldn't need to hide. they wouldn't NEED hidden offshore banks. they'd just fuckin kill who they want and take what they want in plain sight. no need to hide.

....



okok, so there might be some kinda zio-nazi wahtever illuminati lizard men group.. but they ARENT as powerful as you think they are... and they definitely have infighting as well. there's definitely a game of thrones shit going on within their group. it happens within every powerful group. no matter how secret they are.


...

The "NWO" power controls governments and on top of that prints countries money and decides how much should be in circulation, how much devalued by inflation and so on. So yes they wouldnt need offshore banks when its them behind everything,

A simple question that no one here can answer is whom do the western countries owe debt to? and are paying interest to... with Canada paying 40 billion alone on interest every year.

Second question is how all western countries have aligned themselves to blame 911 on 19 hijackers and to mobilize the U.S., Nato, and the Commonwealth armies to attack Iraq and Afghanistan.

What entity has the power to unify terrorist from around the world, import reliable Toyota's, spend billions on mercenary pay and weapons to create ISIS for the Libya, Iraq, and Syria campaigns?

In before Scrooge McDuck and Mr.Burns.

[4444]

I have seen this situation from a UK viewpoint, and the issue there is not about legality, but morality.

The high level view is that foreigners pay no UK capital gains tax on assets, so if you have a panama company that is run by a non-UK resident, no tax. gains are taxed in panama (probably 0%), funds can be repatriated.

by the letter of the law, this is 100% legal if control was, in fact, not done by a UK resident. Sadly, this is where panama gets a bit dicey, they have certain corporations that hide the controlling person, they put someone else's name as the person that controls decisions of the company (proxy control, the one giving proxy never gets named).

The issue here is not the people doing it, it is the ineffectiveness of tax authorities to develop simple rules that cannot be abused like this. In this global economy, we all should know each other's legal rules (country by country) and if there is a loophole, close it.

[Sid Vicious]

Originally Posted by Ulic Qel-Droma

sure, but the offshore banks exist because they can. because not any one power controls everything.

if there was some new world order illuminati, they wouldn't need to hide. they wouldn't NEED hidden offshore banks. they'd just fuckin kill who they want and take what they want in plain sight. no need to hide.

the fact that people need to hide, means there's NO one central power controlling everything. they can hide under the wings of one entity, while operating under the wings of another entity.

the illuminati, is as real as the patriarchy...

it's a distorted perception that there is some greater power out there oppressing people. when in fact, it's just a perception malfunction lol...

wow, i just realised 3rd wave feminists are as crazy as cic lol. they are the exact same type of crazy actually. hahaha!!!




okok, so there might be some kinda zio-nazi wahtever illuminati lizard men group.. but they ARENT as powerful as you think they are... and they definitely have infighting as well. there's definitely a game of thrones shit going on within their group. it happens within every powerful group. no matter how secret they are.


that being said, bad things are not always bad. balance is needed, ying and yang bros. balance.

when you start labelling things good and bad, moral and immoral... it just means you're on one side of the extreme... cuz in reality, there is no good or bad, just sides you're on.

shadow banking, black market, all that shit is a big part of our world, and a much needed part of our world. if u get rid of it, i GUARANTEE, your beloved legit world will fall to pieces faster than you jizzing the first time you had sex.

exactly lol

guys like edward snowden would be dead in a second if some NWO organization actually existed