The Panama Papers

[CharlesInCharge]

Typical of you to fail me 4444 without challenging my views or questions...
could it be that an early life of mercury and aluminum injections has retarded your full potential?
How about the daily onslaught of hidden MSG in your food or fluoride toothpaste... could that explain your cognitive deficiencies to rebuttal in an civilized academic fashion then to always leave me a little fail to show youre in disagreement?

[originalhypa]

Originally Posted by Hehe

If one is evading taxes and only using strategies to make it harder to discover, that's whole other topic. A person could hold cash income under the mattress and still constitute as tax evasion. Thus, methods of how to achieve tax efficiency is not the illegal part.

The only way this would be considered tax evasion is if the money under the mattress was earned as income and income taxes were not paid on that income.

The important parts are highlighted for you. Once income tax has been paid, the money is clean and you can do with it what you choose.

But using Putin as an example, do you really think he is paying income taxes on those billions and putting the balance into an offshore account?

What's more likely is that the money was transferred into those account, in order to not pay tax on the money. You have to be naive to think that all of those thousands of people are honest in their offshore banking.

Tl;dr: tax strategies are something everyone should take a look at. They are available to everyone, but it is up to us as taxpayers to use it. If you don't, you are forfeiting your right to a higher tax efficiency. And why do that?

I agree with you 100% here. But there is a big difference between taking advantage of a TFSA or RRSP, compared to making cash money and having it deposited outside of your country. That's straight up illegal, which is why the Panama papers are garnering so much attention.

[Sid Vicious]

Originally Posted by CharlesInCharge

Typical of you to fail me 4444 without challenging my views or questions...
could it be that an early life of mercury and aluminum injections has retarded your full potential?
How about the daily onslaught of hidden MSG in your food or fluoride toothpaste... could that explain your cognitive deficiencies to rebutta in an civilized academic fashion then to always leave me a little fail to show youre in disagreement?

lmao at that syntax, looks like you just go through a thesaurus to construct your sentences

[Timpo]

WTF is Panama Papers?

Is it like a list of tax cheats? 11.5 million of them? This has nothing to do with KPMG vs CRA right? Those tax haven scandals?

[originalhypa]

^
take a look at the wiki. It explains a lot of what is going on here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Papers

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

Originally Posted by 4444

I have seen this situation from a UK viewpoint, and the issue there is not about legality, but morality.

legality is black and white. morality is not.

until morality can be black and white, there can never truly be an official moral debate and ruling on whether it is right or wrong.

until then, the law is the best thing that most people will agree on.

Originally Posted by 4444

In this global economy, we all should know each other's legal rules (country by country) and if there is a loophole, close it.

you assume standard global morality, or dare i even say, standard universal/cosmic morality.

except that morality isn't black and white. and it's super subjective, and super scenario dependent. and it keeps shifting depending on a trillion factors which over 7 billion people cannot agree on.

tell me, why should i close a loophole that you and i create?
why should i close that loophole so you can collect more tax money, when it has no benefit to my country? in fact im losing money now. benefit to who? the poor? the poor where? in your country? are you the usa pointing some democracy missiles at me? is that how this is gonna go? see where this leads to?

what's worse... hidden money, or war?

well... that actually depends who you ask lol. if hidden money was better, then we wouldn't have wars would we. hah.

we cannot assume some position of universal morality, as if morality is some divine quantum physical law that is sewn into the fabric of existence. unless god does exist and there are real consequences for breaking some standard universal moral law. we just dont know it till we're dead lol.

but more than likely, there is no one judging, or creating these morals, it all depends on which side of the gun you're on.

I'd rather live in a world where this shit happens, than in a world where everyone is forced to live under one moral code.

I'd rather wars happen, all the time, than be forced to live under one moral code... unless of course it's my moral code haha... right? see how this gets ultra complicated.

the truth is, no one cares about morals, they only use their own version of morals to get their opponents dethroned from power. throwing the morality book around is just another prelude to the excuse of using physical force and dropping bombs.

you guys DO know the only thing that will come from this is that this shadow banking and all this shadow underworld black market shit will just be forced to evolve to be even stealthier and sneakier and more undetectable and more hack proof next round. The SAME shit will just happen, with the new people in power, that have learnt from the mistakes of these guys.

The motive will NEVER go away. the methods will only improve.

people are fuckin smart. you cannot wholly control a zero sum system permanently, in which your opponents are the same species as you, and the pieces of power are other people. it's just impossible.

[originalhypa]

damn man, you're good.

Originally Posted by Ulic Qel-Droma

you guys DO know the only thing that will come from this is that this shadow banking and all this shadow underworld black market shit will just be forced to evolve to be even stealthier and sneakier and more undetectable and more hack proof next round. The SAME shit will just happen, with the new people in power, that have learnt from the mistakes of these guys.

The motive will NEVER go away. the methods will only improve.

This is the unfortunate truth. In 2006, wikileaks was supposed to change the world. It was supposed to bring to light the truth behind the hidden folks who run our world. But it didn't. Instead of rioting in the streets, we focussed on the Sony emails, and the alleged Assange rape.

They own us because they can. Knowledge is power? Bullshit. Knowledge is nothing more than knowing what is happening. It doesn't change anything.

[Timpo]

Originally Posted by originalhypa

^
take a look at the wiki. It explains a lot of what is going on here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Papers

This is so complicated.

So Mossack Fonseca is an accounting firm for business? Just like KPMG?
It says that their businesses included human trafficking and drug dealings as well as tax evasion?

Obviously if you're in human trafficking business, you're not gonna report that income to the government so apparently this accounting firm helped them out?

Seems like high end government officials and corporate executive were involved as well??

[CharlesInCharge]

Putin has no link to these so called leaks... its a false flag for sheeple to eat up.

Originally Posted by Sid Vicious

lmao at that syntax, looks like you just go through a thesaurus to construct your sentences

Canada got billions in loans for the Afghanistan mission to protect the drug trade among other things... tell me, what entity do we pay debt interest to for these endeavors?

inbe4 grownup Ralph Wiggum rebuttal.

[CRS]

Originally Posted by CharlesInCharge

Putin has no link to these so called leaks... its a false flag for sheeple to eat up.
Canada got billions in loans for the Afghanistan mission to protect the drug trade among other things... tell me, what entity do we pay debt interest to for these endeavors?

inbe4 grownup Ralph Wiggum rebuttal.

[Timpo]

how did it even get leaked?

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

Originally Posted by originalhypa

The only way this would be considered tax evasion is if the money under the mattress was earned as income and income taxes were not paid on that income.

The important parts are highlighted for you. Once income tax has been paid, the money is clean and you can do with it what you choose.

But using Putin as an example, do you really think he is paying income taxes on those billions and putting the balance into an offshore account?

What's more likely is that the money was transferred into those account, in order to not pay tax on the money. You have to be naive to think that all of those thousands of people are honest in their offshore banking.




I agree with you 100% here. But there is a big difference between taking advantage of a TFSA or RRSP, compared to making cash money and having it deposited outside of your country. That's straight up illegal, which is why the Panama papers are garnering so much attention.

my question to you is, do you think these guys chose to rise to the seat of power they sit in now, because they wanted to play nice? or because they have a gangster mentality and they choose to play that role, because they can, and because physical laws allow them to, and so does their ability to climb to power and excersize it.

do you think there are millions if not billions of potential people who would do the same? who are actually all the same, just they never rose to power or had the money to hide?

who's going to hold him accountable? i don't think anyone can. and he knows it, and that's why he gets away with it. and that's why there are these services that exist for these kinds of people.

the world's people are too busy trying to make their own money and gain their own power to get into his position.

that's what's so sweet about this world. if you wanna play nice, go play nice in some nice country. it's pretty fair to say we live pretty fair decent lives here in canada.

but i mean, if u wanna play it tough, high risk, high return... you can go out there and be a gangster and rack up the dough and hopefully make it into the big leagues with these guys and play on their level too. if you get caught along the way the price you pay is high. but the reward is all too sweet as well.

I don't get what people are trying to do here...

"putin has millions/billions in offshore accounts"
"yes... obviously... we knew that before already..."

the smaller bitch players that are still slaves and owned by their nation will get eaten and the state will take their "rightfully deserved" tax money.

the bigger players will negotiate a get out of jail free card, they'll share a bit of the wealth.

the biggest players will get away with it, cuz no power actually owns them, and they'll also absorb anything left on the table.

[Digitalis]

While your on the topic of war, you can't just go to war these days.
You need the moral highground, thus explains the slandering of Putin.
With the way the derivatives markets are set to implode the elite need to distract the general public with a EPIC sized distraction to cover their EPIC sized fraud.
In the past the leaders that called for war marched into the frontlines and actually got their hands dirty and had the real chance of dieing on the front lines for their cause.

Nowadays you have a bunch of pencil pushers that have never seen death/war upclose and personal. They just push a button or order a underling to do it.
Why do you think there are all these candidates spouting off about showing Russia how "strong" we are?
How about Obama saying he was worried about a nuke going off in NYC.
*wink wink nudge nudge*
They are actively trying to start a nuclear war with Russia as a giant distraction! No one else has the technology to mess with the USA currently.
Saber rattling aside it would take China till 2020-25 to be able to mess with the US.

If you look at history when uprisings start to happen and people begin to figure things out, suddenly war breaks out!

All in all if shit hits the fan I expect more "millionares" flooding to vancouver and those RE prices are going to keep going up. Just look at Millionaires Are Fleeing Chicago In Record Numbers | Zero Hedge

[4444]

Originally Posted by CharlesInCharge

Typical of you to fail me 4444 without challenging my views or questions...
could it be that an early life of mercury and aluminum injections has retarded your full potential?
How about the daily onslaught of hidden MSG in your food or fluoride toothpaste... could that explain your cognitive deficiencies to rebuttal in an civilized academic fashion then to always leave me a little fail to show youre in disagreement?

because when i do, your response is nonsense and total ignorance of the issue at hand.

do you not eat food, then? do you not brush your teeth? because the BS you drivel here (such as the quoted) is just that - i tend to eat only home prepared meals (generally), fresh fruit and veg, salads, very little meat.

i do brush with toothpaste, and european water has fluoride in it (healthier teeth... though that is an oxymoron, given my people's teeth... ok, brits actually have extremely healthy, just ugly, teeth)

what do you want to actually debate - one on one debate and retort? if it is debate and retort, i'm down, but if it's debate and drivel, i won't waste my time

[4444]

Originally Posted by CharlesInCharge

Putin has no link to these so called leaks... its a false flag for sheeple to eat up.
l.

no one needs to rebut this. please expand on how Putin is not involved in this given the fact that his best friend (daughter's god father) is ABSOLUTELY involved.

You may say guilty by association, but there's no smoke without fire.

please support your assertion.

[CharlesInCharge]

This is petty even for you 4444.
You failed my post (#73)
http://www.revscene.net/forums/70835...ml#post8745321
So lets start from the beginning. Whats your rebuttal?

Here is what I have packing to give you a chance...
http://www.rudemacedon.ca/fhtt/debtscam.html

And on another note a Harvard study says fluoridated water is causing cognitive disorders... but facts like this is what you would call drivel.

[4444]

Originally Posted by CharlesInCharge

This is petty even for you 4444.
You failed my post (#73)
http://www.revscene.net/forums/70835...ml#post8745321
So lets start from the beginning. Whats your rebuttal?

Here is what I have packing to give you a chance...
From Here to There - The Great National Debt Scam

And on another note a Harvard study says fluoridated water is causing cognitive disorders... but facts like this is what you would call drivel.

random pictures of text, cracker jack site links.

edit:
haha, yeah CIC, this is a legit site:
"the Rude Macedon
Conspiracy Theorist and F***ing Proud of It!!"

this is why i don't even bother anymore.

just so you know, you can take 100 studies on a topic, they will have a breakdown like this:

10 will be rebuttals of previous studies given new hypotheses or new data (sometimes by the same people)
50 will be one way
40 will be another way

finding 1 study doesn't mean a proposition is fact.

breathing is bad for you, it kills you - i could find you studies (multiple) proving this, you going to hold your breath now?

[CharlesInCharge]

Thanks for proving to everyone that your fails are worthless clicks of an uneducated, arrogant and fluoridated man.

[4444]

Originally Posted by CharlesInCharge

Thanks for proving to everyone that your fails are worthless clicks of an uneducated, arrogant and fluoridated man.

wot?

i questioned you on putin... still waiting on a response to prove he had nothing to do with his best friend all of a sudden, for doing nothing, getting rights to hundreds of millions of dollars worth of loan repayments, or receiving multi million dollar loans that were immediately written off.

luck?

CIC, you define the term troll with shit like this. you are the kettle calling the pot black.

i still want to know whether you brush your teeth with toothpaste, or if you eat any food.

[jasonturbo]

You know what's even worse than rich people hiding their money?

They way that governments just burn cash.

No conspiracy or 1%'er bullshit needed.

[Digitalis]

Sorry nowadays calling someone a conspiracy theorist is no longer a valid holier than thou method of dismissing them. The main stream media has tried that tactic and all its gotten them is a declining audience.
Sad to see mr. numbers and facts in the finance department has bupkis when it comes to real facts.
You can lie to yourself all you want in the real estate thread but dont think you wont get called out for it here.

Originally Posted by 4444

random pictures of text, cracker jack site links.

edit:
haha, yeah CIC, this is a legit site:
"the Rude Macedon
Conspiracy Theorist and F***ing Proud of It!!"

this is why i don't even bother anymore.

just so you know, you can take 100 studies on a topic, they will have a breakdown like this:

10 will be rebuttals of previous studies given new hypotheses or new data (sometimes by the same people)
50 will be one way
40 will be another way

finding 1 study doesn't mean a proposition is fact.

breathing is bad for you, it kills you - i could find you studies (multiple) proving this, you going to hold your breath now?

[pastarocket]

The searchable database is interesting. I found Jackie Chan's shell company. -awful name to use. He could have called it "Rush Hour Limited" in order to try to keep a low profile.


Search the Panama Papers database - Business - CBC News

JACKIE CHAN LIMITED

Connected to 1 officer
Connected to 1 intermediary
Incorporated: 25-JUL-2005
Status: Active
Registered in: British Virgin Islands
Linked countries: Hong Kong
Data from: Panama Papers
Agent: Mossack Fonseca
The panama papers data is current through 2015

[GLOW]

Originally Posted by CharlesInCharge

Thanks for proving to everyone that your fails are worthless clicks of an uneducated, arrogant and fluoridated man.

4444 lives in florida? does he listen to flo rida too?

[Timpo]

CRA cracks down too hard on average taxpayers, goes easy on rich, Liberals say - The Globe and Mail

CRA cracks down too hard on average taxpayers, goes easy on rich, Liberals say
OTTAWA — The Globe and Mail
Published Thursday, May 05, 2016 8:38PM EDT
Last updated Thursday, May 05, 2016 8:43PM EDT


The Canada Revenue Agency headquarters in Ottawa is shown on November 4, 2011.
(Sean Kilpatrick/THE CANADIAN PRESS)

Liberal MPs are accusing Canada Revenue Agency executives of cracking down too hard on average taxpayers while quietly reaching deals with well-off Canadians who can afford high-priced lawyers and accountants.

CRA commissioner Andrew Treusch and his top officials responsible for offshore tax enforcement were grilled on Thursday by MPs on the House of Commons finance committee as part of a review of the agency’s enforcement approach.

Much of the discussion focused on the CRA’s continuing investigation of what it calls the “KPMG offshore tax scheme,” in which the global accounting firm helped 27 wealthy individuals move money to the Isle of Man as a way to avoid Canadian taxes.

A KPMG executive testified earlier this week that the service was provided for an average fee of about $100,000, and that the firm largely phased out the program in 2003.

The members of the governing caucus criticized the CRA even though the March 22 Liberal budget gave the agency a vote of confidence, providing an extra $444.4-million to improve tax enforcement. The budget projected that these efforts would raise an additional $2.6-billion in revenue over five years. The CRA described that estimate as “conservative” on Thursday.

Officials refused to confirm directly on Thursday that the agency has reached out-of-court settlements with some people connected to its KPMG investigation. However, the agency released a summary review of its actions conducted by Dalhousie University law professor Kim Brooks that concludes it acted appropriately and that it is “normal” for it to resolve disputes out of court after weighing the potential cost and time of further litigation.

Several Liberal MPs challenged that argument.

Jennifer O’Connell, who represents Pickering-Uxbridge, said she has “very serious concerns” about how the CRA treats average taxpayers. She said single mothers in her riding are being forced to hand over their low-income government support payments because of disputes with the agency over relatively small amounts of owed taxes.

“If the determination [of whether to settle] is based on hours in court or accountant fees, how would the average Canadian who can’t afford a $100,000 fee to KPMG, how is that a fair treatment across the board for all taxpayers?” she asked.

Mr. Treusch said all Canadians can get settlements, regardless of income. “We’ve been emphasizing that if a taxpayer has a debt beyond their means to pay, please come talk to us. We’re happy to work out some resolution. These are available to all taxpayers.”

Brampton East Liberal MP Raj Grewal also challenged the CRA on the suggestion that average Canadians receive the same treatment as high-income taxpayers.

“It’s the perception that they’re getting a better deal than the truck driver, the taxi driver, that’s being audited for their receipts, gas receipts and stuff like that,” he said. “People are very concerned when the CRA picks up the phone and starts reviewing their file. I think that’s where the heart of the issue is.”

Mr. Treusch also said the agency is trying to do more assisting and less auditing of small businesses while increasing the auditing focus on large international companies.

He said the KPMG case is continuing and that it has led the agency to conduct a “blitz” of 800 tax files connected to the Isle of Man.

“We do not characterize the KPMG file as an amnesty,” he said. “This matter remains before the court. We are determined to continue to get all of the participants in this scheme and we want our day in court. Our work is not done.”

[originalhypa]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

The important part is when it's being used illegally for things like sheltering from having to pay taxes due, drug banking, etc.

and it begins.....

Panama Papers expose secret offshore firms of Vancouver developer Michael Ching, wanted by China for graft

Exclusive: Property magnate and would-be refugee, suspected of embezzlement and hiding assets, is identified in leaked documents by his HKID number, connecting him to two now-defunct tax haven companies set up in 1990s

Vancouver property developer Michael Ching Mo Yeung, who is wanted by China for corruption and hiding illicit assets, was a director and owner of two secret offshore companies set up in the tax haven of the British Virgin Islands in the 1990s, according to leaked financial information obtained by the South China Morning Post this week.

The wealthy businessman - who is fighting for refugee status in Canada and is the son of late disgraced Hebei governor Cheng Weigao – purchased a “ready made” BVI investment company with three other people in 1995, according to documents from the so-called Panama Papers provided by the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists.

He is identifiable both by name, “Ching Mo Yeung”, and his Hong Kong identity card number, which matches that provided by China in a “wanted” notice last year.

Panama Papers expose secret offshore firms of Vancouver developer Michael Ching, wanted by China for graft | South China Morning Post

and look, there he is with Turdeau.