Lots of assumptions in that post, the opposition is easy to overcome, you just pay the Natives their fair share and instead of opposing the pipeline they become vehement supporters - the strongest possible lobby group you can send to Ottawa is the Natives.

Here's an interesting piece of news nobody has yet, TCPL is putting the KXL assets up for sale (Line pipe, valves, pumps, motors, VFD's, camps, Etc), they have effectively cancelled the project, despite the fact that they will soon have a pipeline friendly president in office.

TCPL simply does not have a customer for the volume - same story as Gateway.

Mind you there is one difference, KXL was fully funded by TCPL, ouch, talk about sunk costs.

Gateway would've fucked us in BC hard if a spill ever happened, thus I agree with the rejection and approval of KM and Line 3.

IIRC reading through the notes on Gateway, in Alberta the liability would've been 100% covered by Suncor, yet when coming through BC, the liability was split and capped thus burdening the BC government. (Ie. fucking us tax payers in the end)

Regardless, oil is slowly picking up, and another pipeline proposal will come, it's just a matter of time.

Any coastal spill would be terrible, I would argue the consequences of a spill near the GVA would be more devastating than a spill near Kitimat.

With regards to spill clean up costs;

According to the NEB's Pipeline Safety Act, companies have unlimited liability when proven to be at fault or negligent, they are ultimately responsible for the safe operation of the asset and the costs associated with spill clean up in the event of a loss of primary containment.

Additionally, the absolute liability provision means that companies operating major oil pipelines will now also be liable for all costs and damages up to $1 billion, regardless of fault.

So hypothetically speaking, even if some lunatic bombs the pipeline and causes a spill, the first 1B in clean up costs are the responsibility of the pipeline company.

What's more likely to have a spill though, a brand new pipeline built to the latest standards and safety regulations, or a bunch of old train cars and tanker trucks?

That's why there's so much irony in the opposition to twinning the pipeline

The new line is probably 100X safer than the existing old line is

Yeah the obvious failure on the part of the protesters, oppose pipelines on the notion that it's bad for the climate while unintentionally supporting other shipping methods which are much more damaging to the climate.

Never mind the hypocrisy of protesters living a lifestyle that involves a tremendous amount of petroleum based product consumption.

Ultimately it's all about risk, perhaps there is slightly less risk of major spill catastrophe shipping by train simply due to the volume differential... but there is certainly far more long term airborne emissions related risk with shipping by train.

Meh, gotta suck this shit out of the ground now, 30 years from now it may be virtually worthless.. then we will see how great Canada's economy really is.

It wasn't only the natives that were protesting against Gateway. There was a lot of protest in Victoria and Vancouver as well against it. Many were campaigning against the pipeline.

Damn, I was hoping that KXL would go through too. It's kind of sad to hear that it won't be built, then again, it's been stalled for like 5 years now.

What, TCPL is selling KXL? Is this some nonpublic info?

The asset sale brochure was circulated to me a couple days ago, so I would have to say the company does not feel that it is "material" in terms of requiring a press release etc.

The brochure does not state anything about cancelling the project... though it would be reasonable to assume that is the case given the nature of the brochure.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1...CE5A785661.png

If anyone would like to buy insider info feel free to PM me lol

^^...i'll take 1 million worth of shares for each :troll:

I didn't expect to see a BC pipeline approved at all, so having at least 1 go forward under JT is surprising

nah, everyone in BC is just a cunt for not accepting it with open arms

edit....

i believe spills larger than that have happened at quick lube places, no one really hears anything about that. its been many many many years since ive worked somewhere with oil. i believe for gas (state) anything more than 100L must be reported. for most liquid petroleum products, like gasoline or lubricants, you dont actually need to report it until its over 200L. although emergency containment protocols are suppose to be put in place over 100L (if it happened in vancouver at a quick lube place or something, hazmat and fire department are suppose to be called)

Yeah it wasn't a huge spill or anything.. I wonder do trains and trucks spill this much all the time, but it just doesn't get reported?

aaaaaabsolutely. think of all the construction and industry going all around the province all the time. hell, just one 4x4 rig who punctures an oil pan can dump 15L+ of oil onto the trail, and i can only assume that happens on a daily basis (in a province almost 8x the size of england)

There must be a way to get that information accurately...

Spill half a drum of oil, gets news attention PogChamp

On a side note, from my experience / expertise with pipes, they should start using non-intrusive ways to measure flow. They could use instruments that go around the pipe that measure flow, and they are very accurate. These flow meters that I assume they are using can get gummed up and not read that well after a long period of time.

If you saw someone do an oil change and dump the oil into the street gutter, would you not make note of it at all? Just ignore it since it's such a small amount?

so much oil coming through BC and still gas is so expensive in van

Completely different scenario you ninny. One is a mechanical failure, which actually is somewhat concerning because they should have changed out the meter and associated piping before it failed. And one would be someone deliberately dumping oil where it shouldn't be, and used oil is far worse (contaminants are generally any of the following: Benzene, Toluene, Ethylbenzene, Xylene, Lead) than unused product.

They are required to report any release of oil of any amount from any of their pipelines (which is a good thing). And knowing where and how flow meters are installed it's going to spill on their own section of property which requires the area to be lined underneath where common maintenance may occur (ie. at a terminal or pump station).

So to answer your question, I would make note of someone dumping oil into a street gutter.

If one semi trailer full of oil wrecks it's 300x that amount dumped out, and it's not gonna be in a convenient place like the pump station. Not to mention all the smaller leaks that already happen but don't make the news because they're small and so frequent.

A few years back a semi caught a curb with its fuel tank and dumped probably 100L of diesel all over the parking lot. A cleanup team had to come in, and I'm sure it got reported to somebody, but definitely didn't make the news.

Did you seriously call him a ninny?!

PogChamp

:awesom:

:nyan:

Back in 2011 this was MUCH worse:
https://www.nanaimobulletin.com/news...k-crash-spill/

30,000L of diesel nearly wiped out the entire salmon run in the goldstream river for that year.

It's funny because I don't have an opinion on the pipelines one way or another. The whole reason I posted the story and started posting here is to get more information so I could have one. When I see people saying 100L of spilled oil is no big deal, I want to know why they think that. Is it because they know how much is normally spilled by trucks? Or is it because they support the pipeline no matter what, and will play down anything bad about it (gee where have we seen this kind of thinking before?)

So I ask some questions, and get called a "ninny".. that's where I just stop reading and click the fail button and move on, hopefully getting a smarter answer from someone else (like Underscore's and 68's replies).

So far it is looking like trucks and trains transporting oil is just as, if not more dangerous than a pipeline (especially a newer one). And people just want to support their "team" no matter what the facts are. If you're anti-pipeline, it's because you've been convinced of it politically, and will downplay anything negative about other options, and play up anything negative about pipelines, like a 100L contained spill.