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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
So question (to anyone):
Do you think that people who believe that there may be judgment (by a God) during life and after death are (more), (less), (as) likely to live a life of strong moral character as those who don't?
Also, What would be the disadvantages to living life as if there were a God?
Based on many experiences with both shitty atheists and shitty religious people, it doesn't make one bit of difference. Shitty people are just shitty. Same with good atheists and good religious people. Good people are good. If a shitty person became good because of religion (or the other way around) I'm all for it
As far as disadvantages, on a meta level I can't think of any. On a larger scale, it is holding us back from true enlightenment and advancement of humankind.
Based on your experiences, sure.
But if i went to the DTES today and asked every person i could find who was addicted to a substance, if they believed in God, what do you think that statistic would look like?
If i went to Kent or Matsqui and asked every inmate convicted of any form of assault if they had a belief in God when they committed their crimes, What would those statistics likely look like?
And do you think our more secularized society today is more enlightened (not advanced but enlightened) than it was say 50 years ago?
Do you think society is trending towards enlightenment?
__________________
Gold is the money of kings;
Silver is the money of gentlemen;
Barter is the money of peasants;
But debt is the money of slaves.
-Norm Franz
I don't think guy is saying you cannot have morals without God, he is saying that it is logically inconsistent to have morals without God. For example, evolutionary theory says the strongest shall survive, why then should anyone help the poor or the weak?
Based on your experiences, sure.
But if i went to the DTES today and asked every person i could find who was addicted to a substance, if they believed in God, what do you think that statistic would look like?
If i went to Kent or Matsqui and asked every inmate convicted of any form of assault if they had a belief in God when they committed their crimes, What would those statistics likely look like?
And do you think our more secularized society today is more enlightened (not advanced but enlightened) than it was say 50 years ago?
Do you think society is trending towards enlightenment?
Not sure what you are trying to say with your examples... In those cases, it's more likely that the criminals would be religious. Is that the point you're trying to make?
As for enlightenment, yes, for sure. The more we learn about the universe, the more enlightened we are.
If we just stopped and said hey, we already have everything figured out, it's "god's will", we're going to continue this shit we've been doing for thousands of years.
It's only getting better for humans, there has never been such a peaceful, harmonious time in our history.
Of course we fucked up the planet in the process so who knows how much longer we'll even be around.
religious values were considered progressive at a time. religion did help to spread moral values, but some of those values still need to evolve, and that's the issue. we as a society are creating new, more progressive values, but certain religious moral beliefs are trying to push them into regression based on thousand year old beliefs.
Based on your experiences, sure.
But if i went to the DTES today and asked every person i could find who was addicted to a substance, if they believed in God, what do you think that statistic would look like?
God's plan, God's plan
I can't do this on my own, ay, no, ay
There can be a happy medium between 'God's plan' and human agency. Those who think that you can do whatever you want and have your whole life planned out are probably under 30 yrs old.
Instead of playing mind games and thought experiments, here is some data.
When they committed their crimes. Not after
Quote:
Maybe it’s conversion. Ross explained that prisons collect information on religious affiliation from inmates as part of the intake screening process. That information gets stored as part of their case management. But, he added, “anywhere along the way, inmates can have their information changed to reflect a change in their religious status. Anyone can find god or lose god while in prison.”
Ed got me thinking: If few prisoners bother to change their religious affiliation in the official data, the theories I’ve described above are more likely to be relevant. But if prisoners are letting officials know about their change of faith (which I’m told by the BOP is relatively easy to do; it can be as simple as mentioning it to the chaplain), then it’s possible that prison conversion is influencing these statistics.
__________________
Gold is the money of kings;
Silver is the money of gentlemen;
Barter is the money of peasants;
But debt is the money of slaves.
-Norm Franz
Based on your experiences, sure.
But if i went to the DTES today and asked every person i could find who was addicted to a substance, if they believed in God, what do you think that statistic would look like?
If i went to Kent or Matsqui and asked every inmate convicted of any form of assault if they had a belief in God when they committed their crimes, What would those statistics likely look like?
And do you think our more secularized society today is more enlightened (not advanced but enlightened) than it was say 50 years ago?
Do you think society is trending towards enlightenment?
Literally the dregs of society, nice sample.
__________________
Dank memes cant melt steel beams
The human species figured out long ago that there is strength in numbers. It benefits the individual if everyone worked as a group. Hunting in a group gets a much bigger and more successful kill that will feed everyone in the village. That's where I think basic moral comes from. We live in a time of relative peace because instead of invading a country for their land and resources, it's much more beneficial to just trade with them. If we treat each other well, society as a whole will benefit.
If I see an elderly woman, I don't run over, punch her in the face and steal her purse; and neither does a religious person. But note that no religious person ever says "I would love to punch out that old woman, but I can't because the restrictions of my religion forbid it." Nobody is going to do something like that, because it's so obviously wrong. Rarely or never does any basically good person — and that's most of us — need religious commandments to stop them from doing something wrong.
__________________
"Damn fine car Dodge... Ran over me wife with a Dodge!", Zeke
i wasn't trying to claim that would be an example of mankind without religion if that's what you're thinking.
but if those people had some kind of a strong relationship with god before they made their choices, do you not think their outcome may have been different?
__________________
Gold is the money of kings;
Silver is the money of gentlemen;
Barter is the money of peasants;
But debt is the money of slaves.
-Norm Franz
Compared to the past, it's a great time to be alive. Many problems can't be fixed in a generation but I feel like great strides have been made since WWII.
However, I guess as people get used to their comfortable lives, they have no actual concept on how to live. There are no survival instincts anymore unless one was faced with a literal life & death situation.
We were doing pretty well until social media abuse started happening. It was great around Arab Spring time, not so much around Tide Pod Spring Meadow time.
Thank you.
This is Immanuel Kant's definition of enlightenment:
"Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-incurred immaturity."
I'm sorry, but we are, IMO, moving very much in the opposite of enlightenment.
Resilience of students has been plummeting. Their are multiple studies showing this. The inability to resolve even simple day to day issues.
The maturity level of your average 21y/o today is probably that of a 15 or 16 y/o of 50 years ago.
And mental health issues are much more prevalent today than they ever were.
IQ levels have also been lowering for the past 30 years.
The culture. The music. The entertainment. Even what we consider to be "the news" of our time.
Technologically advanced, sure. But far from enlightened
__________________
Gold is the money of kings;
Silver is the money of gentlemen;
Barter is the money of peasants;
But debt is the money of slaves.
-Norm Franz
I guess the closest i would categorize myself would be agnostic. That is, i don't know.
Knew this seemed sketch when you posted it. Your creation of this thread followed by subsequent posts leading up to your most recent post on this thread paints a much more conservative/religious picture.
Sorry about what happened to your mom, I hope she's proud of the conservative, god fearing, son you've become.
I won't attempt to assume I know what welfare is thinking, but based on this and other of his threads, he is a very confused, easily manipulated person who is really buying into a lot of the shit he comes across on youtube and podcasts.
If not, he's playing as a caricature of a scared, loathing "straight" old white man.
I see this thread has devolved to the standard issue e-psychology and personal attacks.
Gentlemen, thanks for the nuanced discussion. It's been 'enlightening'.
__________________
Gold is the money of kings;
Silver is the money of gentlemen;
Barter is the money of peasants;
But debt is the money of slaves.
-Norm Franz
I'd have to disagree a bit here... if you look at history and nations that orginially had no concept of, let's call them Abrahamic laws - rape, murder, theft, substance addictions, no concept of monogamy, and no care about human life has been rampant in these societies.
Examples - In Japan, suicide is considered honorable. The only reason suicide has been pushed down to everyone as being a bad thing is because of Christianity.
Africa - cannibalism, murder, rape - all the time
Look at modern Islamic states - twisted AF morals
I do agree with the animal comment - but I don't think you really thought that through.
Instinct pushes you to be Alpha or be dominated. Animals rape each other. Animals kill each other. Animals live by who's the strongest and baddest - which is human instinct too without rules..
my2cents...
My nikka you need to pick up a history book or three. There are multiple multiple atrocities and genocides committed in the name of christianity. This is the norm rather than the exception
My nikka you need to pick up a history book or three. There are multiple multiple atrocities and genocides committed in the name of christianity. This is the norm rather than the exception
oh c'mon.
__________________
Gold is the money of kings;
Silver is the money of gentlemen;
Barter is the money of peasants;
But debt is the money of slaves.
-Norm Franz
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!
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