Dealership charging insane amount for diagnostic

[see.lai]

Every dealership charges a minimum of 1 hour for engine lights, to begin with anyways.
I mean if you don't like it, you could go elsewhere.
How else do you pay for the techs, advisors, and so on.

[Hondaracer]

im not sure of the brand but my dad bought one for himself and me which is a wireless bluetooth OBD reader/performance monitor

you buy the plug-in adapter and then the App for your phone, it sync up in bluetooth and you can pull codes, as well as see your performance indiciators live. It can even predict quarter mile times lol

I've used it on my old ford truck, wifes infinity, other friends acuras etc. all worked great

[dn53]

Just saying at dealerships a lot more goes on than just scanning a code. fault data is recorded with freeze frame data, including counts and data pids at the time of fault. a general scanner will probably only pick up the universal code, but an oem dealer tool will pick up much more. This is my experience at a euro dealership.

The fault is taken through a test plan and analyzed from the tester, the old days of following a flow chart on paper are gone now. its all done electronically, and most of the time the technician is guided through using the software (sometimes the software actually condemns the faulty component as soon as the test plan begins). This process has to be followed if this is a warranty repair-- we are paid by how long we spent looking at each screen performing checks. Sometimes we are audited. Often we will perform continuity checks, short checks, scoping communication lines, which often involve re/re of components. if this cant be done in the 1hr, more time needs to be authorized.

The techs at the dealer probably are the most familiar with your vehicle. It just comes with experience of working on the same cars over and over again -- in turn they are more efficient. Yes, its true sometimes the diagnosis is done in less than 10 minutes, but at the dealer if a mistake is made during diagnosis you can sure bet they will be on the hook for it.

[welfare]

I love how people shit on the dealer but when there's a problem that they,and then multiple independent shops couldn't figure out, guess who they call.

The dealer can't say "well i think you should bring this one to the dealer".
They're the end of the line. They have no choice but to resolve your issue.

They do have the ability to contact engineering though. But in my experience, it's very hit or miss with them. Mainly because they're helping you from thousands of miles away.

[underscore]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

im not sure of the brand but my dad bought one for himself and me which is a wireless bluetooth OBD reader/performance monitor

Probably an ELM327. I get them for $7 shipped from dx.com, they usually come with a pirated copy of Torque too (though it's only $10 or so). I think even the free version can read codes, the full one is nice because I can check all kinds of readings (temps, pressures, O2 readings, etc) and see if anything is out of wack.

[teggy604]

yup not cheap, and the way I see it, its just going to get more expensive with all the lovely techs we have in the car now a days.

[twitchyzero]

Originally Posted by welfare

just as a couple examples; Dealerships need to obtain all manufacturer specific tools and equipment. Which is very costly. They also send their techs for training updates regularly to keep up to date with the product.
There's usually a lot more overhead involved with the dealer. However, the trade off is that you're getting service provided by someone who knows the vehicle well. Or at least should.

i'm not saying overhead is cheap, nor do I doubt some equipments can be pricey

but the OP drives an 8 year-old honda

can be tackled with the most basic toolset

[Badhobz]

Here's a minor oil change at Ferrari Maserati Vancouver.

You should feel better now.

[yray]

Originally Posted by Badhobz

Here's a minor oil change at Ferrari Maserati Vancouver.

You should feel better now.

u didnt go to the richmond one

[Whatheshrek]

If a Maserati oil change cost 900 can't imagine what a ferrari would cost

[welfare]

Originally Posted by twitchyzero

i'm not saying overhead is cheap, nor do I doubt some equipments can be pricey

but the OP drives an 8 year-old honda

can be tackled with the most basic toolset

That is true for sure. And i agree. Not all issues/vehicles warrant spending the extra coin. But then, the op was the one who called them.

Tbh, most people i see who bring their vehicles in for service either bought it there, and like that everything is in the database, know the advisors, or they've brought it somewhere else and their issue wasn't resolved.

[Badhobz]

Originally Posted by yray

u didnt go to the richmond one

They ain't open yet. All the customers are complaining the service center looks like a piece of shit and refuses to go there until they modernize it. Hahaha.

[Badhobz]

Originally Posted by Whatheshrek

If a Maserati oil change cost 900 can't imagine what a ferrari would cost

The same. Same engine, same labour, same parts (at least it's the same with my GT.. not that piece of shit Ghibli or that Maserati jeep).

[smoothie.]

For what it's worth the last time I paid for the CEL diagnostics they fixed the issue as part of the 1 hour charge.

Check CEL, clear CEL cleaned throttle body, idle re-learn.

If you could do it on your own, do it on your own. They're a business to make money, not friends.

[mr_chin]

Originally Posted by welfare

I really don't see how "it's robbery" when they have no idea what the cause of the MIL is at the point you're calling in.

Rates usually reflect the amount of overhead a shop incurs. That's dealership and independent alike.
just as a couple examples; Dealerships need to obtain all manufacturer specific tools and equipment. Which is very costly. They also send their techs for training updates regularly to keep up to date with the product.
There's usually a lot more overhead involved with the dealer. However, the trade off is that you're getting service provided by someone who knows the vehicle well. Or at least should.

Nor do they have any idea before coming up with a $140 charge. It could easily just be the wire or whatever. Until they know what it is, they shouldn't just charge you up the ass.

I mean, I'm not saying I don't want to pay the tech for doing their job, but they should price customers reasonably.

[Leung_Dog]

Originally Posted by mr_chin

Nor do they have any idea before coming up with a $140 charge. It could easily just be the wire or whatever. Until they know what it is, they shouldn't just charge you up the ass.

I mean, I'm not saying I don't want to pay the tech for doing their job, but they should price customers reasonably.

Originally Posted by mr_chin

Nor do they have any idea before coming up with a $140 charge. It could easily just be the wire or whatever. Until they know what it is, they shouldn't just charge you up the ass.

I mean, I'm not saying I don't want to pay the tech for doing their job, but they should price customers reasonably.

Thats why after diagnostics, they will only charge you for a wire to fix your issue. But that doesn't mean they don't spend $140 of work or (1 hour) to figure out it is just the wire that needs to be replaced.

On the flip side if dealers didn't charge you for diagnostic, You can go see them, get a free diagonstic and then decline all work and go to joe blow mechanic and get the work the dealer told you to do. What's in it for the dealer? They spent an hour doing work figuring out your wire broke, they didn't make any money and they still have to pay the tech, pay off the computer/equipment they are financing to do diagonstics, the service advisor you talked to, the lot guy that moved and washed your car, the free coffee you grabbed and whatever electricity it used to keep the lights and heat on.

The way I see it is if I was sick, I could google my symptoms and see that I have cancer, or I can go see a real doctor and find out I have the flu.

No different then you googling issues with your car and going to Lordco to buy parts and hope that it fixes it.

There is a reason that people get trained to be doctors, techs, mechanics etc.

I wouldn't expect to know what field you studied in so I don't expect to know what they got trained for either.

At the end of the day, its your car, if you want to roll the dice on if its fixed properly then I think its fine.

Don't need to make a thread about it.

[welfare]

Originally Posted by mr_chin

Nor do they have any idea before coming up with a $140 charge. It could easily just be the wire or whatever. Until they know what it is, they shouldn't just charge you up the ass.

I mean, I'm not saying I don't want to pay the tech for doing their job, but they should price customers reasonably.

an hour minimum is charging up the ass?
sounds pretty standard for most businesses offering a service

[tofu1413]

Dang.... $904.



Free on BMW for first four years

[mr_chin]

Originally Posted by Leung_Dog

Thats why after diagnostics, they will only charge you for a wire to fix your issue. But that doesn't mean they don't spend $140 of work or (1 hour) to figure out it is just the wire that needs to be replaced.

My total came out to be ~$455 to replace the wire, and all the diagnostics was exactly what I mentioned in my earlier post. Here is the breakdown of my cost.

$82 went into verifying CEL and code to be exactly what my ODB reader indicated. (this cost wasn't mentioned at all)
$274 to replace the knock sensor short cord and reset the light (I assume the diagnostic fee went into this)
$13.66 sub cord(?)
$36.88 for shop supplies
$48.50 tax

I sat in the lounge from 9:00 AM to nearly 12 PM. If you ask me, who have almost zero knowledge in car repairs or whatnot, does it take 3 hours to replace a knock sensor wire? I would say no.

Originally Posted by Leung_Dog

On the flip side if dealers didn't charge you for diagnostic, You can go see them, get a free diagonstic and then decline all work and go to joe blow mechanic and get the work the dealer told you to do. What's in it for the dealer? They spent an hour doing work figuring out your wire broke, they didn't make any money and they still have to pay the tech, pay off the computer/equipment they are financing to do diagonstics, the service advisor you talked to, the lot guy that moved and washed your car, the free coffee you grabbed and whatever electricity it used to keep the lights and heat on.

You can point out all the stuff that they might have to pay off but it does not say that on the receipt. When dealing business with customers, these have to be transparent. Why do you think cellphone companies was forced to be as detailed as possible when it comes to billing customers?

This is an issue with reasonable versus unreasonable. Imagine every time you walked into the supermarket, you have to pay an entrance fee of $20. To use the cart, $10 no refund. To use the basket, $5. Checking out with the cashier, $20 processing fee. Self checkout $20 administration fee. Anyone would complain.

In my case, I'm sure a shit ton of people agree that it is unreasonable.

Originally Posted by Leung_Dog

Don't need to make a thread about it.

Because it's revscene and you don't start a topic unless the community approves it right?

Originally Posted by welfare

an hour minimum is charging up the ass?
sounds pretty standard for most businesses offering a service

If that's what it is, then they should say it. Not just "diagnostic fee" and leaving the customer suspecting that they just wanna grab the cash outta your wallet. When they state diagnostic fee, and I have an idea how long it takes to diagnose a chewed sensor cord, I feel ripped off. If they just say, we charge 1 hour minimum for any service, then it feels different and an ease of comfort when I bring my car there to service.

Not sure if you are honestly backing up businesses that aren't transparent or just want to troll.

[mb_]

Just curious, which dealer was this?

[underscore]

Originally Posted by mr_chin

If you ask me, who have almost zero knowledge in car repairs or whatnot, does it take 3 hours to replace a knock sensor wire? I would say no.

Depends entirely on how the car is set up, and how thorough they were with testing. On some that wire might be easy to get to, on others it might be completely inaccessible. If they test drove it after and got it fully up to temp to ensure the problem was corrected that alone could chew up an hour.

[blackGS?]

[QUOTE=mr_chin;8936863]My total came out to be ~$455 to replace the wire, and all the diagnostics was exactly what I mentioned in my earlier post. Here is the breakdown of my cost.

$82 went into verifying CEL and code to be exactly what my ODB reader indicated. (this cost wasn't mentioned at all)
$274 to replace the knock sensor short cord and reset the light (I assume the diagnostic fee went into this)
$13.66 sub cord(?)
$36.88 for shop supplies
$48.50 tax

$82 looks like the diagnosis fee
$274 is the labour to install the knock sensor cord? V6 Accord I'm assuming the intake manifold needs to come off. Because they are usually located as close to the engine block as possible. You know to detect knocks.
Its not like you're replacing an oil dipstick that's in plain sight
$13.66 sub cord- looks like a part that needed to bs replaced? Or the actual chewed cord.
$36.88 - I agree this should be itemized. Whether it's a bolt, fluids etc...
$48.50 - well no one can escape taxes.

I sat in the lounge from 9:00 AM to nearly 12 PM. If you ask me, who have almost zero knowledge in car repairs or whatnot, does it take 3 hours to replace a knock sensor wire? I would say no.

You're not knowledgeable in car repairs yet you say it shouldn't take 3 hours?!?!?!
Try doing it next time. Hopefully you drop something in the intake port so you can try to fish out for 3 hours

[mr_chin]

Originally Posted by underscore

Depends entirely on how the car is set up, and how thorough they were with testing. On some that wire might be easy to get to, on others it might be completely inaccessible. If they test drove it after and got it fully up to temp to ensure the problem was corrected that alone could chew up an hour.

Didn't test drove it much because I log my kms every time before handing in the keys.

Originally Posted by blackGS?

You're not knowledgeable in car repairs yet you say it shouldn't take 3 hours?!?!?!
Try doing it next time. Hopefully you drop something in the intake port so you can try to fish out for 3 hours

Are you saying that it's okay to charge extra for their mistakes?

If a plumber come to fix your toilet, breaks a pipe and floods your bathroom, do you pay for their time to fix it?

If a painter comes to paint your house, painted the wrong panel, do you pay for their to time to fix it?

Do you own a business? I'll make sure to never pay for your service with that kind of mentality. Seriously, if you are paying for services because of their mistakes, you're an idiot.

[77civic1200]

Originally Posted by mr_chin

If you ask me, who have almost zero knowledge in car repairs or whatnot, does it take 3 hours to replace a knock sensor wire? I would say no.

1) We didn't
2) Your lack of mechanical knowledge is pretty obvious
3) I already explained where it is and why it takes so long
4) You would be wrong

[see.lai]

3 hours to replace a knock sensor cable is completely fine.

$82 to scan a code for you, check tsbs, confirm repair, grab a quote and availability on parts?
That's a discount, sounds like .6 only

1 to 1.5 hour to Re & in intake manifold.
.8 - 1 hour to repair wire. (give or take; each dealership charges differently).
Looking close to 2 hours of labor there @ $140/hr .. That's close to your $274.

Probably takes .3 to repair the wire anyways, but why would someone charge .3 to repair a wire?