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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
This would ban about 10% of China's population, and (I am assuming) probably includes the entirety of "the top 1%"
Curious on how US plan to obtained a truthful list of current CCP members. Will China willingly share a list of current CCP member?
It seems impossible to verify who is and is not a CCP member, will this be a honor system? Who has the right to determine who is and is not a CCP member, China or US?
Completely list of actual CCP member is hard enough to come by even for Chinese internal use, can't imagine this being share with foreign state so they can carry out their sanction.
I imagine this open a whole new can of worm in term of he said she said to determine who is a CCP member and who is not. Sounds like a whole lot arbitrage visa refusal base on rumors.
Most governmental elite in China were ban by China themselves anyways from travelling to place like USA and Canada prior to this, or need to obtain permission from CCP for even simple shit like sightseeing.
If you work for the government in China and you get to a certain level, you don't even have control of your own passport anyways.
This isn't going to hit those people as hard as USA think it will, it seems like it just lets USA find a new excuse to deny regular Chinese folks visa to the country.
You might be under estimating the long reach and deep knowledge of the US military
I believe the intelligence community is very very skilled at what they do, and has vastly more information than they're letting on.
At the same time, you have leadership in the country that ultimately decides what to DO with the information. This crucial step is part of the reason why they're trying to climb out of a massive hole, by shooting guns at it or something like that.
You might be under estimating the long reach and deep knowledge of the US military
I have no doubt that US has a list of who they assume to be CCP member.
But without verification from China, it can only be an assumption. CCP is a party that only exist within China, only their government knows 100% who is and is not a current member.
Intelligence is just that, information gathered to the best of their knowledge that might or might not be true.
For example, a lot of kids were inducted into CCP in china at a young age and never renew their membership when they've finish school. So they might have not been a CCP member for many decade.
What is stopping USA from revoking the visa/citizenship of someone from China that has been in USA for almost all their life because US intelligence has obtain information of them being in CCP as a toddler? Not to mention the amount of people in China with similar/same names.
How far will US go to verify their claims? Immigration already has huge power, this just seems to add one more ammo for them to deport/deny/revoke access for anybody originating from China base on any number of arbitrage things that might or might not have anything to do with CCP.
Lots of questions, but this is early stage. It just interesting to see how this unfolds. USA's immigration policy has a history of abuse and this sounds like another way to discriminate. Adding "you are a CCP member" to another list of insult to throw at people that looks like immigrants.
Don’t kid yourself. It’s never about the regular folks. It’s about those CCP “elites” who are benefiting (on or off the table) from the CCP system.
Many of them, like the daughter of Xi for example are known to US intelligence. Many of them have some serious dough stored in the US like real estates or whatnot. They have a lot to lose if they are barred from entering the US for life.
Don’t kid yourself. It’s never about the regular folks. It’s about those CCP “elites” who are benefiting (on or off the table) from the CCP system.
Many of them, like the daughter of Xi for example are known to US intelligence. Many of them have some serious dough stored in the US like real estates or whatnot. They have a lot to lose if they are barred from entering the US for life.
Sure the policy isn't aim at the regular folks. But how many will be affected by it is to be seen. Just like none of US's war oversea were meant to hurt regular folks. None of US's intelligence and the way they act upon it were ever meant to hurt regular folks. The entire middle east would like to disagree...
After they's went after all of Xi's family what is stopping them from labelling any other Chinese they want out of the country as communist. Just having this policy is making it ok to condemn people that are deem communist, and it seems like the only standard on whether this person is or is not a CCP member is based on US intelligence that China will never ever verify.
This sound very much like the cold war/red scare between the soviet and states.
I mean we are very adamant about holding China accountable, but USA isn't that morally perfect either. Are we putting faith in USA that their intelligence is 100% correct? Where is the weapon of mass destruction they said Iraq had? Or are we just going to blanket okay something with so many holes because of the current sentiment toward China?
What happened to targeting just the government and not the people? Those that think this will have no negative consequence and civilian casualty and that it will target exactly the group of people its meant to and nobody else.
We nitpick laws to see how it can be unjust to people whether intentional or unintentional, but when it comes to China suddenly we dont have to scrutinize? Than suddenly governments can do no wrong?
As long as the guideline is as simple as you are a CCP member if US intelligence said so, this a massive loophole that can and will be abuse by those in power.
This is the exact shit that China has been condemn for doing. Make a policy that regulates a certain portion of population, but only the government the last say or the final list of who qualifies as that specific portion of population to be policed.
I would love to be prove wrong thou, and that USA like the law abiding country it is, has a guideline to determine who is/is not a CCP member base on strict criteria that can be upheld and challenge in the court of law.
BTW that article only says USA is 'looking into' the travel ban. They are taking into account everything that is being discussed here. Just like trying to de-peg the HKD. They are trying to think of ways to hold CCP accountable without harming themselves and citizens. I think every single thing is being considered, probably including military.
I doubt we'll ever see such an extensive travel ban, or an attempt to de-peg, but it just shows that they're taking everything into consideration.
Things might be totally different under democratic leadership too, who knows? It's so weird that the US and UK politicians that I would never ever support are actually the biggest allies to citizens of HK and China, and the ones pushing these laws (although they are certainly bi-partisan, which is why they go into effect so easily). It's kind of
I imagine it would cause issues for the richer members who have financial interests in the US. For the more average person, given all we're seeing happen in the USA right now and knowing their history of strange immigration policies and deportations, why would they be so deadset on going there anyways? Especially now, when it's one of the epicenters of the pandemic.
I'm not saying I agree or disagree with it, I'm just curious how much it would really matter.
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Last edited by underscore; 07-20-2020 at 07:26 PM.
I imagine it would cause issues for the richer members who have financial interests in the US. For the more average person, given all we're seeing happen in the USA right now and knowing their history of strange immigration policies and deportations, why would they be so deadset on going there anyways? Especially now, when it's one of the epicenters of the pandemic.
I'm not saying I agree or disagree with it, I'm just curious how much it would really matter.
It wouldn't have that big of an impact for actual members that are really critical to the party. Middle management and up in the CCP is already restricted from traveling (both themselves and their family). Of course there are way around it, those with family living oversea are almost guarantee to already have a USA passport.
So really curious to read the fine line and how they intend to implement this so its A) actually impactful B) doesn't infringe on rights of their own citizen C) how they balance the effect of this policy on schools that depend on international students.
Majority of Visa holder are students, judging by how all all the school responded to Trump's international student executive order. This could be a sticky situation.
But like skinnypupp said, i guess this is just all bark now until the details are made public
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Quote:
Meanwhile, Beijing loyalist Tam Yiu-chung said last Monday that the 14-day compulsory quarantine could prevent some Hongkongers who live in the Greater Bay Area from casting their vote. He said the government should not rule out the possibility of delaying the poll.
Wow force quarantining to prevent the ability to vote is an option too eh damn
I imagine it would cause issues for the richer members who have financial interests in the US. For the more average person, given all we're seeing happen in the USA right now and knowing their history of strange immigration policies and deportations, why would they be so deadset on going there anyways? Especially now, when it's one of the epicenters of the pandemic.
I'm not saying I agree or disagree with it, I'm just curious how much it would really matter.
It's a different environment vs. the rest of the world really.
I have many friends and acquaintances down south, and they are usually either at the top of their game or are simply looking for an environment in a completely different scale.
They are 10x of what we have in population, and in major cities like LA/NYC/Chicago... everything do feel at least 10x. Say you want to pick a bar... if you can name 1 here in YVR, you can name 10 in NYC.
And for work, or study... you haven't seen a thing if you didn't go to US. My wife did graduated school here in UBC, and went to take a fellowship in the US... the competition and the social circle (either professionally or personally) is just at least 10x from here.
To put it into perspective, YVR is about the same as PDX... and PDX is the 25th largest metro in US. If Toronto were a US city, it would have barely made to no. 10.
So, whether one's looking for progress in career, experience in life or social... US really got the best of the best there.
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He was found guilty of a crime though (conspiracy to commit public nuisance) it's expected that you'd lose your position at a university as a result, and he was voted out by the university
To say everyone at the university, and the courts of HK is pro China, goes against ppl hailing HKU and the justice system for the past several months
He was found guilty of a crime though (conspiracy to commit public nuisance) it's expected that you'd lose your position at a university as a result, and he was voted out by the university
To say everyone at the university, and the courts of HK is pro China, goes against ppl hailing HKU and the justice system for the past several months
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