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Old 06-11-2019, 09:58 PM   #1
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Hong Kong extradition protests

Surprised there isn't a thread on this, yet.




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https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-48591001

Early on Wednesday protesters, some wearing face masks and helmets, blocked key roads around government buildings.

Police in riot gear responded by using pepper spray on protesters to disperse them and said they were prepared to use force.

The Legislative Council (LegCo) has now delayed the second reading of the bill.

The pro-Beijing LegCo released a statement on Wednesday saying that the meeting which was planned for 11:00 local time (03:00 GMT), would be "changed to a later time" adding that members would be notified of the time later.

Despite widespread opposition the government had said it will continue to push for extradition.

A final vote is expected on 20 June with LegCo expected to pass the bill, Hong Kong media report.

Thousands of protesters - mostly young people and students - took to the streets and attempted to block access to government buildings ahead of the scheduled debate of the bill.

"This behaviour has gone beyond the scope of peaceful gatherings," the Hong Kong Police Force said in a tweet on Wednesday.

"We call on [protesters] to leave as soon as possible... otherwise we will use appropriate force.

But one young protester, decked in a black mask and gloves, told news site AFP that they would not "leave [until] they scrap the law".

Critics of the bill of amendments to the extradition laws cite the alleged use of torture, arbitrary detentions and forced confessions in the Chinese judicial system.

The government has promised legally binding human rights safeguards and other measures it says should alleviate concerns.

Nevertheless, this has led to the largest rallies the territory has seen since it was handed back to China by the British in 1997.

Police said they are also investigating death threats made against Hong Kong's Chief Executive, Carrie Lam, and members of the justice department over the bill.

An all too familiar fight[
By Martin Yip, BBC News Chinese, Hong Kong

The roar of the crowds gathered in Hong Kong brings back memories of day one of the Umbrella Movement in 2014. The images are familiar too.

There are young people wearing surgical masks dragging iron barriers placed by the police in order to build their own barricade. The roundabout outside the Legislative Council Complex is filled with protesters.

Somebody threw a water bottle at police in riot gear guarding the entrance to the parliament and then they all stood up, waving their batons, shouting: "Who did that?"

Five years ago on the first night of the Occupy protest a similar scene erupted into chaos as police deployed tear gas canisters.

There have been no real clashes so far and protesters greeted the news that the debate had been postponed with jubilation. The council speaker gave no reason, but pro-democracy legislators told the crowd, that pro-Beijing colleagues just couldn't get in.

Postponing the meeting might defuse the situation for now, but nobody knows for how long - because the crowd is refusing to go.

A wide range of groups have spoken out against extradition to China in recent days including schools, lawyers and businesses, with hundreds of petitions also in circulation.

More than 100 businesses including a magazine have said they will shut to allow their staff to protest for freedom and nearly 4,000 teachers said they would strike.

A number of financial companies, including HSBC, have made flexible work arrangements for Wednesday.

Powerful business lobbies say they fear the plans will damage Hong Kong's competitiveness as a base of operations.

After the largely peaceful protest, a number of protesters clashed with police outside the LegCo building, leading to injuries and arrests.

Ms Lam warned against further mass protests and strikes, saying: "I call on schools, parents, institutions, corporations, unions to consider seriously if they advocate these radical actions."

They allow for extradition requests from authorities in mainland China, Taiwan and Macau for suspects accused of criminal wrongdoing such as murder and rape. The requests will then be decided on a case-by-case basis.

The move came after a 19-year-old Hong Kong man allegedly murdered his 20-year-old pregnant girlfriend while they were holidaying in Taiwan together in February last year.

The man fled to Hong Kong and could not be extradited to Taiwan because no extradition treaty exists between the two countries.

Hong Kong officials have said courts in the territory will have the final say over whether to grant extradition requests, and suspects accused of political and religious crimes will not be extradited.

The government has sought to reassure the public with some concessions, including promising to only hand over fugitives for offences carrying a maximum sentence of at least seven years.

Hong Kong has entered into extradition agreements with 20 countries, including the UK and the US.

Hong Kong was a British colony from 1841 until sovereignty was returned to China in 1997.

Central to the handover was the agreement of the Basic Law, a mini-constitution that gives Hong Kong broad autonomy and sets out certain rights.

Under the "one country, two systems" principle, Hong Kong has kept its judicial independence, its own legislature, its economic system and the Hong Kong dollar.

Its residents were also granted protection of certain human rights and freedoms, including freedom of speech and assembly.

Beijing retains control of foreign and defence affairs, and visas or permits are required for travel between Hong Kong and the mainland.

However, the Basic Law expires in 2047 and what happens to Hong Kong's autonomy after that is unclear.

Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Geng Shuang said on Monday that Beijing would "continue to firmly support" Hong Kong's government, adding: "We firmly oppose any outside interference in the legislative affairs" of the region.
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Old 06-11-2019, 10:16 PM   #2
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More than anything else, I am just sad about how far and how fast Hong Kong has regressed.

As commendable as the Hong Kong general public is for their restraint, I am very pessimistic about the outcome. The young kids / young adults will get their a$$es arrested and thrown into jail with criminal records for doing little more than assembling for the post-demonstration gatherings. A selected few will get slapped with ultra heavy jail sentences (7+ yrs) for doing anything more than just gathering. Crowds will get dispersed with pepper spray, and the police will get needlessly violent on protesters. I pretty much expected a similar immediate outcome as the Umbrella Revolution in 2014, except that the police will come down harder and harsher.

Except that the aftermath will be far more serious this time around. Numerous western countries (25+, I think?) have already issued warnings of how the passage of the extradition law will hurt business investments, effectively suggesting that they will withdraw their investment dollars and personnel from Hong Kong. The US has threatened to rescind the US-HK Policy Act that grants special privileges to Hong Kong (compared to Mainland China). With the guarantees in the US-HK Policy Act, the US would really consider Hong Kong to be no different than any other Chinese cities, and Hong Kong can pretty much kiss its economy, international status, as well as modern lifestyle goodbye.

To think that the former Pearl of the Orient will fall as low as it will...
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Old 06-12-2019, 12:33 AM   #3
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let see what happens
Head of police and others are issuing statements right now warning people to stop and not attend the site or else extreme measures will be used


Police are hell bent on clearing the area today
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Old 06-12-2019, 01:47 AM   #4
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Watching it on viutv atm it is clearing up, but slow

Mom was wanting to head back to HK for a bit too yikes
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Old 06-12-2019, 02:01 AM   #5
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When I moved here 13 years ago, I thought I'd stick around in perpetuity, since the constitution in place stated that China couldn't even begin to have any influence here until starting in 2047.

But no, they have been digging and digging away at Hong Kong.

People are saying that this is the return of the Umbrella Movement from 5 years ago, but I fear that there will be more damage this time. Things will get ugly. Police are scrambling to clear the area, but people aren't going to leave easily. Even if they can't get 10K people in place, it will spread throughout the city.

If the bill does pass, that's it for Hong Kong. It's done.

This makes me really fucking anxious and it's kind of driving me crazy
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Old 06-12-2019, 02:04 AM   #6
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It's getting ugly already.. Cops shot this guy in the head with a beanbag, apparently he lost consciousness on the way to the hospital. They are beating the shit out of everyone they can get their hands on, including men and women who have already conceded to them. Just stomping the shit out of their skulls






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Old 06-12-2019, 02:06 AM   #7
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Apparently LegCo is cleared... If they actually go through with this..... TONIGHT....

Edit: LegCo canceled for today... Round 1 is over.

They're going to keep doing this until the bill gets canceled, or they get run over by tanks.
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Old 06-12-2019, 02:31 AM   #8
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This is unbelievably infuriating -- when the protester has shown absolutely no signs of aggression, the cop went for the head shot:

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=2265750246978918

Subsequent videos seem to show the young man being OK, but the bag shot got him on his right eye and he was bleeding as well as unable to see (from the right eye). He is otherwise mobile and lucid though.

Both the HK gov as well as the police have gone mad. Riot police have their rules and procedures to follow when clearing the crowds out, but many of the officers are clearly not following protocol.
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Old 06-12-2019, 02:57 AM   #9
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the biggest concern is not if the bill will pass, but when it will pass
I really don't believe the gov't will back down from this.

This was uglier than 2014... people are prepared. diggin up bricks, masks, helmets, setting barricades in advanced etc.

sure, there are a bunch of peaceful protesters sittin at the back closer to bank of america building etc, but i don't think the police are gonna let this one get hte peaceful protest like occupy did.

It hurts to say, but the next 8-10hours are gonna be critical
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Old 06-12-2019, 03:28 AM   #10
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Police spraying pepper spray inside the MTR entrance... My wife just went through that station, but thank god she didn't have to leave the platforms, just transferring. She said it was actually less busy than usual down there.
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Old 06-12-2019, 06:09 AM   #11
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This is fucking crazy!!! the wife and her family is all up in arms about this shit too

But i dont understand what the huge deal is.

1) as long as you dont do any crime, this new legislation wont apply to you

2) so what if your extradited to China, it was bound to happen in 50 years after 1997 anyways.

3) HK is CHINA, it has been since 1997. This one country 2 system bullshit is just a farce. i dont think anyone would believe the CCP would honor these agreements and this gradual erosion of HK's status is pointless. Either just take over the damn thing already, or let HK live in their bubble in perpetuity. Why 50 years!? what that going to do anyways.

4) Economically HK has been on a downwards path ever since 1997 as CCP is more focused on developing Shanghai, Beijing, Shenzhen, etc. This gives HK even less leverage as the economical motivators move more to the core mainland cities.

Either just take everything over already and roll in your god damn tanks, or leave it the fuck alone. Let HK play their democracy game, it doesnt hurt overall chinese GDP and it shows that China is flexible on a world stage.
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Old 06-12-2019, 06:17 AM   #12
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With this new law about to be passed, those who are arrested for this protest will be tried in China ... double doom.

"Do you hear the people sing?
Singing the song of angry men .... "
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Old 06-12-2019, 07:10 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Badhobz View Post

1) as long as you dont do any crime, this new legislation wont apply to you
Sorry, but that is the worst possible argument you could ever have on ANY law, let alone such an open ended one run by a fucked up government like China.

Just ask the Canadians who were arrested for completely made up reasons, all because China had one of their spies arrested in Canada. These people still have yet to be heard from since. We don't even know if they're still alive.

And from there, we'll have whatever other insane law China decides to add. Oh you made a Winnie the Pooh meme? Boom, never heard from again. Then comes the public surveillance, which they already do in many parts of the country.

Don't want to be mean here, but give your head a shake

Reading the rest of your post wants me really mad, so I'll just stop here. Fucking hell
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Old 06-12-2019, 07:17 AM   #14
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This is fucking stupid as I've been following this. China wants to get their hands on everything now. The police are put in the worst situation possible since they have to do their job, but at the same time they likely don't agree with the extradition.
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Old 06-12-2019, 07:35 AM   #15
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i remember when the public was sympathetic with the police in 2014

i guess not any more
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Old 06-12-2019, 07:36 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Badhobz View Post
This is fucking crazy!!! the wife and her family is all up in arms about this shit too

But i dont understand what the huge deal is.

1) as long as you dont do any crime, this new legislation wont apply to you

2) so what if your extradited to China, it was bound to happen in 50 years after 1997 anyways.

3) HK is CHINA, it has been since 1997. This one country 2 system bullshit is just a farce. i dont think anyone would believe the CCP would honor these agreements and this gradual erosion of HK's status is pointless. Either just take over the damn thing already, or let HK live in their bubble in perpetuity. Why 50 years!? what that going to do anyways.

4) Economically HK has been on a downwards path ever since 1997 as CCP is more focused on developing Shanghai, Beijing, Shenzhen, etc. This gives HK even less leverage as the economical motivators move more to the core mainland cities.

Either just take everything over already and roll in your god damn tanks, or leave it the fuck alone. Let HK play their democracy game, it doesnt hurt overall chinese GDP and it shows that China is flexible on a world stage.
Except china consider criticism of the communist party a crime..
you will probably be locked up and charged for treason if you start writing a book about tiananmen square or taiwan Independence in china

I remember hearing news about a businessman who was fined & jailed because he accidentally printed a map that doesn't show taiwan as part of China...
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Old 06-12-2019, 07:43 AM   #17
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The rich, powerful, educated will just immigrate to other countries same with people who have skills (same thing happen just before 1997). My aunt saw this coming way back aroudn 2000 I think and pretty sold all of her asset and move back to Vancouver even quitting her 7 figure quit job (in HK dollar). So many friends I know who left Van after graudate are quitting their jobs and moving their family back to Canada. Is not that this new bill is the way how China is tightening its grind on everything.

The thing with this new bill is that say you posted some on social media about China and if the Chinese gov doesn't like it they can just grab you legally back to China and throw you in jail for whatever reason they like.

There are no laws in China. If you are rich, powerful, and knows people law don't apply you to in China. Heck you can rape, run someone over with your car and kill him/her and nothing will you happen to you as long as you have the right person bought. If you got no connections you can't even get away with littering if the cops wants to arrest you. There are so many CCTV in China now literally they gov can track exactly where you are at any given point in time.

I fear after this many many people will leave HK and leaving those that are unable to leave struggle.

EDIT ON A sidenote China just pass a new bill about the new regulations they have on TV shows. is dumb lol. If you want to to air any anicent times TV shows it have to follow actual history and if it is fantasy TV show they can only air it once and can't do any remake (there a ton of Chinese TV shows that follow books so with those shows you can only air it once). Ancient shows can't be made up story. TV shows can not in anyway degrade the gov (which is always the case anyways), bad guy must stay bad till the end(so they can say after serving their jail be be the good guy or you can't show them missing their family or feel sorry for what they do.). And a bunch of stuff. Pretty much this will kill any creativity for any TV shows in the future just to please the current gov.

Last edited by Mr.HappySilp; 06-12-2019 at 07:50 AM.
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Old 06-12-2019, 08:34 AM   #18
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Since I'm too upset/drunk to elaborate eloquently, I'll just link to this reddit post that I HOPE will illuminate the issue for people who don't know any better. If you really wonder why this is such a big issue when "HK is China anyway" (it's not) and "if you don't break laws, you'll be fine" (you won't) then you need to read this.

You really don't seem to understand. China's rulers and government aren't just "a bit different" from Canada or US. They are a fascist regime. They give no fucks about human rights. Seeing responses I've seen in this thread shouldn't be that surprising, coming from a place of privilege of being in Canada. But other parts of the world are not like Canada. And not just the "evil" theistic governments and dictators. China is REALLY FUCKING BAD if you care about human rights and freedom and liberty, and GETTING WORSE BY THE MINUTE. Hong Kong has never been its own sovereign nation, but it has never had to deal with being under control of tyranny. Not like this. Not for a long time.

Quote:
To understand why Hong Kongers are so adamantly against this extradition law, you only need to realize that justice system in China is a joke. A very cruel joke.

A few examples of how fucked up China is:

1) The Chief Justice of China's Supreme Court had this to say about the rule of law:

"China's courts must firmly resist the western idea of “constitutional democracy”, “separation of powers” and “judicial independence”. These are erroneous western notions that threaten the leadership of the ruling Communist Party... We have to raise our flag and show our sword to struggle against such thoughts."

2) The Chinese government can casually kidnap anyone with impunity. Dong Yaoqiong live streamed herself splashing ink on a poster of Xi Jinping and saying "I oppose Xi Jinping's dictatorship and the Communist Party's oppression."
Later that day the Chinese Gestapo went to her apartment and took her away.

Her last social media update before her account was wiped:

"Right now there are a group of people wearing uniforms outside my door. I’ll go out after I change my clothes. I did not commit a crime. The people and groups that hurt me are the ones who are guilty."

She was never heard from again.

Her father went online to call attention to her kidnapping. He and a supporter of his were also taken away.

This is the live stream showing her father and his supporter being taken away

3) Another case of government kidnapping: Causeway Bay Books is a bookstore in Hong Kong that sells books that are banned in China. People who worked there were kidnapped in Hong Kong by the Chinese Government and secretly shipped to China for interrogation. The Chinese wanted to know who from China had bought banned books from the bookstore. Hence the kidnapping. The manager of the bookstore was locked up in China for months and was only allowed back to Hong Kong on the promise he would retrieve a customer list from a hard drive in HK and give it to China. He reneged on his promise once he crossed the border and hold a press conference instead. Now he's in exile in Taiwan.

A shareholder of the bookstore was kidnapped in Thailand in 2015 and is STILL being locked up in China to this day.

4) In China writing fictions can get you a long sentence: Chinese writer sentenced to 10 years in prison for writing homoerotic novels

This is the kind of fascist regime HK government wants to extradite its own people to.
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Old 06-12-2019, 08:49 AM   #19
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^^ But let's be honest though no one believe HK will stay the same in 50 years. People just don't expect the changes to take place so fast and being force down on the citizen on HK (or Chinese living in HK).

This whole one country two system is doom from the start. With the European union falling apart, US economy not doing well and China is on the raise. Which country is going to try to stop China. US but they aren't very successful. All of these country protesting is just for show. If they want to actually do something then do something instead of issuing statements which doesn't do shit. Most country is too deep in China's pocket to dare to do anything about it.
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Old 06-12-2019, 09:09 AM   #20
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this weekend will be fun...

weekend riots, weekday business

work hard play hard

cops are on a powertrip, doesn't help when all the british trained superiors are retired, now we are just dealing with idiotic baby boomer generation
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Originally Posted by Badhobz View Post
This is fucking crazy!!! the wife and her family is all up in arms about this shit too

But i dont understand what the huge deal is.

1) as long as you dont do any crime, this new legislation wont apply to you

2) so what if your extradited to China, it was bound to happen in 50 years after 1997 anyways.

3) HK is CHINA, it has been since 1997. This one country 2 system bullshit is just a farce. i dont think anyone would believe the CCP would honor these agreements and this gradual erosion of HK's status is pointless. Either just take over the damn thing already, or let HK live in their bubble in perpetuity. Why 50 years!? what that going to do anyways.

4) Economically HK has been on a downwards path ever since 1997 as CCP is more focused on developing Shanghai, Beijing, Shenzhen, etc. This gives HK even less leverage as the economical motivators move more to the core mainland cities.

Either just take everything over already and roll in your god damn tanks, or leave it the fuck alone. Let HK play their democracy game, it doesnt hurt overall chinese GDP and it shows that China is flexible on a world stage.
you sound like a mainlander, tell me im right
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Old 06-12-2019, 10:14 AM   #23
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This last one was a gif posted on reddit. Some say it might actually just be water as the guy who got sprayed looked mostly annoyed more than pained.
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Old 06-12-2019, 10:20 AM   #24
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This last one was a gif posted on reddit. Some say it might actually just be water as the guy who got sprayed looked mostly annoyed more than pained.
maybe they got the mixture wrong LOL, fucking part time PC doesn't give 2 shits as long as hes getting paid
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Old 06-12-2019, 10:33 AM   #25
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This is fucking stupid as I've been following this. China wants to get their hands on everything now. The police are put in the worst situation possible since they have to do their job, but at the same time they likely don't agree with the extradition.
I don't actually agree with this view. Instead, I'd say that the majority of the police force, regardless of where they rank, are primarily pro-establishment now. Whether it is by selection / recruit, or by brainwashing during cadet training and the prevalent attitude in the work environment, I think the vast majority of them honestly believe the protesters are the troublemakers and the enemy. Otherwise, how can anyone possibly and intentionally fire a headshot on a non-violent protester standing a good distance away from the officer?

There is definitely blood on the police's hands.
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