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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
Sad anytime anyone dies, great bball player and I'm sad for his wife and his daughter who died and everyone on the flight.... but having a hard time with all the great family man/person comments? Guess we just forget when someone's an adulterer/possible rapist when they're rich and popular.
Or we can simply choose to focus on the good instead of one’s transgressions (just like people will hopefully do for you and I when we pass)...positivity, brother!
Kobe was basketball in the 90s and I, like many others, will miss him; RIP to a legend.
https://www.latimes.com/california/s...mer-pilot-said
The crash was more likely caused by bad weather than engine or mechanical issues, he said. “The likelihood of a catastrophic twin engine failure on that aircraft — it just doesn’t happen,” he said.
Judging from a public record of the flight path and the wide debris field, Deetz said that it appears the helicopter was traveling very fast at the time of impact, about 160 mph
https://www.latimes.com/california/s...mer-pilot-said
The crash was more likely caused by bad weather than engine or mechanical issues, he said. “The likelihood of a catastrophic twin engine failure on that aircraft — it just doesn’t happen,” he said.
Judging from a public record of the flight path and the wide debris field, Deetz said that it appears the helicopter was traveling very fast at the time of impact, about 160 mph
you think it was fog blind?....Yikes.
Even with complete engine failure, helicopters can still glide safely using autorotation, like the seeds of a maple tree. Pilots are trained to land using only autorotation for emergencies.
Pilot error and weather are more likely. Pilots are known to push limits or ignore regulations. For a local example, you might recall that pilot who landed among a crowd at that off the wall house party with bikini women and exotic cars. That pilot and helicopter were literally operating out of the hangar next door to the shop were I was working.
If it ends up being more than weather and pilot error, I would be interested to hear the thoughts from my last employers, as the S-76B was one of the more common helicopters and components they repaired/certified/sold.
Sad anytime anyone dies, great bball player and I'm sad for his wife and his daughter who died and everyone on the flight.... but having a hard time with all the great family man/person comments? Guess we just forget when someone's an adulterer/possible rapist when they're rich and popular.
Innocent until proven guilty? Or rather still not innocent after the case is dismissed, huh?
Even with complete engine failure, helicopters can still glide safely using autorotation, like the seeds of a maple tree. Pilots are trained to land using only autorotation for emergencies.
Pilot error and weather are more likely. Pilots are known to push limits or ignore regulations. For a local example, you might recall that pilot who landed among a crowd at that off the wall house party with bikini women and exotic cars. That pilot and helicopter were literally operating out of the hangar next door to the shop were I was working.
If it ends up being more than weather and pilot error, I would be interested to hear the thoughts from my last employers, as the S-76B was one of the more common helicopters and components they repaired/certified/sold.
It won't be found to be technical, by accounts from a former pilot it was a very well maintained aircraft. A simultaneous twin engine failure is highly highly unlikely. Based on the ADS-B data and radio calls here's a breakdown of what happened:
- The pilot is flying Special VFR. What that means is the conditions are below VFR minima and he had to get special permission from controllers to fly visually. You'll note that Burbank Tower states they are IFR.
- The helo is forced to hold outside Burbank controlled airspace due to IFR traffic. One aircraft has to abort landing and do a go-around. Reason unknown but my guess is the fog is worse than forecast and the pilot did not have visual with the runway when he hit his approach minimum altitude.
- Pilot asks to maintain SVFR and is navigating by using highways and land marks.
- At 51 seconds on the ATC video a special weather report (SPECI METAR) is given for Burbank showing the wind is dead calm at 0 knots, visibility is 2 1/2mi and the cloud ceiling is overcast at 1100ft. The helo is holding at 750-850ft.
- After transitioning through the Burbank control zone he climbs to 1400ft (above forecast ceiling). Van Nuys Tower again states the ceiling at 1100ft with same vis.
- At this point it's unclear if he's gone on top of the fog/cloud layer or if he's in it. There's the possibility the fog layer stopped further inland but that's unclear at this time. Van Nuys Tower asks the pilot to advise when in VFR conditions, he is supposed to be visual at all times. If you go in to cloud or lose ground reference you are supposed to turn around and go back to known conditions and advise tower that you are in that situation so they can help you. He does not have a VFR 'On The Top' clearance meaning he is well on top of the cloud layer and is in clear air with otherwise good visibility without being able to see the ground.
- At 3:30 of the ATC video the weather METAR for Van Nuys shows the same conditions as Burbank. Socked in with 2 1/2mi vis and an 1100ft ceiling.
- The pilot has now climbed to 1500ft and requests to turn south to find the 101 Highway to continue on his route. Van Nuys asks for confirmation that he is in VFR conditions and he says yes.
- As soon as the turn is made he accelerates from 120 knots to 140+ and descends to as low as 1100ft going towards the mountains. He is so low that Socal Terminal cannot get him on flight following radar. He never makes contact with Socal to check in on frequency and receive instruction. Why is anyone's guess right now, but he confirmed the frequency before switching off Van Nuys.
- The pilot flies for five minutes in poor visibility without checking in on frequency for flight following (safety net).
- As the helicopter enters the mountains you have to go frame by frame on the flight tracker video to see the pilots panic pull. He's doing 130 knots, probably sees terrain at the last second and pulls. The altitude spikes from 1200ft to 2100ft with the helicopter climbing at 1600ft per min and down to 110 knots airspeed. Suddenly it is in a 4200ft per minute descent and accelerates to nearly its maximum speed of 155 knots and transponder data ends. It's falling forward in to the ground.
Piecing that info together I think he was flying in very low vis, decided to commit despite not having any radio contact or help from flight following radar control, and he clipped the terrain. The helicopter then flew/fell off the other side and down to its final resting place. The investigation will tell all but this looks like it may have been a very preventable accident, and a gruesomely bad one at that. I fear that if my theory is correct the helo may have been broken open on the first impact and people may have been ejected and/or been alive for the fall to the ground. Only part of the aircraft is shown in the crash site where the brush fire started. They also only found five bodies originally and hours later updated it to nine once they confirmed the flight manifest had nine people listed.
I hope I'm wrong. RIP to all. Never push the weather.
Thanks again to JD13 and others with aviation experience; I find it such an interesting topic.
__________________ Do Not Put Aftershave on Your Balls. -604CEFIRO Looks like I'm gonna have some hot sex again tonight...OOPS i got the 6 pack. that wont last me the night, I better go back and get the 24 pack! -Turbo E kinda off topic but obama is a dilf - miss_crayon Honest to fucking Christ the easiest way to get a married woman in the mood is clean the house and do the laundry.....I've been with the same girl almost 17 years, ask me how I know. - quasi
also with lot of these gold digging predators,they could easily be any famous person till proven guilty,its just a game to them for the all for the mighty dollar.
Makes you wonder why his flight was even in the air in the first place given that other chopper operators such as LAPD air support were grounded because of the fog at that time.
sometimes the private operates gets so much pressure; "yo mr. pilot, my buddy _______ here has to get a a basketball game, are you shitting me saying you can't fly. Don't you know who ____ is" etc.
JD13 always brings valuable insight to these threads.
Hard to believe just a few posts above, we have some clowns trying to shit on a tribute thread because a guy had sex with someone he wasn't married to
Just as easy to say people who revere someone without question just cuz they were famous/good at a sport and think their death means something in their own life is a “clown” too depending on your perspective.
I said it’s unfortunate, but I just honestly don’t think he was such a great person as everyone seems to think he was. RIP everyone involved, sorry for having a not as overly generous an opinion on his positive contributions to the world as most people.
Last time I checked this was a discussion forum not a tribute forum. You’re entitled to your opinion of the man free of name calling as much as I should be, I just can’t give him a pass for buying his way out of a rape charge.
he was a family man in the sense he coached his daughter and her club team
this was the team they were gonna play against today, their response after learning of the news
to me it's no different than hours after paul walker dies on a way to charity and be like 'oh hey let's not get distracted by all the praises that he once could've been charged with statutory rape'
remember when that doctor got dragged off that united flight and everyone felt sympathetic yet the media just had to dig up the dirt on him?
Just as easy to say people who revere someone without question just cuz they were famous/good at a sport and think their death means something in their own life is a “clown” too depending on your perspective.
I said it’s unfortunate, but I just honestly don’t think he was such a great person as everyone seems to think he was. RIP everyone involved, sorry for having a not as overly generous an opinion on his positive contributions to the world as most people.
Last time I checked this was a discussion forum not a tribute forum. You’re entitled to your opinion of the man free of name calling as much as I should be, I just can’t give him a pass for buying his way out of a rape charge.
Well thank god we have people so open to share their judgement of our heroes
Well thank god we have people so open to share their judgement of our heroes
Shrug... sorry your hero has a shady past, I can’t love him cuz of what he very likely did.
I’m glad your life clearly benefited in some way from his or he motivated you somehow through his professional career. I’m happy for anyone who benefited from his example on the court. I didn’t and I disagree with the unquestioned reverence bestowed upon him as I don't think you get a pass for stuff like that no matter who you are. C’est la vie.
Shrug... sorry your hero has a shady past, I can’t love him cuz of what he very likely did.
I’m glad your life clearly benefited in some way from his or he motivated you somehow through his professional career. I’m happy for anyone who benefited from his example on the court. I didn’t and I disagree with the unquestioned reverence bestowed upon him as I don't think you get a pass for stuff like that no matter who you are. C’est la vie.
Not all of us can be as perfect as you, sorry. Hope you get judged as fairly when you go
Pretty interesting analysis JD. Before everyone jumps on the pilot, helicopters are actually regulated to operate in much lower visibility then fixed wing aircraft. It’s probably been 10 years since I opened a regulation in regards to special VFR, but 1-3miles for fixed wings is what I remember, and I want to say it’s 1/2mile for the spinny machines (I’ll just go ahead and assume this is due to their maneuverability, and ability to slow down). The fact he was still buzzing around at a fairly good clip makes me wonder if he had a very quick change in visibility (or complete over reliance on technology and its “terrain mapping”). If one were “lost”, they would be moving at a snails pace. Being too familiar with the terrain can be a bad thing at times (over confidence).
It also upset police who suggested the speed in which TMZ had reported the news -- a little more than an hour after police said they received reports of a downed aircraft -- outpaced that of officers who were seeking to notify the family members of victims.
Very disrespectful. How would the fucking paparazzi at TMZ like it if TMZ reported their deaths first before LAPD make the notification to their next of kin?
Like Shaq, I am in pain now. Kobe is one of my favorite basketball players ever.
__________________
Go Canucks go!
Last edited by pastarocket; 01-27-2020 at 07:34 AM.
It also upset police who suggested the speed in which TMZ had reported the news -- a little more than an hour after police said they received reports of a downed aircraft -- outpaced that of officers who were seeking to notify the family members of victims.
Very disrespectful. How would the fucking paparazzi at TMZ like it if TMZ reported their deaths first before LAPD make the notification to their next of kin?
Like Shaq, I am in pain now. Kobe is one of my favorite basketball players ever.
Yeah, the amount of disrespect is shocking.
I don't know much about basketball but I know his death impacts many fans and in general is just a sad thing to happen.
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