This is fuckn disgusting. Inviting children to a drag queen event at Coquitlam libr

[hud 91gt]

That study is in regards to social transition. Not hormone therapy or surgery which leaves you without a choice when more clear state of mind. Super interesting study though. The guys I work with are concerned about lifelong altering states in a time where hormones are out of control, overall pressures are at an all time high. Generally just undeveloped overall. Stating parents do not have their kids best interest in mind is pretty bold statement.

[mikemhg]

Anecdotal stories are just that, anecdotal.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5227946/

"proportion of transgender adults in the United States is 0.39%, or 390 per 100 000"

You take that stat, and of those that are children, you have an even lesser portion of the population. Kids shouldn't be taking hormones during puberty in my opinion, allow them to get older to come to that decision.

What mystifies me is why is this subject that literally encompasses less than a percentage of the population (even less when you include children) is making such massive headlines in the media?

Of all the fish to fry in society right now, how has this become the primary issue?

This is why I can't take people seriously on either side of the equation here. It's a non-issue.

[whitev70r]

I think the movement started with 20's and 30's yo wanting to change genders. That's fine ... assuming that they are mature enough, wrestled with it for a majority of their life, know what they want, sought counselling, and are adults. Then this movement gets all the attention, publicity, etc. and it enters into the education and healthcare system. Now kids in elementary school starts wondering with all their normal adolescent gender questions, around puberty, then this body altering treatment and surgery is made available to them ... anyone who says, 'Wait a minute here' is seen as a bigot.

[MarkyMark]

I don't think this subject is anyones primary issue, at least on this forum, but it's worth a discussion to see what everyone thinks about it. At the end of the day anyone with a kid might have to face this at some point, hearing different views on it isn't the worst thing.

[whitev70r]

No, and I appreciate the civil tone so far (edit, the last couple of pages, not the first 10 ) ... instead of the vitrol polarization in the media. But let's really think about it and consider it in real life and not 'if I had a kid' ....

[westopher]

Originally Posted by whitev70r

I think the movement started with 20's and 30's yo wanting to change genders. That's fine ... assuming that they are mature enough, wrestled with it for a majority of their life, know what they want, sought counselling, and are adults. Then this movement gets all the attention, publicity, etc. and it enters into the education and healthcare system. Now kids in elementary school starts wondering with all their normal adolescent gender questions, around puberty, then this body altering treatment and surgery is made available to them ... anyone who says, 'Wait a minute here' is seen as a bigot.

I don't think suggesting a delay makes someone a bigot. I think the bigot label started in here, justifiably so, directed at the guy who thinks a drag queen reading to kids is going to fuck them or train them to become gay.

[underscore]

Originally Posted by whitev70r

Many said they realized only after transitioning that they were homosexual, or they always knew they were lesbian or gay but felt, as adolescents, that it was safer or more desirable to transition to a gender that made them heterosexual. Others said sexual abuse or assault made them want to leave the gender associated with that trauma. Many also said they had autism or mental health issues such as bipolar disorder that complicated their search for identity as teenagers.

It sounds like what people really need is better support and understanding as teens and young adults. What a concept.

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by StylinRed

This discussion is reminding me of a local case a couple years back where the BC supreme court said 13yr old children are old enough to decide they can transition and begin treatment on their own volition without the need of parental consent, and also ruled that if any parent tried to convince or persuade their child not to seek out therapy on their own would be deemed domestic violence

The father of the child was arguing that not all the science is being considered and that his child wasn't old enough to consent to such medical treatment

The father was slapped with a domestic violence charge iirc bcuz he refused to accept his child's new pronouns

What reminded me of this story is just how vehemently ppl are split on the issue, where even discussion is taboo and just garners hateful/derogatory comments by both sides

There are different degrees of transitioning and treatment - eg. a teen can take puberty blockers which are reversible if they change their minds later. There's also treatment that's not invasive like therapy. These cases aren't almost always not about a full gender transition that's irreversible - the science has advanced a lot in the past 10-20 years.

I'm old so sometimes I do feel the discomfort with the terminology that's used today (like calling a spouse "partner" which I find odd or using pronouns which I don't use) but this is just a continuation of a long journey of identification for people. 40-50 years ago women had to use either Miss or Mrs and it was tied to social pressure of marriage and worthiness as a person - today it's much more common to use Ms. because it's no one's business if a woman is married or not.

Same for interracial relationships. I dated a white girl in high school (early 90's) and it was such a rarity that some Chinese immigrants guys would come ask me what my secret was in getting with a white girl cause they wanted in on it too. There was an East Indian guy who had to hide his relationship with a white girl cause everyone said his parents would disown him if they found out (sorta joking). That stuff still happens from time to time now but it's rare compared to how commonplace it was back then.

I'm glad times are changing and we're more welcoming of people now.

[unit]

ive actually been using the term partner for a long time now. i was in a relationship with a feminist for 4 years so i guess that's what you get. i still use that term today

[Hondaracer]

Whenever anyone says partner I figure you’ve got some weird arrangement I don’t care to learn about lol

[westopher]

That's because you are an honorary boomer though.

[StylinRed]

Originally Posted by Great68

Do they really think a kid will "grow out" of wanting to transition?

I guess those are the same people that think conversion therapy actually works...

What research there is shows that those dealing with gender dysphoria experience great mental distress, the current solution is to "just give em what they want" because it's the easiest solution and arguably the one with the highest success rate, it's like how some countries just give drug addicts heroin instead of actually treating their addiction

That doesn't mean it's the only solution though, and that doesn't mean there won't be even better solutions in the future where people can experience relief to their distress sooner and healthier.

Except given how radical people become over the topic, how much people want to stamp out discussion, and how people get "cancelled" over their views, there may never be better solutions due to fear of persecution for pursuing research

Originally Posted by Great68

Well the reality contradicts your fears.
https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-...ater-rcna27253

The article quotes several contradictory studies to the Princeton one though NBC discredits the older studies as being... Old (one of the contrary studies is just a year older than the Princeton one)

The Princeton study is intended to be a 20yr study so it's not yet complete

This simply shows a lot more research is needed however research which is contrary to the current social narrative is attacked

But as Mike says this affects such a small percentage of the population so why really give a fk /shrug

It makes more sense to go after Pedos wanting to make it socially acceptable to be Pedos (or as they call it MAPs)

[punkwax]

Father of teens here.

One of my daughter’s friends has changed her name a few times now (not legally) and at one point wanted to be referred to as “they”.

Internally I think it’s a bit much but I’m not going to be a dickhead to a 15 y/o girl (confirmed most recent gender identity) so I do my best to accommodate. I’ve messed up during her “they” phase and she (this is safe to say now) didn’t seem to care as I’d imagine it happened 100x a day.

Are we having fun yet?

[Hondaracer]

Sounds like you should be in jail bro

At my last job I trained a person, and was their quasi manager for 2-3 years who we initially figured was gay but then eventually we had the most disgusting/awkward “reveal” I’ve ever seen where we had a area wide call to say this person was now being referred to as female as they were transitioning etc. (when I say disgusting not towards this person but towards how the company thought this was the route to go. I honestly came away from this call/meeting feeling like there was a chance this person would commit suicide because how poorly this was handled)

So fast forward I’m kinda this persons Main contact at work, probably the person they communicate with the most. No problem, I like this person and this situation doesn’t change anything I’m not bothered with it etc.

However.. what I found to be a confusing situation lol.. so this person, a male transitioning to female.. was dating and then ultimately engaged to another male transitioning to female… and she (my colleague) would refer to her parter, as his fiancé/wife.. so.. a trans-gay marriage? I dunno lol

Anyways… faceless globo Corp eventually made it so uncomfortable for this person they went on numerous stress leaves and eventually left and management basically said to me in private they were glad they were gone.. nice… :/

[westopher]

See this is why people are still actively fighting to be treated with respect in terms of gender identity. Even with your boomerism I like to jab you about you actually get that you just respect people, but so many don't.

[CivicBlues]

Everytime I see the title of this thread I think of this:

[donk.]

Originally Posted by punkwax

I’ve messed up during her “they” phase and she (this is safe to say now) didn’t seem to care as I’d imagine it happened 100x a day.

Are we having fun yet?

I was at a supplier a year ago, and there is a "woman"/man working there, probably my first encounter at a supplier

After ordering everything , she asked if I needed anything else, and automatically I said "that's it my man"
Followed by the below look from myself

Spoiler!

At this point I knew I messed up, I just grabbed my shit and got out of there

Still buy stuff off her to this day and seems to be fine, I think these people know theres going to be weird occurrences

It's going to take a full generation, or two, before this stuff is "normalized", assuming it's taught in schools (is it taught in schools? / Middle / highschool?)

[murd0c]

Personally I think people should have the rights to do and like what/whom they want. The big thing is they need a much thicker skin and if someone calls them the wrong thing just ignore it rather then getting so fricken but hurt and offended over every little thing.

[westopher]

Overreacting and getting offended isn't some exclusively trans thing lol. You've got straight people ready to fucking start a war over a rainbow on a beer can.
The really fucked up thing is that the trans person is offended by the perceived disrespect (reasonable)
Where the other person is offended over the show of respect for someone that isn't exclusively them (not reasonable)
Who's the real snowflake?

[mikemhg]

Kids will be kids, as I said.

When you're in high school or college, people tend to have very radical and unrealistic ideas about society.

Once you age, begin working, and join normal society much of those thoughts and ideas come to a rude awakening.

Hence why I don't see much value in debating what high school or college kids are thinking what the world should essentially look like. None of these things translate well into actuality.

The "theys" of the world will become shes or hims in no time.

[whitev70r]

Yah, as I hinted at, the calling people he/she/they in workplaces is really secondary. It doesn't quite hit you personally. This becomes infinitely more personal if you are a parent of a teenager between 13-16 and one day he/she/they says, 'Mom, dad .. I've started the process of transgendering.'

Thanks for this @punkwax and yes, of course, no need to be a dickhead to your daughter's friend. Curious though, any observations that you've seen or comments you can make as this is somewhat close (friend of daughter) but yet a bit distant enough to maybe have some thoughts. Eg. do you know how parents are dealing with it? Notice any major stresses in your daughter's friend's life? How are other friends handling this?

Originally Posted by punkwax

Father of teens here.

One of my daughter’s friends has changed her name a few times now (not legally) and at one point wanted to be referred to as “they”.

Internally I think it’s a bit much but I’m not going to be a dickhead to a 15 y/o girl (confirmed most recent gender identity) so I do my best to accommodate. I’ve messed up during her “they” phase and she (this is safe to say now) didn’t seem to care as I’d imagine it happened 100x a day.

Are we having fun yet?

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

first of all i see skinnypupps reading comprehension has deteriorated lol.

Originally Posted by Great68

Well the reality contradicts your fears. Studies point overwhelmingly to those who choose to transition, even at young ages, keep their identities and experience no regret.

This study of 317 who started transitions between 3 and 12, 94% were happy with their transisions 5 years later. Only 2.5% re-transisioned back to their birth sex.

https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-...ater-rcna27253

So I mean I guess you can hold out hope your kid is that special one in that 2.5% group, but statistically speaking that'd be unlikely and you'd probably be doing more harm than good by preventing them from starting early.

In adults it's even lower, something like 0.8% experience transition regret, with 0.1% actually de-transitioning.

ummm 2.5% is a huge number lol. and remember we're not dealing with some precision manufacturing where the degree of error allowed is like 0.01% or some crazy shit.

we're talking about human beings.

hell i can even make it about money. if i told you im going to take 25 dollars for every 1000 dollars you have... it's just a 2.5% error no biggie. how would you feel lol.

going into surgery... yah don't worry there's only a 2.5% chance of failing... uh yah no thanks bro.

how about they raise your taxes and interest rates by another 2.5%.

i think you get my drift.

2.5% is fucking huge dude.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

Originally Posted by mikemhg

Kids will be kids, as I said.

When you're in high school or college, people tend to have very radical and unrealistic ideas about society.

Once you age, begin working, and join normal society much of those thoughts and ideas come to a rude awakening.

Hence why I don't see much value in debating what high school or college kids are thinking what the world should essentially look like. None of these things translate well into actuality.

The "theys" of the world will become shes or hims in no time.

yeah... so why are we giving them more power? lol...

I completely agree with you by the way.

but yeah, why are we giving them MORE influence and power? what kind of clown world are we living in?

the real issue is that they're making it a religious following, where these topics are the most important and they become hyper radicalized and obsessive over these topics, where every facet of their life is some form of following of these narratives.

they dont do anything else, or think about anything else. they're like... little fuckin zealot propaganda machines.

talk to any professor in STEM in academics, and ask them how careful they have to be when they speak. especially ask the biologists.

academics are literally pumping out millions of "appeal to authority" woke soldiers. they're so fucking weak and stupid it's outrageous.

there's no other nation where the people WITHIN that nation want their own nation to fall LOL. only the fucking west is like that. think about how contradicting they are. they hate capitalism, they think it's the root of all our (west) problems... they want communism, yet they want to self identify as whatever they want and have full individual authority over themselves. and this is like the standard student from elementary to highschool to university now, everything they quote and say is brainless and has no thought, it's 100% appeal to authority and their professors are their gods, and school is their church.

yeah mike makes a good point where they'll get hit hard with reality when they enter the workforce. but... wouldn't you rather have millions of kids be ready instead of be taught some whack extreme shit?

[320icar]

Originally Posted by Ulic Qel-Droma

if i told you im going to take 25 dollars for every 1000 dollars you have... it's just a 2.5% error no biggie. how would you feel lol.

You can have my $5 dude

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

yeah... it totally doesn't influence the youth at all...

https://www.statista.com/chart/18228...fying-as-lgbt/



some dimwit is going to come out and argue that "yah well the traditionalists just didn't come out of the closet"... yeah ok buddy, to a certain degree, but not to the ridiculous numbers that are shown here. 7.2/100 people identify as LGBT, and rising as time goes on... any dumb statistics analyst can tell you SOMETHING is off.

19.7% of gen Z identify as LGBT... NINETEEN POINT SEVEN PERCENT...


also... what's even more fucked up...

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/twitt...203838369.html

someone mentioned earlier in this thread about something about pedos... i only came to realise what they were talking about today.

"youth attracted person"

and there are actual doctors and people defending these people.

you guys have heard of a slippery slope right? it's hard to identify when you've already slipped half way down the hill.

the evolution of perversion becomes deeper and deeper with each cycle.