[v_tec]

Aside from the ID.4 (and bz4x), is there any other EV that offers AWD and still qualify for the full $8k incentive?

Any other upcoming models to be released next year?

[JDMDreams]

I don't think there is any, to get the $8000 your purchase price must be under like $53000 I think. And usually what gets you the none awd version. That's why everyone gets base model 3. As even paying more for another colour will disqualify you for $8000. No model y qualify for $8000 discount as their MSRP is too high. So at the end of the day you're paying like $15000 more for a model y which is the same chassis as model 3. Model y is like $3000 higher base price, plus no $8000 discount, plus more tax on top.:QQ:

[tegra7]

I don't think there is any, to get the $8000 your purchase price must be under like $53000 I think. And usually what gets you the none awd version. That's why everyone gets base model 3. As even paying more for another colour will disqualify you for $8000. No model y qualify for $8000 discount as their MSRP is too high. So at the end of the day you're paying like $15000 more for a model y which is the same chassis as model 3. Model y is like $3000 higher base price, plus no $8000 discount, plus more tax on top.:QQ:
This is not true.

https://newcardealersgoelectric.ca/eligible-CleanBC-vehicles
Please Note: Effective June 22, 2019, vehicles with a MSRP of over $55,000 will not be considered eligible for the program. For the CleanBC Go Electric Vehicle Rebate Program purposes, optional accessories and other fees (such as destination, documentation, etc.) do not affect the vehicle's eligibility for the rebate. As long as the vehicle model and trim level are included in the list of eligible vehicles, and the trim level's MSRP is equal to or lower than $55,000, the vehicle is eligible.

[JDMDreams]

From Tesla

Federal Point-of-Sale Rebate
Up to $5,000 rebate for individuals purchasing vehicles with a base MSRP* under $45,000 before including delivery centre fees. Trims of the same Model qualify up to MSRP* $55,000 before delivery centre fees. View Transport Canada’s website for eligible trims.

Provincial and Territorial Incentives
Please refer to the program websites for the latest information and eligible vehicles.

British Columbia
Up to $3,000 rebate for vehicles with a base MSRP* under $55,000.
Track available funds in real time.

From gov of Canada

https://tc.canada.ca/en/road-transportation/innovative-technologies/zero-emission-vehicles/list-eligible-vehicles-under-izev-program

A model 3 rwd is currently $56380 on Tesla site with no options. Even on the Canada site, it doesn't list any models besides the base rwd 3 that qualifies for $5000. You might still get the $3000 from BC gov.

But no way you will get an awd. As I just specced one and the rebates don't show up on the payment screen. And you can't even get a rwd model y anymore.

[lilaznviper]

the 56k includes the 1.3k destination on top and ac fee and tire fee so it is under the 55k but the wait is so long.

i wonder what the rebates are for next year if they change anything

[tegra7]

^$56380 includes destination fee($1280) and air con fee($100) which brings MSRP to $55000. Destination fees were not included until recently.

https://www.tesla.com/en_ca/model3/design#overview
If you click at the bottom of the page it shows Federal incentive of -$5000
and BC incentive of -$3000 for the Model 3 RWD.

$55,000cad is $43,648.54 so it is still eligible for the Federal incentive.

[jaaagman]

the 56k includes the 1.3k destination on top and ac fee and tire fee so it is under the 55k but the wait is so long.

i wonder what the rebates are for next year if they change anything

How long is the wait for a Model 3 now?

[BIC_BAWS]

How long is the wait for a Model 3 now?June 2022, as of last night

Sent from my SM-G781W using Tapatalk

[heleu]

Anyone here put a deposit on an Ioniq 5? The trim just below top still qualifies for the full $8K incentive.

[tegra7]

Tesla Model 3 rwd price just went up to $59990 including destination. No longer eligible for incentives.

https://www.tesla.com/en_ca/model3/design#overview

[dark0821]

^ fack lololol... welp....


low key was joking to my wife that I am thinking of selling the miata and move into a tesla 3 base (one of the huge pulls for it was the 8K incentive), I even said you never know when the incentive is gonna run out or tesla might jack up the price....

[!Aznboi128]

Tesla Model 3 rwd price just went up to $59990 including destination. No longer eligible for incentives.

https://www.tesla.com/en_ca/model3/design#overview
Well there goes the biggest incentive.

Ioniq5 and EV6 are next on the list.

[JDMDreams]

I saw a id4 last week and it looks very ordinary, basically looks like an old rounder rav 4. If you didn't know about cars it's just like any regular SUV.

[lilaznviper]

guessing some people are now canceling their orders since it was a lot of savings with the rebate.

[Teriyaki]

guessing some people are now canceling their orders since it was a lot of savings with the rebate.

I think maybe the opposite. Can't verify, but have a friend that put in an order a few months ago. They said they would be locked into the old pricing that still qualifies them for the incentive even though their delivery date is in January.

[jinxcrusader]

Can confirm, my partner's Model Y was locked in at a lower pricing several months back and we have since received 3 emails notifying people of a price increase on subsequent Model Y's.

[Koflach]

When you place the order, the price is locked in. They will not change it on you.

[GLOW]

i thought they're looking to bring the price down, not up...

isn't that going to really affect their bottom line, considering all the competition entering the market? not sure how that will work now, unless they're trying to be the premium EV brand?

[JDMDreams]

Maybe because they want less orders? As they are already backed up, where's the rav 4 prime? :accepted:

[freakshow]

Maybe because they want less orders? As they are already backed up, where's the rav 4 prime? :accepted:

This is possible since they seem to prioritize higher trims (maybe higher margin?). Delivery date of new orders of base Model X is 2023 right now I think.

[Koflach]

They're probably raising the price of the new cars as in a lot of cases, the Model 3 is selling for above MSRP on the secondary market. Why shouldn't Tesla try to capture some of the money that the secondary market is getting?

When I sold my 2018 M3 Long Range RWD a few months ago, Tesla offered me $32k and another company offered me $49k and listed it for $52k. The demand for the M3 is through the roof right now.

[Teriyaki]

.... The demand for Anything on 4 wheels is through the roof right now.

Fixed

[twitchyzero]

Why shouldn't Tesla try to capture some of the money that the secondary market is getting?

they should ask 70k for base model so people can mine with them :derp:

[lilaznviper]

going to put in a deposit on a prius prime for the wife. Sales person says eta 4-5 months for the car now. Asked him about the rav4 prime and he said good luck lol

perfect time since my mazda lease is up around that time.

[Manic!]

https://i.redd.it/wt5w6nglil081.jpg

[tegra7]

:lol

[Koflach]

https://i.redd.it/wt5w6nglil081.jpg

That is criminal.

[Manic!]

That is criminal.

And that's also why Tesla will stay in the lead. You can literally order a Tesla in 5 minutes sitting in your undies. Saw another story of a guy trying to get a Mustang mach E at MSRP. He could not get one from any dealer. Talked to a ford exec and he exec told him to buy a Tesla.

When I went to a Ford dealership to ask about a Mach E pre order I could not get a straight answer on the price. He could only give me a rough price.

it's a pain in the ass to order a car from a traditional manufacturer.

[68style]

It really depends, my buddy bought a 2022 Subaru BR-Z recently and it couldn't have been a simpler process... emailed the dealership, dealer gave him the price and deposit details, told him an approximate delivery date... he ordered it... it showed up within 2 months and 3 months earlier than they even promised. Done and done.

They even let him claim the $500 holiday discount Subaru is offering on their vehicles. No markups, no pushing at all...

Of course there's going to be advantage takers when you're looking for the same thing as everyone else. Just another pig at the trough in that case.

I mean yah Tesla is simple, but they're also not delivering your car for 8 months from now minimum. That's a pretty important detail to most people. The people ripping others off and taking advantage are around with Tesla... they're just in the used market.

[twitchyzero]

didn't tesla raise prices 3 times in the past weeks though

that's why people can get away with asking 15% more than msrp for 2nd hand

https://www.iseecars.com/used-cars-cost-more-than-new-study

[tegra7]

And that's also why Tesla will stay in the lead. You can literally order a Tesla in 5 minutes sitting in your undies. Saw another story of a guy trying to get a Mustang mach E at MSRP. He could not get one from any dealer. Talked to a ford exec and he exec told him to buy a Tesla.

When I went to a Ford dealership to ask about a Mach E pre order I could not get a straight answer on the price. He could only give me a rough price.

it's a pain in the ass to order a car from a traditional manufacturer.

Exactly what I did while laying in bed one morning.

[Koflach]

didn't tesla raise prices 3 times in the past weeks though

that's why people can get away with asking 15% more than msrp for 2nd hand

https://www.iseecars.com/used-cars-cost-more-than-new-study

I'm not sure about them raising the price 3 times but they did raise it a bit. I bought my first Model 3 in 2018 and the LR RWD was $67,700 at the time. about 6 months later they reduced the price on their cars by about $5k CDN, this hurt the resale of my car. In June I sold my 2018 for more than it was worth and bought a 2021 Dual Motor before they raised their price, I paid $67,480. The new price for the same car after they increased the price is a whopping $68,290. That's an $810 increase that people are complaining about.

It's still cheaper than the approximate $73k price of the Dual Motor when it was first available.

[JDMDreams]

Another thing with Tesla is there's only one price. There's no MSRP price, dealer discount, dealer mark up, buddy guy best deal bro sign today price. :heckno: I don't have to waste time to find the car at 10 different dealers, if they have the colour and spec I want, for best price, finance rate. Everything is done before I have to commit to the car.

[twitchyzero]

I'm not sure about them raising the price 3 times but they did raise it a bit.

at least 3 times

https://www.iphoneincanada.ca/tesla/tesla-hikes-model-3-price-in-canada-again-second-increase-in-14-days/

since that article it's 3k more to get 7km extra range at the expense of 0.5s in 0-60

again i think it's justified given the screwed up market..i was just too optimistic they'd stick to the 35k usd target elon had set even now with the volume production

[lilaznviper]

went into JP DT toyota and put in a deposit for a prius prime. i figured my wife driving it about 12km round trip for work, plug it in once every week should be enough and barely will use the gas. ETA is about march - april for the car

[Koflach]

at least 3 times

https://www.iphoneincanada.ca/tesla/tesla-hikes-model-3-price-in-canada-again-second-increase-in-14-days/

since that article it's 3k more to get 7km extra range at the expense of 0.5s in 0-60

again i think it's justified given the screwed up market..i was just too optimistic they'd stick to the 35k usd target elon had set even now with the volume production

Sorry, I don't have the point of reference for the SR+ as I purchased the Dual Motor. If they increased the price on the SR+ $1400 and the Dual Motor by only $810, it makes the Dual Motor an even better purchase.

[ilovebacon]

100k for a rav4? You can get a model y with that price with auto pilot

[tegra7]

100k for a rav4? You can get a model y with that price with auto pilot

Or a MK4 Supra

[underscore]

You can literally order a Tesla in 5 minutes sitting in your undies.

When will it arrive though?

[JDMDreams]

Before Toyota's?:pokerface::lawl:

[trollface]

Well, you are comparing a company with like 5 skues to a company with 100 across all their markets.

Instead of making 3 kinds of door handles, you're making 50.

[jaaagman]

When will it arrive though?

Last I heard the wait time for a Rav4 Prime was 2-3 years :lawl:

[lilaznviper]

the sales person i talked to for the prius prime told me its about 3-4 years wait time now.

I asked him about the bz4x and he had zero info on it. even thought he said its suppose to be out in mid 2022 lol

[Manic!]

When will it arrive though?

At least Tesla will let you get in line. Some companies will just laugh at you.

Well, you are comparing a company with like 5 skues to a company with 100 across all their markets.

Instead of making 3 kinds of door handles, you're making 50.

Yet the company that makes 3 door handles is worth more than the company that makes 50.

[tegra7]

Well, you are comparing a company with like 5 skues to a company with 100 across all their markets.

Instead of making 3 kinds of door handles, you're making 50.

-2 for the 86 & Supra.

[M Speed]

Well, you are comparing a company with like 5 skues to a company with 100 across all their markets.

Instead of making 3 kinds of door handles, you're making 50.

Please name the 100 models toyota or whichever single auto manufacturer makes.

[68style]

^ Someone woke up today and decided to be overly literal

[M Speed]

^ Someone woke up today and decided to be overly literal

Nah…just calling out unnecessary Tesla bash.

[Manic!]

WTF!?!?! Elon. The top of the line cyber truck was the 3 motor when they had pre orders. Now he is saying they added a 4 motor and the 4 motor will be produced first.

What about all the people with pre orders?

[twitchyzero]

he thanks them for the free pr and loan

[mikemhg]

Fuck Elon is such a tool :lol

https://gizmodo.com/elon-musk-calls-for-end-to-government-subsidies-now-tha-1848173699

[trollface]

Par for the course for all big companies really.

[twitchyzero]

https://www.autocar.co.uk/sites/autocar.co.uk/files/styles/gallery_slide/public/images/car-reviews/first-drives/legacy/screenshot_2021-12-14_at_06.09.41.jpg?itok=OokUxhje

EV mini FJ, EV taco, EV MR2 thing hnnnnnnnnnggggggggggggggg

cant wait for the 5 year waitlist and $100k ADM

[MarkyMark]

The EV Taco looks sweet but yeah, it'll be 100k here so what's the point lol

[Alpine]

Nice! It’ll be 2035 before I’ll be able to find any of these on the lot! But sarcasm aside, a lot of really great, clean designs here.

[EvoSpider]

IONIQ 5 has arrived in Vancouver

https://imgur.com/a/ZuPaaHK

[JDMDreams]

The first picture kinda makes it look weird, and still can't judge how big it is. But most EVs seem kinda big.

[Teriyaki]

Ioniq 5 legitimately has me interested. Think they really killed it with the design of it.

[TypeRNammer]

Wow the Ioniq 5 looks pretty good, very futuristic.

[whitev70r]

Ioniq 5 legitimately has me interested. Think they really killed it with the design of it.

It does look pretty good ... any concern that it is Hyundai or do you think they have gone over the hump in terms of quality and reliability? Had a friend with 1st gen Genesis coupe, paint in bumper started to go and it looked like sh*t after a few years.


Nio Eve ... concept.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkoDqS9yhRE

[SiRV]

Hyundais have been great for years now. Have a tesla model 3 LR and had an ioniq phev before that and loved it. Way less problems than my tesla

[inv4zn]

Stood next to an Ioniq 5 at openroad hyundai today, they are bigger than they appear in media.

The design is definitely a bit out there, and no idea how it'll age, but it is striking for sure.

[SumAznGuy]

Hyundais have been great for years now. Have a tesla model 3 LR and had an ioniq phev before that and loved it. Way less problems than my tesla

What problems did you have on your Model 3?

[tegra7]

Saw an Ioniq 5 fall off a car carrier on hwy 99 In surrey on Friday. If your delivery was unexpectedly delayed this might be why.

[JDMDreams]

Mmmm yes quite :notbad: they should build these along highway 1

Audi's Charging Lounge Is The EV Equivalent Of Flying Private
The high-class lounge has six chargers offered by reservation only

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/ecbf015f6a7d8c7b93cfde4792d98177.jpg

https://jalopnik.com/audis-charging-lounge-is-the-ev-equivalent-of-flying-pr-1848260130

[TypeRNammer]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/insideevs.com/news/556643/toyota-bz4x-price-uk/amp/

Across the pond, Toyota UK announces the BZ4X will have a starting price of $42,000 pounds, converted about $72,000 CAD

Just a matter of time now until the Canadian pricing is announced

[68style]

Mmmm yes quite :notbad: they should build these along highway 1

Audi's Charging Lounge Is The EV Equivalent Of Flying Private
The high-class lounge has six chargers offered by reservation only

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/ecbf015f6a7d8c7b93cfde4792d98177.jpg



I hope this never happens, it’s clear that the government is slowly heading towards building a society where they eventually eliminate driving for all the p00rs and force everyone except for wealthy people to use ride share and Uber type services for everything… this is just an example of it being enacted today.

[!Aznboi128]

For those who have EV vehicles I'm curious.

Do you find yourself charging them everyday?
Do you like to keep your battery topped off?
Do you find yourself using the complete range of the battery?
Do you use only 20-80% of the charge capacity?

I'm curious because this just might be me but I find myself only using the top 20-30% of battery and I tend to plug it in every day as I only have access to a 120 outlet.

[JDMDreams]

Do you find yourself charging them everyday? Yes
Do you like to keep your battery topped off? Yes, at reduced limit around 80% of max capacity
Do you find yourself using the complete range of the battery? Maybe once a week down below 100km remaining range
Do you use only 20-80% of the charge capacity? Yes

Basically just plug it in when ever you're home so you know that the car is ready to go the next day. Keeps the battery topped up especially in this weather, where the battery drains faster. And if you only have 120v it's most likely not even gotta be fully charged every day, you might be leaving the house around 60 70% charge, depending on how much you drive a day.

[tegra7]

Do you find yourself charging them everyday? Always plug in when I get home(NEMA 14-50)

Do you like to keep your battery topped off? Yes

Do you find yourself using the complete range of the battery? Never

Do you use only 20-80% of the charge capacity? Hardly use more than 35%

[TypeRNammer]

For those who have EV vehicles I'm curious.

Do you find yourself charging them everyday?
Do you like to keep your battery topped off?
Do you find yourself using the complete range of the battery?
Do you use only 20-80% of the charge capacity?

I'm curious because this just might be me but I find myself only using the top 20-30% of battery and I tend to plug it in every day as I only have access to a 120 outlet.

1. Yes I charge everyday because I only have access to an 110 outlet

2. Yes I keep the battery sitting at 90%

3. Most of the time we use a quarter of the range but due to the cold weather, battery gets depleted quicker.

[SumAznGuy]

For those who have EV vehicles I'm curious.

Do you find yourself charging them everyday?
Do you like to keep your battery topped off?
Do you find yourself using the complete range of the battery?
Do you use only 20-80% of the charge capacity?

I'm curious because this just might be me but I find myself only using the top 20-30% of battery and I tend to plug it in every day as I only have access to a 120 outlet.

2018 Leaf with the 42 kwh battery pack.

Do you find yourself charging them everyday? Yes, 120 V
Do you like to keep your battery topped off? Yes
Do you find yourself using the complete range of the battery? Generally no but after moving, I am driving a lot more and numerous times have gotten down to 10% or less.
Do you use only 20-80% of the charge capacity? yes quite a bit and with the winter, I have the heat on more.

[freakshow]

Do you find yourself charging them everyday? Nope
Do you like to keep your battery topped off? Don't really think about it
Do you find yourself using the complete range of the battery? Nope
Do you use only 20-80% of the charge capacity? Don't really think about it

I'm curious because this just might be me but I find myself only using the top 20-30% of battery and I tend to plug it in every day as I only have access to a 120 outlet. Since I have 240v at home, I really don't think about the range or keeping it topped off or anything. We just use the car, if I notice its low (sometimes 60%, sometimes 30%), I'll just plug it in. I probably think about charging less than i think about my gas tank on an ICE car.

[JDMDreams]

That's the thing I like about ev, just go home and plug it in like your phone. Don't have to worry about the gas price, if gas is sold out. Car has more range than when you parked it last night. Imagine lining up and standing in the freezing wind to gas up your car for 10 mins.

[MarkyMark]

I filled up my truck today, somehow I'm still alive and better yet, I know I still have a sack.

[Spectre_Cdn]

That's the thing I like about ev, just go home and plug it in like your phone. Don't have to worry about the gas price, if gas is sold out. Car has more range than when you parked it last night. Imagine lining up and standing in the freezing wind to gas up your car for 10 mins.

10 mins. LUL

Prepay for gas on my phone, takes about a min to fill up and then I'm gone. You gotta be foolish to line up 10+ mins for gas when there's a "shortage" or if the price drops by three cents.

[!Aznboi128]

That's the thing I like about ev, just go home and plug it in like your phone. Don't have to worry about the gas price, if gas is sold out. Car has more range than when you parked it last night. Imagine lining up and standing in the freezing wind to gas up your car for 10 mins.
Hmmm maybe if I had 150L tank it may take that long but generally it's a few minutes and out.

That said, I have sat at Market Crossing for 4 hours charging a Nissan Leaf. Shitty thing was another vehicle pulled into the other port slowing down the charge rate lol.

[Manic!]

Was on the Departure bay ferry to Vancouver in my parents model Y. Was Nice to have the heat ncluding the seats and the screen on the whole time. Used about 15Km of range.

[Doubl3_H]

Guy at Hyundai said 12 months wait for a top ioniq5, all cars on the lot are all spoken for.
$62k + 15% for a ultimate
Drove one today and it was surprisingly quiet inside.

[!Aznboi128]

Guy at Hyundai said 12 months wait for a top ioniq5, all cars on the lot are all spoken for.
$62k + 15% for a ultimate
Drove one today and it was surprisingly quiet inside.
Hyundai says it's quieter than the Y

[teggy604]

Watch the news yesterday. Hydro says on Xmas eve and Xmas day lower mainland broke records consuming over 10,000 MW of electricity. Still urging public to use electricity on off peak hours. Funny thing is, they have been doing this for years and we still not even fully electric yet. Wait till everyone is charging their electric cars at night.

[68style]

Well the population keeps increasing too, higher density housing… what do they expect

[Traum]

If everybody were really charging at night, I don't think the problem will be too severe even if a far higher number of EVs are adopted. But you just know that not everyone can charge (their EVs) at night. So it is still gonna be a shxt show unless Hydro ups its power generation capacities.

Also, I'm sure Hydro is going to entice its customers to switch over to a peak / off-peak billing system to encourage distributing more load to the off-peak hours.
Watch the news yesterday. Hydro says on Xmas eve and Xmas day lower mainland broke records consuming over 10,000 MW of electricity. Still urging public to use electricity on off peak hours. Funny thing is, they have been doing this for years and we still not even fully electric yet. Wait till everyone is charging their electric cars at night.

[whitev70r]

Guy at Hyundai said 12 months wait for a top ioniq5, all cars on the lot are all spoken for.
$62k + 15% for a ultimate
Drove one today and it was surprisingly quiet inside.

Not knowing much about the Ioniq5 ... this seems reasonable if you're in the market for one, $54K for immediate delivery.
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/447716117017782/?ref=browse_tab&referral_code=marketplace_top_picks&referral_story_type=top_picks

[twitchyzero]

Prepay for gas on my phone

esso and shell only or does petrocan chevron started an app for payment yet?

[Spectre_Cdn]

I only fill up at Shell for dat v-power and the ease of card-free Air Miles 4Head

[GLOW]

Guy at Hyundai said 12 months wait for a top ioniq5, all cars on the lot are all spoken for.
$62k + 15% for a ultimate
Drove one today and it was surprisingly quiet inside.

so like on a 7 year term that's like $750-800/month with zero down?

[Koflach]

For those who have EV vehicles I'm curious.

Do you find yourself charging them everyday?
Do you like to keep your battery topped off?
Do you find yourself using the complete range of the battery?
Do you use only 20-80% of the charge capacity?

I'm curious because this just might be me but I find myself only using the top 20-30% of battery and I tend to plug it in every day as I only have access to a 120 outlet.

Tesla Model 3 LR AWD

Do you find yourself charging them everyday? No, there is no need for me as I only drive about 100 km per day.
Do you like to keep your battery topped off? Nope.
Do you find yourself using the complete range of the battery? No, I usually charge it when it gets down anywhere below 30%.
Do you use only 20-80% of the charge capacity? I charge the car to 90%.

[twitchyzero]

https://images.hgmsites.net/hug/volkswagen-id-buzz-teaser-at-id-5-introduction_100813677_h.jpg

[BIC_BAWS]

LOL they're still trying?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220109/8f6cca194c44d9a235e208a31d8a9332.jpg

Sent from my SM-G781W using Tapatalk

[Teriyaki]

https://images.hgmsites.net/hug/volkswagen-id-buzz-teaser-at-id-5-introduction_100813677_h.jpg

If this van's a rockin', don't come a knockin'

Concept looks really cool, hope they deliver on the final product.

[JDMDreams]

I thought frisker is owned by da Chinese now, I don't see why they can't turn it around. I haven't seen any lucids in the wild yet.

Mmmmmm $1.769 for that 87 FeelsBadMan

[twitchyzero]

hope they deliver on the final product.

lights are straight from the id4 and the mirror looks road legal

hope they keep the grille but this looks 99.5% production-ready

[supafamous]

https://images.hgmsites.net/hug/volkswagen-id-buzz-teaser-at-id-5-introduction_100813677_h.jpg

Really hope it looks close to the concept and drives well. I grew up on a minivan ( a Plymouth Voyager) and would love to own a minivan again if it's the right size. I haven't seen measurements for this but kind hoping it's not as big as the Odyssey or Sienna. I would assume EV packaging means it can be smaller.

[JDMDreams]

I saw a white ioniq 5 drive past today looks real weird with the plastic grey black lower cladding. Looks 4x4 off the ground like the new WRX. :okay:

[CorneringArtist]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_YrNpDidk4

Honda just unveiled the new Stepwgn hybrid. Definitely not getting it here, but I would sure as hell own one if they did.

[supafamous]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_YrNpDidk4

Honda just unveiled the new Stepwgn hybrid. Definitely not getting it here, but I would sure as hell own one if they did.

A wider version of this for our markets would be so awesome. I would totally be in for something that easily seats 3 across. I love me the Mazda 5 and this would be a great substitute. Love the box.

[SumAznGuy]

I thought frisker is owned by da Chinese now, I don't see why they can't turn it around. I haven't seen any lucids in the wild yet.

Mmmmmm $1.769 for that 87 FeelsBadMan

Correct. Owned by some Chinese company.
They were reproducing the car for a while. Not sure if they actually sold any as the technology was so old.

Didn't see anyone post it but I saw an article about a company that retrofitted their new battery packs into a Tesla.

200 kwh. Close to 1000 kms of range.

[dark0821]

^ if the 3rd party pack can still take advantage of the super charger network, then that is a huge win

cant imagine trying to charge 200 kwh at home... lolol even with a level 2 charger, you charge at maybe 5-6kwh/hr

[freakshow]

That said, I have sat at Market Crossing for 4 hours charging a Nissan Leaf. Shitty thing was another vehicle pulled into the other port slowing down the charge rate lol. I have a lot of friends who don't have charging at home (condo/strata can't/won't do it), and I don't recommend an EV for them. You *can* make it by charging at external stations, but even if it's a supercharger, it changes the ownership experience so much that it's not really worth it IMO.

[whitev70r]

^ There was a recent article comparing EV and ICE cost, and one often overlooked cost is time. Time waiting for charging in the best of cases (ie. show up at a charging station and no one is in line) to the worst case scenario (as above, 4 hrs) ... and everything in between. Eg. waiting 30 mins and charging for 40 mins. Plus, they added the extra routing which is needed sometimes to get to a charging station on a long road trip.

But time is the most precious if you ask me. Hidden cost of EV ownership if you don't have a home charger.

[JDMDreams]

Yea I've always wondered how the condo guys do it, but I guess they can still do phev. All the ppl I know who own EV has charging at home. But then most newer condos are looking into setting up EV charging in the parking if they don't have it already.

[VR6GTI]

Anyone here own a Mach e? I’ve been looking for awhile and doesn’t seem like my prime will ever show up. Not that it’s a bad thing I think, Im thinking EV is the way to go now. I’ve talked to a few owners and they say it’s the best vehicle they have ever owned but most people say that about anything they just bought.

[M Speed]

^ There was a recent article comparing EV and ICE cost, and one often overlooked cost is time. Time waiting for charging in the best of cases (ie. show up at a charging station and no one is in line) to the worst case scenario (as above, 4 hrs) ... and everything in between. Eg. waiting 30 mins and charging for 40 mins. Plus, they added the extra routing which is needed sometimes to get to a charging station on a long road trip.

But time is the most precious if you ask me. Hidden cost of EV ownership if you don't have a home charger.

Do ICE drivers factor in time spend at the pump/lineup? The routing cost (fuel, time, wear and tear etc)? Yes the line moves quicker but ICE also visit the pump one or more a week?

Now majority of EV owners charge at home. The vehicle sits idle, so there is zero opportunity cost. Now factor in if one go on a road trip once a year and wait for a DCFC, it may still be spending less time to keep it running.

Now visit to mechanic is way less on EV. So that's another win.

[whitev70r]

True ... the time you save for not going for oil change must be a big win. I don't EV so only those of you who does EV will know about time difference. The situation where it is the worst is someone who doesn't have a charger at home and rely on public ones (owners of older condo owners or renters).

The only gas station that you have to line up is at 12th and Commercial, that one is a zoo. And whenever the gov't decides to ration ... then the crazies get out their jerry cans.

[JDMDreams]

Yea but you're spending like $80+ a pop every time you fill up. That's like a decent dinner, it especially hurts if it's just for a beater that you're commuting in. Not even premium for any toy fun cars for a drive. FeelsBadMan

[SumAznGuy]

True ... the time you save for not going for oil change must be a big win. I don't EV so only those of you who does EV will know about time difference. The situation where it is the worst is someone who doesn't have a charger at home and rely on public ones (owners of older condo owners or renters).

The only gas station that you have to line up is at 12th and Commercial, that one is a zoo. And whenever the gov't decides to ration ... then the crazies get out their jerry cans.

In the beginning, there would be lineups and fights at DCFC cause people want to get their cars up to 100% charge. Now that most DCFC's are pay by the minute, people are starting to be smarter.

Give it some more time, and every car should have 400 km of range and the ability to use faster chargers.

Biggest thing the government can do is invest more money in the charging infrastructure vs giving rebates to people to buy said cars.
If you do it organically, you'll need more EV's and less ICE cars on the road before gas stations make the switch to selling electricity instead of gas.

[twitchyzero]

i do my own oil changes annually, with a valve most of them dont even need jacking up

seems kinda crazy to own EV without plugging at home

[Hehe]

^ if the 3rd party pack can still take advantage of the super charger network, then that is a huge win

cant imagine trying to charge 200 kwh at home... lolol even with a level 2 charger, you charge at maybe 5-6kwh/hr

If you have enough amperage, the older Tesla wall charger can pull 80A from the box (100A breaker), giving you about 19kwh... although the fastest a Tesla can pull is 72A so far IIRC.

[Y2K_o__o]

Do ICE drivers factor in time spend at the pump/lineup? The routing cost (fuel, time, wear and tear etc)? Yes the line moves quicker but ICE also visit the pump one or more a week?

Now majority of EV owners charge at home. The vehicle sits idle, so there is zero opportunity cost. Now factor in if one go on a road trip once a year and wait for a DCFC, it may still be spending less time to keep it running.

Now visit to mechanic is way less on EV. So that's another win.

I used to be the guy who wasn't very convinced about the EV thing until I sold two of my ICE vehicles for a used import Soul EV (150km range) and a new model 3 SR+

I got the soul EV import for dirt cheap as an A-to-B commute vehicle while a model 3 is a weekend family vehicle. The convenience and maintenance cost totally changes the way I see EV. I still keep my M3 as a summer car, but if I drive this all year long, fuel and oil change alone are going to cost me $5k annually easily with the current premium gas price $2/L

With the gas price keep hitting record high, fuel shortage, I don't regret at all even though I paid a higher purchase price up front.

[6thGear.]

We're looking to replace my wife's Fiat with a more family friendly vehicle and we're considering the Model Y. I was told it's a 1 year wait ?? Is this due to the processor chip shortage issue?

[Manic!]

We're looking to replace my wife's Fiat with a more family friendly vehicle and we're considering the Model Y. I was told it's a 1 year wait ?? Is this due to the processor chip shortage issue?

I think it's got to do with demand.

[M Speed]

It's a combination of both chip shortage and high demand.

Had you look at ioniq5? Good bang for the buck but doesn't have the Tesla charging infrastructure.

[6thGear.]

It's a combination of both chip shortage and high demand.

Had you look at ioniq5? Good bang for the buck but doesn't have the Tesla charging infrastructure.


Honestly I haven't looked at any as we just started to consider replacing her car. She really liked the Y after she sat in her friends. Honestly it's what she wants really. Unfortunate for us I don't think we want to wait a year to replace her car as we're running out of room already in the only capable car which is my S4

[68style]

I'm not gonna argue that electrics aren't the way to go (eventually)... but what's the obsession with brand new cars?

I haven't owned a new car since 2000 and I'm just fine. My newest car I even own now is 17 years old.

It's way way way cheaper for anyone talking about saving money being a priority :) Insurance is half the price too.

[Great68]

You just made me realize that the only car I've ever bought new in my life is now 13 years old :okay:

Good point about the insurance on the older car though, just got my renewal notice. $920, and that's with business use and 5 mil liability.

[6thGear.]

I'm not gonna argue that electrics aren't the way to go (eventually)... but what's the obsession with brand new cars?

I haven't owned a new car since 2000 and I'm just fine. My newest car I even own now is 17 years old.

It's way way way cheaper for anyone talking about saving money being a priority :) Insurance is half the price too.

My wife's fiat was her first new car bought in 2010. Prior to that she's own a couple old cars. Her Fiat is fine minus a few repairs the past couple years. But now there's 2 gasket leaks and the car is kinda useless especially with a 16 month old in tow. My S4 is going onto 8 years now but I'm not really looking to trade her in cause I still love driving it but when we go out his stroller and extras already take up half the trunk. Then there's my emergency kit/hand tools and a couple extras in a trunk organizer box and I'm left with 25% left of trunk space. A trip to superstore and I'm packing groceries onto the front seat.

Sure used cars are more economical but man I barely have time to clean/wash my car let alone doing diy maintenance. Even when I drop my car off at RPI service they don't always have a courtesy car for me. Enter a new car, Stealership costs and available courtesy car every time. Just the price for convenience

[68style]

Well, not to pick, but both your cars are not shining examples of ownership costs and reliability haha

I have a 2004 Lexus IS300 as my main daily for the last 7 years... 140,000kms up to 230,000kms now... and it's spent precisely zero days in any shop besides the bare minimum of oil changes and brakes... If I had a kid it wouldn't be big enough, small trunk, tiny back seat leg room... but even then I would just change to an old RX350 or something similar.

Some indie shops do have loaners too... DC Motorworks is one that I sometimes use and they have loaner cars. I would never bother him for one and just eat the day that something is getting done... but they are out there.

[Traum]

My S4 is going onto 8 years now but I'm not really looking to trade her in cause I still love driving it but when we go out his stroller and extras already take up half the trunk. Then there's my emergency kit/hand tools and a couple extras in a trunk organizer box and I'm left with 25% left of trunk space. A trip to superstore and I'm packing groceries onto the front seat.
Take the emergency kit + hand tools out unless you are doing an out-of-town trip. If you are only going to Superstore, you can afford to take the risk of getting stranded by a vehicle breakdown. And voila~ You have 1/2 the trunk available for groceries.

[Great68]

For me, buying new vs used would totally depend on the type of car.

I'd never buy something like my Speed 3 used. The person that buys that type of car off the lot is going to drive it hard (I know I did/do), and also has a higher likelihood of modding the car.

But for a regular old commuting appliance car or truck, meh used is fine.

[68style]

^ Agreed... it would have to be a particularly immaculate example somewhere farther into its age and a very careful assessment of the owner's personality.

[Hehe]

I'm not gonna argue that electrics aren't the way to go (eventually)... but what's the obsession with brand new cars?

I haven't owned a new car since 2000 and I'm just fine. My newest car I even own now is 17 years old.

It's way way way cheaper for anyone talking about saving money being a priority :) Insurance is half the price too.

Think buying an EV as you'd buy a new phone. When you are done with your 5yrs old iPhone 8, do you go out and buy another iPhone 8 that still works or you get a new/slightly used iPhone 13?

The thing about EV is that it's closer to your smartphone than your ICE car in term of the engineering put into it. And newer models (at least speaking from a Tesla perspective) has the latest bells and whistles that's not just new, but better and more efficient in every measurement.

And we aren't talking about luxury touches here and there. But actual stuff (the octa-valve of newer Model 3/Ys, newer car entertainment system that works a lot faster) that makes the car better (with octa-valve, the car suffers less battery loss in cold weather, for example).

In my own case, I got a brand new Model 3 first, and then ordered the Cybertruck and got rid of our last ICE car because covid. Then we realize one car just wasn't cutting it after re-opening, so we got a used Model X to get by until CT gets here. Why didn't I just opt for a new Model Y? Because we needed more space than Model Y could offer. But the convenience of an EV, at least in our day to day commute, it's something we can't go back.

Our car expense went from easily breaking 1000 in gas every month, to 700 with the house's hydro wrap into. And I'm not exactly living in a small house either. That's over 500 a month in saving considering we moved from a smaller house to a bigger house. Not to mention all the car maintenance I used to pay every year.

[6thGear.]

Well, not to pick, but both your cars are not shining examples of ownership costs and reliability haha

I have a 2004 Lexus IS300 as my main daily for the last 7 years... 140,000kms up to 230,000kms now... and it's spent precisely zero days in any shop besides the bare minimum of oil changes and brakes... If I had a kid it wouldn't be big enough, small trunk, tiny back seat leg room... but even then I would just change to an old RX350 or something similar.

Some indie shops do have loaners too... DC Motorworks is one that I sometimes use and they have loaner cars. I would never bother him for one and just eat the day that something is getting done... but they are out there.

If mine was the B8 then yes I'd be shitting bricks lol. Luckily B8.5 has resolved a lot of issues. I also don't drive like I stole it *knock on wood* so far it's been good to me. My wife's been ok considering it's a Fiat lol. But it did have it's transmission linkage cable snap in October thankfully I Googled and it was a recall issue covered under warranty. Honestly I could care less about plug in EV's let alone Teslas. There's also no standard plugs near my stall unless I run a 20 ft extension or I pay for EV plug to be rewired and installed at my stall. Last cost I heard was $8k but maybe cost has come downing? I'm open to hybrids though which was what I looked into last year.

I've also stuck with RPI since my hockey buddy left and I've gotten to know the owner Warren a lot more. They just know my car and that gives me a piece of mind

Take the emergency kit + hand tools out unless you are doing an out-of-town trip. If you are only going to Superstore, you can afford to take the risk of getting stranded by a vehicle breakdown. And voila~ You have 1/2 the trunk available for groceries.

It's like you're trying to talk me OUT of buying an EV lol

[whitev70r]

Our car expense went from easily breaking 1000 in gas every month, to 700 with the house's hydro wrap into. And I'm not exactly living in a small house either. That's over 500 a month in saving considering we moved from a smaller house to a bigger house. Not to mention all the car maintenance I used to pay every year.

What if you included monthly car payments, what would be the difference then?

I realize the monthly car maintenance is going significantly down but the real cost is always up-front cost to buy a new EV. Unless the other option was to get an ICE dollar for dollar, then of course EV comes out in the long run. But supposing you kept your old ICE, how long would it take to make up the difference for cash outlay for 2 new EV's?

[68style]

Well yah I mean there's no arguing it's cheaper to run a EV month to month... but you probably paid 6 figures for a used Model X as an interim car... it's kinda hard to say you saved $500 a month considering what else is available at that price point. That's an absolutely massive borderline supercar level expenditure upfront on the vehicle itself.

[JDMDreams]

Let's say $400 a month in gas plus any maintenance on top, now it's like maybe $600 ish a month payment plus extra for ICBC and electricity $100. So paying like $200 - $300 more than old 20 year old beater. :pokerface:

Something that ppl don't factor is it's a newer and safer car under warranty that you're getting. Sure it's cheaper maybe if the beater doesn't catastrophically fail, but you gain all the modern safety aids and crash ratings and technology. I sure wouldn't want to get hit in a 20 year old car Vs a modern car.

And my life is worth more than the $200, $300 a month that I'm already paying for something new and way safer.

As much as I hate to admit, but I'm not about dat rust bucket DD, no AC, no abs, no power steering lyfe anymore. As much fun as old VTEC Eg6 Dc2s are :okay:

[Great68]

This thread just reminded me that I had to check my 2021 mileage and gas receipts for my income tax.

2321kms and $474 (at 94 octane) in gas for the year. LOL

[6thGear.]

Well yah I mean there's no arguing it's cheaper to run a EV month to month... but you probably paid 6 figures for a used Model X as an interim car... it's kinda hard to say you saved $500 a month considering what else is available at that price point. That's an absolutely massive borderline supercar level expenditure upfront on the vehicle itself.

Used Model X to get by LOL. Aren't people selling used Teslas and making a profit? Shit quick CL search on used X and they're all $120+. Minus the 2017 for $92k from some random dealer
Let's say $400 a month in gas plus any maintenance on top, now it's like maybe $600 ish a month payment plus extra for ICBC and electricity $100. So paying like $200 - $300 more than old 20 year old beater. :pokerface:

Something that ppl don't factor is it's a newer and safer car under warranty that you're getting. Sure it's cheaper maybe if the beater doesn't catastrophically fail, but you gain all the modern safety aids and crash ratings and technology. I sure wouldn't want to get hit in a 20 year old car Vs a modern car.

And my life is worth more than the $200, $300 a month that I'm already paying for something new and way safer.

As much as I hate to admit, but I'm not about dat rust bucket DD, no AC, no abs, no power steering lyfe anymore. As much fun as old VTEC Eg6 Dc2s are :okay:

No abs/ac fun car is the day I can afford a house with a garage to store it in and stare at it cause can't drive it in shitty weather cause no abs can't drive it in the summer cause no ac

[68style]

It's definitely a personal choice to drive an old car vs a new one. I have a bunch of collector plated cars, 25+ years old does not mean it's a beater with no amenities. 1997 is 25 years ago now so ABS and P/S etc were around... AC is all R134 converted in the early 90's... heck my 1968 Mustang has power steering but it's a horrible daily driver so I am not even including it as an example.

I wouldn't expect too many people to be like me, I'm an outlier... however... I very much question spending $100k on a used Model X instead of $40k on a used RX350. Same model year, same safety and features standards.

You are NEVER going to close that cost gap between those 2. I don't think the X is any more luxurious either. Prices need to come down to make it viable.

[JDMDreams]

I literally had a super charged toy car that I bought back in like 18 that I've driven like less than 1000 km in 3 years. Bekuz vi Bois are dicks that I just put in the garage and look at :pokerface: :lawl: :okay:FeelsBadMan first world problems

[TypeRNammer]

https://www.cnet.com/a/img/resize/234b0d3d1a89e090cacfcbadcd3a0b1312748d42/hub/2022/01/14/0693415d-283f-477c-8fff-a2e2eefebb00/tas2206.jpg?auto=webp&width=768

https://www.cnet.com/a/img/resize/68063f9ae0061e48d8610cddbda6308f6bc0c557/hub/2022/01/14/6fb37a8d-4652-4c6e-943c-5867a49253e3/tas2231.jpg?auto=webp&width=768

https://www.cnet.com/a/img/resize/8ba160e2c0423d6cb7302af017b96827f0c3ddfe/hub/2022/01/14/6f462c94-6dcd-4205-a065-0843f970caec/tas2232.jpg?auto=webp&width=768

Here's the JDM Subaru Solterra STi cosmetics concept version

Kind of digging it actually.

[Hehe]

Well yah I mean there's no arguing it's cheaper to run a EV month to month... but you probably paid 6 figures for a used Model X as an interim car... it's kinda hard to say you saved $500 a month considering what else is available at that price point. That's an absolutely massive borderline supercar level expenditure upfront on the vehicle itself.

I got my used 2016 Model X off Tesla for mid 60k+tax... something like low 70s tax in.

I actually didn't mention about car cost because it's hard to compare and everyone's preference is different. But say if you were to compare a Model 3 with a BMW 3-class or Benz C-class. The payments are roughly the same, but the operating cost on the Model3 is so much lower.

And when you factor the saving into, which in my case works out about 300-400 when gas and maintenance are factored into. Yes, I used to do my maintenance at stealership. And that's still the case with Tesla, so I think it's a fair apple to apple comparison. Only thing I had to replace was air filter (which was more of a feel-good replacement. It was fine, but the tech was coming to make some minor warranty work, so I did it together) and wiper fluid.

And with Tesla service, I didn't even need to drop the car off or anything... I just let the mobile service know where the car was going to be, they can do everything without me ever meeting the tech and/or any time without car as they did the service while I was working inside the house.

My point is, Tesla or EV in general aren't perfect yet. We don't have anywhere near enough charging options on road to make it comparable to ICE. But when you take the saving (which is enough to cover a small ICE car payment) and everything into calculation, for city-wide day-to-day commute, still driving ICE is actually a waste of money (gas saving varies, but I was doing about 22-25k a year, gas-saving alone can cover a brand new cheapo ICE car payment) and time. (because everyday you charge at home when you get back. No more visit to gas station, ever). Just the same as your argument of new vs. used.

[whitev70r]

I wouldn't expect too many people to be like me, I'm an outlier... however... I very much question spending $100k on a used Model X instead of $40k on a used RX350. Same model year, same safety and features standards.

You are NEVER going to close that cost gap between those 2. I don't think the X is any more luxurious either. Prices need to come down to make it viable.

I'd be more like this ... how long will it take you to recover the $60K difference in a EV? Or in your case, $70K Tesla X to a used RX350 $40K ... still $30K diff. Anyhow ... to each his/her own.

[MarkyMark]

I'd be more like this ... how long will it take you to recover the $60K difference in a EV? Or in your case, $70K Tesla X to a used RX350 $40K ... still $30K diff. Anyhow ... to each his/her own.

Yeah but according to this thread you won't have ABS or power steering, it'll break down constantly and you and your whole family will die in a fiery death. Remember anything that's not an EV is a 20 year old beater.

[GLOW]

the orange accents remind me of my forester sport

https://www.cnet.com/a/img/resize/234b0d3d1a89e090cacfcbadcd3a0b1312748d42/hub/2022/01/14/0693415d-283f-477c-8fff-a2e2eefebb00/tas2206.jpg?auto=webp&width=768

https://www.cnet.com/a/img/resize/68063f9ae0061e48d8610cddbda6308f6bc0c557/hub/2022/01/14/6fb37a8d-4652-4c6e-943c-5867a49253e3/tas2231.jpg?auto=webp&width=768

https://www.cnet.com/a/img/resize/8ba160e2c0423d6cb7302af017b96827f0c3ddfe/hub/2022/01/14/6f462c94-6dcd-4205-a065-0843f970caec/tas2232.jpg?auto=webp&width=768

Here's the JDM Subaru Solterra STi cosmetics concept version

Kind of digging it actually.

[Koflach]

Before I bought my first model 3 back in 2018 I did a spreadsheet that covers all the major costs to compare the Long Range 2018 Model 3 vs my old car a 2014 Hyundai Sonata. After looking at insurance cost, gas ($1.50/l at the time) vs electricity, maintenance, and monthly payment of each vehicle it actually worked out to be cheaper to have the Model 3 for me.

[JDMDreams]

How you recoup the cost really depends how much you drive and the type of vehicle. The more you drive the more sense it makes. It would take you years to make up the cost difference if you drive 5 km a day. But when I quoted $400 a month on gas + maintenance it was on a 20 year old Honda accord. :lawl: and yes we've had Rx330 Rx350 too, they were pigs that needed premium that's why we got the accord as a cheap beater. The difference in gas to fill a rx300 or a rx350 is minimal. Even the newer ones aren't that much better on gas unless you have a hybrid. So your fixed cost is gas which is basically how much you drive and the type of car it is. Whether it's a 99 rx300 or a 20 rx350 you still need to fill it up with the similar amounts of gas.

[bcrdukes]

Before I bought my first model 3 back in 2018 I did a spreadsheet that covers all the major costs to compare the Long Range 2018 Model 3 vs my old car a 2014 Hyundai Sonata. After looking at insurance cost, gas ($1.50/l at the time) vs electricity, maintenance, and monthly payment of each vehicle it actually worked out to be cheaper to have the Model 3 for me.

Curious if you could share some facts with us on what the monthly and annual savings are and in which categories (i.e. fuel / maintenance / insurance etc.) between the two vehicles. Would be enlightening at the very least.

[GLOW]

i'd also be interested in how many km's you drive/year on avg as well.

[Koflach]

Here's a couple of the things that I put in that effects everyone, Gas V Electricity and Insurance. I drive roughly 20k-25k km per year which at the time worked out to about $400 per month in gas. The cost of electricity was $0.0884/kwh at home but my numbers on electricity cost were about half of what it increased by after we got the car. Also, I have my insurance set up for full business use so yours may be different from mine. I'm sure my numbers aren't perfect but they helped me get a better understanding of the costs going from and ICE car to an EV. Feel free to ask any follow-up questions if you like.

Tesla Charging Cost
Cost per KWH $0.0884
Capacity of Model 3 (in kwh) 75
Cost to fill $6.63
Cost per Month $19.89
Cost over term of Tesla $1,909.44

Cost to fill Sonata
Cost per KWH $1.5000
Capacity of Sonata (in Litres) 70
Cost to fill $105.00
Cost per Month $420.00
Cost over term of Tesla $40,320.00

Fuel Savings per Fill $98.37
Fuel Savings per Month $400.11
Fuel Savings over term of Tesla $38,410.56


Electric savings over ICE $38,410.56
Cost of Tesla after gas savings $35,366.86

Insurance on Sonata per month $176.80
Insurance on Sonata per year $2,121.60

Insurance on Tesla per month $177.71
Insurance on Model 3 per year $2,132.52

[whitev70r]

Thanks for all the details but it is still a bit 'deceiving'. For sure, no one would question how much you save on gas per month. What your calculations tells me is that even after 96 months (8 years) of savings from ICE to EV, you'd still have to put out $35,366.86 for the Tesla. Am I reading your figures right?

I think most of us is stuck on that part. If I keep my present car, how long will it take for me to recover my initial outlay of >$70K for a new EV or Tesla. What your figures tell me is that after 8 years of savings, I still have to put out $35K now.

[bcrdukes]

Thanks for sharing.

I have not checked, but what is the average finance and lease interest rate on a Tesla over say 5 years?

I think the situation and preference for everyone will vary. I would imagine the residual value or resale value of a Sonata isn't the best after a 5 year term, be it lease or finance when you factor in depreciation. Maintenance is maintenance. People will have their preferences for electrics/hybrid vehicles so that is that. Just based on numbers alone, electric (or a Tesla for that matter) isn't for me and won't be for a long time to come.

[Teriyaki]

Thanks for all the details but it is still a bit 'deceiving'. For sure, no one would question how much you save on gas per month. What your calculations tells me is that even after 96 months (8 years) of savings from ICE to EV, you'd still have to put out $35,366.86 for the Tesla. Am I reading your figures right?

I think most of us is stuck on that part. If I keep my present car, how long will it take for me to recover my initial outlay of >$70K for a new EV or Tesla. What your figures tell me is that after 8 years of savings, I still have to put out $35K now.

I think the approach to something like this wont' really make sense if there is no "need" to change your car?

The ICE to EV comparison is really only applicable on a cost effective basis if you needed to buy/replace your car anyways and the cost delta is between changing to a ICE car or a EV car. There may come a time when the upfront costs of buying a new car ( by that point they'll likely be all EV's ), will make more sense than paying to maintain your old gas mobile but that time is far far in the distance if it ever comes.

[whitev70r]

^ Yes, totally, what Koflach's numbers tell me is that if I was thinking of getting a new car between ICE and EV, if you factor in the gas savings over a period of time, you can purchase an EV that is easily $20-30K more and see the benefit over 6-9 years.

I agree, everyone's situation is different because I'm looking at keeping my car vs. buying new EV. But I'm like some others here, I've never a bought a new car.

[!Aznboi128]

If you're really into savings the best thing to do would be to pick up a used EV for cheap. Say 10-15k EV it'll be a lot easier to make up the difference than a $60k Tesla model 3. Yes maintenance cost etc would be different but $50k savings goes a long way.

For most switching out of their current car into a brand new EV will take years to recoup, I think when I did my calculations it'll be 10 years or so before I see a return.

[JDMDreams]

Not sure about now but I think Tesla finance was about 2.5 to 2.8% back in the summer. Still way cheaper than Toyota or inflation. Basically the bank is losing money lending you the money :lawl:

[bcedhk]

Thanks for all the details but it is still a bit 'deceiving'. For sure, no one would question how much you save on gas per month. What your calculations tells me is that even after 96 months (8 years) of savings from ICE to EV, you'd still have to put out $35,366.86 for the Tesla. Am I reading your figures right?

I think most of us is stuck on that part. If I keep my present car, how long will it take for me to recover my initial outlay of >$70K for a new EV or Tesla. What your figures tell me is that after 8 years of savings, I still have to put out $35K now.

Used EVs hold their value a lot better though. so after 5-6 years ownership, you might still be able to sell the Tesla for 25k+. 10k to operate a new high-tech vehicle isn't to bad if it can be stretched out for 5-6 years.

[Hehe]

Thanks for sharing.

I have not checked, but what is the average finance and lease interest rate on a Tesla over say 5 years?

I think the situation and preference for everyone will vary. I would imagine the residual value or resale value of a Sonata isn't the best after a 5 year term, be it lease or finance when you factor in depreciation. Maintenance is maintenance. People will have their preferences for electrics/hybrid vehicles so that is that. Just based on numbers alone, electric (or a Tesla for that matter) isn't for me and won't be for a long time to come.

Tesla's financing is through banks, usually RBC and Scotia. Rate is nothing to write home about, but not terrible. Right now, I think it's around 2.9% for 72mth and a bit less if you go 60 or shorter.

My math was a bit more sophisticated, but I can't seem to find the excel anymore.

But using Koflach's form, it's basically like this:

Cost per KWH $0.1408 (I used tier 2 from the get-go because it's impossible for me to stay under tier 1 with EV)
Capacity needed for Model 3 (in kwh) 90 (I used 90 by factoring 20% efficiency loss, which should be under, but let's just say worst-case scenario)
Cost to fill $12.67 for roughly 450km on average.
Cost per Month @24k/yr or 2k/mth $56.25
Maintenance with Tesla: Average 2200 every 4yrs or $550/yr (there's a major service every 4yr to open the motor to clean and lub. IIRC the only major service, or else it's $75 every 2yr for filter. Brakes never come close to need replacement in 10yrs)
Insurance: they were roughly the same, so I didn't care to compare.
Total cost of maintenance for 10yrs: $5500
Total cost to fill for 10yrs: $6750.6
Total cost to fill at supercharger for 10yrs: $5000 as one can't always be in the city/charge at home. I haven't come anywhere close to $500 a year for SC, but I'd just be generous for the worst-case scenario.
Total cost of operation for 10yrs: $17250.58

Cost to fill BMW
Cost per Litter $1.9 (premium)
Cost for 100KM at an average 12L/100km $22.8
Cost of gas at 24k/yr: 5472
Maintenance: first 3yr for free, averaging at $1700/yr for 10yrs. Yes, 3rd-party might be able to do it for cheaper, but let's do an apple to apple comp and use dealership/service center for both
Total cost of maintenance for 10yrs: 17000
Total cost to fill for 10yrs: $54720
Total cost of operation for 10yrs: $71720

This was roughly how my table looked like. I took the assumption that after 10yrs, both cars would be worthless because otherwise bringing depreciation and whatever makes things too complicated. But the difference is just too big to ignore. This is what I'm referring of as a city-car, if you aren't operating an EV, you are throwing money away.

[Koflach]

Thanks for all the details but it is still a bit 'deceiving'. For sure, no one would question how much you save on gas per month. What your calculations tells me is that even after 96 months (8 years) of savings from ICE to EV, you'd still have to put out $35,366.86 for the Tesla. Am I reading your figures right?

I think most of us is stuck on that part. If I keep my present car, how long will it take for me to recover my initial outlay of >$70K for a new EV or Tesla. What your figures tell me is that after 8 years of savings, I still have to put out $35K now.

Great question. You are only viewing a part of the spreadsheet but the number of $35,366.86 was just to help me understand what the cost of the car would be after factoring in fuel savings. This number helps me understand what other new ICE cars the Model 3 would be competing with as you can't really compare a 70k ice car to a 70k model 3.

[freakshow]

for 99% of people you buy a tesla because you like it. If you wanted to save money, you would buy a 2007 Civic for 4k and drive it into the ground.

[MarkyMark]

for 99% of people you buy a tesla because you like it. If you wanted to save money, you would buy a 2007 Civic for 4k and drive it into the ground.

Yeah but then you can't drive in the HOV lane and tell people how you're doing your part to save the planet lol

[Hehe]

for 99% of people you buy a tesla because you like it. If you wanted to save money, you would buy a 2007 Civic for 4k and drive it into the ground.

The saving is not much... a 2007 Civic does what? 8L/100km if you are not heavy on pedal. That's still ~$275 in gas every month assuming one does 2k at today's price... and might go even higher, while our hydro rate is pretty much constant.

When I was doing a 10yr cost analysis to decide whether to buy my Model 3 SR+, in no scenario an ICE could come out ahead assuming everything is either brand new or relatively new so I don't need to worry about suddenly being without car; All the way down to a Yaris.

By buying a 15yrs beater is not saving money. It's just spending as little as possible and hoping for the best.

[M Speed]

for 99% of people you buy a tesla because you like it. If you wanted to save money, you would buy a 2007 Civic for 4k and drive it into the ground.

Can't put old beater vs new semi luxury vehicles.

If not why buy a c class when a corolla can do the job both brand new with advance safety features?

[68style]

I trust Hehe’s numbers, although I will say hardly anybody keeps a car for 15 years.

Also dude you have made like $30k on your Model X if you got it for $70k… resell that shit lol

[twitchyzero]

are there used EVs with range worth a lick, worth buying?

I was reading once a cell dies the whole pack is toast, so do you get extended warranty?

[whitev70r]

^ that's my question. Seeing 1st gen Leafs (with like very limited range to begin with) around 2014 going for $11K, can't imagine the range or capacity on battery after 8 years being that good.

Another consideration for higher end EV's like Teslas, you think your residual value will keep or still be high after 8-10 years when battery needs to be replaced ?

[jaaagman]

https://driving.ca/features/feature-story/the-big-looming-problem-with-old-evs-its-really-really-hard-to-change-the-battery

It seems like battery replacement cars like the first gen Nissan Leaf's are hard to come by. Based on the videos from Rich Rebuilds' channel, Tesla replacement parts are similarly difficult to source from the manufacturer. For long term ownership, the ability to replace one of the battery modules versus the entire battery pack is still up in the air.

No doubt that this will get better with time, but I was really hoping Nissan would do a better job of providing EV parts support. I heard that older Prius NiMH battery pack replacements are quite common (in the US at least).

[Koflach]

for 99% of people you buy a tesla because you like it. If you wanted to save money, you would buy a 2007 Civic for 4k and drive it into the ground.

I can't speak for everyone else but the choice for me was more than just trying to save money. The cost savings of an EV vs and ICE are only there if you drive the car as you are typically paying more upfront on the EV so you do need to drive it a lot to realize the savings. Some of the other factors I thought of that held a lot of weight for me were:

- Safety. I have two children and the safety of Tesla's is hard to get in a lot of other cars.
- Convenience. The ability to fill my car up at home is amazing. The freedom of no longer having to stress about gas prices going up/down anymore and then simply no longer having to go to gas stations anymore.
- Comfort. I drive a lot for work and having a 2007 Honda Civic vs a new Tesla Model 3 makes a big difference. My car is essentially my office so it was important for me to have a comfortable car.
- User Interface. Before I had the car I thought it was going to be quite hard not having all the gauges behind the steering wheel to look at but I found it a very easy transition. Also, I love not having all the buttons all over the car and just having the screen. It's like going from a flip phone to a smart phone.

These are just a few but there are a lot of benefits to driving an EV beyond just potential savings.

[Koflach]

are there used EVs with range worth a lick, worth buying?

I was reading once a cell dies the whole pack is toast, so do you get extended warranty?

The first generation leaf is one car I would stay far away from as they have had a lot of documented battery issues.

If you are considering getting a secondhand EV then do your research on it and the technology behind their battery packs as the Bolt, Leaf and Tesla's all have been around long enough to have a lot of people go through any issues you might come across.

The best advice I can give you when buying an EV is to get a car with as much range as you can afford.

[TypeRNammer]

I can't speak for everyone else but the choice for me was more than just trying to save money. The cost savings of an EV vs and ICE are only there if you drive the car as you are typically paying more upfront on the EV so you do need to drive it a lot to realize the savings. Some of the other factors I thought of that held a lot of weight for me were:

- Safety. I have two children and the safety of Tesla's is hard to get in a lot of other cars.
- Convenience. The ability to fill my car up at home is amazing. The freedom of no longer having to stress about gas prices going up/down anymore and then simply no longer having to go to gas stations anymore.
- Comfort. I drive a lot for work and having a 2007 Honda Civic vs a new Tesla Model 3 makes a big difference. My car is essentially my office so it was important for me to have a comfortable car.
- User Interface. Before I had the car I thought it was going to be quite hard not having all the gauges behind the steering wheel to look at but I found it a very easy transition. Also, I love not having all the buttons all over the car and just having the screen. It's like going from a flip phone to a smart phone.

These are just a few but there are a lot of benefits to driving an EV beyond just potential savings.

I can reflect on the same comments here. Our model 3 was a replacement for the Honda Odyssey.

Honda Odyssey to fill up at current gas prices would hurt the wallet quite a bit, $130 bucks to fill only to get 600km a tank. Calculations would indicate that annual fuel costs would be well north of $4,000.

Then there's my BMW X1, which is my car to use mainly for to and from work. I only drive it about 13,000km a year. Annual fuel costs is over $3,000.

Hoping to replace the X1 some time in the next 3 years or so, taking a wait and see approach to see what manufacturers have to offer. Maybe by then Tesla will release a smaller Model 3

[Hehe]

are there used EVs with range worth a lick, worth buying?

I was reading once a cell dies the whole pack is toast, so do you get extended warranty?

I think it goes back to what I said before. The idea of buying used (as in quite a bit older at a big discount. Anything relatively new, especially Tesla are sold near the price of new or over) EV doesn't make too much sense. At least for Tesla... and the reason is actually about battery replacement.

And maybe I'm the only one, but I see the complete battery replacement at 22k a plus. This is not an engine rebuild as in ICE, but a complete engine replacement if you are thinking from ICE perspective.

Yes, the drivetrain is old, but the way they are designed, they are really meant to last beyond what a battery pack or 2 can possibly last.

And the same way I use my iPhone X... everything was fine with the phone. It was just the battery, after years of abuse no longer hold the charge and I was constantly finding chargers. I replaced the battery, at Apple for godsake, and everything is like new and I think it's good to go for another 4-5yrs.

Tesla makes their cars almost identical. And yes there are some efficiency touches here and there. But if I didn't care for those, like a buddy of mine in Toronto, who has a 200k+ Model S. That's basically the new definition of "driving it to the ground". We'll just drive the heck out of it, and when the battery no longer gives us the range enough to cover our driving, I'd replace the battery and start from almost new again.

And not sure when it's going to come to an end for Model 3 as its platform is still relatively new. The constant software update makes the car feel different after every major update. The car now is totally different than when I picked it up back in 2019 and I expect it to continue for the next few years.

[M Speed]

The first generation leaf is one car I would stay far away from as they have had a lot of documented battery issues.

If you are considering getting a secondhand EV then do your research on it and the technology behind their battery packs as the Bolt, Leaf and Tesla's all have been around long enough to have a lot of people go through any issues you might come across.

The best advice I can give you when buying an EV is to get a car with as much range as you can afford.

Could you name some example of the leaf battery issues? From all the EVs on the market, Nissan is the only manufacturer that has not recall battery. Yes leafs are not great on range or charge speed, but they are cheap to own, hov access, hell even buy an eBike cost a couple thousands.

Vancouver isn't really cold and some commute are reachable, If one can get a leaf that is at 10K that does 80km just commute to/from work....Could easily make the car free in two years.

[Hehe]

Could you name some example of the leaf battery issues? From all the EVs on the market, Nissan is the only manufacturer that has not recall battery. Yes leafs are not great on range or charge speed, but they are cheap to own, hov access, hell even buy an eBike cost a couple thousands.

Vancouver isn't really cold and some commute are reachable, If one can get a leaf that is at 10K that does 80km just commute to/from work....Could easily make the car free in two years.

The main issue of first-gen Leaf, from what I gathered is 2 parts:

1. There is no active cooling/heating solution for the batteries. Thus, the battery pack itself suffers a lot of stress from day to day operation, especially in areas where you experience either extreme cold or hot climate.

2. This is the big one, it has a very small battery, a mere 24kwh. And even the best batteries out there are only designed with 1000-1600 cycles (where a battery tops up and drains completely). In larger pack cars like Tesla, the cycle can be better managed as you are spreading onto larger amount of batteries. With Leaf having so few of them, that 1000 cycles go pretty fast since you always need all of them to drive any meaningful distance.

[M Speed]

None of the Leafs have active thermal management. But it is also has the best track record of no burn down your house. 24kwh are from 2011-2015, real world consumption on average would be 4-5km/kW which will still give the oldest leaf qt 70% capacity a 60-70km range. Imagine the time one saved on commute from ladner/Richmond using hov for $10K. Definitely not for everyone but if it work (charger at work and home)…one would get a very cheap and reliable vehicle. Plus there are local shop that will upgrade to 30kwh or 40kwh starting from 12K.

[GLOW]

i recall seeing used e-golf for pretty cheap ~$20K or so.

they look similar to normal golfs, figure that's a nicer looking option than a 1st gen leaf, but haven't heard too much about them.

[!Aznboi128]

^ not anymore, prices have gone up.

For 20k you can get 1st gen Leaf, BMW i3, Kia Soul or the 500e.

[BlackV62K2]

Are dealerships for car companies like Hyundai, Ford, Audi putting crazy markups on EVs? One thing Tesla got right is the direct to consumer sales.

[Koflach]

Could you name some example of the leaf battery issues? From all the EVs on the market, Nissan is the only manufacturer that has not recall battery. Yes leafs are not great on range or charge speed, but they are cheap to own, hov access, hell even buy an eBike cost a couple thousands.

Vancouver isn't really cold and some commute are reachable, If one can get a leaf that is at 10K that does 80km just commute to/from work....Could easily make the car free in two years.

As already stated, the first gen leaf has horrendously low range and as it doesn't manage the heating/cooling of the battery, the batteries degrade far faster than other vehicles on the market. The biggest issue for me with the leaf, i3 and other EV's marketed at short commutes is that they almost force you to have to rely on an ICE vehicle when you want to go out of town.

My comment of getting as much range as you can afford is really good advice when it comes to EV's.

As for a big benefit I didn't mention before with Tesla's is the charging network. It is a phenomenal bonus to owning a tesla and any company that relies on a network that is not the Tesla network will never be able to compete with Tesla. I have heard that VW might be signing on to the Tesla charging network and this would be a huge coup for them to be able to compete with Tesla.

[!Aznboi128]

Tesla charging network is nice but I wouldn't say that's the thing to rely on.

https://jalopnik.com/heres-the-main-problem-with-teslas-supercharger-network-1840110802

[M Speed]

As already stated, the first gen leaf has horrendously low range and as it doesn't manage the heating/cooling of the battery, the batteries degrade far faster than other vehicles on the market. The biggest issue for me with the leaf, i3 and other EV's marketed at short commutes is that they almost force you to have to rely on an ICE vehicle when you want to go out of town.

My comment of getting as much range as you can afford is really good advice when it comes to EV's.

As for a big benefit I didn't mention before with Tesla's is the charging network. It is a phenomenal bonus to owning a tesla and any company that relies on a network that is not the Tesla network will never be able to compete with Tesla. I have heard that VW might be signing on to the Tesla charging network and this would be a huge coup for them to be able to compete with Tesla.

I beg to differ. Tesla is great and all but the premium of having 400+km isn't necessary too most. Its like telling one to buy the most powerful ICE you can afford. No one road trip every month, so rule of thumb for buying EV is double your regular commute. Extreme weather take a huge chunk off the range so with double the range of one's commute, there is no range anxiety.

The difference between a leaf and any 400+km EV is $8000 +/-…I am pretty sure many if not most don't drive 150km on a round trip commute.

[!Aznboi128]

I honestly think it'll be possible for me and my family to get a 100km range EV as our one and only car. If I need to go further, I can always boring my parents/inlaws, modo, there're plenty of options.

Don't remember the last time I drove over 100km on a single trip.

[MaceWindu]

Are dealerships for car companies like Hyundai, Ford, Audi putting crazy markups on EVs? One thing Tesla got right is the direct to consumer sales.

I'm picking up an Ioniq 5 from OpenRoad Richmond Hyundai, no markup. Well there's like a stupid $185 charge for nitrogen in tires, rain-x application and wheel locks but whatever.

I was reading on r/ioniq5 on reddit and there are lots of dealerships out there charging big markups but it sounds like that is mostly in the states.

[Koflach]

Tesla charging network is nice but I wouldn't say that's the thing to rely on.

https://jalopnik.com/heres-the-main-problem-with-teslas-supercharger-network-1840110802

The furthest south i've traveled using the Tesla charging network is Centralia, Washington and the furthest in Canada is Kamloops.

For Centralia, it was in January two years ago and we had to stop to charge twice on our way there. We were in the area for a baseball tournament so we stayed the weekend and in total I think we charged about 5 times total for the whole trip. I don't believe we had to wait for a spot at any of the stops and they were all in very convenient spots so we were able to go grab a quick bite to eat/use the restrooms.

For Kamloops, it was in the summertime last year and we probably could have made it in one stop but we decided to stop in Merritt to grab a bite to eat at Boston Pizza. I ended up having to leave the restaurant before our food had arrived to go unplug so I wouldn't be charged any idling fees.

I have had nothing bought very positive experiences in 3.5 years using the Tesla network and the few times i've used non-tesla charging spots, they've either been out of service or I needed to download an app, create an account and then put a minimum amount of funds on the account. With the Tesla network you pull up, plug in and when it's done you unplug and drive away. Everything automatically charges the credit card you have on file and there is no additional logging into an app needed.

[TypeRNammer]

I honestly think it'll be possible for me and my family to get a 100km range EV as our one and only car. If I need to go further, I can always boring my parents/inlaws, modo, there're plenty of options.

Don't remember the last time I drove over 100km on a single trip.

Gonna need more range than that, especially when you have to factor in cold weather.

On one of the cold days, I started the day with 90% charge. Ran a few errands, drove a total of maybe 75km and that chewed up about 50% of the battery. That includes prewarming the batteries before starting my trip, and having my climate control on full automatic. Also some stationary idling with the heat on too.

This was on the model 3 standard range.

EDIT: Ideally the Honda E would be the perfect commuter car for me, too bad it's a forbidden fruit here.

[MG1]

As for a big benefit I didn't mention before with Tesla's is the charging network. It is a phenomenal bonus to owning a tesla and any company that relies on a network that is not the Tesla network will never be able to compete with Tesla. I have heard that VW might be signing on to the Tesla charging network and this would be a huge coup for them to be able to compete with Tesla.

Volkswagen in the US offers free 3 year charging with Electrify America. I think in Canada, it's Electrify Canada. In any case, Electrify America, and I assume Electrify Canada, is owned by Volkswagen.

https://media.electrifyamerica.com/en-us/releases/149

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrify_America

Don't think they're gonna partner with Tesla any time soon. Plus, non-tesla cars (not all) can charge at Tesla stations.


Closest Electrify Anything station I've seen is at the Fred Meyers in Bellingham (the one by Costco).

[!Aznboi128]

Gonna need more range than that, especially when you have to factor in cold weather.

On one of the cold days, I started the day with 90% charge. Ran a few errands, drove a total of maybe 75km and that chewed up about 50% of the battery. That includes prewarming the batteries before starting my trip, and having my climate control on full automatic. Also some stationary idling with the heat on too.

This was on the model 3 standard range.

EDIT: Ideally the Honda E would be the perfect commuter car for me, too bad it's a forbidden fruit here.
I'm actually curious, so I asked Mazda for a mx-30 press car for a month I want to see just how hard it is to live in vancouver with 160km of range. It's going to be in the month of February so it's still going to be cold. I only have access to 120v plug so I think it's going to be a good experience.

[TypeRNammer]

I'm actually curious, so I asked Mazda for a mx-30 press car for a month I want to see just how hard it is to live in vancouver with 160km of range. It's going to be in the month of February so it's still going to be cold. I only have access to 120v plug so I think it's going to be a good experience.

Looking forward to your review :bigthumb:

[M Speed]

Gonna need more range than that, especially when you have to factor in cold weather.

On one of the cold days, I started the day with 90% charge. Ran a few errands, drove a total of maybe 75km and that chewed up about 50% of the battery. That includes prewarming the batteries before starting my trip, and having my climate control on full automatic. Also some stationary idling with the heat on too.

This was on the model 3 standard range.

EDIT: Ideally the Honda E would be the perfect commuter car for me, too bad it's a forbidden fruit here.

Like I've said, buy double what one needed, a 40kwh leaf is at least $5000 cheaper than any other 400+km EV. Imagine people have access to charge at work and home...A 24 or 30kwh would work just fine.

So IMO to suggest to buy the longest rang one can buy is a bad advice.

[GLOW]

I'm actually curious, so I asked Mazda for a mx-30 press car for a month I want to see just how hard it is to live in vancouver with 160km of range. It's going to be in the month of February so it's still going to be cold. I only have access to 120v plug so I think it's going to be a good experience.

i live in east van and this would be fine for me driving out to chilliwack for a site visit so i'd like to think 160km range is fine for city commuting, but look forward to the review :)

[!Aznboi128]

As a family we rarely travel beyond East Van/Richmond/Burnaby so 160km seems more than sufficient. I had the MX-30 previously for a week and I thought it was okay for what I needed to do which was little drives here and there but having it for a month should show more shortcomings.

[twitchyzero]

ice racing

[68style]

I recall seeing several Tesla supercharger stations in all the little towns heading to Cache Creek including Cache Creek itself

[Koflach]

Volkswagen in the US offers free 3 year charging with Electrify America. I think in Canada, it's Electrify Canada. In any case, Electrify America, and I assume Electrify Canada, is owned by Volkswagen.

https://media.electrifyamerica.com/en-us/releases/149

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrify_America

Don't think they're gonna partner with Tesla any time soon. Plus, non-tesla cars (not all) can charge at Tesla stations.


Closest Electrify Anything station I've seen is at the Fred Meyers in Bellingham (the one by Costco).

How can any non Tesla charge at a Tesla station? The car and charger talk to each other and you automatically get charged through your tesla account with no intervention by the driver. It's not like at a Flo station or one of the other third party ones where you need one of their apps with a credit card attached to it or even have to carry a balance with them.

[MG1]

It's possible. Lots of how to videos out there. In Europe charging at Superchargers is possible. Here, in NA, only level two Tesla chargers or home chargers can charge non-tesla vehicle. So far.

https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/support/non-tesla-supercharging

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yW_JWwgFNF0

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alistaircharlton/2021/11/01/tesla-superchargers-can-now-be-used-by-other-electric-cars-here-is-how-it-works/?sh=4049cb4c784d

https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-opening-superchargers-to-other-evs/

From Netherlands..................
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=theiiFWydmo

[!Aznboi128]

I don't think I've seen a lot of Tesla Level 2 chargers out there.

[Koflach]

It's possible. Lots of how to videos out there. In Europe charging at Superchargers is possible. Here, in NA, only level two Tesla chargers or home chargers can charge non-tesla vehicle. So far.

https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/support/non-tesla-supercharging

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yW_JWwgFNF0

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alistaircharlton/2021/11/01/tesla-superchargers-can-now-be-used-by-other-electric-cars-here-is-how-it-works/?sh=4049cb4c784d

https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-opening-superchargers-to-other-evs/

From Netherlands..................
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=theiiFWydmo

Yes, In europe Tesla's use a different plug than in North America as they've standardized things far better than in North America. I was referring to Supercharging in North America, not using level 1 or 2 home chargers/destination chargers where you don't have to pay Tesla to use them.

[Hehe]

I recall seeing several Tesla supercharger stations in all the little towns heading to Cache Creek including Cache Creek itself

There's none in that area other than Merritt/Hope/Kamloop

However, BCHydro has DCFC along the HWY1. At least I know for sure there's one at Boston Bar since that's where I charged last summer. It's outside of a crappy bowling place. Even went in for a round with the kids while waiting.

[68style]

Well that makes sense, cuz I had to come home through Merritt and Hope because of 99 closures

[SumAznGuy]

There's none in that area other than Merritt/Hope/Kamloop

However, BCHydro has DCFC along the HWY1. At least I know for sure there's one at Boston Bar since that's where I charged last summer. It's outside of a crappy bowling place. Even went in for a round with the kids while waiting.

Is there any Petro Canada's with chargers along the way up to Cache Creek?
I know this past summer, I was in Hope and they had a few BC Hydro DCFC's, there was an Esso truck stop that had a row of Tesla chargers, and Petro Can had their own DCFC's.

[M Speed]

There's none in that area other than Merritt/Hope/Kamloop

However, BCHydro has DCFC along the HWY1. At least I know for sure there's one at Boston Bar since that's where I charged last summer. It's outside of a crappy bowling place. Even went in for a round with the kids while waiting.


Cache Creek, BC Supercharger
Cache Creek Visitor Information Centre
1270 Stage Road
Cache Creek, BC V0K 1H0

[tegra7]

South Surrey Tesla superchargers vandalized. They were supposed to be activated this Wednesday.
https://driveteslacanada.ca/supercharger/tesla-supercharger-in-south-surrey-vandalized-while-under-construction-british-columbia/

[white rocket]

I never thought I'd visit this thread but after having 3 V8's with 2 that require 91 for a while now combined with these recent fuel price hikes I'm feeling like a chump defending ICE's. Between my wife and I we both don't commute to work so driving is fairly mimimal, but we do drive 10 minutes here and then 15 minutes there so the worst kind of driving for a gas vehicle. En EV would be perfect these all in-town trips. I'll go back and read through this thread to gain some insight but for now here's where I'm at.

1) Sell the LX570 and replace it with something like the Audi e-tron (still researching EV SUV's)
2) Wait for an EV truck to be released and sell the Tundra (still as ways away from these being available though)
3) Keep both and just get a putt-around-town car for commutes that don't require a large SUV or pick up truck (maybe this would show us which ICE to sell)

The Lightning and Silverado EV's look great with crazy power and towing specs but sadly they are a long ways off. A year at least for a Lightning and 2024 for the Silverado. Not sure what else is available.

Tesla can eat a fat dick IMO and I'm not interested in spending any money with that brand so that has been my biggest challenge with entering into the EV market. But now with lots of other automakers getting into the market space it shows promise for better styling and longer range.

Off to rabbit-hole a bit. I'll report back.

[tegra7]

^Whats the issue you have with Tesla?

[whitev70r]

^^ it would seem like option 1 would be your best bet. Unless there is a reason why you need 2 big sized vehicles. Then you have one EV and one big V8 vehicle (when you need it)... best of both worlds?

[white rocket]

^Whats the issue you have with Tesla?

My father had a Model X in 2017 and is was complete junk. I hear quality has improved though. Styling is barf worthy and they are a dime a dozen. Not a fan of Elon either really but that's just icing on the cake.

^^ it would seem like option 1 would be your best bet. Unless there is a reason why you need 2 big sized vehicles. Then you have one EV and one big V8 vehicle (when you need it)... best of both worlds?

Agreed. We definitely need a truck for truck stuff and since a 1 ton diesel is out and the Tundra is the only half ton truck I'll accept then it would make sense to keep it and watch the EV truck market for now.

The LX is great for road trips, I like the towing availability, the 8 passenger option is nice too (2 families of 4 for outings where parking may be an issue or why take two vehicles when one will do). Also, 600kms+ is doable on highway trips even with the V8 while 450kms is a stretch with city driving. So I guess I'd want an 8 passenger EV SUV with a 600kms range and 7000lb towing capacity. Does that exist? I'll research but quick answers are welcome.

[supafamous]

The LX is great for road trips, I like the towing availability, the 8 passenger option is nice too (2 families of 4 for outings where parking may be an issue or why take two vehicles when one will do). Also, 600kms+ is doable on highway trips even with the V8 while 450kms is a stretch with city driving. So I guess I'd want an 8 passenger EV SUV with a 600kms range and 7000lb towing capacity. Does that exist? I'll research but quick answers are welcome.

Closest thing would be the Rivian R1S. 7,700lb towing, seats 7, 480km of range. Probably won't be cheap to spec it out to your needs but I guess that's the same for the other EV trucks.

https://rivian.com/r1s

[Koflach]

South Surrey Tesla superchargers vandalized. They were supposed to be activated this Wednesday.
https://driveteslacanada.ca/supercharger/tesla-supercharger-in-south-surrey-vandalized-while-under-construction-british-columbia/

The thief's were very fortunate that they were not turned on as those cables have a lot of juice running through them.

[SumAznGuy]

The thief's were very fortunate that they were not turned on as those cables have a lot of juice running through them.

They cut the cables from the chargers that would plug into the car.
Even if the chargers were live, there is no juice in them until they are plugged into the car and the car communicates to the chargers to bill the owner of the car.

It's not like a live wire on top of the power poles.

[!Aznboi128]

My father had a Model X in 2017 and is was complete junk. I hear quality has improved though. Styling is barf worthy and they are a dime a dozen. Not a fan of Elon either really but that's just icing on the cake.



Agreed. We definitely need a truck for truck stuff and since a 1 ton diesel is out and the Tundra is the only half ton truck I'll accept then it would make sense to keep it and watch the EV truck market for now.

The LX is great for road trips, I like the towing availability, the 8 passenger option is nice too (2 families of 4 for outings where parking may be an issue or why take two vehicles when one will do). Also, 600kms+ is doable on highway trips even with the V8 while 450kms is a stretch with city driving. So I guess I'd want an 8 passenger EV SUV with a 600kms range and 7000lb towing capacity. Does that exist? I'll research but quick answers are welcome.
At this moment, what you're looking for does not exist.

There are options in the future like the Rivian said above. There's going to be a Hummer SUV after the truck but I think it's going to be a 5-seater.

[Great68]

The Rivian might be able to pull 7700lbs, but you're not going to get anywhere near 480km range with that. Everything that I have seen regarding towing and EV's is that you expect your range to decrease by 2/3rds or more when towing.

[SumAznGuy]

The Rivian might be able to pull 7700lbs, but you're not going to get anywhere near 480km range with that. Everything that I have seen regarding towing and EV's is that you expect your range to decrease by 2/3rds or more when towing.

Yup. From an aerodynamic stand point, to the extra weight to get going and maintaining speed.

Look at a gas powered trucks. Fuel economy drops when you are pulling a load.

[Koflach]

The Rivian might be able to pull 7700lbs, but you're not going to get anywhere near 480km range with that. Everything that I have seen regarding towing and EV's is that you expect your range to decrease by 2/3rds or more when towing.

How much does range drop on an ICE truck when towing?

[Great68]

How much does range drop on an ICE truck when towing?

Proportionally, not nearly as much as an EV. Gas has much greater energy density per pound than batteries, so even though ICE's are like 30% efficient, they can carry 200 times more energy with them.

I've posted this video, in this thread to this very point:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4W-P5aCWJs

These guys pull 2000lbs with their Model X P100 (Rated for 5000lbs) and have to give up because it would have added an extra day (7+hours of charging) to their trip versus a gas truck:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjklex38lkQ

[Hondaracer]

Two colleagues I work with have model X’s and they say towing almost anything cuts the range in half. I think older X’s though if that makes a difference.

Been seeing some of those ioniqs around, rear end looks kinda cool, the front doesn’t look nearly as nice as the press shots etc.

[twitchyzero]

I guess I'd want an 8 passenger EV SUV with a 600kms range and 7000lb towing capacity. Does that exist? I'll research but quick answers are welcome.

probably tundra hybrid as stopgap

[twitchyzero]

i was surprised the spanking new LX only gained 4 extra mpg after like 15 years of advancements...with turbos it's gonna be even worse in real world?

[white rocket]

Thanks all. Definitely loving the Rivian. Videos of its capability are just nuts. Quietly dominating trails with ground clearance for days. Just crazy. But we're highway road tripping and not doing Moab so not sure if those off road features really matter all that much. Hummer also looks interesting and super fast. Silverado and Lightning are contenders too despite my distaste for all things Ford, GMC, FCA. I believe all of these to be in the $120k range pre-tax give or take depending on options. That's what I would expect to pay for a full size EV seating 7 or offering half ton pick up truck skills. Maybe $150K tops. I'd like to catch a sale and get a replacement sorted before this crazy hot market comes tumbling down. I'd no doubt make money selling either the LX or Tundra but not sure if there is a full-on replacement for either right now. I might be spectating for a bit.

I almost want to pick up a >$50K EV of any kind and just live in that world for a few months and see how I like it. Then decide which of our gas guzzlers to replace once we decide we like the whole EV lifestyle. But then that's a waste of capital when the idea is to save money in the end. Or maybe I make an EV the "fun car" too. I know I shit on Tesla but I've seen some pretty trick looking Model 3's. Low, kitted, etc. I kinda wanted a $50k hot hatch or an ND2 for a while but then that just fizzled out. Is there anything fun in the EV world in that price range?

probably tundra hybrid as stopgap

But then it's just a hybrid and not a full HOV lane no gasoline bill EV. I do dig the new Tundra and would definitely consider it as a replacement but that's still a few years out. 2024 before I'd buy one probably.

i was surprised the spanking new LX only gained 4 extra mpg after like 15 years of advancements...with turbos it's gonna be even worse in real world?

I love the new LX but yea, no Hybrid MAX like the Tundra giving it that mega torque and with gas prices going bananas it's all about moving to full EV for at least one vehicle anyway. Silverado/Rivian truck/Lighting and a new LX? Or an Audi E-tron/Rivian SUV and a new Tundra?

[G]

Two colleagues I work with have model X’s and they say towing almost anything cuts the range in half. I think older X’s though if that makes a difference.

Been seeing some of those ioniqs around, rear end looks kinda cool, the front doesn’t look nearly as nice as the press shots etc.

I've been eyeing the ioniq5, gonna go test drive this weekend. Definitely the best bang for its buck EV car out there rn... Anyone in this thread have one?

[underscore]

Maybe $150K tops.

the idea is to save money in the end.

wat

[Hehe]

As a person who have switched to EV fully and advocates them heavily, I'd stick it to a commuting vehicle for now.

Especially if you are looking at towing anything or going outside of the city, you'd want a very comprehensive charging network that you can rely on. And really... outside of Tesla, the experience is not great. So, if you are not planning to get a Tesla for your first EV, I'd suggest using whatever EV you end up getting almost strictly as a commuting vehicle inside the city. You are not going to like what EV has to offer if you are planning to use it for anything else than that without being a Tesla. I've met many people who went EV without going to Tesla, and they either stick with city/short-trip only, or eventually got a Tesla just so that they can do roadtrips.

[!Aznboi128]

I've been eyeing the ioniq5, gonna go test drive this weekend. Definitely the best bang for its buck EV car out there rn... Anyone in this thread have one?
Getting the top range Ultimate model near the end of Feb.

I was looking at the options list, basically you don't want the base model as the Essential trim doesn't have a heat pump and in Vancouver that's kinda needed. $47k for a Preferred isn't bad it gives you all the things you would want.

Thing is if you're talking about bargain, you can't forget about the ID4. That starts at $45k, it has more power than the Ioniq and has heat pump with the base model. If you want AWD that's $50k comparing to Ioniq's $55k. That said, the Ioniq AWD does have more power, range is similar at about 400km

[whitev70r]

And really... outside of Tesla, the experience is not great. So, if you are not planning to get a Tesla for your first EV, I'd suggest using whatever EV you end up getting almost strictly as a commuting vehicle inside the city. You are not going to like what EV has to offer if you are planning to use it for anything else than that without being a Tesla. I've met many people who went EV without going to Tesla, and they either stick with city/short-trip only, or eventually got a Tesla just so that they can do roadtrips.

So dumb question here but how does one who own say, an eGolf or an Ioniq plan a trip to say Banff? You plan your stops/breaks at cities with paid charging stations? If so, I don't think you can make it in one day. Drive is like 10-12 hours with an ICE.

[!Aznboi128]

So dumb question here but how does one who own say, an eGolf or an Ioniq plan a trip to say Banff? You plan your stops/breaks at cities with paid charging stations? If so, I don't think you can make it in one day. Drive is like 10-12 hours with an ICE.
Charge at superchargers/ DC fast charge to reduce charging times. It's going to be longer than ICE for sure.

This is a pretty good video of what to expect on road trips
https://youtu.be/vXzuFprlyrw

[6thGear.]

We love doing road trips hence why I'm still leaning towards hybrids. But my question can plug in hybrids still function if one can't access a charging station? I assume it'll just stay on gas mode the whole time?

[!Aznboi128]

We love doing road trips hence why I'm still leaning towards hybrids. But my question can plug in hybrids still function if one can't access a charging station? I assume it'll just stay on gas mode the whole time?
Correct, PHEV acts as hybrid vehicles once the charge for full EV mode runs out.

Generally speaking, if you don't ever plug it in it's also fine. It just runs as a hybrid but less efficient overall.

[Great68]

We love doing road trips hence why I'm still leaning towards hybrids. But my question can plug in hybrids still function if one can't access a charging station? I assume it'll just stay on gas mode the whole time?

The ICE should still charge the battery while it's running. The plug in capability just means that you can top up the battery from mains power.

[!Aznboi128]

The ICE should still charge the battery while it's running. The plug in capability just means that you can top up the battery from mains power.
In most cases the engine will not charge the PHEV battery to full during normal operation. Some cars have a button where you can charge that PHEV battery but it's not efficient, better off plugging it into the wall when you can.

[white rocket]

As a person who have switched to EV fully and advocates them heavily, I'd stick it to a commuting vehicle for now.

Especially if you are looking at towing anything or going outside of the city, you'd want a very comprehensive charging network that you can rely on. And really... outside of Tesla, the experience is not great. So, if you are not planning to get a Tesla for your first EV, I'd suggest using whatever EV you end up getting almost strictly as a commuting vehicle inside the city. You are not going to like what EV has to offer if you are planning to use it for anything else than that without being a Tesla. I've met many people who went EV without going to Tesla, and they either stick with city/short-trip only, or eventually got a Tesla just so that they can do roadtrips.

That's some solid advice. Thank you. And sort of the conclusion I've come to, hence looking to add to the fleet to see it it makes sense first rather than swapping immediately. If EV is not for me then just sell the EV and wait for the infrastructure to improve or my intended use to change. It's really the in-town stuff that has an ICE looking terrible from a mpg standpoint but we also need the truck bed and sometimes more than 5 seats in those in-town settings. Decisions, decisions.

[underscore]

So dumb question here but how does one who own say, an eGolf or an Ioniq plan a trip to say Banff? You plan your stops/breaks at cities with paid charging stations? If so, I don't think you can make it in one day. Drive is like 10-12 hours with an ICE.

I don't know the exact details of their trip, but my friends took their Ioniq to Calgary and back no problem.

[Hehe]

That's some solid advice. Thank you. And sort of the conclusion I've come to, hence looking to add to the fleet to see it it makes sense first rather than swapping immediately. If EV is not for me then just sell the EV and wait for the infrastructure to improve or my intended use to change. It's really the in-town stuff that has an ICE looking terrible from a mpg standpoint but we also need the truck bed and sometimes more than 5 seats in those in-town settings. Decisions, decisions.

We just don't have EV that's a do-it-all option. It's always about compromises. Yes, you have SUV/Crossovers/Sedans and whatever, but they just haven't gotten everything out yet, in your case, something to tow/do roadtrips. Maybe by the time Cybertruck actually hit the market, we'd have something decent as it's spec'd to make 500 miles (the top trim at least). And even cutting that by half when towing is included, 250miles on a charge is more than decent as the distance between one supercharger to another is usually far less than that. With EVs, you are not always charging to full at every charge stop, but just enough to make it to the next one. And you want it that way because low SOC (state of charge) means faster charging.

With that in mind though, if one's looking for a vehicle to drive in the city, there's very little reason to not go EV, even if you don't drive all that much. The low cost of operation is night and day difference when comparing vehicles in the same price range.

My friend had a BMW 320, and drives about 12000km a year. He switched to a Model 3 RWD/SR+ and couldn't be happier. As he drives relatively little. He just relies on the 110v plug he's got on the wall and it works fine for him. The only regret he had was not buying it earlier. No oil leak/burn/gas price/service to worry about and the few road trips that he did (up to Whistler/Kelowna and down to LA), the supercharger network served him fine. He calls it the ultimate city vehicle, which is hard to argue.

Many people hesitate to go EV because of fear of range anxiety, and I'd say that's the case with non-Tesla EVs. But Tesla got it quite figured out unless you are going to the middle of nowhere. Anything that's along major hwys, and inside large metros, Tesla's charging network got it covered. People in even Model 3 SR+, which is the lowest range Tesla out there, have done cross Canada/US trips without a hitch.

When I went full EV, the idea was simple. 99.5% of my trips can be covered with EV. And if it ever comes to that 0.5% of chances, I'd just rent. The difference in operating cost can allow me to rent specific vehicles that I need many times in the year. And for the 2+yrs of full EV, I've only needed to rent a truck once because I needed to haul a lot of stuff up to Revelstoke. And as I said, once the Cybertruck gets here, it'd probably cover the full 100% of my needs ever imaginable with a car.

[white rocket]

^^^Outstanding. Thank you again.

Agreed 100% as the ultimate city vehicle. I like the idea of having a small boot-around-town car and also having a large SUV and truck on-hand. If anything, it keeps the mileage and chance of a collision low on the ICE vehicles prepping them for eventual sale if we can swing life without one of them. We do have a large dog that only does well in a vehicle in a crate so the SUV is pretty crucial for hauling him around though.

[MaceWindu]

I've been eyeing the ioniq5, gonna go test drive this weekend. Definitely the best bang for its buck EV car out there rn... Anyone in this thread have one?

https://i.imgur.com/wfknmc8.jpg

Just picked this up two days ago. This is the mid level trim, Preferred RWD Long Range which is rated for 488km range.

There are some rumors out there that Hyundai Canada is no longer taking reservations for 2022 models and all orders here on out are going to be 2023. But you can try calling local dealerships to see if they have any unallocated units.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Ioniq5/comments/s8x237/local_dealership_says_ioniq_5_sold_out_in_canada/

[M Speed]

We just don't have EV that's a do-it-all option. It's always about compromises. Yes, you have SUV/Crossovers/Sedans and whatever, but they just haven't gotten everything out yet, in your case, something to tow/do roadtrips. Maybe by the time Cybertruck actually hit the market, we'd have something decent as it's spec'd to make 500 miles (the top trim at least). And even cutting that by half when towing is included, 250miles on a charge is more than decent as the distance between one supercharger to another is usually far less than that. With EVs, you are not always charging to full at every charge stop, but just enough to make it to the next one. And you want it that way because low SOC (state of charge) means faster charging.

With that in mind though, if one's looking for a vehicle to drive in the city, there's very little reason to not go EV, even if you don't drive all that much. The low cost of operation is night and day difference when comparing vehicles in the same price range.

My friend had a BMW 320, and drives about 12000km a year. He switched to a Model 3 RWD/SR+ and couldn't be happier. As he drives relatively little. He just relies on the 110v plug he's got on the wall and it works fine for him. The only regret he had was not buying it earlier. No oil leak/burn/gas price/service to worry about and the few road trips that he did (up to Whistler/Kelowna and down to LA), the supercharger network served him fine. He calls it the ultimate city vehicle, which is hard to argue.

Many people hesitate to go EV because of fear of range anxiety, and I'd say that's the case with non-Tesla EVs. But Tesla got it quite figured out unless you are going to the middle of nowhere. Anything that's along major hwys, and inside large metros, Tesla's charging network got it covered. People in even Model 3 SR+, which is the lowest range Tesla out there, have done cross Canada/US trips without a hitch.

When I went full EV, the idea was simple. 99.5% of my trips can be covered with EV. And if it ever comes to that 0.5% of chances, I'd just rent. The difference in operating cost can allow me to rent specific vehicles that I need many times in the year. And for the 2+yrs of full EV, I've only needed to rent a truck once because I needed to haul a lot of stuff up to Revelstoke. And as I said, once the Cybertruck gets here, it'd probably cover the full 100% of my needs ever imaginable with a car.

You've nailed it. That also echo along to get a less range EV that is not a Tesla. The price difference is $7K-20K comparing a 200km range EV to a 400km+ EV. It falls back to your theory of fitting 90+% of your daily need.

a Model 3 SR+ ($59.9k) vs Leaf 40kwh ($38K) vs Niro ($45K)

[!Aznboi128]

Thanks all. Definitely loving the Rivian. Videos of its capability are just nuts. Quietly dominating trails with ground clearance for days. Just crazy. But we're highway road tripping and not doing Moab so not sure if those off road features really matter all that much. Hummer also looks interesting and super fast. Silverado and Lightning are contenders too despite my distaste for all things Ford, GMC, FCA. I believe all of these to be in the $120k range pre-tax give or take depending on options. That's what I would expect to pay for a full size EV seating 7 or offering half ton pick up truck skills. Maybe $150K tops. I'd like to catch a sale and get a replacement sorted before this crazy hot market comes tumbling down. I'd no doubt make money selling either the LX or Tundra but not sure if there is a full-on replacement for either right now. I might be spectating for a bit.

I almost want to pick up a >$50K EV of any kind and just live in that world for a few months and see how I like it. Then decide which of our gas guzzlers to replace once we decide we like the whole EV lifestyle. But then that's a waste of capital when the idea is to save money in the end. Or maybe I make an EV the "fun car" too. I know I shit on Tesla but I've seen some pretty trick looking Model 3's. Low, kitted, etc. I kinda wanted a $50k hot hatch or an ND2 for a while but then that just fizzled out. Is there anything fun in the EV world in that price range?



But then it's just a hybrid and not a full HOV lane no gasoline bill EV. I do dig the new Tundra and would definitely consider it as a replacement but that's still a few years out. 2024 before I'd buy one probably.



I love the new LX but yea, no Hybrid MAX like the Tundra giving it that mega torque and with gas prices going bananas it's all about moving to full EV for at least one vehicle anyway. Silverado/Rivian truck/Lighting and a new LX? Or an Audi E-tron/Rivian SUV and a new Tundra?
Maybe a solid choice would be the next Sequoia.

Standard hybrid motor, 9000lb towing, 3 rows of seats. Sure you won't get the HOV access with this but it should save you a few bucks at the pumps.

Standing Tall: All-New 2023 Sequoia Full-Size SUV is Ready to Make its Mark | Toyota Canada (http://media.toyota.ca/releases/standing-tall-all-new-2023-sequoia-full-size-suv-is-ready-to-make-its-mark)

https://s3.amazonaws.com/cms.ipressroom.com/152/files/20220/61f02a97b3aed363361d9a5c_2023_Toyota_Sequoia_Capst one_004/2023_Toyota_Sequoia_Capstone_004_cc7cd672-9095-4c19-9786-8244d84ab113-prv.jpg

[Hondaracer]

So how much was that Ioniq Mace?

swear they look fantastic in pictures but kinda less so on the road lol

[!Aznboi128]

So how much was that Ioniq Mace?

swear they look fantastic in pictures but kinda less so on the road lol
Essential - $45k
Preferred - $47k

Preferred Long Range - $52k
Preferred Long Range AWD - $55k
- Optional Ultimate package $5k

You basically want the Preferred as base as Preferred adds
- 6 way adjustable passenger seat
- Heat pump
- Heated steering wheel
- Ultra Fast Charger

[MaceWindu]

So how much was that Ioniq Mace?

swear they look fantastic in pictures but kinda less so on the road lol

basically came to $53k all in, after taxes and net of the rebates. I was looking for something that was eligible for the 5k federal and 3k provincial.

All the marketing materials use pictures of the top trim (the Ultimate) where the wheel arches and the side cladding on the door are silver instead of the shitty black plastic on every other trim. I think that's where the discrepancy is, at least to me. Here's a picture of the "Shooting Star" matte black colour ($1,000 option) where the wheel arches and side cladding are more colour matched which looks way better imo. Oh and 20s on the Ultimate vs 19s on everything else.

https://i.imgur.com/kUpJT9U.jpg

Same colour but Ultimate trim:
https://images.hgmsites.net/hug/2022-hyundai-ioniq-5_100792728_h.jpg

[Hondaracer]

53 eh.. pretty good for an SUV

[BlackV62K2]

Why can't they just make it normal doors instead of having that hard line cutting across the panel and adding whatever that is to the bottom of the doors. EV designers be like, we need to make EVs ugly to stand out from ICE cars....

[Hehe]

Why can't they just make it normal doors instead of having that hard line cutting across the panel and adding whatever that is to the bottom of the doors. EV designers be like, we need to make EVs ugly to stand out from ICE cars....

It's all about aerodynamic/drag efficiency.

Anything that sticks out unnecessary is going to cut range. IIRC, the 2 side mirrors, if removed can improve range by up to 3%. It might not sound like much, but you have 2% here, 1% there and another 0.5% from another thing, it'd mean a lot in the overall operation of an EV.

Think it this way, battery is the biggest single source of cost for any EV. If you are targeting... say 300km range, and you can effectively improve range by 5% on designing the shape of the car, it'd mean that the carmaker can save 5% on battery cost or roughly 1.5-3% of the overall car cost while everything else stays the same.

Tesla is going a step further. On CT, it supposed to have no cutoff whatsoever. It's just a sensor on the b-pillar that one swipe.

[Spectre_Cdn]

53 eh.. pretty good for an SUV

Is it really a SUV, though? It looks like the ground clearance is akin to that of a hatchback.

In other news, the 2023 Sequoia was revealed, yesterday. Comes standard with the hybrid powertrain from the new Tundra. Finally looks decent, and not an afterthought like the previous model.

[Hondaracer]

Kinda like a cross over I guess.. model Y sits similar no?

[EvoFire]

The new EVs all look different but all have that low tight look ala Model Y/Pornstar 2(name courtesy of wife :D)/Kia Ioniq.

We need something slightly bigger/taller, but that goes against the physical efficiency, can't beat physics. I would love a low tight car, but it's not the most practical. I'd also imagine anything that's taller/bigger is gonna cost a lot more.

[bcrdukes]

You can afford it!

[6thGear.]

Why can't they just make it normal doors instead of having that hard line cutting across the panel and adding whatever that is to the bottom of the doors. EV designers be like, we need to make EVs ugly to stand out from ICE cars....

That line will be an absolute nightmare to straighten out in any accident/door damage of any sorts. Thank God I'm leaving that trade

[white rocket]

Maybe a solid choice would be the next Sequoia.

Still digesting this long awaited release. At first I saw GMC Terrain vibes but other than that terrible comparison it's pretty much what I expected. Hybrid MAX standard on all models was a welcome surprise. That's pretty dope. Definitely a contender and with the MAX as a standard option it kind of shit-kicks the LX600. Waiting to see if the LX follows in a year or so.

[beatdownvictim]

Damn the ioniq is growing on me.
I put a deposit down for the Y back in November but savings with the too spec ioniq 5 there is a hefty price difference plus it qualifies for the incentives.
Only thing is...it looks too small and the avalabity of a hitch is still a question mark?

I love my 3p, and count myself lucky I've had no serious issues so far.......

What's the wait times like for the ioniq 5? My Y isn't supposed to be here till July.

[twitchyzero]

That line will be an absolute nightmare to straighten out in any accident/door damage of any sorts. Thank God I'm leaving that trade

you work in the trade but i'm always puzzled when others base their purchases on fixing up fender benders

[6thGear.]

always puzzled when people base their purchases on fixing up fender benders :suspicious:

Oh I'm not. I'm basing this on 20+ years of Autobody experience

[M Speed]

Damn the ioniq is growing on me.
I put a deposit down for the Y back in November but savings with the too spec ioniq 5 there is a hefty price difference plus it qualifies for the incentives.
Only thing is...it looks too small and the avalabity of a hitch is still a question mark?

I love my 3p, and count myself lucky I've had no serious issues so far.......

What's the wait times like for the ioniq 5? My Y isn't supposed to be here till July.

Hyundai will not take more order For 2022 as of Jan 31. Even than the allotment will be Dec if everything lines up.

[beatdownvictim]

Oof guess I'm sticking with the Y then sincen would need car by July latest.


Thanks donald!

[MarkyMark]

Looks like the Cybertruck won't be coming till possibly 2024 now

[!Aznboi128]

Looks like the Cybertruck won't be coming till possibly 2024 now
Yea, seems like production will ramp in 2023 so we'll get it in 2024.

Not sure if you seen the more recent video, it doesnt look as impressive as it's not as big as the concept.

https://youtu.be/yHT040_Pt3w

[tegra7]

The original Cybertruck was supposed to be Ram 3500 sized. This one looks Ford Ranger sized.

[twitchyzero]

starting to feel like duke nukem forever/star citizen of the automotive world

any time things get stretched development and have to go back to the drawing board, it rarely turns out to meet expectations

i think the smaller size is beneficial for vancouver (it's more ridgeline than f150 anyways)..as long as they can deliver on price and range that will be good enough for most of the reservation holders

[SumAznGuy]

Proportionally, not nearly as much as an EV. Gas has much greater energy density per pound than batteries, so even though ICE's are like 30% efficient, they can carry 200 times more energy with them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmH6j3tDczo

Here's a good video where they talk about all the issues with towing a car with a Rivian R1T.
Granted they are paraphrasing another couple but it sounds like the information is pretty reliable as they were the ones to tow the 2000 lb trailer with their Model X.

[MarkyMark]

Yea, seems like production will ramp in 2023 so we'll get it in 2024.

Not sure if you seen the more recent video, it doesnt look as impressive as it's not as big as the concept.


Yeah I actually don't mind the updated design, and I'm sure most of these people who reserved one right away have never actually driven a F350 sized truck before and would quickly realize it's not for them.

Honestly the smaller they make it the better off they'll probably be. Unless you have a driveway even a regular F150 doesn't fit in a lot of garages so charging it at night becomes another issue.

[!Aznboi128]

Yeah I actually don't mind the updated design, and I'm sure most of these people who reserved one right away have never actually driven a F350 sized truck before and would quickly realize it's not for them.

Honestly the smaller they make it the better off they'll probably be. Unless you have a driveway even a regular F150 doesn't fit in a lot of garages so charging it at night becomes another issue.
Yea, I hear ya. I drove the F-150 for a week while it was manageable it wasn't the best experience.

In honestly I'm kinda interested in the VW iD.Buzz. Imo Electric cars should be weird, quirky. Something different rather than blending in or looking like a massive egg.

[radeonboy]

Anyone here have the current-gen Soul EV that can share their experience? I'm looking for something to commute and putter around in and this seems to fit the bill price and range-wise.

[SumAznGuy]

Anyone here have the current-gen Soul EV that can share their experience? I'm looking for something to commute and putter around in and this seems to fit the bill price and range-wise.

My boss has a 2017 with the 30 kwh battery.
right now the battery is at 91% and he only gets about 100km of range.

BEsides that, he's enjoyed the car.

What else would you like to know?