[mikemhg]

I agree that accountability is crucial. Law is what our society is based on, and everyone should abide the same law.

The reason I have different opinion of what's going on in the US vs. HK is this very issue. And it's the very same idea how I am making my statements.

HK has no choice. They have a gov't who isn't willing to have dialogue. After all, they do whatever Beijing says, and if Beijing is letting Lam to change stance, nothing will change. So, going on the street, even if there's the risk people rioting, one'd just take it. Because that is the last resort. The protestors in HK made their requests loud and clear. Beijing NEVER had a dialogue. It abandoned the proposal because it gave up. But it's clear that Beijing doesn't want ANY dialogue whatsoever because it doesn't want to set a precedent of "things are negotiable".

Now turn to the US, what requests did the protestors or writer made? I'm sorry... other than #BlackLivesMatter, I didn't see shit. The people just started looting because the opportunity it gave them. IT IS THEM who doesn't want to have a dialogue, NOT the government.

That's why I suggested that if the dems had any cojones, they'd announce that anyone arrested for looting or rioting WOULD be prosecuted to the MAXIMUM EXTENT the law permits.

I'm just asking the full accountability to go both way. Because this is the only way we'd protect our society; that the law apply the same way to everyone, no matter what side you are on... right or wrong.


Why don't you cut the dog whistling and just admit the truth here.

You support the HK protests because they are demographic of people homogeneous to you, thus you carry empathy for people of your own race, and you seem to not be able to empathize with those outside of that.

I'm not Asian, however I've supported the HK protesters, and have fully understood their rights and reasons from the very get go, that's the difference between you and I.

Your last comment was absolutely ridiculous. You claim the HK protesters have no choice, and yet black Americans do?

That is so unbelievably laughable that it truly shows your complete and absolute ignorance on the very subject. The black community, the NAACP, The Southern Poverty Law Center, the list goes on of groups that have cried for a dialog with the Federal and State governments on this issue for fucking decades now, with literally NO ACTION.

I still truly can't believe you wrote that post thinking that was any type of credible rebuttal.

To claim that the HK protesters have no option, and yet the black community does, is so asinine, I don't even know how to unpack that sentiment.

If you can't see that blatant hypocrisy in your comments, I ask you to educate yourself further on this subject and the respective advocacy groups fighting this cause for longer then you've been living on this Earth.

[mikemhg]

Didn't you call me an alt-right Russian bot first?

I don't know much about this subject. I just think police brutality is bad.

Here's an interesting perspective for you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7ewJtUOVjA

Oh yes Candace Owens, the proverbial sycophantic Uncle Tom minstrel that right-wing conservatives love to cart out as a representative of the black community in times like these :lol

Candice Owens has never, and will never, represent the black community writ large. What's next a video of comments from David Clarke, or Omarosa? :lol

I appreciate you admitting you have little knowledge on the subject, I'll give you credit for that, at least.

[mikemhg]

Tell you what Hehe, based on your opinion.

Maybe I should just say the HK Protesters need to smarten up, what's their message anyways? They're Chinese, they need to support their government, the CCP. They need to understand that Hong Kong is part of China, and to give it up already. Why are they causing so much damage to their community? The CCP has given them prosperity, these people need to accept the fact that times up, and that they need to step in line and be a part of the country at large.

Besides, what's their message anyways? I just see a bunch of kids rioting and protesting, fighting with cops, and carrying umbrellas.

I'm being sarcastic here, but you see how stupid these comments sound? That's exactly what you're saying here in relation to the cause I'm speaking about.

[birddog3k]

Oh yes Candace Owens, the proverbial sycophantic Uncle Tom minstrel that right-wing conservatives love to cart out as a representative of the black community in times like these :lol

Candice Owens has never, and will never, represent the black community writ large. What's next a video of comments from David Clarke, or Omarosa? :lol

I appreciate you admitting you have little knowledge on the subject, I'll give you credit for that, at least.

What do you think about what she said?

To paraphrase, the Democrats don't care about black people, they just want black votes. Police brutality and white nationalism were ALSO brought up in the last election as talking points because those issues stir up a lot of anger, which is great for news media. The real issues facing black people: high rate of single motherhood and illiteracy are not things that are ever brought up because the Dems don't really care.

I think those are some good points. And keep in mind this video is from last year.

Do you have any opinions on those specific ideas? In my opinion you don't have to represent the community to have an opinion on it.

And I'm not a right-wing conservative. I'm more of a classical liberal.

[Manic!]

What do you think about what she said?

To paraphrase, the Democrats don't care about black people, they just want black votes. Police brutality and white nationalism were ALSO brought up in the last election as talking points because those issues stir up a lot of anger, which is great for news media. The real issues facing black people: high rate of single motherhood and illiteracy are not things that are ever brought up because the Dems don't really care.

I think those are some good points. And keep in mind this video is from last year.

Do you have any opinions on those specific ideas? In my opinion you don't have to represent the community to have an opinion on it.

And I'm not a right-wing conservative. I'm more of a classical liberal.

Like Rosanne?

Roseanne was a liberal, in the classical sense. Not the radicalized left that it's become.
There's no interest in teaching. Only suppression.
Everyone makes mistakes. Some have, at the very least, the moral character to recognize them.

[birddog3k]

Like Rosanne?

I'm not sure what Roseanne thinks.

I shouldn't say I'm this or that actually, because I might not agree with every single issue that's pigeon-holed for each group.

I think a government should have a minimal influence on the lives of people. In my opinion the main roles should be to:
Have an army and national defence to defend the country from foreign invaders
Have a police force to protect individuals from coercion from other individuals
Have courts to provide a mechanism for individuals to adjudicate disputes
Maintain the roads and bridges
Fire protection with fire halls
Significantly lower taxes to pay for a smaller government

That's it. We the people can handle everything else.

[will068]

Didn't you call me an alt-right Russian bot first?

I don't know much about this subject. I just think police brutality is bad.

Here's an interesting perspective for you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7ewJtUOVjA

Candace Owens is a coon.

You can dismiss what comes out of that woman's mouth.

[mikemhg]

What do you think about what she said?

To paraphrase, the Democrats don't care about black people, they just want black votes. Police brutality and white nationalism were ALSO brought up in the last election as talking points because those issues stir up a lot of anger, which is great for news media. The real issues facing black people: high rate of single motherhood and illiteracy are not things that are ever brought up because the Dems don't really care.

I think those are some good points. And keep in mind this video is from last year.

Do you have any opinions on those specific ideas? In my opinion you don't have to represent the community to have an opinion on it.

And I'm not a right-wing conservative. I'm more of a classical liberal.

What do you want me to tell you Bird? Now you're trying to direct the conversation about Democrats and Republicans, both parties have their share of issues in terms of race, but we know quite clearly which one elected the first black president, bit of a false equivalency there, my friend :lol But I'm not here to cape for the Democrats, both parties have failed the black community, with one being far worse.

Both your points are classic white washed arguments that have been utilized for ages. Blame the victim, it's like grabbing a child's arm and hitting them with it, and then asking them why they're hitting themselves.

You are mentioning the consequence without addressing the causation.

Much of the damage to the family unit over the last number of decades can directly be traced back to Jim Crow era laws, exacerbated by the war on drugs in the 80's, and the subsequent crime bills of the 90's.

When you incarcerate wide swaths of black men, what do you expect will happen to the family unit? What do you think those children will learn as men without having their fathers around? It is a self fulfilling cycle.

You mention literacy. You do know how public schools work, don't you? They are funded through property taxes, what happens when you historically red-line communities to where there is no economic wealth? You end up with financially strapped, poor public schools, with the obvious consequences. That is further exasperated by many southern states which have continued to push segregation by abolishing school bus initiatives used in the past to allow black students to attend schools in the wealthier white communities, where more tax dollars are directed to via elected politicians.

It's all very clear the reasons to why these communities are in the state they are in today, I truly don't understand how such basic facts can be escaped by those such as yourself.

Is there some culpability in the black community? Sure. Though to deny the very fundamental reasons we are here in the first place as a result of rampant historic, and current inequality is quite disingenuous.

Are you practicing simple cognitive dissonance or is it purposeful?

[SkinnyPupp]

What I don't get is why ppl are acting as if we're Americans...
1) This is a worldwide problem that has lasted centuries

2) Canada isn't much better in terms of how cops treat black people or first nations people compared to white

3) Look at the Canadian Politics thread. Ultra conservatism exists in Canada and needs to be countered. There are people who want to take the very worst aspects of America and bring them to Canada.

4) Making America better makes Canada better. Like it or not, they're the leaders of the free part of the world. They kind of suck right now, but we still count on them for a lot.

If America really falls apart (which sounds ridiculous but actually is feasible) you do not want to live in that world. Unless you're a billionaire fascist of course...

[birddog3k]

I don’t see any cognitive dissonance in what I’m saying. You’re going to have to be more specific.

I’m not suggesting that it’s entirely the fault of black people that they have a high father-lessness rates. One reason is because the government has incentivized people receiving social welfare to not marry the father of their child. If you marry, you get less social welfare money so you have generations of people who are going to grow up without fathers. The problem is going to get worse until this is addressed. Like the majority of government policy, it hurts the very people it professes to help because the people making these economic decisions, these politicians, don’t care about the results, they just want votes.

RE: Affirmative action, at Harvard, 70% of black students we’re failing or at risk of dropping out. This is because they were admitted to a school that was more difficult than they could handle. Those black students had high test scores and would have been star students had they gone to a school that matched their skill level. Going to Harvard and dropping out hurt their confidence and made them feel like failures.

The war on drugs, minimum wage, social welfare, affirmative action – these are the major things we should be studying to help improve the lives of the poor. Minimum wage for instance is not something I’ve heard any real economist say has a positive benefit to society. The only ones who like the idea are politicians who push it to a largely uninformed and economically uneducated population.

We live in a world where virtue signalling and being politically correct is more fashionable than the truth. Our consumerist society is obsessed with Instagram influencers and we treat celebrities like gods. I really don’t give a shit what the Rock has to say. I know it’s some pre-planned bullshit script meant to brainwash me.

The point is, the Democrat party supports these very programs that hurt poor people the most. You can blame racism and donate more money to BLM but it’s not going to do anything because you're not targeting the core issues. You can "end" police brutality and stop the 300 black lives that are being killed by police every year and you're still going to be wondering why black lives aren't improving. Watch us have the same conversation 4 years from now. Maybe next time it'll be because white people aren't hiring black people so now companies must have 40% minorities.

By the way, this is something you regularly do:

Definition of ad hominem
marked by or being an attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to the contentions made

It's gross and shows that you argue in bad faith.

[EndLeSS8]

HK has no choice. They have a gov't who isn't willing to have dialogue. After all, they do whatever Beijing says, and if Beijing is letting Lam to change stance, nothing will change. So, going on the street, even if there's the risk people rioting, one'd just take it. Because that is the last resort. The protestors in HK made their requests loud and clear. Beijing NEVER had a dialogue. It abandoned the proposal because it gave up. But it's clear that Beijing doesn't want ANY dialogue whatsoever because it doesn't want to set a precedent of "things are negotiable".



Black people has no choice. They have a gov't who isn't willing to have dialogue. After all, they do whatever Trump says, and if USA Government is letting Racial discrimination to continue to change stance, nothing will change. So, going on the street, even if there's the risk people rioting, one'd just take it. Because that is the last resort. The Black community and protesters in USA made their requests loud and clear. Black citizens NEVER had a dialogue. It abandoned the proposal because it gave up. But it's clear that Trump doesn't want ANY dialogue whatsoever because it doesn't want to set a precedent of "things are negotiable".

[68style]

Fuckin grosssssss have they learned NOTHING this past week?

*incident in Buffalo, google it*

[SkinnyPupp]

People will get so mad if I leave that up

I have to take it down because it's a disgusting violent act. However I know your intent is not the same as the gaslighting attempts the other member was doing. Unfortunately I'm pretty numb to this kind of footage myself, having seen police do exactly this on a weekly basis for the past year. But it's fair to just remove all this kind of footage, since I was forced to do so by the gaslighting that occurred on the last page. I knew this would happen eventually... I just have to accept that someone got their way, and successfully manipulated the thread from its intent (again we need a shrug emote lol)

In case people are wondering, an elderly protester was standing in front of a line of police, then didn't move away when they marched towards him as the curfew came into place. They shoved him backwards hard, and he fell backwards, cracking his skull on the cement, bleeding from his head and ears. He wasn't moving.

Another angle of the incident shows the disgusting sound it made as his skull hit the ground

He is alive in a hospital, that's all that's known about his condition. What happens from here, we won't know for a while.

Two police have been suspended (not arrested). Buffalo police said he tripped and fell. Thankfully it was caught on film, so we know it was actually attempted manslaughter.

Update: The mayor of Buffalo says the 75-year-old man is in serious condition. Unknown if he'll make it.

[Hehe]

Why don't you cut the dog whistling and just admit the truth here.

You support the HK protests because they are demographic of people homogeneous to you, thus you carry empathy for people of your own race, and you seem to not be able to empathize with those outside of that.

I'm not Asian, however I've supported the HK protesters, and have fully understood their rights and reasons from the very get go, that's the difference between you and I.

Your last comment was absolutely ridiculous. You claim the HK protesters have no choice, and yet black Americans do?

That is so unbelievably laughable that it truly shows your complete and absolute ignorance on the very subject. The black community, the NAACP, The Southern Poverty Law Center, the list goes on of groups that have cried for a dialog with the Federal and State governments on this issue for fucking decades now, with literally NO ACTION.

I still truly can't believe you wrote that post thinking that was any type of credible rebuttal.

To claim that the HK protesters have no option, and yet the black community does, is so asinine, I don't even know how to unpack that sentiment.

If you can't see that blatant hypocrisy in your comments, I ask you to educate yourself further on this subject and the respective advocacy groups fighting this cause for longer then you've been living on this Earth.

So, you are saying that looting and rioting is JUSTIFIABLE when a black dude die and suddenly BLM is the most trending hashtag on Twitter because we have to bring the unknown amount of racists out there.

Now, 7 million of yellow dudes and dudettes are having their BASIC FREEDOM, ALL THOSE GUARANTEED to YOU by our charters and the constitution in the US, taken away and that's NOT justifiable?

Who's the hypocrite here? Admit it... you care BLM ONLY because it's the fucking trend. It's the topic that's IN... if you don't talk about it and support it, it's wrong.

Where is your sympathy on yellow skin people? I thought we are arguing about racial equality. So, how many yellow skin dude's death would it take so that #YellowLivesMatter become a trend?

You think about that and then come to tell me who's the hypocrite here. The FACT is that you DON'T CARE BLM. You probably don't have any close black friends and you are only arguing for black people BECAUSE it's the COOL THING to do.

[MarkyMark]

So, you are saying that looting and rioting is JUSTIFIABLE when a black dude die and suddenly BLM is the most trending hashtag on Twitter because we have to bring the unknown amount of racists out there.

Now, 7 million of yellow dudes and dudettes are having their BASIC FREEDOM, ALL THOSE GUARANTEED to YOU by our charters and the constitution in the US, taken away and that's NOT justifiable?

Who's the hypocrite here? Admit it... you care BLM ONLY because it's the fucking trend. It's the topic that's IN... if you don't talk about it and support it, it's wrong.

Where is your sympathy on yellow skin people? I thought we are arguing about racial equality. So, how many yellow skin dude's death would it take so that #YellowLivesMatter become a trend?

You think about that and then come to tell me who's the hypocrite here. The FACT is that you DON'T CARE BLM. You probably don't have any close black friends and you are only arguing for black people BECAUSE it's the COOL THING to do.

I'm pretty sure Mike is black, or at least part black I don't know him personally lol, and you're going to say he's hopping on the BLM train cause it's trending?

I don't know what posts of his you've been reading but he's been nothing but supportive of the people and the shit going down in Hong Kong, yet you've done nothing but shit on what's been going on with Black people in the States.

You want hypocrisy? Read your posts defending what's going on in HK and thinking the shit happening to Black people in the States can be handled by simple dialogue. It's seriously laughable.

[underscore]

4) Making America better makes Canada better. Like it or not, they're the leaders of the free part of the world. They kind of suck right now, but we still count on them for a lot.

Also if the US actually becomes a proper developed nation it stops giving people the easy out of "well at least we're better than the US" for everything.

[Hehe]

Black people has no choice. They have a gov't who isn't willing to have dialogue. After all, they do whatever Trump says, and if USA Government is letting Racial discrimination to continue to change stance, nothing will change. So, going on the street, even if there's the risk people rioting, one'd just take it. Because that is the last resort. The Black community and protesters in USA made their requests loud and clear. Black citizens NEVER had a dialogue. It abandoned the proposal because it gave up. But it's clear that Trump doesn't want ANY dialogue whatsoever because it doesn't want to set a precedent of "things are negotiable".

Hahahaha... maybe you aren't in the US so you are based on a limited information.

Do you know who controls pretty much EVERY MAJOR cities in US currently in chaos? You can google it, but I'll give you the fact right here, DEMOCRATS.

Why democrats want to let this to carry out? Of course of their political reasons. I've said it before, these people should feel ashamed of themselves when they put their own personal/groupal agenda before actually doing things they have to do.

And you tell me this is "their" last resort? I believe you refer to the black people and people who "support racial equality"? So, before this incident, and the one prior (also "I can't breathe), where have they been all these time?

Oh yes... I'm sure Floyd's death brought this to their attention again. And they have finally had enough. You know the funny thing? The first case of I can't breathe... the death of Eric Garner in NY happened 5years ago. A time under Obama (Dem) administration and Cuomo never let the protest went out of control. There were even counter-protest arranged to show support to the police.

And also, many looting video I see in 2020 are people in their 20s and probably teens. I'm sure they were SUPER aware of racial discrimination cases back then, and this time they couldn't stand anymore, they needed to resort to violence.

So many coincidences.... :rukidding:

[Hehe]

I'm pretty sure Mike is black, or at least part black I don't know him personally lol, and you're going to say he's hopping on the BLM train cause it's trending?

I don't know what posts of his you've been reading but he's been nothing but supportive of the people and the shit going down in Hong Kong, yet you've done nothing but shit on what's been going on with Black people in the States.

You want hypocrisy? Read your posts defending what's going on in HK and thinking the shit happening to Black people in the States can be handled by simple dialogue. It's seriously laughable.

It doesn't make any difference if he's black or not. I'm just saying that if he thinks BLM because a black dude died. Then YellowLivesAlsoMatter because many Kongers have already died and injured for the cause.

In fact it's worse... If he thinks only BLM and not YLW... then he is also racist and hypocrite in his posts. BLM because it's trending and it matters to him because he's also black. So Yellow, or any other color for that matter currently suffering in the world don't deserve the same attention? Where's his racial equality?

And regarding having a dialogue. I am sorry, but I've yet to see any organizers asking to have one. They just went on the street, shout BLM and then started looting and rioting. Explain that to me how exactly they were PREPARED to have a dialogue?

[welfare]

You mention literacy. You do know how public schools work, don't you? They are funded through property taxes, what happens when you historically red-line communities to where there is no economic wealth? You end up with financially strapped, poor public schools, with the obvious consequences.
False.
The five highest per pupil funded school districts are all overrepresented by black students.
https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2019/school-spending.html
Baltimore city district, the third highest funded in the country, reported six schools where not one single student was proficient in math or reading.
https://www.educationdive.com/news/several-baltimore-schools-report-0-students-proficient-in-math-reading/443155/


That is further exasperated by many southern states which have continued to push segregation by abolishing school bus initiatives used in the past to allow black students to attend schools in the wealthier white communities, where more tax dollars are directed to via elected politicians.


You mean charter schools?
Of which the Trump administration has been a huge proponent?
Biden on the other hand...
https://exclusive.multibriefs.com/content/where-trump-biden-stand-on-charter-school-policy/civil-government

how about HBCU's? This administration has spent more than any other President in history.
https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/local/verify/verify-has-trump-given-more-money-to-hbcus-than-any-other-president/65-543185506

[MarkyMark]

It doesn't make any difference if he's black or not. I'm just saying that if he thinks BLM because a black dude died. Then YellowLivesAlsoMatter because many Kongers have already died and injured for the cause.

In fact it's worse... If he thinks only BLM and not YLW... then he is also racist and hypocrite in his posts. BLM because it's trending and it matters to him because he's also black. So Yellow, or any other color for that matter currently suffering in the world don't deserve the same attention? Where's his racial equality?

And regarding having a dialogue. I am sorry, but I've yet to see any organizers asking to have one. They just went on the street, shout BLM and then started looting and rioting. Explain that to me how exactly they were PREPARED to have a dialogue?

Who said any other lives don't matter? Jesus Christ, if people don't get that saying BLM MEANS ALL LIVES MATTER then I don't know what to say. It's so obvious when they say black lives matter they are pleading with people that they are human too, just like everyone else. They aren't trying to put themselves on a pedestal saying their lives are worth more, they are saying they don't deserve to be treated less.

Do some research, they've done the 'I have a dream' speeches, shit didn't work.

[Hehe]

Who said any other lives don't matter? Jesus Christ, if people don't get that saying BLM MEANS ALL LIVES MATTER then I don't know what to say. It's so obvious when they say black lives matter they are pleading with people that they are human too, just like everyone else. They aren't trying to put themselves on a pedestal saying their lives are worth more, they are saying they don't deserve to be treated less.

Do some research, they've done the 'I have a dream' speeches, shit didn't work.

Bahahaha.... yes... I'm sure BLM meant all lives matter. If that makes you feel better, by all means, stick your belief in that.

https://nypost.com/2020/06/02/nba-announcer-grant-napear-fired-over-all-live-matter-comment/

One thing I want to make ABSOLUTELY CLEAR here. I'm ALL IN FULL SUPPORT of racial equality and any fight to bring this issue to an end. I'm a minority myself, I have encounter many many instances of racism against myself. So I know what kind of problem racism brings.

What I AM AGAINST is people USING THIS AS AN EXCUSE to bring havoc. And also people who are using this to bring another FORM of racism. So now BLM? How about everyone else? Heck, even the white people.

I SUPPORT RACIAL EQUALITY. Where no RACE SHOULD HAVE ANY Priority. As of now, many of the BLM movement seem to be going the wrong way. It's ONLY BLMatter... but they don't give a rat ass fuck about others. I'm sorry... but THAT IS RACISM AT ITS WORST in my opinion.

And if one thinks otherwise... ANYTHING other than BLM.... you are guilty as charged.

If that's what this has come to... then I've nothing else to say... I'm just a yellow guy... my life doesn't matter because all they care is BLM.

[MarkyMark]

Bahahaha.... yes... I'm sure BLM meant all lives matter. If that makes you feel better, by all means, stick your belief in that.

https://nypost.com/2020/06/02/nba-announcer-grant-napear-fired-over-all-live-matter-comment/

One thing I want to make ABSOLUTELY CLEAR here. I'm ALL IN FULL SUPPORT of racial equality and any fight to bring this issue to an end. I'm a minority myself, I have encounter many many instances of racism against myself. So I know what kind of problem racism brings.

What I AM AGAINST is people USING THIS AS AN EXCUSE to bring havoc. And also people who are using this to bring another FORM of racism. So now BLM? How about everyone else? Heck, even the white people.

I SUPPORT RACIAL EQUALITY. Where no RACE SHOULD HAVE ANY Priority. As of now, many of the BLM movement seem to be going the wrong way. BLMatter... but they don't give a rat ass fuck about others. I'm sorry... but THAT IS RACISM AT ITS WORST in my opinion.

And if one thinks otherwise... ANYTHING other than BLM.... you are guilty as charged.

If that's what this has come to... then I've nothing else to say... I'm just a yellow guy... my life doesn't matter because all they care is BLM.

In one ear and out the other, have a good night.

[Manic!]

I'm not sure what Roseanne thinks.

I shouldn't say I'm this or that actually, because I might not agree with every single issue that's pigeon-holed for each group.

I think a government should have a minimal influence on the lives of people. In my opinion the main roles should be to:
Have an army and national defence to defend the country from foreign invaders
Have a police force to protect individuals from coercion from other individuals
Have courts to provide a mechanism for individuals to adjudicate disputes
Maintain the roads and bridges
Fire protection with fire halls
Significantly lower taxes to pay for a smaller government

That's it. We the people can handle everything else.

What about water, sewer, and garbage?

[68style]

Hahahaha... maybe you aren't in the US so you are based on a limited information.

Do you know who controls pretty much EVERY MAJOR cities in US currently in chaos? You can google it, but I'll give you the fact right here, DEMOCRATS.



Psssssssstttt..... this argument is completely invalidated by the fact every major city in the USA is Democratic... kind of hard for any Republican mayor of a major city to show what they might have done differently............... because there aren't any!

Here's a heat map for you, only rural / arguably poorly educated places vote heavily Republican...

https://mk0brilliantmaptxoqs.kinstacdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016nationwidecountymapshadedbyvoteshare.png

All the blue areas are big cities or highly developed areas... all the red is, well, you can put it together.

[westopher]

Hehe you really need to re-read what you are posting. You are calling out someone else for doing something that YOU are literally doing in every post.
Mike never once said he didn’t support HK protesters. You continue to state reasons why the HK protests are more valid because their government refuses dialogue.
CAN YOU REALLY BE IMPLYING THAT THE US GOVERNMENT IS WILLING TO HAVE DIALOGUE ABOUT THESE ISSUES OF SYSTEMIC RACISM THAT HAVE EXISTED SINCE THE FOUNDING OF THE COUNTRY? Don’t you think maybe it would have happened by now? I mean, it’s not like people never asked.

[SkinnyPupp]

I missed this today somehow

https://twitter.com/lisabendermpls/status/1268644819628224513

That's the president of the city council, they are really going to try to get this done (https://nypost.com/2020/06/04/minneapolis-city-council-members-pledge-to-dismantle-police-department/)

I've said a million times here that the police here and elsewhere need to just be rebooted and started from scratch under a new system. If Minneapolis actually gets it done, that would be beyond amazing.

[Acura604]

meanwhile.. racism continues to thrive. let's face it... this concept is not going to be rooted out in at least a few generations. its hard coded and running in generations for some of these redneck trash.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-george-floyd-challenge-and-how-a-handful-of-racist-idiots-went-viral

https://1624909224.rsc.cdn77.org/data/thumbs/full/99528/650/0/0/0/teens-participate-in-george-floyd-challenge-police-investigates-posts-and-is-treated-as-hate-crime.png

[GLOW]

i just read that on social media but the pictures weren't sharpied out. apparently in the UK a few teens were charged for it.

[westopher]

They should really make diversity and tolerance a more focal point in education so these kids have a chance of realizing how stupid their parents are that engrain the intolerance into them. That’s probably a good place to start.

[Hondaracer]

In b4 Vancouver protests turn ugly tonight and people forget why they cared

[twitchyzero]

https://www.haydenplanetarium.org/tyson/commentary/2020-06-03-reflections-on-color-of-my-skin.php

[320icar]

They should really make diversity and tolerance a more focal point in education so these kids have a chance of realizing how stupid their parents are that engrain the intolerance into them. That’s probably a good place to start.

It really starts with the family. My mom/dad would not have stood for that shit from my brother and i

[MG1]

They should really make diversity and tolerance a more focal point in education so these kids have a chance of realizing how stupid their parents are that engrain the intolerance into them. That’s probably a good place to start.

It's a tough one. Kids see bullying everywhere. In the news, television shows, movies, advertisement, in the neighbourhood, in school, after school activities, church, parents, friends - everywhere.

Somewhere over the years, it has gotten out of hand. Girls use to stick to being mean, but nowadays, they're becoming more and more violent. They need to teach the Golden Rule again in schools and pre-schools.

Kids have no moral compass. Nobody teaches them right from wrong and very few examples of kindness exists. It gets worse with each generation. We need to somehow make it cool to be kind and thoughtful.

Too many takers and not enough givers.


Take RS, for example. I can rattle of a dozen members who do nothing but destroy. I used to post more on RS. It's hard to keep positive. There's no point, it seems.

Let's hear more positive stories. Even if it' seems trivial. It all adds up. MSREE had a thread that was cool. I don't know where it is anymore. Random Acts of Kindness thread, another one.

I'm no angel, either. I've said and done some really stupid things. I avoid arguing as much as possible. I try not to fail people who have differing opinions, unless it becomes personal. Even then, I try to ignore and not feed the fire.

It's hard to be positive. /sermon

[twitchyzero]

what are you doing outside of your rape dungeon gulolololol

[Ch28]

They should really make diversity and tolerance a more focal point in education so these kids have a chance of realizing how stupid their parents are that engrain the intolerance into them. That’s probably a good place to start.

They really should overhaul the public education system while they're at it.

More emphasis needs to be put into real-life issues such as financial literacy.

[westopher]

Totally. The curriculum has not been made to keep up to modern times. I’m not sure where the money would come from in Canada for such a large project to be fair.
For the US it’s pretty obvious. A little less money spent on military and the fucking space army would be a good start.

[westopher]

It really starts with the family. My mom/dad would not have stood for that shit from my brother and i
Unfortunately some kids aren’t lucky enough to have smart parents.

[Manic!]

Some people in Canada have been fired for doing the challenge including a Canadian border services employee.

https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/ep4xdm/canada-border-services-fires-employee-after-racist-video-mocks-george-floyd

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2020/06/02/woman-loses-job-after-video-posted-on-social-media-mocking-death-of-george-floyd.html

[westopher]

How can people be so stupid? I’m sure everyone here has made a questionable joke Or a few in their lifetimes, but how to be deaf do you have to be to be this stupid, and to broadcast it to the world?
What do they think these things will accomplish? Get a laugh? Create some sort of argument they are looking for? Like, what’s the plan here?

[whitev70r]

^ "Social media is the toilet of the internet" ... Lady Gaga

The desire for likes drives people to do stupid shit.

[mikemhg]

So, you are saying that looting and rioting is JUSTIFIABLE when a black dude die and suddenly BLM is the most trending hashtag on Twitter because we have to bring the unknown amount of racists out there.

Now, 7 million of yellow dudes and dudettes are having their BASIC FREEDOM, ALL THOSE GUARANTEED to YOU by our charters and the constitution in the US, taken away and that's NOT justifiable?

Who's the hypocrite here? Admit it... you care BLM ONLY because it's the fucking trend. It's the topic that's IN... if you don't talk about it and support it, it's wrong.

Where is your sympathy on yellow skin people? I thought we are arguing about racial equality. So, how many yellow skin dude's death would it take so that #YellowLivesMatter become a trend?

You think about that and then come to tell me who's the hypocrite here. The FACT is that you DON'T CARE BLM. You probably don't have any close black friends and you are only arguing for black people BECAUSE it's the COOL THING to do.

I appreciate the sentiments from other posters in this thread who corroborated my support of the protesters in Hong Kong.

Hehe, I am black. My father is from Nigeria, my mother is Irish.

My family has always been political in nature and involved in those facets both here in Canada, and in Nigeria.

I can very much assure you that this isn't some "fad" to me, this is my life.

I see that you want to turn this thread and make it about you, or "yellow" people for that matter, and you have literally not read a single one of my posts, it is obvious you are not here for any real dialog.

Good luck to you, perhaps if there's an RS Meet, you and I can speak in person further. Outside of that, I wish you and the movement of the HK protesters the very best.

We will not agree on these other issues, and I personally do not care enough to change your mind at this point.

[underscore]

It gets worse with each generation.

The only change is we are able to hear about it more with each generation. I guarantee you people were just as capable of being pieces of shit in years past, word just didn't travel as fast or as far.

[twitchyzero]

stay crassy vancouver

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZuRlOqWoAEg6Br?format=jpg&name=medium

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/anti-police-sandwich-board-vancouver-restaurant-staff-member-stands-by-it-despite-complaint-1.4970840

[MSREE]

meanwhile.. racism continues to thrive. let's face it... this concept is not going to be rooted out in at least a few generations. its hard coded and running in generations for some of these redneck trash.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-george-floyd-challenge-and-how-a-handful-of-racist-idiots-went-viral

https://1624909224.rsc.cdn77.org/data/thumbs/full/99528/650/0/0/0/teens-participate-in-george-floyd-challenge-police-investigates-posts-and-is-treated-as-hate-crime.png

Yeah I was gonna post this picture with the faces not blurred out.
However my views are not peaceful.
I struggle with what to say because honestly when I see shit like this I feel RAGE.
I wish these kids would feel the fear and pain that black people and other minorities feel when we see this shit.

I have to really think about what I post and how I respond because I don’t want to promote more violence and hate than what is already out there..

But every fucking time I see this picture I also feel that a little violence would teach these kids a lesson. I wonder who raised these people.

Also to Hehe, respectfully you’re kinda dumb. These guys are being nice to you but you really do not understand the meaning of black lives matter.

Imagine you have a child. The child dies. You have a funeral for your child in a closed room and you’re at the podium telling everyone in the room how much you will miss your child and all the ways your child was special.

NOW, someone kicks open the door to your funeral. This person rushes you at the podium and grabs the microphone and yells “WE ALL HAVE CHILDREN TOO THAT ARE ALSO SPECIAL THAT MAY DIE SOMEDAY”.

You’re the person who kicked open the door to the funeral and yelled at everyone in the funeral room with this “all lives matter” shit.

Nobody is saying that black lives matter over other lives.
Black lives matter is a call for justice for the lives that were taken with no consequence and for this situation to STOP HAPPENING without any consequences for the perpetrators.

There are two houses. The one on the right is ON FIRE.
The firemen come and hose down the house on the right.
The house on the left is still a house and still important but it’s not fucking on fire.
Would you yell at the firemen and tell them to hose down the house on the left too?

Just because we aren’t black doesn’t mean we shouldn’t care.
This affects all minorities. Oppression works best when we are divided.
If we stand together and support each other, there is a better chance for real change.

It shouldn’t have to be that something heartbreaking happens to someone we love for us to care. We should already care because we are human beings who want a better world.

In my opinion, fuck businesses. They have insurance. A lot of businesses that have been affected by rioting have stated that the stores are fine and the company stands behind the protestors. When they were kneeling in NFL games they didn’t like that either. MLK marches and it wasn’t right. So???? How then?
There’s never a right time or way to protest that will be accepted by the system it’s against.

ALSO, there are always opportunists at large gatherings like these. I have seen lots of peaceful protests. You can’t say that all the people destroying property and looting are really for BLM. I saw a video of cops marching towards protestors and breaking a window of a car? I’ve seen videos of cops unloading bricks from their vehicles to instigate protestors.
Jake Paul was arrested for looting. I really doubt that shit stain is for BLM.

If your main concern is for damaged property, your priorities are fucked up.
What you’re really saying is these businesses are more important than the lives taken, more important than the brutality of the crimes committed.

When you work at a retail store, they always tell you if someone comes to steal, give them what they want and do not try to stop them.
Product is replaceable. A LIFE IS NOT.

[SkinnyPupp]

https://twitter.com/cnnbrk/status/1268985812605075456

[GS8]

What's everyone's thoughts on the planned protest at the Vancouver convention center tomorrow.

Do these protestors forget were in a fucking pandemic? My ass has been home doing my part while we have thousands making they're way downtown in crowded skytrains.

All of our commendable work in keeping the infection rate low goes down the toilet with these idiots.

A lot of people made sacrifices to get us this far because that's what good people do. We care about our communities, we care about doing our part to help the bigger picture and to achieve that end goal with an optimistic outcome. Yes there will be causalities but it's in our best interest to do what we can to minimize those causalities.

Because of this virus, people had to:

Cancel weddings
Cancel reunions
Cancel trips
Cancel funerals
Could not see their dying loved ones in person at the hospital which resulted in stories like this (https://globalnews.ca/news/6797023/nurse-poem-patient-death-coronavirus/)
Could not assist their disabled relatives in hospital leading to this (https://globalnews.ca/news/6866586/bc-woman-disability-dies-covid-19/)
Learn their vulnerable parents died hours apart (https://globalnews.ca/news/6759937/bc-man-parents-die-covid-19/)
Family could not return to Canada resulting in this (https://www.vancourier.com/sports/calgary-couple-stranded-in-india-by-covid-19-pandemic-killed-family-1.24145822)

How many more? It's not just the virus but the pandora's box the virus opens.

We are so close to the start of phase 3 and this protest is happening now. Remember when people went in full rat mode, exposing people on social media who were romping in the park (https://www.thestar.com/opinion/star-columnists/2020/05/25/we-screwed-up-toronto-trinity-bellwoods-park-looked-more-like-a-scene-out-of-coachella-19-than-life-under-covid-19.html) or hanging at the beach? A protest typically involves a lot of shouting and possible sweating.

Of course the George Floyd death was awful but swift action was taken and charges laid. I get the bigger cause but most of the people I see speaking on the news just want to be the maestro of the masses. Take charge and lead the pack in an endless circle while convincing them they're doing something worthy, all while basking in the UV rays of their own delusion of grandeur. To call people like Al Sharpton a snake is an insult to snakes. To say the media is reporting to look out for our best interests is an insult to journalism. It's all about generating revenue so they can continue to pat themselves on the back while publicly ridiculing anyone who dare cross their narrative. Funny how you can't cancel culture a news station even with fake news they spit out. They are never held accountable. They move on and act as if nothing happened. Institutions of sociopathy.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/SnappyHairyAfricanclawedfrog-size_restricted.gif

I hope the medical systems around the world don't get swamped again. Imagine getting another wave before the actual second wave is supposed to come.

[EndLeSS8]

https://twitter.com/cnnbrk/status/1268985812605075456

:fulloffuck:


Why were chokeholds even allowed...???

Every time I see a suspect being detained, there is always at least 3 cops for every 1 suspect

[Hondaracer]

stay crassy vancouver

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZuRlOqWoAEg6Br?format=jpg&name=medium

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/anti-police-sandwich-board-vancouver-restaurant-staff-member-stands-by-it-despite-complaint-1.4970840

The ironic thing is the clientele of what’s up hotdog is like the most fucking yuppy granola munching clowns you’ve ever seen, if they ever had the slightest bit of trouble they are the type to instantly call 911 over the stupidest shit possible.

They are also predominantly the type that have probably -never- had an encounter with the police

I live right around the corner from it, fuck that place.

[BIC_BAWS]

:fulloffuck:





Why were chokeholds even allowed...???



Every time I see a suspect being detained, there is always at least 3 cops for every 1 suspectMy buddy actually told me the reason for this. He said in training that it took around 3 guys to pin him down, and same was said when he was trying to pin someone else down (another trainee)

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

[underscore]

All 57 members of the Boston ERT resigned after the incident where the 75 year old man was shoved down for no reason. Not for good reasons, but because they don't like how the two officers "who were following orders" are being treated. At least they're making it easier to clear out the shitty cops.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/501378-57-buffalo-officers-resign-from-emergency-response-team-in-response-to?fbclid=IwAR2ejO9HCq-sbc4WsOC7qDgXFoiCxlTS5D846V-T4VU6CaPq9CjMrVdsjHo

[SkinnyPupp]

All 57 members of the Boston ERT resigned after the incident where the 75 year old man was shoved down for no reason. Not for good reasons, but because they don't like how the two officers "who were following orders" are being treated. At least they're making it easier to clear out the shitty cops.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/501378-57-buffalo-officers-resign-from-emergency-response-team-in-response-to?fbclid=IwAR2ejO9HCq-sbc4WsOC7qDgXFoiCxlTS5D846V-T4VU6CaPq9CjMrVdsjHo
Good they can fuck off. Don't let them come back. If they can't see how wrong that was, they shouldn't be police in the first place.

The whole police system needs to be rebooted bit by bit, city by city. I am actually somewhat hopeful that can happen, because America is set up to be able to do that. They're already moving towards it in Minnesota.

[SkinnyPupp]

NFL: "We admit we were wrong for not listening to NFL players earlier and encourage all to speak out and peacefully protest"

https://twitter.com/nfl/status/1269034074552721408

After some players made this video calling them out (including Patrick Mahomes, the face of the league)

https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/1268713016356454400

[Jmac]

Fuck the NFL, they had chance after chance to make it right and actively went in the other direction.

Fuck Buffalo’s ERT.

[SkinnyPupp]

Fuck the NFL, they had chance after chance to make it right and actively went in the other direction.

Fuck Buffalo’s ERT.
I agree but it shouldn't ever be too late to try to change. If we don't let someone who fucked up try to make up for it, what are we even trying to do?

The fact that they literally admitted they were wrong is a pretty huge thing, and if they hadn't said that, people would have every right to be all over them about any other statements made.

They still need to follow up of course, and deserve to be called out if they don't, and action should be taken by players and fans if they don't. But if they do, things are starting to change a bit. These small steps add up.

First thing they need to do is get more black people in management, both in the league and in teams. The players are 70% black, but league management is obviously not.

[underscore]

The NFL only cares about making money. They have no issues exploiting the US education system and taxpayer funding, or employing spousal abusers, animal abusers and rapists.

At best they're doing this to try to keep the players happy since they realized a large number of the players are black and they don't have much of a product to sell without them.

[Manic!]

Went to the BLM protest in Nanaimo. The crowd was way bigger than I expected. everyone was wearing masks. A lot of great speeches and some sad stories.

The sign I made. (black and red)

https://photos.smugmug.com/Blm/i-B4vJHwR/0/49e40cba/X2/20200605_182604-X2.jpg
https://photos.smugmug.com/Blm/i-XSRzHDZ/0/0a4a6f73/X2/20200605_170553-X2.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/Blm/i-cfDVCjZ/0/3f14da03/X2/20200605_152409_HDR-X2.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/Blm/i-Njd7nM7/0/f6f25ad6/X2/20200605_170550_HDR-X2.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/Blm/i-88mfjwF/0/f08ab315/X2/20200605_182622-X2.jpg

[SkinnyPupp]

The NFL only cares about making money. They have no issues exploiting the US education system and taxpayer funding, or employing spousal abusers, animal abusers and rapists.

At best they're doing this to try to keep the players happy since they realized a large number of the players are black and they don't have much of a product to sell without them.
I agree, but every corporation only really cares about making money. What can be done with that money? Also NFL is a cultural influencer in America (don't know how else to put it, that sounds weird but I think you get what I mean). They made it "OK" to oppose peaceful protesting, and are now saying how wrong that was.

I mean it's not like "we won, let's all go home now" but I think this was a positive sign in the right direction. Those need to be pointed out too, otherwise we'd just be talking about the police brutality on protesters, and violent looters over and over again that surround this whole thing.

[StylinRed]

Jordan pledged $100 million to racial equality education charities, which is surprising since he's always remained low key

[westopher]

Fuck the NFL, they had chance after chance to make it right and actively went in the other direction.

Fuck Buffalo’s ERT.
NFL can suck a fucking dick. As underscore said, they look the other way when it comes to animal abuse, rape, domestic violence, racism, while vilifying non violent protest, and completely ignoring the health issues that the players suffer due to them pumping them full of drugs to make it through a game and ignoring TBIs in the game. As soon as they realize their greed is going to cost them 75% of their "employees" they shit their pants and pretend to care. Bunch of fucking cunts.

[GS8]

stay crassy vancouver

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZuRlOqWoAEg6Br?format=jpg&name=medium

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/anti-police-sandwich-board-vancouver-restaurant-staff-member-stands-by-it-despite-complaint-1.4970840

So if someone broke in and stole their tape collection, who would they call? Klein Lyons?

Regarding the NFL, I hated that it was a tax exempt entity but they gave up that status only 5 years ago...

[whitev70r]

Colin Kaepernick is the new Nelson Mandela. His down on one knee is now THE symbol of the movement! Let's see if he becomes the next NFL commissioner.

[Manic!]

So if someone broke in and stole their tape collection, who would they call? Klein Lyons?



Calling the cops on something like that is pointless. I didn't even call last time something like that happened at our store.

[Jmac]

Colin Kaepernick is the new Nelson Mandela. His down on one knee is now THE symbol of the movement! Let's see if he becomes the next NFL commissioner.
The commissioner in major sports leagues is basically the main representative of the team owners. Kaepernick is like the last guy the owners would want as commissioner.

[Jmac]

I agree but it shouldn't ever be too late to try to change. If we don't let someone who fucked up try to make up for it, what are we even trying to do?

The fact that they literally admitted they were wrong is a pretty huge thing, and if they hadn't said that, people would have every right to be all over them about any other statements made.

They still need to follow up of course, and deserve to be called out if they don't, and action should be taken by players and fans if they don't. But if they do, things are starting to change a bit. These small steps add up.

First thing they need to do is get more black people in management, both in the league and in teams. The players are 70% black, but league management is obviously not. It’s a disingenuous move to try to regain the fan, sponsor, and player support they’re losing from this.

As you said in your other response, it’s all about money. Okay, sure, I guess them changing their stance is better than not, but that doesn’t make it any less of an obvious and disingenuous play.

[danned]

https://9gag.com/gag/aR7ep15
FailFish

[SkinnyPupp]

It’s a disingenuous move to try to regain the fan, sponsor, and player support they’re losing from this.

As you said in your other response, it’s all about money. Okay, sure, I guess them changing their stance is better than not, but that doesn’t make it any less of an obvious and disingenuous play.
I suspect you're right, and I'm just trying too hard not to be cynical.

It's much easier to see when Amazon puts out a BS statement... With this, I see someone reacting to the actual people who work for them.

[GLOW]

they really need to start cracking down on 911 calls, it can get people killed

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-06-03/svitlana-flom-amy-cooper-george-floyd-police-racism?fbclid=IwAR0F2Os8rT0nU9-CGbzWLtkX20R-CrVqJ7Wal56DwNiPW2ywz0THH6UE6DA

[mikemhg]

I have to say, I'm quite proud of most of the posters on RS in this thread here, overall it seems that most people here are on the right side, and that's extremely encouraging. There are a couple pricks here, but they appear to be the minority.

Big ups to you all FeelsGoodMan

[Hondaracer]

Had a lengthy discussion last night with a friend of my wife’s who came over for a bbq

We had some opposing views and early into the debate I felt like not pursuing it as some of her points I felt like we were not going to get passed but we continued the discussion over about 40 minutes or so. She was quite informed and had a lot to say and by the end we both took a lot from each other’s opinions.

Really thought of this thread as we chatted and by the end of it she definitely gave me a lot to think about and really made me think about how I can actively change the way I think about things/people/circumstance etc.

Might be just because everyone that came over was seemingly starved for human interaction but it felt like a very valuable conversation.

[Jmac]

they really need to start cracking down on 911 calls, it can get people killed

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-06-03/svitlana-flom-amy-cooper-george-floyd-police-racism?fbclid=IwAR0F2Os8rT0nU9-CGbzWLtkX20R-CrVqJ7Wal56DwNiPW2ywz0THH6UE6DA
Behind a pay wall

[underscore]

Behind a pay wall

It isn't for me? But here's the article:

Americans of all stripes are taking to the streets to protest the unjust killing of George Floyd at the hands of Minneapolis police — and the larger issues of police brutality and institutional racism in our society. The vast majority of Americans support these protests.

But even if you’re white and among the paltry 14% of people who strongly disagree with the protests, one might think the recent international humiliation of Amy Cooper for her racist behavior would be enough to at least provoke some circumspection. Enough circumspection to say … not frivolously call police on a black woman for going about her day.

Alas, no.

Little more than a week after the Cooper video went viral — and in the middle of national protests over systemic racism — white New York restaurateur Svitlana Flom called police multiple times on a black woman sitting on an Upper West Side Manhattan park bench, alleging “harassment” and threats against her child.

A series of Instagram posts by user @_brownsugarbaby (the recipient of Flom’s wrath), don’t show anything of the sort. What they show is an entitled white woman appalled at not getting her way — and willing to summon shock troops away from escalating civil unrest until she gets it.

Yes, Flom actually said: “She’s playing the black card.”

Flom alleges the video was selectively edited to make her “look racist.” But it’s pretty clear that she was in no physical danger while making her 911 calls. Her husband walks away from the encounter in apparent mortification while her child plays on a scooter, seemingly carefree, nearby.

This is not what danger looks like.

Danger is not someone sitting calmly on a park bench recording you with their cellphone. Danger is not feeling comfortable enough to sit feet away from your supposed menace, crossing your legs and waiting for police to arrive.

Unprecedented nationwide protests and the message still isn’t getting through.

Amy Cooper’s reprehensible call to police caused her to lose her job, her reputation and even her dog.

Falsely reporting an incident to authorities is a crime in New York and most other states. Aggressively prosecuting these statutes is what it will probably take for the message to finally sink in.

In the interim, here’s that message again, plainly stated:

Calling 911 is not a free mediation service for white people to get the upper hand in banal disputes. We live in an unjust, racist society. Calling police on a black person puts his or her life and liberty in danger. “Feeling” threatened doesn’t mean you are. If you do “feel” threatened, especially in broad daylight with bystanders all around you, walk away. Anything short of that and you don’t “look racist,” you are.

And here's the IG post https://www.instagram.com/p/CA0y00hFf2b/?utm_source=ig_embed&utm_campaign=loading

[SkinnyPupp]

I have to say, I'm quite proud of most of the posters on RS in this thread here, overall it seems that most people here are on the right side, and that's extremely encouraging. There are a couple pricks here, but they appear to be the minority.

Big ups to you all FeelsGoodMan
I hope more people post their support here. I know there are people lurking, you can see them right there in the "viewing this thread" list, and posting in other unrelated threads. There are hundreds of old members who never even log in anymore.

Why is it important to pitch in with a post?

The "couple of pricks" need to know they're on the wrong side, and how wrong they are. I mean I suspect there's some trolling going on too, but they need to know that "for the lulz" is not a good reason to be a dick either.

I'm not saying everyone needs to respond to them directly - quite the opposite actually. But posting more info showing why they are so wrong is important. Like posting the latest news, sharing positive changes being made. Or posting more evidence of systemic racism that people aren't even aware of (by, up until now, no fault of their own).

The very fact that Canadians can feel like they can say "this is too stressful, I'd rather not pay attention to it" is a massive privilege in itself. And BTW Canada isn't much better. Not many countries are, when it comes to this stuff.

[SkinnyPupp]

The two cops who pushed that 75 year old man have been arrested (https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/06/us/buffalo-police-officers-plead-not-guilty-old-man/index.html)

'Breonna's Law,' aimed at regulating no-knock warrants in Louisville, passes Public Safety Committee (https://www.wdrb.com/news/breonnas-law-aimed-at-regulating-no-knock-warrants-in-louisville-passes-public-safety-committee/article_4270494c-a5ee-11ea-a9c8-cb0ddf91710b.html)

They still need to make sure the cops that shot her are no longer, and can never be cops again.

Amid protests, Colorado lawmakers introduce bill to address police use of force policies (https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/politics/amid-protests-colorado-lawmakers-introduce-bill-to-address-police-use-of-force-policies)

-Requires the use of body-worn cameras for all local law enforcement agencies
-Requires the release of body camera footage from incidents to be released within 14 days
-Requires the division of criminal justice in the department of public safety to create an annual report about uses of force, stops and unannounced entries
-Requires the division of criminal justice shall maintain a statewide database with data collected in a searchable format
-Requires law enforcement agencies to fire officers who plead guilty to inappropriate uses of force and for their certification to be revoked
-Removes qualified indemnity and good faith justifications for protection from civil action
-Changes the state’s fleeing felon rules to match the U.S. Supreme Court findings

Mandatory bias training for police passes Michigan Senate (https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2020/06/mandatory-bias-training-for-police-passes-michigan-senate.html)

The legislation, Senate Bill 945, would add those elements to the Michigan Commission on Law Enforcement Standards’ certification requirements for incoming recruits. An amendment to the bill also added requirements for current law enforcement to receive continuing education annually.

San Diego police end use of carotid restraint, effective immediately (https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-06-01/san-diego-police-end-use-carotid-restraint-effective-immediately)

LA Mayor Slashes LAPD Budget As Calls To ‘Defund Police’ Slowly Pick Up Steam (https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackbrewster/2020/06/04/la-mayor-slashes-lapd-budget-as-calls-to-defund-police-slowly-pick-up-steam/#3caa721d1ba3)

Lawmakers Begin Bipartisan Push to Cut Off Police Access to Military-Style Gear (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/01/us/politics/police-military-gear.html)

New York is starting to defund their police force too. Others will follow. This should allow for a proper reset of police enforcement throughout the US. Hopefully Canada follows this lead as well.

[320icar]

Oh my fuck that was the first time I saw that video. The amount of blood that just poured out of his ears gave me full body goosebumps.

The worst part of that story is how the official report said he “tripped and fell” until the video evidence came out.

nothing has changed

[Jmac]

Oh my fuck that was the first time I saw that video. The amount of blood that just poured out of his ears gave me full body goosebumps.

The worst part of that story is how the official report said he “tripped and fell” until the video evidence came out.

nothing has changed
Plus one of the cops immediately goes to check on him and gets pulled away by another cop.

[MarkyMark]

Plus one of the cops immediately goes to check on him and gets pulled away by another cop.

I noticed that too and it really shows how even the people who might care immediately listen to the next guy and forget all about it. That's the mentality they need to break, I get that you're supposed to look out for one another but that really should be about saving each other's lives, not trying to avoid getting in shit for something dumb you did.

[underscore]

^They should make a flavor for George Floyd, call it "BLM" or something, make it heavily chocolate in flavor, I'll buy 20 pints :)

Time to go shopping, RS group buy time?

https://i.imgur.com/NYDueMa.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/kRQtmhz.jpg

[bcedhk]

https://twitter.com/KamilKaramali/status/1269322533628792833

Justin, is that you?

[320icar]

Technically that falls under freedom of speech and he shouldn’t be arrested. Though his ass should get a harsh reality check in the form of a beat down for being so obtusely insensitive on purpose

[underscore]

I'm not sure if you guys think this stuff should be in this thread or maybe in its own thread but as someone trying to get caught up on a whole pile of stuff I've been oblivious to in very little free time I appreciate when people mention specific things to watch/read. Hopefully someone else finds this helpful as well.

In the press conference someone posted a few pages back Killer Mike mentioned looking up the Cornerstone Speech. This was by Confederate Vice President Alexander H. Stephens, a few weeks before the Civil War began. There's a wikipedia article that covers it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornerstone_Speech

Or you can read the whole thing here: https://www.owleyes.org/text/the-cornerstone-speech/read/text-of-stephenss-speech

As I understand it this is the defining part of the speech:

Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests upon the great truth, that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery — subordination to the superior race — is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.

I didn't have a high opinion of anyone who displays the confederate flag to begin with, but this made it even more clear to me how horrible that is.



It was also recommended I watch the Brown Eyes/Blue Eyes racism exercise by Jane Elliott. It's a very interesting eye opener (pun intended) that everyone should see. There's a few videos of it out there, I don't know if this is the best one but it fit into the time I had.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebPoSMULI5U&t=64s

Never in my wildest dreams would I have imagined I'd spend a Saturday night watching an old episode of Oprah but at this point in 2020 nothing surprises me anymore.

[Hehe]

I hope more people post their support here. I know there are people lurking, you can see them right there in the "viewing this thread" list, and posting in other unrelated threads. There are hundreds of old members who never even log in anymore.

Why is it important to pitch in with a post?

The "couple of pricks" need to know they're on the wrong side, and how wrong they are. I mean I suspect there's some trolling going on too, but they need to know that "for the lulz" is not a good reason to be a dick either.

I'm not saying everyone needs to respond to them directly - quite the opposite actually. But posting more info showing why they are so wrong is important. Like posting the latest news, sharing positive changes being made. Or posting more evidence of systemic racism that people aren't even aware of (by, up until now, no fault of their own).

The very fact that Canadians can feel like they can say "this is too stressful, I'd rather not pay attention to it" is a massive privilege in itself. And BTW Canada isn't much better. Not many countries are, when it comes to this stuff.

You know why people aren't posting to "support" the cause? It's the same thing going on right now in the US as well.

In the later part of this thread, this has become what's going on in the US, and you can see it in the news and on social media too.

Whoever coming out with a DIFFERENT... not wrong, just DIFFERENT opinion about BLM, they pretty much get shamed to oblivion like they are the worst racist and they should be punished.

The mayor of the city of Fremont, CA got so much shit for not willing to kneel. Does that make her racist?!? Korean-American model called out YellowLivesMatter and they trashed her Twitter calling her racist and thinking only for herself... blah blah blah.

Here in this very thread, some of you taking the same stance being called "taking the right side". Who the fuck gets to decide what's RIGHT?

This is what so fucked up about social justice. We, as God gave us, are entitled to THINK differently. Just because someone thinks differently than you, and even the majority, doesn't mean this person is wrong. As a matter of fact, there were many many cases in history that these few who think DIFFERENTLY went on to define the humanity as a whole.

Take this George Floyd case... people can be totally racial neutral, but SIMPLY DIFFERENT opinion about what's going on based on their own believes and information that were presented to them. That "DIFFERENT" does not make them racists.

We can agree to disagree. But PLEASE BE PERFECTLY CLEAR, there is no right or wrong just BECAUSE WE DISAGREE. If we confine ourselves to be able to have ONLY ONE VOICE. We just became the fucking fascist.

[68style]

^
Part of your privilege is that you get to sit there and decide what you believe in or whether you support the system? Cuz the system works for you and you're not afraid of the system.

You just proved the point everyone is trying to make to you :)

Your entire problem is that you can't accept that, right now, you need to take a step back and not be equally important as another culture or ethnicity while they fight for better treatment within the system you already enjoy. Nobody is saying your life doesn't matter or that yellow lives don't matter or whatever else... they're asking for your solidarity to step back right now and help them. Do you enjoy the spotlight so much that you can't do that? Can't put yourself aside for anyone else for a bit? Be selfless? Not be so insecure that you think deferring to someone else for a bit means you take a hit somehow?

That mayor or that korean-american model didn't take shit because they're racist, they took shit because they couldn't take a knee, figuratively or literally, and not have it be about themselves for awhile and support someone else in their plight. ME ME ME. Not that we should be surprised that a model can't stand not being the centre of attention I suppose.

[MSREE]

Bahahaha.... yes... I'm sure BLM meant all lives matter. If that makes you feel better, by all means, stick your belief in that.

Again, the statement is "Black Lives Matter" NOT "ONLY BLACK LIVES MATTER".

English motherfucker, do you speak it?

Take a class. Read a book. Dare I suggest....the dictionary?

"ONLY BLACK LIVES MATTER" would mean by definition that NO OTHER (white/yellow/red/blue/purple/green) LIVES MATTER.

I personally believe you are on the wrong side because you don't even understand what Black Lives Matter means.
You've based your answers in this thread on your PERCEPTION of this saying which is COMPLETELY WRONG.
Yet when someone comes along to educate you, you refuse the information based off your inaccurate perception.

You know why people aren't posting to "support" the cause? It's the same thing going on right now in the US as well.

In the later part of this thread, this has become what's going on in the US, and you can see it in the news and on social media too.

Whoever coming out with a DIFFERENT... not wrong, just DIFFERENT opinion about BLM, they pretty much get shamed to oblivion like they are the worst racist and they should be punished.

The mayor of the city of Fremont, CA got so much shit for not willing to kneel. Does that make her racist?!? Korean-American model called out YellowLivesMatter and they trashed her Twitter calling her racist and thinking only for herself... blah blah blah.

Here in this very thread, some of you taking the same stance being called "taking the right side". Who the fuck gets to decide what's RIGHT?

This is what so fucked up about social justice. We, as God gave us, are entitled to THINK differently. Just because someone thinks differently than you, and even the majority, doesn't mean this person is wrong. As a matter of fact, there were many many cases in history that these few who think DIFFERENTLY went on to define the humanity as a whole.

Take this George Floyd case... people can be totally racial neutral, but SIMPLY DIFFERENT opinion about what's going on based on their own believes and information that were presented to them. That "DIFFERENT" does not make them racists.

We can agree to disagree. But PLEASE BE PERFECTLY CLEAR, there is no right or wrong just BECAUSE WE DISAGREE. If we confine ourselves to be able to have ONLY ONE VOICE. We just became the fucking fascist.

Actually everyone in this thread has been pretty polite to you.

If you want to bring God into this...
The 6th commandment is You shall not murder
The 8th commandment is You shall not steal

Murder is worse than stealing by the fact that the value of a life greatly outweighs the monetary value of any material product.

Money can be reprinted. Products can be remade. Buildings can be fixed.

We cannot return George Floyd to his family.
We cannot return any of the lives lost to police brutality.
What we can do is speak out so that cops are immediately charged and convicted when they kill unnecessarily.

Insurance protects businesses affected by riots.
Who is protecting black people from police?


Factually? You're pretty wrong.
Morally? You're even more wrong.

I make no apologies for saying so.
I think you're kind of a dick for trying to steer the attention away from the current situation but I don't think that I'm "shaming you into oblivion".
You can think whatever you want! We're not saying you can't.
But you entered this thread spouting off about people who are standing for BLM not creating a space for dialogue and you received it.
The funny thing about dialogue is that it has to go both ways.

Anyways, peace and love to you dude.

[StylinRed]

Plus one of the cops immediately goes to check on him and gets pulled away by another cop.

I don't know that he did try to help him immediately

if you watch again, the cop behind him gives him a push down almost, and it looks like the cop thought it was a directive to check on the old guy, then he gets a push again, and he's like oh! and keeps on movin on

[SkinnyPupp]

Whoever coming out with a DIFFERENT... not wrong, just DIFFERENT opinion about BLM, they pretty much get shamed to oblivion like they are the worst racist and they should be punished.

I'm not going to judge you for being racist.

You know why? Because I'm racist too.

The question is, what do we do to counter our racism? How do we act? What do we say?

As I said a few pages back, the system on which USA and Canada are built (and the British Empire they had roots in) has racism built into it intrinsically. 400 years ago it allowed slavery (up until quite recently in the US). 60 years ago, it allowed total segregations. Today it allows police and others to treat people differently.

Everyone who grows up in these systems in a position of privilege gets it built into them from an early age. They may not realize it, which is what the point was in the post I quoted a while back, but it's there. Go watch that Oprah clip for a related example. It could be minor little uses of white privilege, or it could be overt racism. Not everyone is exposed to it to the same degree. My actions and words may not always have the same levels of damage being done as someone else's, but it's still racism.

Once you realize that there's really no such thing is "I am 100% not racist" I think it's a pretty important step to take to take.

Because the goal is no longer trying to "prove" you're "not a racist" but to think to yourself, is what I am doing racist in some way? Is what I am saying racist? If you think back to all the 'borderline' things you might have done or said, and wish you could have taken it back... Well back then, you didn't think of it. Today, you would think twice before doing it.

Congrats, you acted against your racism. You're a better person. And the world is a tiny tiny bit better now.

Your situation will be different from mine. Some people have more privilege than others. I grew up poor, with very bad parenting (surprise right? lol). I have ADHD and OCD and GAD. I am not as privileged as some other white guy with kind, smart, rich parents and properly balanced brain chemistry. But I am still white. I don't feel guilty for it of course, but I still acknowledge that it gives me privilege. Even with all the disadvantages I have in life.

Just think about it... Acknowledge the privilege, act accordingly. Whether it's white privilege, wealthy privilege, class privilege, etc.

I don't understand why there's so much resistance to wanting to bring other people up.. That's the part I don't really get.

Hope this helps someone

[westopher]

Just because someone thinks differently than you, and even the majority, doesn't mean this person is wrong.

This is what's so annoying these days. People think they "can't be wrong"
Guess what, some of the things you believe, some of the things I believe, are 100% fucking wrong. It's your job to find out what those things are, and learn from them. I've been wrong throughout my life on racism, and what it entails, and how bad it is, and how prevalent it is, etc, and knowing that I was wrong is going to help me understand it better, to learn from those things, and hopefully be a small part of making things better.

Guess how many of us support the hong kong protests in here, I'd wager anyone who supports the BLM movements do. Guess what we don't do? Go to the HK protests and be like "HEY QUIT PROTESTING HERE WHAT ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE!"
Your attempts to take away the voice for the BLM movement in the conversation to try and put your own agenda into it is the EXACT point that the BLM movements are trying to make. This is about THEIR PROBLEMS AND THEIR INJUSTICES SO STOP TRYING TO ACT LIKE YOURS ARE MORE IMPORTANT.

[SkinnyPupp]

Even our fucking maps were racist EleGiggle

https://twitter.com/NinjaDuce/status/1269072819947663360

Play around with this (https://thetruesize.com/), it's fun

[Hehe]

We as a society are bound by laws that we elect representatives to create/abolish them.

That's what decides right or wrong. Everything else is just OPINIONS.

When one wants to FORCE their OPINION on someone else, that's WRONG, because our charters of rights forbid that.

Racial or any sort of discrimination is WRONG. Again, our charters of rights forbid that. Everyone is equal.

Hurting someone or using excessive force, that's WRONG with laws forbidding that.

Looting and rioting, breaking havoc, and destroying/stealing things... that is WRONG and there are laws associated with that.

We discussing whether we support one side or the other is NOT WRONG because it is OUR FREEDOM TO EXPRESS.

Talking about who's right or wrong here is like I like Honda and you like Toyota. Who are you to tell me that I'm wrong and Toyota is in fact better? Those are NOTHING BUT OPINIONS. And if you want to tell people that if you don't like Toyota, you are in the wrong side of things, that's FORCING your opinion on others. That's WRONG.

You can choose to NOT like me (or about the shit I say) or agree with me/shit I say. That's your opinion. You are welcome to have that. The same that I can choose to not agree with shit you say because that's my opinion.

[MG1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_map_projections


I guess it depends is you are a mariner or explorer or.............. you get the idea. I like the orange peel maps.

Shots from space? Yeah, flat earth people be like..............

/nuff said


Just for shits and giggles........

https://www.space.com/40473-flat-earthers-explain-pac-man-effect.html

[Hehe]

Freedom is NOT that you can do whatever you want, it's that you don't have to do whatever you don't want.

We'd just agree to disagree. I won't reply more to this thread as we clearly have differences and I think I've made my point clear. What I or any of here think is not WRONG. I know we are not breaking any laws by expressing our opinion. I think that's what's important that we are still free to say pretty much any shit we want.

/out

[bcedhk]

https://twitter.com/kimmythepooh/status/1269428961391652864

Trending on Twitter this morning.

[MG1]

Kimmy The Pooh...............

there must be something in that name that's racist.


If you look hard enough, you can find any reason to paint someone as "racist." Good thing people already know I'm racist. Beat ya all to it, Gulolow

god bless

[mikemhg]

Dang, did he just compare Honda to Toyota as a basis of opinion versus right and wrong in relation to basic human rights? :lol

You're digging yourself a deeper hole here, bud.

So you're saying one's opinion supersedes actual facts?

Your argument would then mean someone who believes the Earth is flat, is just as right as someone that doesn't. That is preposterous. There are definitive rights and wrongs.

I can't imagine what a society would look like being run on such a pretense as the one you're parroting here.

[SpeedStars]

https://youtu.be/ZJHLiGoPumM

On the topic of "are you racist?"

[whitev70r]

^ it's a bit long but the message is true. There are Chinese on Chinese racism. Black on black racism. Indigenous on indigenous racism. Etc.

Not sure how this adds or detracts from the topic at hand but it is true. Not an opinion ... truth.

[twitchyzero]

going forward i hope there's less N words in my favourite music genre

[bcedhk]

going forward i hope there's less N words in my favourite music genre

That's like 50% of the lyrics in mumble/mainstream rap though.

[SkinnyPupp]

https://i.imgur.com/VOEN2we.png

Mitt Romney protesting

https://twitter.com/jelani9/status/1269768412257030145

People will be cynical about this too, but it has to be a good thing for a former GOP candidate to be out there. Photo op? For what, is he running? Maybe? Also he's called out Trump for his racist shit before, and has a black grandchild apparently (how's that for motivation)

Also it shows that we can disagree on many things, but still try to be good.

[Manic!]

going forward i hope there's less N words in my favourite music genre

Going forward I hope cops stop killing unarmed people. But hey we all have our priorities.

[twitchyzero]

y not both :confused:
https://theundefeated.com/features/if-you-truly-knew-what-the-n-word-meant-to-our-ancestors-youd-never-use-it/

[SkinnyPupp]

Some info on why those Buffalo cops walked out on their positions... It wasn't to support potential manslaughter as their union said...

https://twitter.com/ciphergoth/status/1269730724740861952

[Manic!]

y not both :confused:
https://theundefeated.com/features/if-you-truly-knew-what-the-n-word-meant-to-our-ancestors-youd-never-use-it/

I think one is slightly more important than the other. Dont you agree?

[MSREE]

Wild that people even think this way and dedicate time to respond in this manner.
Fuck you Dave :)

[SkinnyPupp]

Fuck Bezos though, for plenty of other reasons

[eclipseman]

Anyone notice that lots of businesses are getting heat for racism in the past as well? Specifically in Vancouver.

Belgard Kitchen (they deleted their instagram post which was incredibly long) (https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/comments/gvmv2b/belgard_kitchen_on_instagram_lots_of_drama_in_the/)
The Federal Store (https://www.instagram.com/p/CA79pFUh-7l/)
Vancouver Candle Company (https://www.instagram.com/p/CBH1AzqBmE3/)

It's all coming out now.

[SkinnyPupp]

New Bill Would Abolish Qualified Immunity, Make It Easier To Sue Cops Who Violate Civil Rights (https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicksibilla/2020/06/03/new-bill-would-abolish-qualified-immunity-make-it-easier-to-sue-cops-who-violate-civil-rights/)

A legal rule known as “qualified immunity” often shields police officers and other government officials from being sued by victims and their families, even if the officers violated their civil rights. And since prosecutors are loath to file criminal charges against government agents, suing rogue officers for damages in civil court is often the only recourse available to victims of government abuse.

But late Sunday night, Congressman Justin Amash (L-MI) revealed that he will introduce the End Qualified Immunity Act, which would eliminate a “permanent procedural roadblock for plaintiffs” that thwarts them from “obtaining damages for having their rights violated.”

[SkinnyPupp]

Here's a video I just came across that talks about what I posted on the last page. Racism is built into our world, and we all have it ingrained into us. He talks about an example where he, as a black man, had racist thoughts cross his mind about another black man.

He calls it "every day racism"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZUvjAJGFkM

[pastarocket]

I am interested to read people's comments on this thread about the PM's proposal to all premiers about all local police departments requiring officers wear a body camera. I'm sure Trudeau is going to push for body cams for all RCMP constables.

What are your thoughts?

https://www.citynews1130.com/2020/06/08/trudeau-police-body-cameras/

[quasi]

I am interested to read people's comments on this thread about the PM's proposal to all premiers about all local police departments requiring officers wear a body camera. I'm sure Trudeau is going to push for body cams for all RCMP constables.

What are your thoughts?

https://www.citynews1130.com/2020/06/08/trudeau-police-body-cameras/

100% for it, every police officer should be wearing them and they should be on all the time when they are on the clock. It protects the citizens and it protects the officers, I can't think of a good reason not to have them.

[Ferra]

Here's a video I just came across that talks about what I posted on the last page. Racism is built into our world, and we all have it ingrained into us. He talks about an example where he, as a black man, had racist thoughts cross his mind about another black man.

He calls it "every day racism"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZUvjAJGFkM
Does preference over lighter skin tone really have to do with racism tho?
e.g. Asian cultures have had a preference for lighter skin tone hundreds of years before they knew white and black people even exist...

how do u draw the line between color preference and racial prejudice...

[twitchyzero]

what if i only drive domestics, fap to tentacle porn, dislike african cuisine

do I deserve to have my business and livelihood destroyed or shamed?

[320icar]

what if i only drive domestics, fap to tentacle porn, dislike african cuisine


If you choose to drive domestics, all the power to you and that’s your right. But when you start feeling other people equal right to only drive Japanese cars someone infringes on your rights and you start arresting people just for driving Japanese cars, that’s the problem.

Reminds me of the gay marriage thing. Gays getting married effects peoples lives literally zero percent. But they felt that “the right for gays to get married strips me the right of my hetero marriage” or some shit.

No ones rights are above someone elses

[GS8]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/02/george-floyd-protests-people-killed

This is what happens during chaos. I saw the David Dorn video (I shouldn't have). Thankfully his killer was arrested yesterday.



The sister of the Davenport victim. Raw emotion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_IjvBQwIAQ

[GLOW]

100% for it, every police officer should be wearing them and they should be on all the time when they are on the clock. It protects the citizens and it protects the officers, I can't think of a good reason not to have them.

i agree, people in general and they did a study on a pilot of the body cam i think in the US, people generally tend to behave better when being filmed.

just saw a dave chapelle thing on body cams though which was interesting, he said what good is the video evidence if no one cares to do anything about it. while it's good to have evidence, it's also up to courts to do something with it.

[SkinnyPupp]

Does preference over lighter skin tone really have to do with racism tho?
e.g. Asian cultures have had a preference for lighter skin tone hundreds of years before they knew white and black people even exist...

how do u draw the line between color preference and racial prejudice...
Not that I think you're lying, but I'd have to see a source for that before believing it blindly. Because most of the "white" desire in some Asian cultures are absolutely due to race.

Most recently, double eyelid surgery didn't exist at all, until American doctors started doing it to Korean prostitutes to make them look more western for soldiers during the war. It stuck around and is now the most popular plastic surgery in Korea.

And now there is an awareness campaign about whitening products in India

Just think how the European empires touched every corner of the globe over the last few hundred years, and the kind of influence they had when they did. It's not a small thing.

[SkinnyPupp]

100% for it, every police officer should be wearing them and they should be on all the time when they are on the clock. It protects the citizens and it protects the officers, I can't think of a good reason not to have them.
Not only that, they should be connected to the internet at all times (will be easy with 5G), and as soon as they go down, that officer returns to the station to get it working again.

Officer testimony can not be used in court unless it is coming from their body cam.

I wonder if there's a way to use Google's face blur technology so every cop's camera can be streamed... This would make them absolutely transparent and accountable. :considered:

[twitchyzero]

If you choose to drive domestics, all the power to you and that’s your right. But when you start feeling other people equal right to only drive Japanese cars someone infringes on your rights and you start arresting people just for driving Japanese cars, that’s the problem.



and if my car club is for daewoos and hyundais and I get a complaint i'm discriminating non-korean makes?

the issue with 'racism is ingrained': it becomes a witch hunt for those simply having certain tastes/preferences

[westopher]

Not only that, they should be connected to the internet at all times (will be easy with 5G)
Cant do 5g we don't want another covid outbreak.:pokerface:

[SkinnyPupp]

Read on history:

https://twitter.com/michaelharriot/status/1270076281040797699

Unrolled here (https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1270076281040797699.html)

[dbaz]

whitewashed. i find that term insulting. rabble rabble rabble.

oh wait im white, apparently white people cant receive prejudice.

[T4RAWR]

I am interested to read people's comments on this thread about the PM's proposal to all premiers about all local police departments requiring officers wear a body camera. I'm sure Trudeau is going to push for body cams for all RCMP constables.

What are your thoughts?

https://www.citynews1130.com/2020/06/08/trudeau-police-body-cameras/

You'll find most cops want them or have been asking for them for a while now...

Like quasi said it protects people both ways.

Changes have to be made though to the reasonable expectation of privacy by the public.

:pokerface:

[hchang]

Can somebody explain to me how Minneapolis disbanding their police department will work?

Like every other city on planet Earth there will be crime and there will be a need for a police department.

What are they going to replace the police department with?

County Sheriffs?
State Troopers?

[mikemhg]

They're discussing the idea of changing the structure of the force.

By disbanding that means they will be able to collapse the police unions that are holding back progress and change being initiated by elected officials. The Camden, NJ force did this recently, and had their officers re-apply for employment.

Another change they're looking to implement is beginning to silo emergency responses into different categories, instead of having police officers be the be-all end-all. For example, a mental health crisis? Send a social worker, rather than an officer with a gun, etc.

[cafe22]

mikeemhg summed it up pretty good. Today's podcast from NY Times also dived into this topic:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/09/podcasts/the-daily/defunding-the-police-black-lives-matter-protests.html

[Manic!]

I wonder how many people are going to lose their jobs for posting racist sh/t online.
I removed the name because local.

hraccess@viha.ca
Dear HR Department at Vancouver Island Health Authority,
I was appalled to discover that one of your employees, ************, is making violently racist comments on social media. ********* has listed you as an employer and spoken of her work publicly, which is why I reached out to inform you immediately. I have attached screenshots of a selection of ******** comments, which were posted publicly on the same account where she has discussed her employment at VIHA.
Alysha's comments make me deeply concerned for the safety and comfort of racialized staff and patients in your organization. I know that statements such as those made by ******** directly contradict the Vision, Purpose, and Values of VIHA, which is why I feel confident that you will not wish to associate your organization with anyone who would wish harm and violence on people of colour.
Please let me know what actions will be taken regarding this employee, and thank you for reading my e-mail.
Sincerely,Will Williams.
C.E.O. Of Black Folk productions.

[whitev70r]

^ I struggle with this kind of quick vigilante justice. This is reminiscent of the #MeToo movement where people are charged, indicted, and sentenced on IG or twitter.

Companies and organizations are making statements in support because it is good marketing. People are being called out if they speak up, people are being called out if they don't. For example, Ellen was called out for this ... really? Like OK, I must be tone deaf too because I think her original tweet was pretty clear and supportive.

According to screenshots that were taken of the now-deleted tweet, Degeneres wrote, "Like so many of you, I am angry and I am sad. People of color in this country have faced injustice for far too long. For things to change, things must change. We must commit ourselves to this change with conviction and love."

While the message clearly talked about unity, a lot of people took notice of how Degeneres played safe and generalised the movement by mentioned 'People of Colour'. The movement at present talks about the discrimination that Blacks face in America on a daily basis and many felt her generalising the movement did not help.

https://twitter.com/Phases4Mae/status/1266940246945525761

[320icar]

I wonder how many people are going to lose their jobs for posting racist sh/t online.
I removed the name because local.

The court of public opinion is a fucked up one. I don’t usually agree with “social justice” like this unless it directly effects the job being done.

That woman in the states who worked at the courthouse who refused to process gay marriage certificates even though it was federally legal deserved to be fired (yet she was treated like a hero). But if she hated gays and kept her opinion at home and still did her job, then whatever. Not saying she’s a good person obviously but she has the right to like or hate anything she wants as long as it doesn’t take away the rights of someone else (in this example gay marriage)

[Manic!]

^ I struggle with this kind of quick vigilante justice. This is reminiscent of the #MeToo movement where people are charged, indicted, and sentenced on IG or twitter.

For example, Ellen was called out for this ... really?

According to screenshots that were taken of the now-deleted tweet, Degeneres wrote, "Like so many of you, I am angry and I am sad. People of color in this country have faced injustice for far too long. For things to change, things must change. We must commit ourselves to this change with conviction and love."

While the message clearly talked about unity, a lot of people took notice of how Degeneres played safe and generalised the movement by mentioned 'People of Colour'. The movement at present talks about the discrimination that Blacks face in America on a daily basis and many felt her generalising the movement did not help.

She said she wouldn't take her foot off a n*****s head either and the only people of color technically are white.

[320icar]

She said she wouldn't take her foot off a n*****s head either and the only people of color technically are white.

Jesus Christ....

[Manic!]

The same chick I posted about before. Her sister defended her and rumor is got fired from VIHA. (Vancouver Island health authority)

https://photos.smugmug.com/Blm/i-xHDPJBW/0/abc9b8a1/XL/trash-XL.jpg

[Jmac]

https://twitter.com/vanislandhealth/status/1270488292216242176

If you look online, the location is all over the map. I’m sure it happened somewhere.

[Manic!]

https://twitter.com/vanislandhealth/status/1270488292216242176

If you look online, the location is all over the map. I’m sure it happened somewhere.

People who claim they know her, say she lives in Nanaimo. She has also posted in some Nanaimo groups before.

She made the news.
https://www.victoriabuzz.com/2020/06/woman-posting-racial-slurs-threats-online-is-not-a-vancouver-island-health-employee-viha/

[Jmac]

People who claim they know her, say she lives in Nanaimo. She has also posted in some Nanaimo groups before.

She made the news.
https://www.victoriabuzz.com/2020/06/woman-posting-racial-slurs-threats-online-is-not-a-vancouver-island-health-employee-viha/
Looks like Victoria Buzz interviewed her. Article from today. She hasn’t worked for Island Health since 2015 according to the article.

https://www.victoriabuzz.com/2020/06/i-feel-very-remorseful-nanaimo-woman-apologizes-after-racial-slurs-go-viral/?utm_source=spotim&utm_medium=spotim_recirculation&spotim_referrer=recirculation

[whitev70r]

Look, people do and say dumb shit outside work hours but companies need to be careful of labour laws, remember?

Hydro One rehires man fired after FHRITP incident
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/hydro-one-rehires-man-fired-after-fhritp-incident-1.3300059

Hydro One says it has rehired an employee it fired for a comment he made in support of a friend who yelled obscenities at a female reporter during a live television interview.

Daffyd Roderick, Hydro One's director of corporate affairs, released a statement on Monday confirming Shawn Simoes has been rehired.

[SkinnyPupp]

https://twitter.com/nascar/status/1270819350644211719

[Manic!]

https://i.redd.it/t0tryg21m5451.jpg

[320icar]

.... is that a joke or is he being serious

[Manic!]

.... is that a joke or is he being serious

He is serious. https://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/nmah_515980

http://ids.si.edu/ids/deliveryService?id=NMAH-ET2012-13477&max=1000

But it's also a joke.

[320icar]

Bahahahaha ok sorry I get it now. I thought he was trying to say how the white flag is somehow racist

[ImportPsycho]

Chilliwack School District apologizes for middle school previously engaged in 'slave day' (https://www.citynews1130.com/2020/06/10/chilliwack-school-district-apologizes-slave-day/)

who the hell thought this was good idea? lol oh boy...only in Chilliwack...

[StylinRed]

Chilliwack School District apologizes for middle school previously engaged in 'slave day' (https://www.citynews1130.com/2020/06/10/chilliwack-school-district-apologizes-slave-day/)

who the hell thought this was good idea? lol oh boy...only in Chilliwack...

a lot of schools used to do that, private schools too (even in HK)

like auctioning a date/slave for a day, teachers would participate too (being auctioned off)

ppl were less touchy about every little thing and didn't read into things other than what meets the eye, world has changed a great deal since

[whitev70r]

Chilliwack School District apologizes for middle school previously engaged in 'slave day' (https://www.citynews1130.com/2020/06/10/chilliwack-school-district-apologizes-slave-day/)

who the hell thought this was good idea? lol oh boy...only in Chilliwack...


you must be real young, we did it for fundraisers all the time in my day. This happened 10 years ago. C'mon ... aren't there bigger battles to be fought on this issue?

From article,
CHILLIWACK (NEWS 1130) — The Chilliwack School District has apologized after an Instagram post brought to light something known as “slave day” that took place at a local middle school more than a decade ago.

[mikemhg]

https://twitter.com/nascar/status/1270819350644211719

These changes just seem so hallow to me. Great, they're banning the confederate flag... in 2020.

What does that change? That doesn't change the racist past or the fans that attend Nascar races. How about investing in driving schools for kids and kit car teams for minorities, to get a more diverse of racers in the mix? To this day, only 7 black Nascar drivers have ever started a race.

There's a great documentary on Netflix about one of the few black Nascar drivers (he didn't last long there):

Uppity: The Willy Ribbs Story
https://www.netflix.com/ca/title/81232163#:~:text=Uppity%3A%20The%20Willy%20T,Ribbs %20Story&text=This%20documentary%20profiles%20a%20defiant,r ace%20in%20the%20Indy%20500.

I recommend giving it a watch.

So yes, that's nice they're banning a silly flag, but these weak corporate reactions to this whole issue are really starting to seem quite empty and virtue signaling.

[Jmac]

It’s the classic under-reaction/non-reaction for decades and then sudden change of heart when shit hits the fan.

[6793026]

It’s the classic under-reaction/non-reaction for decades and then sudden change of heart when shit hits the fan.

Exactly...

it's not about removing people's names, statues right now, it's about proper education. Can't erase history, we can accept, understand and teach younger generations.

Falk, someone's dad was a slave owner.... How about someone's grandpa was a German Nazi back then, or husband's great grandpa took advantage of aboriginals, some white owner imposed chinese residential school.... the list goes on forever....

Should we now remove Mount Rushmore National Memorial and take off their faces because of some type of slavery ... ghezzzzz

[vitaminG]

These changes just seem so hallow to me. Great, they're banning the confederate flag... in 2020.

What does that change? That doesn't change the racist past or the fans that attend Nascar races. How about investing in driving schools for kids and kit car teams for minorities, to get a more diverse of racers in the mix? To this day, only 7 black Nascar drivers have ever started a race.

There's a great documentary on Netflix about one of the few black Nascar drivers (he didn't last long there):

Uppity: The Willy Ribbs Story
https://www.netflix.com/ca/title/81232163#:~:text=Uppity%3A%20The%20Willy%20T,Ribbs %20Story&text=This%20documentary%20profiles%20a%20defiant,r ace%20in%20the%20Indy%20500.

I recommend giving it a watch.

So yes, that's nice they're banning a silly flag, but these weak corporate reactions to this whole issue are really starting to seem quite empty and virtue signaling.

Nascar had had a drive for diversity program for many years to attract minorities and females. One of their half Asian drivers who was a beneficiary of that program recently was so suspended indefinitely for saying the n-word live in a video game

[westopher]

The thing about statues is, they should be reserved for iconic people from history that deserve to be celebrated. Gretzky, Martin Luther King, Stephen Hawking, etc. It shouldn’t just be history, it should be the history we are proud of. If we aren’t proud of it, yes we should learn about it in school, learn about why it was wrong, etc. No one learns how slavery was wrong from having the statue of a slave owner in the middle of the city.

[MG1]

Should we now remove Mount Rushmore National Memorial and take off their faces because of some type of slavery ... ghezzzzz

Don’t give Dotard any ideas. He so wants to to have his face carved on Mt. Rushmore.

[MG1]

Statues like that of Terry Fox makes most sense to me. I’m not a fan of sports heroes, unless they truly made a difference in everybody’s life.

Bethune, Currie, Marconi, etc. Problem is, these people might have something about them that rubs someone the wrong way.

[SkinnyPupp]

These changes just seem so hallow to me. Great, they're banning the confederate flag... in 2020.

What does that change? That doesn't change the racist past or the fans that attend Nascar races. How about investing in driving schools for kids and kit car teams for minorities, to get a more diverse of racers in the mix? To this day, only 7 black Nascar drivers have ever started a race.

There's a great documentary on Netflix about one of the few black Nascar drivers (he didn't last long there):

Uppity: The Willy Ribbs Story
https://www.netflix.com/ca/title/81232163#:~:text=Uppity%3A%20The%20Willy%20T,Ribbs %20Story&text=This%20documentary%20profiles%20a%20defiant,r ace%20in%20the%20Indy%20500.

I recommend giving it a watch.

So yes, that's nice they're banning a silly flag, but these weak corporate reactions to this whole issue are really starting to seem quite empty and virtue signaling.
I agree, it's a tiny little thing, but it's something people have been trying to get them to do for decades.

Now they did it. Same as the statues.. Tear those fuckers down! Teach about them in history and on TV, but don't celebrate them with statues. We're talking about actual slavers here - people who FOUGHT to be able to own human beings. Not even people who "did good but actually owned slaves at one point". Actual slavers.. Fuck that!

I posted that because it's showing some positive change due to the movement. They tried to get them to do it when BLM first started, but they didn't.

It's evidence that this time, the movement appears to be having some effect. If this movement is going to actually make significant changes to culture, the small ones need to take place first. You can't get to step 10 of your 10 step program without going through steps 1-2-3 first.

Same thing with the Roger Goodell statement. Compare his words today to what he was saying and doing when Kaepernick started kneeling. I actually found out that he had a conference call with all NFL employees (not just the players) and everyone from their media, to TV hosts, to stats people got to speak to him directly about it. It was said to be very emotional... And he followed up with that statement, before even talking to the owners (some of whom, as you can expect, were caught off guard and pissed off)

These little changes have to happen before the big changes take place. The key is to keep the pressure on and go through all of it. The people resisting these changes are only going to give in a tiny bit at a time. They'll give you the flag, they'll remove statues, they'll rename streets. They'll do as little as possible, but people have to keep the pressure on to get the bigger changes to happen.

This tweet says it better than I could

https://twitter.com/queamell/status/1270383441440313349

[SkinnyPupp]

Capitol Hill in Seattle is currently occupied (https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/welcome-to-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone-where-seattle-protesters-gather-without-police/), with no police in sight. Some of the occupiers have guns. It appears to be peaceful, with no looting or rioting, but a lot of statements in chalk and graffiti

Interesting to see what happens from here. Trump already threatened them with military action, but Seattle isn't budging. It's peaceful, but it's beyond a protest. They actually shut down a major part of the city.

My question is: Will other cities start doing this now? If every major city has a large occupation like this, that is quite an advancement from marching protests. What happens in the cities with more violent cops, like NYC?

[MG1]

Some people vandalized the statue of Captain George Vancouver. Wow. Was he somehow racist, too? I bet he was. OR.......... he represents the white man - England or one of them Euro countries.

We should all give up technology and go back to living in huts and living off the land. We should go back to the times before the white man came. Hell, why not just burn all the books. First Nations people did not have written language, so history was told through stories. Let's go one step further and blow up the whole planet. Start all over.

Funny thing is, it'll still end up the same way. WHY? Because there'd be no history to learn from. We burned all the fucking books!

[SkinnyPupp]

Nobody's looking to wipe away the history of colonialism. Without it, we wouldn't have a great country like Canada right? Hong Kong has an atrocious history of how it was created. Nonetheless, it ended up being a great home for many until 1997. Look at all the amazing countries in the Caribbean. That all came out of colonialism and slavery though. South America - same. Singapore, India, etc. All these countries that people call home.

So history obviously NEEDS to be taught (probably in a less biased way. I'm sure we all remember lessons on Europeans "discovering" the "New World". )

I think it's bad to glorify colonialism and slavery though. Get rid of Captain George and replace him with someone who affected positivity without the goal of conquering land and displacing people.

[MG1]

The point I was getting at............

Wiping out any history deprives everybody of the lessons we need to learn. It's good that dialog has started to address the issue, but at the same time, it's bringing out all the nut jobs.

Progress.......... we need positive progress. Build, not destroy.


I was going to say put aside differences, but that's what makes us who we are. Anyway, I'm getting a headache, lol.


EDIT: one of the reasons I love watching Star Trek -- There's still hope for mankind.............

Wait, go where no man has gone before -- glad they changed it to where no one has gone before. Still nice uniforms for the women. Yes, I'm a pig. Aren't all men?

[SkinnyPupp]

The point I was getting at............

Wiping out any history deprives everybody of the lessons we need to learn. It's good that dialog has started to address the issue, but at the same time, it's bringing out all the nut jobs.
Nobody is wiping out history, they're wiping out the glorification of colonialism and slavery

[MG1]

I won't admit, then, that I'm a bit of an Empire Loyalist, hee hee.......

[SkinnyPupp]

https://twitter.com/cnnbrk/status/1271231317578002432

They still need to charge those three cops who killed her.

[CivicBlues]

Capitol Hill in Seattle is currently occupied (https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/welcome-to-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone-where-seattle-protesters-gather-without-police/), with no police in sight. Some of the occupiers have guns. It appears to be peaceful, with no looting or rioting, but a lot of statements in chalk and graffiti

Interesting to see what happens from here. Trump already threatened them with military action, but Seattle isn't budging. It's peaceful, but it's beyond a protest. They actually shut down a major part of the city.

My question is: Will other cities start doing this now? If every major city has a large occupation like this, that is quite an advancement from marching protests. What happens in the cities with more violent cops, like NYC?

Sounds like they're trying to start their own Paris Commune albeit much smaller scale. And we all know how that ended....

Well, maybe not all of us, but here's a primer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Commune

[mikemhg]

https://twitter.com/cnnbrk/status/1271231317578002432

They still need to charge those three cops who killed her.

This is big, Louisville carries population of about 23% blacks, yet 80% of the no-knock search warrants were made on black households, which is fucking insane.

If you've ever watched a video on how these no-knock search warrants are made, you'd be shocked at how cruel, and frankly jarring it is to watch.

More often then not, nothing is ever found, yet the cops will confiscate money, leaving the owner of the house having to pay for all the damage made to doors, windows, etc.

It's unconstitutional, and should be rolled back in every state/county.

[GGnoRE]

This is a powerful essay penned anonymously by a UC Berkeley professor arguing against the current narratives of racial injustice underpinning the BLM movement. I am not denying that racism (or white-supremacy) exists and as a person of color, I have personally experienced blatant racism in Canada (from both whites and blacks). With that said, this professor raises a lot of critical facts that I was not aware of which made me think... for many of us who are vehemently supporting the BLM movement, how many of us have actually investigated this topic thoroughly, actively seeking for arguments from both sides? If you think you have, try refuting some of the questions raised in this prof's essay (in bold). In the current climate that we're in, its either you hop-on full onboard (easy to do), or you better keep your mouth shut as there is very little room for debating. Again, I don't agree with everything on that's written in this essay, but I certainly don't have answers to most of his arguments either.

UC Berkeley History Professor's Open Letter Against BLM, Police Brutality and Cultural Orthodoxy


Dear profs X, Y, Z

I am one of your colleagues at the University of California, Berkeley. I have met you both personally but do not know you closely, and am contacting you anonymously, with apologies. I am worried that writing this email publicly might lead to me losing my job, and likely all future jobs in my field.

In your recent departmental emails you mentioned our pledge to diversity, but I am increasingly alarmed by the absence of diversity of opinion on the topic of the recent protests and our community response to them.

In the extended links and resources you provided, I could not find a single instance of substantial counter-argument or alternative narrative to explain the under-representation of black individuals in academia or their over-representation in the criminal justice system. The explanation provided in your documentation, to the near exclusion of all others, is univariate: the problems of the black community are caused by whites, or, when whites are not physically present, by the infiltration of white supremacy and white systemic racism into American brains, souls, and institutions.

Many cogent objections to this thesis have been raised by sober voices, including from within the black community itself, such as Thomas Sowell and Wilfred Reilly. These people are not racists or 'Uncle Toms'. They are intelligent scholars who reject a narrative that strips black people of agency and systematically externalizes the problems of the black community onto outsiders. Their view is entirely absent from the departmental and UCB-wide communiques.

The claim that the difficulties that the black community faces are entirely causally explained by exogenous factors in the form of white systemic racism, white supremacy, and other forms of white discrimination remains a problematic hypothesis that should be vigorously challenged by historians. Instead, it is being treated as an axiomatic and actionable truth without serious consideration of its profound flaws, or its worrying implication of total black impotence. This hypothesis is transforming our institution and our culture, without any space for dissent outside of a tightly policed, narrow discourse.

A counternarrative exists. If you have time, please consider examining some of the documents I attach at the end of this email. Overwhelmingly, the reasoning provided by BLM and allies is either primarily anecdotal (as in the case with the bulk of Ta-Nehisi Coates' undeniably moving article) or it is transparently motivated. As an example of the latter problem, consider the proportion of black incarcerated Americans. This proportion is often used to characterize the criminal justice system as anti-black. However, if we use the precise same methodology, we would have to conclude that the criminal justice system is even more anti-male than it is anti-black.

Would we characterize criminal justice as a systemically misandrist conspiracy against innocent American men? I hope you see that this type of reasoning is flawed, and requires a significant suspension of our rational faculties. Black people are not incarcerated at higher rates than their involvement in violent crime would predict. This fact has been demonstrated multiple times across multiple jurisdictions in multiple countries.

And yet, I see my department uncritically reproducing a narrative that diminishes black agency in favor of a white-centric explanation that appeals to the department's apparent desire to shoulder the 'white man's burden' and to promote a narrative of white guilt.

If we claim that the criminal justice system is white-supremacist, why is it that Asian Americans, Indian Americans, and Nigerian Americans are incarcerated at vastly lower rates than white Americans? This is a funny sort of white supremacy. Even Jewish Americans are incarcerated less than gentile whites. I think it's fair to say that your average white supremacist disapproves of Jews. And yet, these alleged white supremacists incarcerate gentiles at vastly higher rates than Jews. None of this is addressed in your literature. None of this is explained, beyond hand-waving and ad hominems. "Those are racist dogwhistles". "The model minority myth is white supremacist". "Only fascists talk about black-on-black crime", ad nauseam.

These types of statements do not amount to counterarguments: they are simply arbitrary offensive classifications, intended to silence and oppress discourse. Any serious historian will recognize these for the silencing orthodoxy tactics they are, common to suppressive regimes, doctrines, and religions throughout time and space. They are intended to crush real diversity and permanently exile the culture of robust criticism from our department.

Increasingly, we are being called upon to comply and subscribe to BLM's problematic view of history, and the department is being presented as unified on the matter. In particular, ethnic minorities are being aggressively marshaled into a single position. Any apparent unity is surely a function of the fact that dissent could almost certainly lead to expulsion or cancellation for those of us in a precarious position, which is no small number.

I personally don't dare speak out against the BLM narrative, and with this barrage of alleged unity being mass-produced by the administration, tenured professoriat, the UC administration, corporate America, and the media, the punishment for dissent is a clear danger at a time of widespread economic vulnerability. I am certain that if my name were attached to this email, I would lose my job and all future jobs, even though I believe in and can justify every word I type.

The vast majority of violence visited on the black community is committed by black people. There are virtually no marches for these invisible victims, no public silences, no heartfelt letters from the UC regents, deans, and departmental heads. The message is clear: Black lives only matter when whites take them. Black violence is expected and insoluble, while white violence requires explanation and demands solution. Please look into your hearts and see how monstrously bigoted this formulation truly is.

No discussion is permitted for nonblack victims of black violence, who proportionally outnumber black victims of nonblack violence. This is especially bitter in the Bay Area, where Asian victimization by black assailants has reached epidemic proportions, to the point that the SF police chief has advised Asians to stop hanging good-luck charms on their doors, as this attracts the attention of (overwhelmingly black) home invaders. Home invaders like George Floyd. For this actual, lived, physically experienced reality of violence in the USA, there are no marches, no tearful emails from departmental heads, no support from McDonald's and Wal-Mart. For the History department, our silence is not a mere abrogation of our duty to shed light on the truth: it is a rejection of it.

The claim that black intraracial violence is the product of redlining, slavery, and other injustices is a largely historical claim. It is for historians, therefore, to explain why Japanese internment or the massacre of European Jewry hasn't led to equivalent rates of dysfunction and low SES performance among Japanese and Jewish Americans respectively. Arab Americans have been viciously demonized since 9/11, as have Chinese Americans more recently. However, both groups outperform white Americans on nearly all SES indices - as do Nigerian Americans, who incidentally have black skin. It is for historians to point out and discuss these anomalies. However, no real discussion is possible in the current climate at our department. The explanation is provided to us, disagreement with it is racist, and the job of historians is to further explore additional ways in which the explanation is additionally correct. This is a mockery of the historical profession.

Most troublingly, our department appears to have been entirely captured by the interests of the Democratic National Convention, and the Democratic Party more broadly. To explain what I mean, consider what happens if you choose to donate to Black Lives Matter, an organization UCB History has explicitly promoted in its recent mailers. All donations to the official BLM website are immediately redirected to ActBlue Charities, an organization primarily concerned with bankrolling election campaigns for Democrat candidates. Donating to BLM today is to indirectly donate to Joe Biden's 2020 campaign. This is grotesque given the fact that the American cities with the worst rates of black-on-black violence and police-on-black violence are overwhelmingly Democrat-run. Minneapolis itself has been entirely in the hands of Democrats for over five decades; the 'systemic racism' there was built by successive Democrat administrations.

The patronizing and condescending attitudes of Democrat leaders towards the black community, exemplified by nearly every Biden statement on the black race, all but guarantee a perpetual state of misery, resentment, poverty, and the attendant grievance politics which are simultaneously annihilating American political discourse and black lives. And yet, donating to BLM is bankrolling the election campaigns of men like Mayor Frey, who saw their cities devolve into violence. This is a grotesque capture of a good-faith movement for necessary police reform, and of our department, by a political party. Even worse, there are virtually no avenues for dissent in academic circles. I refuse to serve the Party, and so should you.

The total alliance of major corporations involved in human exploitation with BLM should be a warning flag to us, and yet this damning evidence goes unnoticed, purposefully ignored, or perversely celebrated. We are the useful idiots of the wealthiest classes, carrying water for Jeff Bezos and other actual, real, modern-day slavers. Starbucks, an organisation using literal black slaves in its coffee plantation suppliers, is in favor of BLM. Sony, an organisation using cobalt mined by yet more literal black slaves, many of whom are children, is in favor of BLM. And so, apparently, are we. The absence of counter-narrative enables this obscenity. Fiat lux, indeed.

There also exists a large constituency of what can only be called 'race hustlers': hucksters of all colors who benefit from stoking the fires of racial conflict to secure administrative jobs, charity management positions, academic jobs and advancement, or personal political entrepreneurship.

Given the direction our history department appears to be taking far from any commitment to truth, we can regard ourselves as a formative training institution for this brand of snake-oil salespeople. Their activities are corrosive, demolishing any hope at harmonious racial coexistence in our nation and colonizing our political and institutional life. Many of their voices are unironically segregationist.

MLK would likely be called an Uncle Tom if he spoke on our campus today. We are training leaders who intend, explicitly, to destroy one of the only truly successful ethnically diverse societies in modern history. As the PRC, an ethnonationalist and aggressively racially chauvinist national polity with null immigration and no concept of jus solis increasingly presents itself as the global political alternative to the US, I ask you: Is this wise? Are we really doing the right thing?

As a final point, our university and department has made multiple statements celebrating and eulogizing George Floyd. Floyd was a multiple felon who once held a pregnant black woman at gunpoint. He broke into her home with a gang of men and pointed a gun at her pregnant stomach. He terrorized the women in his community. He sired and abandoned multiple children, playing no part in their support or upbringing, failing one of the most basic tests of decency for a human being. He was a drug-addict and sometime drug-dealer, a swindler who preyed upon his honest and hard-working neighbors.

And yet, the regents of UC and the historians of the UCB History department are celebrating this violent criminal, elevating his name to virtual sainthood. A man who hurt women. A man who hurt black women. With the full collaboration of the UCB history department, corporate America, most mainstream media outlets, and some of the wealthiest and most privileged opinion-shaping elites of the USA, he has become a culture hero, buried in a golden casket, his (recognized) family showered with gifts and praise. Americans are being socially pressured into kneeling for this violent, abusive misogynist. A generation of black men are being coerced into identifying with George Floyd, the absolute worst specimen of our race and species.

I'm ashamed of my department. I would say that I'm ashamed of both of you, but perhaps you agree with me, and are simply afraid, as I am, of the backlash of speaking the truth. It's hard to know what kneeling means, when you have to kneel to keep your job.

It shouldn't affect the strength of my argument above, but for the record, I write as a person of color. My family have been personally victimized by men like Floyd. We are aware of the condescending depredations of the Democrat party against our race. The humiliating assumption that we are too stupid to do STEM, that we need special help and lower requirements to get ahead in life, is richly familiar to us. I sometimes wonder if it wouldn't be easier to deal with open fascists, who at least would be straightforward in calling me a subhuman, and who are unlikely to share my race.

The ever-present soft bigotry of low expectations and the permanent claim that the solutions to the plight of my people rest exclusively on the goodwill of whites rather than on our own hard work is psychologically devastating. No other group in America is systematically demoralized in this way by its alleged allies. A whole generation of black children are being taught that only by begging and weeping and screaming will they get handouts from guilt-ridden whites.

No message will more surely devastate their futures, especially if whites run out of guilt, or indeed if America runs out of whites. If this had been done to Japanese Americans, or Jewish Americans, or Chinese Americans, then Chinatown and Japantown would surely be no different to the roughest parts of Baltimore and East St. Louis today. The History department of UCB is now an integral institutional promulgator of a destructive and denigrating fallacy about the black race.

I hope you appreciate the frustration behind this message. I do not support BLM. I do not support the Democrat grievance agenda and the Party's uncontested capture of our department. I do not support the Party co-opting my race, as Biden recently did in his disturbing interview, claiming that voting Democrat and being black are isomorphic. I condemn the manner of George Floyd's death and join you in calling for greater police accountability and police reform. However, I will not pretend that George Floyd was anything other than a violent misogynist, a brutal man who met a predictably brutal end.

I also want to protect the practice of history. Cleo is no grovelling handmaiden to politicians and corporations. Like us, she is free.

[Manic!]

This is a powerful essay penned anonymously by a UC Berkeley professor




And how do we know this person is a professor? According to this, the person works at UK Berkely.



https://uncoverdc.com/2020/06/12/uc-berkeley-history-professors-open-letter-against-blm-police-brutality-and-cultural-orthodoxy/


I can confirm that the letter in the thread below was sent to me and Tom Sowell. It's really worth reading, in a time of widespread panic. https://twitter.com/tracybeanz/status/1271219776606687233 …
Tracy Beanz @tracybeanz

Thread: I was sent this and felt the need to thread it here on Twitter. It will be long. It is purported to be an anonymous, open letter from a professor at UK Berkeley in the History Department. The only comment I will make is to say it is worth every moment of the read.

[SkinnyPupp]

This is a powerful essay penned anonymously by a UC Berkeley professor arguing against the current narratives of racial injustice underpinning the BLM movement. I am not denying that racism (or white-supremacy) exists and as a person of color, I have personally experienced blatant racism in Canada (from both whites and blacks). With that said, this professor raises a lot of critical facts that I was not aware of which made me think... for many of us who are vehemently supporting the BLM movement, how many of us have actually investigated this topic thoroughly, actively seeking for arguments from both sides? If you think you have, try refuting some of the questions raised in this prof's essay (in bold). In the current climate that we're in, its either you hop-on full onboard (easy to do), or you better keep your mouth shut as there is very little room for debating. Again, I don't agree with everything on that's written in this essay, but I certainly don't have answers to most of his arguments either.

UC Berkeley History Professor's Open Letter Against BLM, Police Brutality and Cultural Orthodoxy


Dear profs X, Y, Z

I am one of your colleagues at the University of California, Berkeley. I have met you both personally but do not know you closely, and am contacting you anonymously, with apologies. I am worried that writing this email publicly might lead to me losing my job, and likely all future jobs in my field.

In your recent departmental emails you mentioned our pledge to diversity, but I am increasingly alarmed by the absence of diversity of opinion on the topic of the recent protests and our community response to them.

In the extended links and resources you provided, I could not find a single instance of substantial counter-argument or alternative narrative to explain the under-representation of black individuals in academia or their over-representation in the criminal justice system. The explanation provided in your documentation, to the near exclusion of all others, is univariate: the problems of the black community are caused by whites, or, when whites are not physically present, by the infiltration of white supremacy and white systemic racism into American brains, souls, and institutions.

Many cogent objections to this thesis have been raised by sober voices, including from within the black community itself, such as Thomas Sowell and Wilfred Reilly. These people are not racists or 'Uncle Toms'. They are intelligent scholars who reject a narrative that strips black people of agency and systematically externalizes the problems of the black community onto outsiders. Their view is entirely absent from the departmental and UCB-wide communiques.

The claim that the difficulties that the black community faces are entirely causally explained by exogenous factors in the form of white systemic racism, white supremacy, and other forms of white discrimination remains a problematic hypothesis that should be vigorously challenged by historians. Instead, it is being treated as an axiomatic and actionable truth without serious consideration of its profound flaws, or its worrying implication of total black impotence. This hypothesis is transforming our institution and our culture, without any space for dissent outside of a tightly policed, narrow discourse.

A counternarrative exists. If you have time, please consider examining some of the documents I attach at the end of this email. Overwhelmingly, the reasoning provided by BLM and allies is either primarily anecdotal (as in the case with the bulk of Ta-Nehisi Coates' undeniably moving article) or it is transparently motivated. As an example of the latter problem, consider the proportion of black incarcerated Americans. This proportion is often used to characterize the criminal justice system as anti-black. However, if we use the precise same methodology, we would have to conclude that the criminal justice system is even more anti-male than it is anti-black.

Would we characterize criminal justice as a systemically misandrist conspiracy against innocent American men? I hope you see that this type of reasoning is flawed, and requires a significant suspension of our rational faculties. Black people are not incarcerated at higher rates than their involvement in violent crime would predict. This fact has been demonstrated multiple times across multiple jurisdictions in multiple countries.

And yet, I see my department uncritically reproducing a narrative that diminishes black agency in favor of a white-centric explanation that appeals to the department's apparent desire to shoulder the 'white man's burden' and to promote a narrative of white guilt.

If we claim that the criminal justice system is white-supremacist, why is it that Asian Americans, Indian Americans, and Nigerian Americans are incarcerated at vastly lower rates than white Americans? This is a funny sort of white supremacy. Even Jewish Americans are incarcerated less than gentile whites. I think it's fair to say that your average white supremacist disapproves of Jews. And yet, these alleged white supremacists incarcerate gentiles at vastly higher rates than Jews. None of this is addressed in your literature. None of this is explained, beyond hand-waving and ad hominems. "Those are racist dogwhistles". "The model minority myth is white supremacist". "Only fascists talk about black-on-black crime", ad nauseam.

These types of statements do not amount to counterarguments: they are simply arbitrary offensive classifications, intended to silence and oppress discourse. Any serious historian will recognize these for the silencing orthodoxy tactics they are, common to suppressive regimes, doctrines, and religions throughout time and space. They are intended to crush real diversity and permanently exile the culture of robust criticism from our department.

Increasingly, we are being called upon to comply and subscribe to BLM's problematic view of history, and the department is being presented as unified on the matter. In particular, ethnic minorities are being aggressively marshaled into a single position. Any apparent unity is surely a function of the fact that dissent could almost certainly lead to expulsion or cancellation for those of us in a precarious position, which is no small number.

I personally don't dare speak out against the BLM narrative, and with this barrage of alleged unity being mass-produced by the administration, tenured professoriat, the UC administration, corporate America, and the media, the punishment for dissent is a clear danger at a time of widespread economic vulnerability. I am certain that if my name were attached to this email, I would lose my job and all future jobs, even though I believe in and can justify every word I type.

The vast majority of violence visited on the black community is committed by black people. There are virtually no marches for these invisible victims, no public silences, no heartfelt letters from the UC regents, deans, and departmental heads. The message is clear: Black lives only matter when whites take them. Black violence is expected and insoluble, while white violence requires explanation and demands solution. Please look into your hearts and see how monstrously bigoted this formulation truly is.

No discussion is permitted for nonblack victims of black violence, who proportionally outnumber black victims of nonblack violence. This is especially bitter in the Bay Area, where Asian victimization by black assailants has reached epidemic proportions, to the point that the SF police chief has advised Asians to stop hanging good-luck charms on their doors, as this attracts the attention of (overwhelmingly black) home invaders. Home invaders like George Floyd. For this actual, lived, physically experienced reality of violence in the USA, there are no marches, no tearful emails from departmental heads, no support from McDonald's and Wal-Mart. For the History department, our silence is not a mere abrogation of our duty to shed light on the truth: it is a rejection of it.

The claim that black intraracial violence is the product of redlining, slavery, and other injustices is a largely historical claim. It is for historians, therefore, to explain why Japanese internment or the massacre of European Jewry hasn't led to equivalent rates of dysfunction and low SES performance among Japanese and Jewish Americans respectively. Arab Americans have been viciously demonized since 9/11, as have Chinese Americans more recently. However, both groups outperform white Americans on nearly all SES indices - as do Nigerian Americans, who incidentally have black skin. It is for historians to point out and discuss these anomalies. However, no real discussion is possible in the current climate at our department. The explanation is provided to us, disagreement with it is racist, and the job of historians is to further explore additional ways in which the explanation is additionally correct. This is a mockery of the historical profession.

Most troublingly, our department appears to have been entirely captured by the interests of the Democratic National Convention, and the Democratic Party more broadly. To explain what I mean, consider what happens if you choose to donate to Black Lives Matter, an organization UCB History has explicitly promoted in its recent mailers. All donations to the official BLM website are immediately redirected to ActBlue Charities, an organization primarily concerned with bankrolling election campaigns for Democrat candidates. Donating to BLM today is to indirectly donate to Joe Biden's 2020 campaign. This is grotesque given the fact that the American cities with the worst rates of black-on-black violence and police-on-black violence are overwhelmingly Democrat-run. Minneapolis itself has been entirely in the hands of Democrats for over five decades; the 'systemic racism' there was built by successive Democrat administrations.

The patronizing and condescending attitudes of Democrat leaders towards the black community, exemplified by nearly every Biden statement on the black race, all but guarantee a perpetual state of misery, resentment, poverty, and the attendant grievance politics which are simultaneously annihilating American political discourse and black lives. And yet, donating to BLM is bankrolling the election campaigns of men like Mayor Frey, who saw their cities devolve into violence. This is a grotesque capture of a good-faith movement for necessary police reform, and of our department, by a political party. Even worse, there are virtually no avenues for dissent in academic circles. I refuse to serve the Party, and so should you.

The total alliance of major corporations involved in human exploitation with BLM should be a warning flag to us, and yet this damning evidence goes unnoticed, purposefully ignored, or perversely celebrated. We are the useful idiots of the wealthiest classes, carrying water for Jeff Bezos and other actual, real, modern-day slavers. Starbucks, an organisation using literal black slaves in its coffee plantation suppliers, is in favor of BLM. Sony, an organisation using cobalt mined by yet more literal black slaves, many of whom are children, is in favor of BLM. And so, apparently, are we. The absence of counter-narrative enables this obscenity. Fiat lux, indeed.

There also exists a large constituency of what can only be called 'race hustlers': hucksters of all colors who benefit from stoking the fires of racial conflict to secure administrative jobs, charity management positions, academic jobs and advancement, or personal political entrepreneurship.

Given the direction our history department appears to be taking far from any commitment to truth, we can regard ourselves as a formative training institution for this brand of snake-oil salespeople. Their activities are corrosive, demolishing any hope at harmonious racial coexistence in our nation and colonizing our political and institutional life. Many of their voices are unironically segregationist.

MLK would likely be called an Uncle Tom if he spoke on our campus today. We are training leaders who intend, explicitly, to destroy one of the only truly successful ethnically diverse societies in modern history. As the PRC, an ethnonationalist and aggressively racially chauvinist national polity with null immigration and no concept of jus solis increasingly presents itself as the global political alternative to the US, I ask you: Is this wise? Are we really doing the right thing?

As a final point, our university and department has made multiple statements celebrating and eulogizing George Floyd. Floyd was a multiple felon who once held a pregnant black woman at gunpoint. He broke into her home with a gang of men and pointed a gun at her pregnant stomach. He terrorized the women in his community. He sired and abandoned multiple children, playing no part in their support or upbringing, failing one of the most basic tests of decency for a human being. He was a drug-addict and sometime drug-dealer, a swindler who preyed upon his honest and hard-working neighbors.

And yet, the regents of UC and the historians of the UCB History department are celebrating this violent criminal, elevating his name to virtual sainthood. A man who hurt women. A man who hurt black women. With the full collaboration of the UCB history department, corporate America, most mainstream media outlets, and some of the wealthiest and most privileged opinion-shaping elites of the USA, he has become a culture hero, buried in a golden casket, his (recognized) family showered with gifts and praise. Americans are being socially pressured into kneeling for this violent, abusive misogynist. A generation of black men are being coerced into identifying with George Floyd, the absolute worst specimen of our race and species.

I'm ashamed of my department. I would say that I'm ashamed of both of you, but perhaps you agree with me, and are simply afraid, as I am, of the backlash of speaking the truth. It's hard to know what kneeling means, when you have to kneel to keep your job.

It shouldn't affect the strength of my argument above, but for the record, I write as a person of color. My family have been personally victimized by men like Floyd. We are aware of the condescending depredations of the Democrat party against our race. The humiliating assumption that we are too stupid to do STEM, that we need special help and lower requirements to get ahead in life, is richly familiar to us. I sometimes wonder if it wouldn't be easier to deal with open fascists, who at least would be straightforward in calling me a subhuman, and who are unlikely to share my race.

The ever-present soft bigotry of low expectations and the permanent claim that the solutions to the plight of my people rest exclusively on the goodwill of whites rather than on our own hard work is psychologically devastating. No other group in America is systematically demoralized in this way by its alleged allies. A whole generation of black children are being taught that only by begging and weeping and screaming will they get handouts from guilt-ridden whites.

No message will more surely devastate their futures, especially if whites run out of guilt, or indeed if America runs out of whites. If this had been done to Japanese Americans, or Jewish Americans, or Chinese Americans, then Chinatown and Japantown would surely be no different to the roughest parts of Baltimore and East St. Louis today. The History department of UCB is now an integral institutional promulgator of a destructive and denigrating fallacy about the black race.

I hope you appreciate the frustration behind this message. I do not support BLM. I do not support the Democrat grievance agenda and the Party's uncontested capture of our department. I do not support the Party co-opting my race, as Biden recently did in his disturbing interview, claiming that voting Democrat and being black are isomorphic. I condemn the manner of George Floyd's death and join you in calling for greater police accountability and police reform. However, I will not pretend that George Floyd was anything other than a violent misogynist, a brutal man who met a predictably brutal end.

I also want to protect the practice of history. Cleo is no grovelling handmaiden to politicians and corporations. Like us, she is free.


Thanks for bolding the shitty logical fallacies, so we don't have to read all that LUL

[birddog3k]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3PaqxblOx0

[SkinnyPupp]

First Minneapolis, now Denver

https://twitter.com/TayAndersonCO/status/1271284279067066369

They've been trying to get this changed for a while now (https://www.publicschoolreview.com/blog/denver-public-schools-buck-trend-plug-school-to-prison-pipeline).

[whitev70r]

Regardless of whether you agree with a point of view or not, I think you should be open to hearing it and reading it. Democracy and free speech isn't what you just think is right. Whether the person is a professor at Berkeley or not is secondary, the person's questions should be taken at face value, it shouldn't be weighted more if he has degrees behind his name or Joe on the street.

This is why I think Skinnydawg constantly disqualifies himself as a mod, not only in this thread but in the HK protest one and the Canadian politics one. Your dismissive attitude is getting old and tiring.

[twitchyzero]

Floyd was a multiple felon who once held a pregnant black woman at gunpoint. He broke into her home with a gang of men and pointed a gun at her pregnant stomach. He terrorized the women in his community. He sired and abandoned multiple children, playing no part in their support or upbringing, failing one of the most basic tests of decency for a human being. He was a drug-addict and sometime drug-dealer, a swindler who preyed upon his honest and hard-working neighbors.

:fuckthatshit: if true

[bobbinka]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tR6mKcBbT4

[SkinnyPupp]

More platitudes, or is NFL actually changing their corporate culture? :considered:

https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/1271467779007418368

[Manic!]

:fuckthatshit: if true

and the cop who killed him had been reprimanded 19 times and in the prosses of his second divorce. I wonder why they left him.

Dirtying the victim is standard in the states. Remember when they tried to dirty Travon martin? The used pics of other black people and claimed it was him.

https://www.dailydot.com/wp-content/uploads/e58/98/trayvonrebuttal-512x512.jpg

[underscore]

:fuckthatshit: if true

What's your point?

[Jmac]

:fuckthatshit: if true
Even if it were true, cops are not judge, jury, and executioner. Every person has a right to due process and is to be considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. It’s a basic human right as per the UN and it’s in the constitution of almost every country on Earth including the US.

[twitchyzero]

i get that he was the last straw for the movement

never said police brutality is fine but click into like 9000 other threads here and you'll also find 'justice system is a joke, slap on the wrist and they'll be back out'

[MarkyMark]

i get that he was the last straw for the movement

never said police brutality is fine but click into like 9000 other threads here and you'll also find 'justice system is a joke, slap on the wrist and they'll be back out'

In Canada the justice system is a joke in a lot of circumstances. That has nothing to do with police it has to do with the judicial system. Not sure how this applies to what's going on in the States.

[twitchyzero]

law enforcement includes courts and jails

there's been a series of large scale demonstrations in vancouver so it's all applicable

[welfare]

Even if it were true, cops are not judge, jury, and executioner. Every person has a right to due process and is to be considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. It’s a basic human right as per the UN and it’s in the constitution of almost every country on Earth including the US.

They aren't. And no one is arguing that.
But he's certainly not the saint that the media are making him out to be.

A criminal background is often all an officer has to gauge the level of threat they may face by an assailant. especially one who's 6'6" and high on fentanyl and methamphetamine.
It's definitely not a justification. But it's an important detail that, had the media a shred of integrity, would have reported.

[MarkyMark]

They aren't. And no one is arguing that.
But he's certainly not the saint that the media are making him out to be.

A criminal background is often all an officer has to gauge the level of threat they may face by an assailant. especially one who's 6'6" and high on fentanyl and methamphetamine.
It's definitely not a justification. But it's an important detail that, had the media a shred of integrity, would have reported.

I'm definitely not a blindless supporter of George Floyd, if the shit about him is true he surely wasn't a great person. What he's done in the past is irrelevant in what happened to him. He's already down and out at that point. He's on the ground with multiple officers around him. He didn't deserve to die like that and there's no "important detail" that changes what the officer did to him.

People bringing up his past really just shows how people are still clinging to some weird justification to what happened to him. He wasn't a threat to anyone when he died, what else do you have left to argue?

[SkinnyPupp]

https://twitter.com/JoshuaPotash/status/1271576998650003456

[welfare]

I'm definitely not a blindless supporter of George Floyd, if the shit about him is true he surely wasn't a great person. What he's done in the past is irrelevant in what happened to him. He's already down and out at that point. He's on the ground with multiple officers around him. He didn't deserve to die like that and there's no "important detail" that changes what the officer did to him.

People bringing up his past really just shows how people are still clinging to some weird justification to what happened to him. He wasn't a threat to anyone when he died, what else do you have left to argue?

20 people have died as a result of these protests. Most of them black. Many of them good people with morals. Some devoting their lives to serving the public. Yet there's been little to no recognition for them.
Were their lives somehow not worthy of coverage?
Seems that the only black lives that matter are those determined by the media to drive division.

[welfare]

I won't admit, then, that I'm a bit of an Empire Loyalist, hee hee.......

Why is it that western civilization seems to bare the brunt for slavery when nearly every single culture in history has engaged in the practice, ranging back from prerecorded time?
and even though western civilization is the SOLE culture responsible for its abolishment, it's only blamed. never credited.
The slaves traded through the transatlantic certainly weren't captured by Portuguese and Dutch. Most were enslaved by the feuding African tribes prior to being traded to these Europeans.

Why is slavery America's legacy when they received less than 5% of all slaves traded through the transatlantic? while the vast majority were shipped to Brazil and the Caribbean where, most perished due to the horrible living standards compared to America landed slaves.

The civilization that gave us the Magna Carta. The freest, fairest (however imperfect) civilization mankind has known.
Over 600,000 men died fighting to abolish the reprehensible practice. yet it's still occurring today in places like Libya, and without much regard from the 'tolerant' folks who can't tolerate the statues for the views held by some (white) men centuries ago in this current year. Go figure.

[twitchyzero]

To make things as clear as possible, I will point out the two things that DID matter:

1) It DID matter that he was black.
2) It DID matter that the person who murdered him was a cop.

did it matter 2 of the 4 officers were of African and Asian descent?

[MarkyMark]

20 people have died as a result of these protests. Most of them black. Many of them good people with morals. Some devoting their lives to serving the public. Yet there's been little to no recognition for them.
Were their lives somehow not worthy of coverage?
Seems that the only black lives that matter are those determined by the media to drive division.

So what you're trying to say is the protests are worse than what caused them? These protests are because of generations of bullshit of killing black people for no good reason. You're trying to negate that by saying the protests caused more deaths than George Floyd. That's a crock of shit. How many black people over the last 50+ years have died just because it's been easy to sweep it under the rug? The only saving grace is technology that shows that you can't trust what the fuck cops say about a situation.

No one's death isn't "worthy of coverage". You're trying to muddy the waters by saying George Floyds death isn't worthy of the 20 deaths that followed his. Well if those 20 deaths are what sparked real change then they have saved countless deaths that would have happened in the future if people didn't decide to speak out.

[MarkyMark]

did it matter 2 of the 4 officers were of African and Asian descent?

I really want to know why you believe this. Cop culture has proven they protect their own regardless of skin color. Do you really think if this was a white guy on wall street wearing a suit the way it went down would have been the same?

You can say "different neighborhood" all you want, but when your knee is on the back of their neck the situation is the same whether you're in Compton or Greenwich.

[Manic!]

Why is it that western civilization seems to bare the brunt for slavery when nearly every single culture in history has engaged in the practice, ranging back from prerecorded time?


That's because slavery still affects people to this day. After slavery ended they still had segregation. Imagine being a child going to school surrounded by police/army while the parents of your classmates screamed nigger at you.

Some of the people yelling nigger in the 1960's are still living today. Do you think they treated blacks fairly in the 70's, 80s, 90's?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wkg1gQB0LU

8 years ago they still had segregated prom in some schools.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDla-r2uj7U

Oh and trump called antifa a domestic terrorist group but the KKK still exists America.

[welfare]

So what you're trying to say is the protests are worse than what caused them? These protests are because of generations of bullshit of killing black people for no good reason. You're trying to negate that by saying the protests caused more deaths than George Floyd. That's a crock of shit. How many black people over the last 50+ years have died just because it's been easy to sweep it under the rug? The only saving grace is technology that shows that you can't trust what the fuck cops say about a situation.

No one's death isn't "worthy of coverage". You're trying to muddy the waters by saying George Floyds death isn't worthy of the 20 deaths that followed his. Well if those 20 deaths are what sparked real change then they have saved countless deaths that would have happened in the future if people didn't decide to speak out.


do you think the small business owners (most of them minorities) in these cities who've had their livelihood destroyed by looters and rioters want less police presence?
Do you think the victims of the rampant violent crime that occurs in these neighborhoods want to 'defund the police'?

It's my opinion that the officers involved in Floyd's death should be prosecuted to the fullest extent. Which they are.
I'm not a psychic though, so i can't say what effect these broad measures will have on the communities police risk their lives to protect.
I can't say whether or not further restriction of police officers who had nothing to do with this, or any other unjust death is a good thing for those residents.
Or whether or not police forces will even be able to maintain recruitment, which has already been on a drastic decline prior to this.
But i know where I'd put my money. We reap what we sew.

[Hehe]

Ok, I said I wasn't going to reply anymore to this thread, but from the latest posts here, I thought I'd make another post because by keeping silence, I feel that I'm condoning the development and it's not what I think it's right for us and our kids in the future.

First, to just this thread here. For those pro-BLM here, when materials that go AGAINST your opinion, please at least have the decency of reading it through them before making any judgment. By simply ignoring them, you are simply doing what many of the BLM groups out there are doing: if it ain't black, WE DON'T CARE! Our world has never been all black and white. Many shades grays and other colors exist in between. By ignoring those, it's nothing short of naive for a lack of a better word.

Differences in our society are bound to happen. And when it does, you don't simply ignore other voices and stick only to your idea. We need to EMBRACE all the different opinions and find a middle ground that would move our society as a WHOLE better.

Once you read through the points raised by the other side, you can then counter it with your thoughts and points. This allows us to shape it for a better outcome. We would NEVER reach anything that could account for everyone. But we make them so that everyone can agree upon.

------------------

Now to the latest development of BLM.

Some of the ideas that BLM activist groups are suggesting is simply appalling if not downright disgusting.

They are blaming all the problems that African American are facing on racial inequality. That includes, but not limited to, education, income, poverty, crime rate... so on. They go on as saying the effect of slavery, over a century after, still account for most, if not all, of it.

I really want to ask... WHAT THE FUCK do they come up with this?! Like seriously.

We are born different. And that is the BEAUTY of humankind. We embrace and encourage diversity and many of the best and most successful stories in human history came out from being DIFFERENT.

Now, it has its downsides... some are born into a more "lucky" families than others. However, it is not an EXCUSE for the failure of many... whether you are black, white, yellow, brown or whatever skin/race/ethnicity you are.

I was born in a family that I consider normal to poor, at least for the majority of times of my childhood. We had very little luxury... my entire family slept on a single "bed", if we could even call a big platform made out of 2x4s and plywood with no mattress a bed and I had to pretty much deal everything on my own with my brother as my parents were too busy working their ass off. And they weren't born rich either. My dad barely finished elementary school before he left the city he was born for work and my mom was more or less the same except she did another year in what we consider here grade 7.

Something they always knew though... was that THEY NEEDED TO WORK HARD. So they never stopped working. Even today, in their late 60s they still do a weekly meeting with managements in their company to ensure every problem gets the attention they deserve. And they grow pretty much everything they eat except pork, beef and seafood.

When they are finally developing wealth, beyond what people consider a living wage, they still live a very modest life and never indulged themselves or me and my brother with anything worth mentioning. For as long as I can remember, the first time I felt we indulged on something was when my parents finally bought us the SNES that I and my brother had wanted it for so long (we wanted something to play with, seeing that all our classmates had NES or SNES after it came out) and that's ONLY AFTER me and my brother did great in our scheduled tests... 3 times in a role for the entire school year.

And that's basically what we have been taught. If we wanted ANYTHING, we HAD to EARN IT. At the very early stage of them becoming financially well off by most standards, they had made it clear that I and my brother wouldn't get any of that and they'd donate most of their wealth away except some portion for education for future generations.

So I worked my ass off. I consider myself lucky as I'm quite clever. I never had an issue with studying and had always been the very top of class for as long as I can remember. But that's because AGAIN... I WORKED MY ASS OFF. In Asia, we'd get our textbooks the first day of class. I'd finish reading EVERY ONE OF THEM by the weekend and then it's just NEVERENDING PRACTICE from there on.

Then we moved to South America because the business my dad had in Taiwan wasn't working anymore. We had to endure things unimaginable by North American standards. I remember seeing bugs like slimes on the wall everywhere and the floor was never exactly dry because of all the plumbing issues the place was having. Again, had to work our ass off... to learn a new language, to fit into a new society and South America, in the different countries we have been aren't exactly the most friendly with Asian faces and we had been robbed/tortured at gunpoint by people breaking into our place in the middle of the night and taking everything.

That never stopped us from WORKING OUR ASS OFF and feel that the society OWE us ANYTHING.

We proved to the people who looked down upon us wrong and succeed both financially and socially. I've made lifelong friends with all different races/social backgrounds, one of which I won't name, but he's a major football star now in Europe and we still grab a drink or have a dinner at home every time we are close to each other. He came from a much poorer family. And he also never stopped chasing his dream.

We are all very normal folks... each with our own gift that we made SURE to make the most out of it.

Now... with all that said... on WHAT GROUND do many people in the BLM movement say that SYSTEMATIC RACIAL DISCRIMINATION MADE IT IMPOSSBLE TO SUCCEED in their life?

Let's take even a step further.

George Floyd is not an innocent man... he had MANY MANY problems with the law before. It's a tragedy what happened to him, but it was NOT the CAUSE of what happened to his life before that day. He CHOSE to have a life like that.

BLM wants to argue that society never gave him the chance because he is black. That's a fucking insult to millions of black people who work their butt off for a chance to succeed in their life, which many of them did.

BLM wants to argue that the rest of the society, especially the whites, can have a better life because of their skin. That's a fucking insult to billions of people who are successful (not even by any special standard, just the BLM one) because they work their ass off and have black or any other color for that matter.

BLM wants to argue that the success of other people in America was built on slavery of the blacks. That's a fucking insult on millions of Americans who moved to America AFTER the slavery had ended.

BLM wants to argue that all cops are bad and corrupt so we should get rid of them. So, what are they suggesting? A lawless society where everyone is on their own?

And what example are they trying to make to our future generations?! If you don't succeed, blame it on something/someone else. People who are lazy AF deserves the SAME to those who work their ass off. People who has no respect to the society and its rules at all should have the same fortune than same as those who play by the rules?

Hard working does not guarantee success. But it's the BASIC INGREDIENT of that. Yes, there are lucky sperms... but those are a very very small percentages of our society. And kudos to their ancestors. Because I'm sure somewhere along the way, they had to do things/take decisions unimaginable/impossible to others to let their offsprings have a life like that.

----------------

Tl;dr
We want to eliminate any barriers/stereotyping/prejudice made to people base on their ethnicity/social/race. We do our best for people to meet the basic bar to have a normal decent life and pave ways for them to GROW from that bar onward. Lowering/eliminating the bar so that everyone can easily meet it just push us lower and lower each time. We as a society look to GROW... to BE BETTER. Not to always AIM for the lowest possible target. Becoming better is never easy, but it is NECESSARY. We owe it to ourselves and our future generations to be BETTER TOMORROW than today. Eliminate racial profiling is another step to be BETTER. Sadly, BLM is pushing things in a direction I cannot agree to and cannot stay silent about it.

[twitchyzero]

I really want to know why you believe this. Cop culture has proven they protect their own regardless of skin color. Do you really think if this was a white guy on wall street wearing a suit the way it went down would have been the same?

You can say "different neighborhood" all you want, but when your knee is on the back of their neck the situation is the same whether you're in Compton or Greenwich.

what if he was Latino? and middle class ?

you can’t say skin colour doesn’t matter for police only for criminals (I say criminal given his history)

[68style]

So, Hehe, your whole family has constantly worked it’s collective ass off... but what if every time you went to go work your ass off somewhere someone called the cops on you or told you they don’t hire your kind or refused to promote you cuz of your ethnicity or paid you less than your peers because of your ethnicity? What if your parents grew up multiple generations in a place that also denigrated them?

You’d be sitting there with drunk ass drug addicted parents in a ghetto eking out an existence through trouble or breaking the law now too. That’s what the word systemic results in.

You just don’t fucking get it buddy, you and your family grew up surrounded by opportunity, which thankfully they took advantage of, not closed doors.

Congrats to your family. I’m sure taiwan was very kind to... other Taiwanese lol. My ex’s family went through the exact same program as you, left Taiwan with a business idea to go to Brazil for a cup of tea and then to Canada at the PERFECT time as with all boomers to take advantage of post 20% interest rate real estate prices to build up millions in future assets. Perfect timing for a Perfect situation! You know what you have in common with all the black people that actually make it from the hood? Luck and timing. Should you have to be lucky and have perfect timing to succeed? Hmmm?

Do you even listen to yourself?

[MG1]

Ok, I said I wasn't going to reply anymore to this thread, but from the latest posts here, I thought I'd make another post because by keeping silence, I feel that I'm condoning the development and it's not what I think it's right for us and our kids in the future...........snip, snip, snip

Thanked you for your family's story and some of your points. I like to think I keep an open mind. See all sides of the coin. I tend not to follow the crowd and try to listen to those who say stuff against the current..........

thank you for your contribution. Some people become blind and get caught up in the swell.............


anyway, carry on carrying on.

[Hondaracer]

Don’t really understand the uproar over the native chief in Alberta that got taken down. Yea maybe the punch to the head was excessive but what can a cop do

You’re being served a ticket, you seem like your drunk/intoxicated. You refuse a legitimate ticket because you’re driving around with expired insurance, and then you get out of your vehicle and storm at the cops like you’re going to attack them?

Then once you’re tackled and arrested you’re still fighting back?

But yea, that only happened because he was a native guy :/

[whitev70r]

Yah, whether you agree with Hehe's point of view or not, he does have a point that SOME people with determination, hard work, and some luck make it out of the poverty cycle. And it is also true that for many, determination, hard work won't because they hit bad luck resulting in some very frustrating and oppressive results. BOTH can be true in a complex world. How can you dispute this? It is empirically obvious. We see black mayors, chiefs of police, governors, even a president of the US, etc.

The 2nd thing that is worthy of consideration is that putting the situation all on external circumstances (systemic racism) isn't helpful and will perpetuate the very problem. This isn't to say that systemic racism isn't a huge societal problem, it is and something needs to be done about that but it isn't the magic bullet. Those who want to offer a reminder or a corrective to this whole movement is saying don't JUST play the race, victim card. Let's hear some voices of how we can empower, educate, inner city black children and youths and steer them away from a destructive lifestyle (drugs, gangs, etc.)

And lastly, I also think that the police who murdered George Floyd should get the consequences of the fullest extent of the law. (I feel like if I don't state that, some will automatically label you as a troll here). Having said this, if you think the history of a person doesn't affect how he is treated by a police, you're a keyboard SJW. If you get pulled over, you know why it takes the police officer so damn long to get to your car? He's checking your history. And if this is the 7th speeding offense of the year, you're going to be treated differently than if it was your 1st. To think that a police doesn't take the history of a person into consideration is pure stupidity. Remember what I said at the beginning of the paragraph ... I believe the officer used excessive force and should be punished but real life policing isn't writing out a paragraph on your computer in your pajamas at home. Shit happens in real life and you better be prepared if someone has a record of assault. Hell, even google has a profile of you and treats you by your history.

[MG1]

Wow, whitev70r, you're not just another pretty face. Yes, we need to find positive and creative ways to address these issues.

Not all cops are evil. I know quite a few and their jobs just became that much harder. Just like nurses and care workers' jobs just got a whole lot harder because of this pandemic.

Anyway..............

[Tegra_Devil]

Don’t really understand the uproar over the native chief in Alberta that got taken down. Yea maybe the punch to the head was excessive but what can a cop do

You’re being served a ticket, you seem like your drunk/intoxicated. You refuse a legitimate ticket because you’re driving around with expired insurance, and then you get out of your vehicle and storm at the cops like you’re going to attack them?

Then once you’re tackled and arrested you’re still fighting back?

But yea, that only happened because he was a native guy :/

it's okay, RCMP are all racists and so are all white people(/sarcasm). That's why this happened FailFish

[unit]

Wow, whitev70r, you're not just another pretty face. Yes, we need to find positive and creative ways to address these issues.

Not all cops are evil. I know quite a few and their jobs just became that much harder. Just like nurses and care workers' jobs just got a whole lot harder because of this pandemic.

Anyway..............

the only cops that are doing a good job are the ones who don't stick up for each other because of the expectations put upon them by cop culture. when your partner is doing something fucked up, you don't stick up for him, and when you see your colleagues trying to cover up for one another, you speak out and blow the whistle. if you can't do that then you're a crooked cop. there are a lot more crooked cops than ones who actually uphold the law for everyone evenly.

[MG1]

Don’t really understand the uproar over the native chief in Alberta that got taken down. Yea maybe the punch to the head was excessive but what can a cop do

You’re being served a ticket, you seem like your drunk/intoxicated. You refuse a legitimate ticket because you’re driving around with expired insurance, and then you get out of your vehicle and storm at the cops like you’re going to attack them?

Then once you’re tackled and arrested you’re still fighting back?

But yea, that only happened because he was a native guy :/


What really gets me is when the story first aired, the media left a lot of the details out. There was a time when news outlets reported the story as is and with no hidden agendas. I wouldn’t go as far as to use the term “fake news,” but holy shit, report the news, not make it. The media can no longer be trusted.

I have to spend time to research the whole story by piecing together bits from this or that. This is by no means new news (pun?) but it has gotten so bad I the last few years.

[mikemhg]

Hehe, your lack of understanding on this issue continues to baffle me, and you continue to make this about yourself.

It's fitting that "anonymous" letter is all over Trump Twitter, we've seen these same arguments "What about blacks killing each other in Chicago!", these are tired and boring arguments that are continued to parroted, do white people actually think the poverty and deaths in black communities are a concept that the black community is ignoring? :lol

There is one black historian in the faculty at Berkeley:

https://history.berkeley.edu/people/faculty

So we're to argue an anonymous letter provided by a person who we don't even know is a professor, that is unwilling to attach their name to their written critique? This anonymous person cites ideas and statistics without providing any data.

He alleges that the disproportion of blacks in prison general to their population in the US, as a testament of the justice system against men writ-large?

Sort of reminds me of the pro-male arguments that pop up when there is discussion of sexual assault against women, pointing out the lack of attention to rape against men.

It's another case of whataboutism, meanwhile ignoring the underlying problem. I've raised numerous stats, I've raised numerous arguments that were not contested, yet there is an onus to debate an anonymous letter?

Hehe, let me break it down for you, because your argument is a common one that I hear from some of my Asian friends, some of them say the exact platitudes that you do, attempting to relate their personal experiences without having any relevant racial experience, or historical knowledge to the subject.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/13/us/asian-americans-blm-conversations-trnd/index.html

Lets be a real here, any honest Asian person in this thread can admit the racist sentiments within Asian communities towards blacks. Shit, my own close Asian friends talk about it all the time. My own Asian girlfriend at the time would tell me how her Grandma accepted me a little more "because I was a lighter black".

Have you ever paid thought to why blacks are the literal bottom of the ladder within every culture and race in the world, historically? Have you ever paid a thought to what type of mental trauma that creates to a race of people? If you are black, no matter the part of the world (even in many parts of Africa for that matter), you are at the very bottom of the proverbial pole.

This creates a culture of self-hatred, the lack of self-love, there is not a history of people in the world that have been widely abused, and used, like the black man. I've had this conversation with my father about this, there is a definitive issue of self-hatred within the black community. This has been caused by historical abuse, which has left a lasting PTSD of sorts.

Hehe, you've never lived in a society where as an Asian man, a bank would deny you a loan, simply based on your race? Let's be real here, and I'm not alleging that Asians do not experience racism in Western culture, but I am extremely confident that the Asian community does not experience the same level of racism, systemic abuse, and economic boundaries that the African-American community does.

That letter speaks about Nigerians, I can attest this myself, my family in Nigeria, and here, are highly educated. Nigerians are some of the highest producing immigrants that enter Western society. That is not a black thing, that is a cultural reason, as Nigerian norms within culture are much different than that of African-American culture.

Hehe, you never grew up in a community where a government has targeted your people, redlining your community, refusing you the ability to get a loan based on your zip code, disenfranchising your ability to vote (watch the recent election debacle in Georgia), or forcing the segregation of schools, siphoning your people and community to schools with little investment or economic opportunities.

The letter cites other racial backgrounds that have undergone hardships in the US, without taking into account that these hardships have all been temporary, and that those hardships have been quickly corrected in order to allow those communities to prosper.

How that can be compared to a race of people shipped to a continent on boats as slaves, and for hundreds of years have had to deal with a system made in design to disenfranchise them, to hold them back, makes absolute no sense to me.

Welfare, I had said I wouldn't engage with you any longer, but I have to respond to one point you made, I want to honestly ask you if you believe this:

"Why is it that western civilization seems to bare the brunt for slavery when nearly every single culture in history has engaged in the practice, ranging back from prerecorded time?"

Since when have Europeans not had to reconcile this issue? The only difference here is that the Europeans decided to abolish slavery within their societies much earlier than that of the Americans. Europe still has many issues, heck have you not seen the banana throwing, the monkey taunts to black football players in stadiums throughout Europe?

No one is giving Europe a pass, the difference here is that European countries do not carry the police-state complex that the US does, nor the level of violence by that of the police. Make no mistake, there is a definitive reckoning that is also going on in Europe right now, you're just not following it, as it does not fit your interests, clearly.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/11/what-black-america-means-to-europe-protests-racism-george-floyd

I have to say, it does get tiring arguing about this subject on a forum where we will clearly not change each other's minds on the subject. As I've said before, the internet is too anonymous, it's too easy to spew tired rhetoric, or incomplex arguments. I'll reiterate, I am totally open to having a rational discussion in person with anyone here who wants to have a dialog that carries a contrary opinion here, I'll leave that olive branch out here once again.

[Hondaracer]

They dramatized the whole event.

They attempted to make the whole ticket and whatnot trivial even though the whole situation was likely triggered automatically by police scanner picking up expired tags on the truck (can’t say this for certain but casino parking lots are probably good spots to pick up drunk drivers and whatnot as well)

No mention that the guy is driving around without insurance for who knows how long, and that he’s been asked repeatedly to comply until he eventually jumps out of the truck (also the clip was cut into peices so it seemed like it was an extended period of time from when the cops initially approached to when the guy jumps out) however the media edits it to look like it happened in a couple of minutes.

Pretty gross reporting on all these events these days. If we can’t get factual reporting it doesn’t do anyone any good. And I’d argue it’s actually harmful to the cause when it comes out after the fact that it was intact all on the guy in question and the police acted appropriately. However that side is -never- reported.

[Hehe]

So, Hehe, your whole family has constantly worked it’s collective ass off... but what if every time you went to go work your ass off somewhere someone called the cops on you or told you they don’t hire your kind or refused to promote you cuz of your ethnicity or paid you less than your peers because of your ethnicity? What if your parents grew up multiple generations in a place that also denigrated them?

You’d be sitting there with drunk ass drug addicted parents in a ghetto eking out an existence through trouble or breaking the law now too. That’s what the word systemic results in.

You just don’t fucking get it buddy, you and your family grew up surrounded by opportunity, which thankfully they took advantage of, not closed doors.

Congrats to your family. I’m sure taiwan was very kind to... other Taiwanese lol. My ex’s family went through the exact same program as you, left Taiwan with a business idea to go to Brazil for a cup of tea and then to Canada at the PERFECT time as with all boomers to take advantage of post 20% interest rate real estate prices to build up millions in future assets. Perfect timing for a Perfect situation! You know what you have in common with all the black people that actually make it from the hood? Luck and timing. Should you have to be lucky and have perfect timing to succeed? Hmmm?

Do you even listen to yourself?

Do you think that it has always been easy for us? That my parents' hard working life have always been perfect to catch the booms? And that luck has always been on our side when doing stuff?

If that was the case, my family didn't have to move out of Taiwan. We also don't need to move from country to country a la nomad style. How many of the BLM supporters have the courage to take that leap? They stayed because they CHOSE to. No one FORBID them of leaving. They CHOSE to stay.

The main difference my parents did have comparing to some of the BLM supporters is that THEY NEVER GAVE UP. They sucked it up and kept working around. If the area wasn't working for them. They moved. Never once they complained, at least not in my memory that everything worked AGAINST their plan. And they NEVER BLAMED it on anyone else for their misfortunate when thing worked AGAINST them.

It is THEIR DECISION to let those "discrimination" get to them. If this company is biased against black, if I were black, I'd be sure to get the fuck out of there.

I do read my post again prior posting... the big "Preview Post" right next to Submit? Yes... I use that. I meant every word that I typed.

Don't look for excuses. Your post reminds me of everything I can't agree with BLM movement. They list excuses after excuses. I can take that not everyone is lucky to be in that position to succeed. But if there's something my parents taught me, and I'm teaching my sons about is that before you make excuses for how things beyond your control are the excuse for your problem. Think DEEP about what you did to put yourself in that spot in the first place.

STOP MAKING EXCUSES.

[Hehe]

Hehe, your lack of understanding on this issue continues to baffle me, and you continue to make this about yourself.

It's fitting that "anonymous" letter is all over Trump Twitter, we've seen these same arguments "What about blacks killing each other in Chicago!", these are tired and boring arguments that are continued to parroted, do white people actually think the poverty and deaths in black communities are a concept that the black community is ignoring? :lol

There is one black historian in the faculty at Berkeley:

https://history.berkeley.edu/people/faculty

So we're to argue an anonymous letter provided by a person who we don't even know is a professor, that is unwilling to attach their name to their written critique? This anonymous person cites ideas and statistics without providing any data.

He alleges that the disproportion of blacks in prison general to their population in the US, as a testament of the justice system against men writ-large?

Sort of reminds me of the pro-male arguments that pop up when there is discussion of sexual assault against women, pointing out the lack of attention to rape against men.

It's another case of whataboutism, meanwhile ignoring the underlying problem. I've raised numerous stats, I've raised numerous arguments that were not contested, yet there is an onus to debate an anonymous letter?

Hehe, let me break it down for you, because your argument is a common one that I hear from some of my Asian friends, some of them say the exact platitudes that you do, attempting to relate their personal experiences without having any relevant racial experience, or historical knowledge to the subject.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/13/us/asian-americans-blm-conversations-trnd/index.html

Lets be a real here, any honest Asian person in this thread can admit the racist sentiments within Asian communities towards blacks. Shit, my own close Asian friends talk about it all the time. My own Asian girlfriend at the time would tell me how her Grandma accepted me a little more "because I was a lighter black".

Have you ever paid thought to why blacks are the literal bottom of the ladder within every culture and race in the world, historically? Have you ever paid a thought to what type of mental trauma that creates to a race of people? If you are black, no matter the part of the world (even in many parts of Africa for that matter), you are at the very bottom of the proverbial pole.

This creates a culture of self-hatred, the lack of self-love, there is not a history of people in the world that have been widely abused, and used, like the black man. I've had this conversation with my father about this, there is a definitive issue of self-hatred within the black community. This has been caused by historical abuse, which has left a lasting PTSD of sorts.

Hehe, you've never lived in a society where as an Asian man, a bank would deny you a loan, simply based on your race? Let's be real here, and I'm not alleging that Asians do not experience racism in Western culture, but I am extremely confident that the Asian community does not experience the same level of racism, systemic abuse, and economic boundaries that the African-American community does.

That letter speaks about Nigerians, I can attest this myself, my family in Nigeria, and here, are highly educated. Nigerians are some of the highest producing immigrants that enter Western society. That is not a black thing, that is a cultural reason, as Nigerian norms within culture are much different than that of African-American culture.

Hehe, you never grew up in a community where a government has targeted your people, redlining your community, refusing you the ability to get a loan based on your zip code, disenfranchising your ability to vote (watch the recent election debacle in Georgia), or forcing the segregation of schools, siphoning your people and community to schools with little investment or economic opportunities.

The letter cites other racial backgrounds that have undergone hardships in the US, without taking into account that these hardships have all been temporary, and that those hardships have been quickly corrected in order to allow those communities to prosper.

How that can be compared to a race of people shipped to a continent on boats as slaves, and for hundreds of years have had to deal with a system made in design to disenfranchise them, to hold them back, makes absolute no sense to me.



My parents never took a loan from bank once they made it out of Taiwan. They could NEVER obtain anything. That did NOT stop them from working their ways around.

They had to literally beg to borrow money from F&F and worked 16hrs a day to make sure they had means to repay those loans.

I get what you are getting from. But I NEVER grew up in a NORMAL environment (by Canadian standard)

When we were in South America, racial slurs and ridicule were the normal things in day-to-day life. That NEVER stopped me from fighting back. I just went on and proved them wrong.

By saying that "you might had it easy" or "you were lucky" don't disguise the fact that many of BLM supporters are simply LOOKING FOR EXCUSES for their miseries. I'm sorry... I have at least 3 black skin friends that I can think of right on top of my head that NEVER LOOKED for EXCUSES. And they are successful in their own rights. I can also think of at least 2 white skin friends who complain all day and their life is in misery by my own standard.

What I want to say is... don't blame this on the skin you have. Blame it on yourself to not ACTIVELY WORK AROUND it. Yes... we shouldn't have to... but that's life. I and my family had that coming the entire way in our life. We ALWAYS found a way around it. And we aren't special any way... we are just normal joes that REFUSE to take it as given.

[Xu.Vi]

I apologize for being lazy and quoting from these scholarly articles and dissertations of reputable Universities but it's important to look at documented information rather than self-experience. These statistics presented are for you to critically think as to WHY there are such big discrepancies when it comes to race...not to "prove" that they're incompetent people. Unless that's how you want to interpret it.


Differences in our society are bound to happen. And when it does, you don't simply ignore other voices and stick only to your idea. We need to EMBRACE all the different opinions and find a middle ground that would move our society as a WHOLE better.

Yes.

They are blaming all the problems that African American are facing on racial inequality. That includes, but not limited to, education, income, poverty, crime rate... so on. They go on as saying the effect of slavery, over a century after, still account for most, if not all, of it.

I really want to ask... WHAT THE FUCK do they come up with this?! Like seriously.
Income
The median net worth of White households in the U.S. in 2014 was $144,200 VS $11,200 for Black Americans. In 1983, measured in 2014 dollars, Black households had a median net worth of $12,200 VS White households of $98,700.28.

A report that followed 1,700 working-age families over the course of 25 years showed this:
median net worth of the White families examined was $90,851 compared to $5,781 for Black families. By 2009 the White families’ net worth had increased to $265,000, while the Black families’ net worth had increased to only $28,500. The Black families increased their wealth almost 5X while White families 3X...but the end result?

This isn't an indication that racism has gotten worse over 30 years, but this highlights the economical disadvantage that has been going on for decades...and whatever efforts to correct this...hasn't been working.

Education

25% of Blacks aged 25+ hold at least a bachelor's degree VS 36% of Whites.

Income

The median adjusted household income in 2014 dollars
for Whites was $71,300 VS Black Americans was $43,300.

Black patients being treated for physical or mental illness are, depending on the illness, less likely or FAR less likely than white patients to get standard and adequate care.

Employment

2015 unemployment rate for Blacks was 10.3% VS Whites 4.5%. (Those incarcerated were excluded from statistics as "unemployed")

Homeownership / Car ownership

2015 - 72% of White households owned their home VS 43% of Black households.

"Lenders targeted Black Americans for subprime mortgages,
which are riskier loans with fluctuating interest rates and higher fees; 1 in 3 Black American households earning over $200,000 were sold subprime loans, which was twice the national average. When the housing bubble burst and home values began to drop, those with subprime loans were often forced into foreclosure"

2005 report by New Jersey Citizen Action states that Black and Latino car buyers were quoted substantially higher finance rates WITH a greater undisclosed markup than comparable white car buyers. Financing markup charges for black buyers averaged 60-70% higher than white buyers.

We are born different. And that is the BEAUTY of humankind. We embrace and encourage diversity and many of the best and most successful stories in human history came out from being DIFFERENT.

Now, it has its downsides... some are born into a more "lucky" families than others. However, it is not an EXCUSE for the failure of many... whether you are black, white, yellow, brown or whatever skin/race/ethnicity you are.

Taking into consideration what was mentioned above...it seems like being an African American was a big downside in society, would you agree? When you assume their reasons for failure were excuses, you're not demonstrating your understanding of Black history. What were some excuses for the folks that lynched Black men in recent history?


I was born in a family that I consider normal to poor, at least for the majority of times of my childhood. We had very little luxury... my entire family slept on a single "bed", if we could even call a big platform made out of 2x4s and plywood with no mattress a bed and I had to pretty much deal everything on my own with my brother as my parents were too busy working their ass off. And they weren't born rich either. My dad barely finished elementary school before he left the city he was born for work and my mom was more or less the same except she did another year in what we consider here grade 7.

This is a very powerful story and is very commendable of you and your family at the same time. Thank you for sharing this. As people, I believe it's important to share and value each individuals' experiences as it shapes them to who they are.

Here's another story I'd like to share of a 25-year old male:

"He was at a crossroads, his life stretching out before him, his troubles largely behind him. He had enrolled at South Georgia Technical College, preparing to become an electrician, just like his uncles. But first, he decided, he would take a break. College could wait until the fall.

To help keep his head clear, he ran, just about every day. Off he’d go, out of the doors of his mother’s house, down the long street toward Fancy Bluff Road. Then would come the right turn onto the two-lane road lined by oak trees draped with Spanish moss.

About a mile and a half into his usual route, Ahmaud Arbery would cross the four lanes of Jekyll Island Causeway into the subdivision of Satilla Shores.

On Feb. 23, Arbery was shot to death by a father and son who told police they grabbed guns and pursued him in a pickup truck because they believed he was responsible for break-ins in their neighborhood — a black man, killed by two white men."

I can't begin to imagine what went through Ahmaud's mind during his last moments. How do you think his community and family interpret America after losing their son? Imagine your child being shot while going for a run for his skin colour.

I can run freely in most communities within greater Vancouver and won't need to fear for shit like this. Fighting for a house over a head VS fighting for your last breath. Therefore, I believe (with LOTS of bias) that Vancouver is such a safe city for a middle-class Chinese male like me...but is this entirely true for every demographic?


parents finally bought us the SNES that I and my brother had wanted it for so long (we wanted something to play with, seeing that all our classmates had NES or SNES after it came out) and that's ONLY AFTER me and my brother did great in our scheduled tests... 3 times in a role for the entire school year.

How did you feel when all your classmates had it when it came out? I think you can empathize with those that were in your position. But you can't for folks that never have the privilege to have bought their children a console.

I and my brother wouldn't get any of that and they'd donate most of their wealth away except some portion for education for future generations.

That's something that not many families can be proud to support.

So I worked my ass off. I consider myself lucky as I'm quite clever. I never had an issue with studying and had always been the very top of class for as long as I can remember. But that's because AGAIN... I WORKED MY ASS OFF. In Asia, we'd get our textbooks the first day of class. I'd finish reading EVERY ONE OF THEM by the weekend and then it's just NEVERENDING PRACTICE from there on.

Do you have to be considered lucky to be clever, have both mom and dad under the same roof, and given the support and space to study in order to become top of your class? What are some reasons you can come up with for students that don't seem to get good grades or "care" about education?

Again, had to work our ass off... to learn a new language, to fit into a new society and South America, in the different countries we have been aren't exactly the most friendly with Asian faces and we had been robbed/tortured at gunpoint by people breaking into our place in the middle of the night and taking everything.

You can understand how terrifying it is, thanks for sharing. It's unfortunate but many people wouldn't receive an experience like that well and end up developing many forms of trauma. They begin losing faith on authoritative figures.


We are all very normal folks... each with our own gift that we made SURE to make the most out of it.

It's difficult when you're using yourself as the baseline norm for folks...that quite frankly...aren't in your position in life, it makes it more difficult for you to see the flaws in society. Your mentality of "work hard work hard work hard" does have something to do with the system you're living in.

Now... with all that said... on WHAT GROUND do many people in the BLM movement say that SYSTEMATIC RACIAL DISCRIMINATION MADE IT IMPOSSBLE TO SUCCEED in their life?

Nobody said it was impossible. After reading your family story, it seems to me that your understanding of systematic racial discrimination doesn't actually align with the experiences of Black folks in NORTH AMERICA. I urge you to disassociate your personal experience before trying to understand someone else's history.

George Floyd is not an innocent man... he had MANY MANY problems with the law before. It's a tragedy what happened to him, but it was NOT the CAUSE of what happened to his life before that day. He CHOSE to have a life like that.

He didn't choose to have a life like that. America doesn't give much opportunity but to keep black folks in this "life" you speak about.

BLM wants to argue that society never gave him the chance because he is black. That's a fucking insult to millions of black people who work their butt off for a chance to succeed in their life, which many of them did.

Why would this be insulting? There could be millions of black people who work their butt off for a chance to succeed, but do they look down towards their own people? Lebron James is a huge advocate for his OWN people. He built a damn school for his people because AMERICA doesn't understand his people. The only insult here is you looking down on those that weren't GIVEN the chance.


Tl;dr
We want to eliminate any barriers/stereotyping/prejudice made to people base on their ethnicity/social/race. We do our best for people to meet the basic bar to have a normal decent life and pave ways for them to GROW from that bar onward.

I agree. Isn't a big part of this movement to eliminate what you stated? How else should we go about this if you don't think what's happening now is most impactful?

Lowering/eliminating the bar so that everyone can easily meet it just push us lower and lower each time. We as a society look to GROW... to BE BETTER. Not to always AIM for the lowest possible target.

Those that are under this "bar" are at a disadvantage...don't you think? If we MET folks at where they are, then are we not building them up from as opposed to leaving them behind? What is this "lowest" you speak of? When you've got tiers for people in society, you're part of the problem. It certainly is easy to say your statement when you're CURRENTLY above the said bar.

I truly believe that you have the right intentions and the heart for racial inequality as you concluded SO WELL in your tldr. But I urge you to try and understand the PROCESS it takes in order to get to what YOU believe America should be. It's not as clear cut as you make it to be, but the steps taken now, are the steps necessary for this brighter future you and I hope to see before our lifetime.

https://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/wsdl/files/styles/x_large/public/201801/pyramid_of_white_supremacy_campus_reform.png

[Xu.Vi]

There are so many cognitive biases going on with a lot of these replies...this is probably one of the biggest explanations as to why reading the replies on Revscene is such a headache...let alone replying to one, only to have the person reword what they're saying 5 different ways. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases

[SkinnyPupp]

I have to say, it does get tiring arguing about this subject on a forum where we will clearly not change each other's minds on the subject. As I've said before, the internet is too anonymous, it's too easy to spew tired rhetoric, or incomplex arguments. I'll reiterate, I am totally open to having a rational discussion in person with anyone here who wants to have a dialog that carries a contrary opinion here, I'll leave that olive branch out here once again.

Just have to say thanks for taking the time to post all that, knowing that most likely it will fall upon deaf ears. You have way more knowledge and way more patience than I ever would. I didn't think that anonymous letter from a "professor" was worth the 2 minutes it would take to read, but you went ahead and tore it down it piece by piece.

The 6 people you're addressing are just going to let it go right over their heads without processing it most likely, but I know there are a lot of lurkers here as well that are probably learning a lot from your posts and others too. Not everyone wants to speak up on this. Some are still learning, others just want to shit out their cognitive biases, and the rest are sorting everything out.

Even though it shouldn't be, I think this latest huge movement is making it seem "new" to a lot of people. It's up to you to decide what you find to be worth your time (I already gave up on the HK protest thread) and people shouldn't HAVE to count on you or others to explain everything to them over and over. So thanks again!

Speaking of Nigerians, man, when the news came out in China about Nigerian immigrants being sent out on the streets and not being allowed into restaurants or back into their homes, I saw a LOT of racism on twitter towards them from other African Black people... That kind of blew my mind at the time. I had no idea there was that kind of racism within Africa itself. Maybe it's just twitter though...

[SkinnyPupp]

History

CBVzdBJAqtG

[SkinnyPupp]

Also for those who think nothing is going on in Europe

https://twitter.com/JoshuaPotash/status/1271835754000453632

They better all be wearing masks :fuckthatshit:

[280ZX]

QUOTE=68style;8989747]
Perfect timing for a Perfect situation! You know what you have in common with all the black people that actually make it from the hood? Luck and timing. Should you have to be lucky and have perfect timing to succeed? Hmmm?

Do you even listen to yourself?[/QUOTE]

I respectfully disagree with this comment. This also sounds like a white privilege comment as you never experienced immigration to Canada yourself! My family and I immigrated to Canada in the mid 70's. We came to Canada with very little money and lived in my grandparents basement for 5 years before we got our first house and a 20+% mortgage. My parents had really shitty jobs. My dad was a waiter for a Chinese restaurant and worked every day for years and a second job to help keep the family afloat. During that time my dad had surgery for a ulcer he had and was out of work for awhile. We struggled alot during that time. My mother worked 6 days a week (sometimes 7 days when needed) as a dishwasher for 30 years in a Chinese restaurant. You talk about luck and timing, more like working there asses of just to survive. For a long time, I never had any new clothes as they were either patched up or second hand clothes given by family. I wouldn't call ourselves "luck and timing"(as you stated) for our family during that time. There are similar stories from other immigrants during that era. No money, sol. So we had to work our asses of. There were no handouts back then!

[Hondaracer]

That wasn’t work ethic or determination to succeed. That was your privilege. #Sarcasm

What I find frustrating about these arguments such as Hehe is proposing and the above is that there is an assumption that success based on hard work and privilege are mutually exclusive.

My grandparents had a similar story as above. Immigrated in the 60’s to Canada and not only did they have no money in their pockets, they actually owed back payments to Canadian immigration.

Both of them worked their asses off, neither spoke English, and they made a life for 4 children from virtually nothing. By the early 90’s both spoke perfect English, had built and owned multiple homes and created lives for my dad and his brothers which in turn, translated to the lives myself and all their kids live today.

Besides the colour of their skin they benefited zero from any perceived “privilege” and frankly I’m sure the general demographics of the time in the lower mainland were overwhelmingly white. So coming from a white country, into another white city, not speaking the language, where was their privilege? Because they were not of a clear minority or native they could avoid the police? They didn’t have time to get into trouble. And please, please don’t tell me their privilege was being born into a white nation or some other spin like that. Most of their young lives until they came to Canada they lived under the threat of war and covering their windows so bombers wouldn’t flatten their homes.

Success based on hard work and determination and “privilege” is NOT mutually exclusive.

It is definitely a different time these days and I fully acknowledge that white preference and privilege is a very real thing (although frankly I have never been important enough to believe I ever got preferential treatment socially or in the work force due to the colour of my skin) however I can’t say the same with interactions with law enforcement etc. Because frankly I’ve never had an experience with them which I wouldn’t have deemed fair.

[Hondaracer]

Just have to say thanks for taking the time to post all that, knowing that most likely it will fall upon deaf ears. You have way more knowledge and way more patience than I ever would. I didn't think that anonymous letter from a "professor" was worth the 2 minutes it would take to read, but you went ahead and tore it down it piece by piece.

The 6 people you're addressing are just going to let it go right over their heads without processing it most likely, but I know there are a lot of lurkers here as well that are probably learning a lot from your posts and others too. Not everyone wants to speak up on this. Some are still learning, others just want to shit out their cognitive biases, and the rest are sorting everything out.

Even though it shouldn't be, I think this latest huge movement is making it seem "new" to a lot of people. It's up to you to decide what you find to be worth your time (I already gave up on the HK protest thread) and people shouldn't HAVE to count on you or others to explain everything to them over and over. So thanks again!

Speaking of Nigerians, man, when the news came out in China about Nigerian immigrants being sent out on the streets and not being allowed into restaurants or back into their homes, I saw a LOT of racism on twitter towards them from other African Black people... That kind of blew my mind at the time. I had no idea there was that kind of racism within Africa itself. Maybe it's just twitter though...

It’s nice you let Mike there take on an actual Informed, well thought out argument then you piggy back his post to make these little passive aggressive jabs at people.

You’re a clown.

[1337]

That wasn’t work ethic or determination to succeed. That was your privilege.

Was that a reply to 280ZX? You'll need to elaborate on how working 2 jobs for 6-7days in a poor working class family is considered a lack of work ethic or how that would be considered a privilege.

Here's what I've heard in the last couple pages about success. Hard work and sacrifice are not factors for success. Sit back kids, a little bit of luck and the right timing and you'll be successful. FailFish

This thread has become unreadable.

[Hondaracer]

Was that a reply to 280ZX? You'll need to elaborate on how working 2 jobs for 6-7days in a poor working class family is considered a lack of work ethic or how that would be considered a privilege.

Here's what I've heard in the last couple pages about success. Hard work and sacrifice are not factors for success. Sit back kids, a little bit of luck and the right timing and you'll be successful. FailFish

This thread has become unreadable.

It was sarcasm. I expanded on it further

[westopher]

I just don't get how people equate their lives being difficult, then working hard for success to equate to everyone else's situation. There's plenty of people who worked harder than your immigrant parents and never got successful, or maybe never had the chance. Life is a series of an unfathomable amount of decisions, made by you AND the others around you that dictate what happens. Life is a game of chance, and if you believe you are fully in control of what happens you are completely delusional.

A little empathy to understand how things that are out of peoples control can dictate their situations isn't that much to ask for.

[SkinnyPupp]

It’s nice you let Mike there take on an actual Informed, well thought out argument then you piggy back his post to make these little passive aggressive jabs at people.

You’re a clown.
I decide what's worth my time and what's not, as does Mike. I deemed the HK thread not worthy of my time and effort any more, nor did I think that anonymous letter filled with logical fallacies was worth it.

Mike didn't have to respond to it either, because anyone with functioning logic can see it for what it is. He still deserves some props for pointing it all out bit by bit though, because the person posting it actually bolded the worst parts thinking he was making some great point. That shows how off someone can be.

I'm finished with the arguing and commentary. I'm done with all the negativity online. I don't even respond to you guys anymore, I don't even bother with the fail button anymore.

I'll continue posting news and posts that I think might be helpful, and interacting with the friendlier side of revscene.

[underscore]

The term white privilege, to me anyways, is a bit of a misnomer that people get hung up on. From my understanding it's just being at the level everybody should be at, where you have the possibility to succeed (or fail) based purely on what you choose to do and not what you look like. It doesn't mean to imply you're some 1%er getting handys from models every day. It does not mean life is easy, it does not guarantee success or freedom from difficulty, it simply means not facing additional difficulty based on your skin colour.

"The disadvantages of people who are non-white" doesn't really roll off the tongue though.

So coming from a white country, into another white city, not speaking the language, where was their privilege?

Their "privilege" was even having the possibility to do what they did when they got here. If they were black and trying to do the same thing at the same time it would have been far more difficult (maybe not even possible) for them to be as successful as they were able to become.

From: https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/racial-segregation-of-black-people-in-canada

Between 1949 and 1967, there were Canadian entries in the American-published Green Book, the travelling guide for Black motorists that identified places that welcomed Black patrons.

I would imagine things would have been a lot worse for them to be in a country where they don't speak the language and they need to use a book written in that language just to try to move beyond whatever city they landed in without being assaulted.

[birddog3k]

I decide what's worth my time and what's not, as does Mike. I deemed the HK thread not worthy of my time and effort any more, nor did I think that anonymous letter filled with logical fallacies was worth it.

Mike didn't have to respond to it either, because anyone with functioning logic can see it for what it is. He still deserves some props for pointing it all out bit by bit though, because the person posting it actually bolded the worst parts thinking he was making some great point. That shows how off someone can be.

I'm finished with the arguing and commentary. I'm done with all the negativity online. I don't even respond to you guys anymore, I don't even bother with the fail button anymore.

I'll continue posting news and posts that I think might be helpful, and interacting with the friendlier side of revscene.

War is peace
Freedom is slavery
Ignorance is strength

[Hehe]

I just don't get how people equate their lives being difficult, then working hard for success to equate to everyone else's situation. There's plenty of people who worked harder than your immigrant parents and never got successful, or maybe never had the chance. Life is a series of an unfathomable amount of decisions, made by you AND the others around you that dictate what happens. Life is a game of chance, and if you believe you are fully in control of what happens you are completely delusional.

A little empathy to understand how things that are out of peoples control can dictate their situations isn't that much to ask for.

I believe the problem is what is considered successful?

By BLM movement, having a roof and able to put food on the table seems to be a privilege. Their argument goes so far that "if we aren't having it, neither should you because you are enjoying the white privilege".

Here it seems that the argument is that working hard and making all the sacrifices won't make you a multi-millionaire.

No shit... I've already said it. Hardworking does not GUARANTEE success.

Please don't get confused between CAUSE and RESULT.

In order to get to a result, it ALWAYS takes multiple causes.

Hardworking is one of the MANY CAUSES for becoming rich, but not the ONLY cause.

Poverty among Black is a result of many CAUSES. One of those causes is in fact RACISM. But my argument goes that RACISM by itself does NOT guarantee a miserable outcome of a black person's life. There is also the EXTREMELY HIGH percentage of Black people raised without a father... at least in the US. Why? Because their assistance program literally encourages one to be raised by a single mom.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVxtNoOk3iE

Many want to put RACISM as THE cause of all the suffering and inequality in the society. They also want to the action of ONE (well, 4, but you get the idea) police officer on racism and frame the ENTIRE police force as racist and corrupt.

One of the most useful and important lessons I learned in life... which I learned when I l was into magic tricks is about how to keep the FOCUS of your audience from THE angle you desire. The whole trick doesn't make sense when seeing from any other angle. Thus, in order to NOT get tricked, all one has to do is to look AWAY from the focus plane, and ask yourself one very simple question "Why did they want my attention right there?"

This simple trick (no pun intended) has helped me in many occasions to make a proper choice.

So, what I ask is simple... THINK about IT.

Why are they emphasizing "RACISM" so much? Who is trying to keep the focus there? How do they benefit by having our attention there? Because when other reasonings go into the equation, the whole argument falls apart and there is ALWAYS a simple reason. In magic, we want the audience to believe it is in fact magic. Here? I'd let you be the judge.

I am not saying that racism doesn't exist and doesn't matter. I've encountered it first hand in many occasions in my life. We NEED to eradicate that out of our society. But the way BLM is doing will only bring more conflicts than it solves.

[Hehe]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efeVzpMtt1Q

[Xu.Vi]

I'm going to leave this here for folks that think they can benefit off it. If it seems like too much work, not interesting, stupid, a waste of time, or something not useful...then keeps on with your life.

Rarely are people "raised" in a way without doing EXTENSIVE critical thinking upon themselves can they articulate what's going on in our world today. You can't just pick up a true understanding of the situation currently without educating yourselves on it. If you truly understood and empathize for what's been going on, you wouldn't be comparing your own anecdotal life experiences with others...that you seem to assume quite a lot about. \\

I was privileged enough to choose the city I want my future kids to grow up in and be educated in. I am privileged enough to get an easy pass when I was pulled over on both my motorcycle and car. I am privileged to the extent that I can walk around the store with my hands in my pockets without being assumed of stealing. I'm privileged to say I've only been racially attacked only 3 times within my lifetime. I can post these on my social media without fear of retribution. I can feel a sense of belonging in every community I step foot in. I am so privileged that I can walk around my neighbourhood during midnight without people being afraid of me.

I know not a lot of us here are wanting to be educated and is probably a reason why there's such a resistance. It's pointless for many to come into this thread with the hope to provide insight that may not otherwise be known. At the end of the day, we're all going to logoff our computers doing what we believe in, or not doing anything because we don't think it affects us personally.

https://sites.lsa.umich.edu/inclusive-teaching/2017/08/29/an-instructors-guide-to-understanding-privilege/

[Hehe]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7YmjWW9tx4

[Manic!]

White people with guns and bats protecting a statue and threatening a reporter. It reminds me of an episode of the sopranos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ExgX7Hb2XU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCuydzt836M

[320icar]

How the fuck is it that guy can stand there silently, be assaulted, have his personal property vandalized and HE is the one removed by police officers. I understand the logic of diffusing a situation and in that sense it’s the right call, but fuck off he is not the aggressor.

[westopher]

But my argument goes that RACISM by itself does NOT guarantee a miserable outcome of a black person's life.
Literally not one person on the planet is arguing against you on that.
There are LOTS of successful black people. We have seen them. What people are trying to explain here is that:


If you are a black, you deal with a series of circumstances throughout your life that a white person IS MUCH LESS LIKELY have to deal with such as,
People believing you are a criminal with no basis
People believing you are a threat with no basis
Police interactions being far more dangerous
People expecting you to have a lack of education with no basis
Being passed over for a job or promotion due to race

These circumstances make it more difficult to be successful as they put you into dangerous, threatening, or adverse situations.

Not one person in here believes it's impossible for a black person to be successful. Not one believes there are no black people with excellent lives. Don't act like that's what BLM is inferring either.

[Hondaracer]

unironically My wife started watching “Dear White People” on Netflix and I somewhat begrudgingly followed along thinking it was going to be some liberal propaganda BS

However it is incredibly well written and acted (honestly one of the better Netflix shows I can remember watching in the last while in terms of acting and writing) and it might sound like hyperbole but the entire show does an excellent job at explaining many of these aspects of privilege and whatnot in a fictional setting. Highly recommend to give it a go even if it doesn’t seem like your cup of tea.

[birddog3k]

To the people citing income disparity as evidence of racism, does this chart suggest to you that asian people are suppressing white, hispanic, and black people?

If no, then why is there a difference?

https://www.pgpf.org/sites/default/files/income-varies-widely-across-racial-and-ethnic-groups-in-the-United-States-chart.gif


Literally not one person on the planet is arguing against you on that.
There are LOTS of successful black people. We have seen them. What people are trying to explain here is that:


If you are a black, you deal with a series of circumstances throughout your life that a white person IS MUCH LESS LIKELY have to deal with such as,
People believing you are a criminal with no basis
People believing you are a threat with no basis
Police interactions being far more dangerous
People expecting you to have a lack of education with no basis
Being passed over for a job or promotion due to race

These circumstances make it more difficult to be successful as they put you into dangerous, threatening, or adverse situations.

Not one person in here believes it's impossible for a black person to be successful. Not one believes there are no black people with excellent lives. Don't act like that's what BLM is inferring either.

Let's say for argument sake that what you said is 100% correct. This is straight from the BLM website:


Campaign Goals
1. Vigorously engage our communities in the electoral process:
Millions of Black Americans are repressed within the democratic process, yet data shows Black voters tipped the balance in the 2018 midterm elections. Moving towards 2020, we seek to increase the power of our voices and votes.

2. Educate our constituents about candidates and the issues that impact us most:
We will amplify and do a deep dive into the issues that affect our communities most and hold our candidates accountable on these issues.

3. Promote voter registration among Generation Z, the Black community, and our allies:
Demographic shifts means that in the 2020 election, non-whites will account for a third of voters and one in ten voters will be members of Generation Z. We will encourage and provide resources for those seeking to vote.

Campaign Focus
BLM’s #WhatMatters2020 will focus on the following issues:
Racial Injustice
Police Brutality
Criminal Justice Reform
Black Immigration
Economic Injustice
LGBTQIA+ and Human Rights
Environmental Conditions
Voting Rights & Suppression
Healthcare
Government Corruption
Education
Commonsense Gun Laws


As you can see, the most important priority is to get people to vote.

When you click the DONATE button, it takes you to Actblue. You can test this out by hovering your mouse over the DONATE button and looking at the link.

There is a website called opensecrets.org. This is their purpose in their own words: The Center for Responsive Politics is the nation's premier research group tracking money in politics and its effect on elections and public policy.

If you search for actblue you get this: https://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/expenditures.php?cmte=c00401224&cycle=2012

here are their campaign contributions:

Rank Vendor/Recipient Total Expenditures
1 Bernie 2020 $186,780,034
2 Biden for President $119,253,857
3 Elizabeth Warren Presidential Exploratory Cmte $93,478,053
4 Pete for America $78,100,960
5 Democratic Congressional Campaign Cmte $55,684,603
6 Amy for America $43,167,720
7 Friends of Andrew Yang $31,705,527
8 Democratic Senatorial Campaign Cmte $31,067,413
9 Democratic National Cmte $29,924,707
10 Amy McGrath for Senate $29,558,536

Donating to BLM means you're donating to the Dems. The problem with this, combined with the list of campaign focuses from the BLM website is that they do not tackle the main issues hurting black lives in America. There's no discussion on the high number of black kids growing up without fathers. In fact, there's no specific things they want to accomplish except de-fund the police.



#DefundThePolice
May 30, 2020

Enough is enough.

Our pain, our cries, and our need to be seen and heard resonate throughout this entire country.

We demand acknowledgment and accountability for the devaluation and dehumanization of Black life at the hands of the police.

We call for radical, sustainable solutions that affirm the prosperity of Black lives.

George Floyd’s violent death was a breaking point — an all too familiar reminder that, for Black people, law enforcement doesn’t protect or save our lives. They often threaten and take them.

Right now, Minneapolis and cities across our country are on fire, and our people are hurting — the violence against Black bodies felt in the ongoing mass disobedience, all while we grapple with a pandemic that is disproportionately affecting, infecting, and killing us.

We call for an end to the systemic racism that allows this culture of corruption to go unchecked and our lives to be taken.

We call for a national defunding of police. We demand investment in our communities and the resources to ensure Black people not only survive, but thrive. If you’re with us, add your name to the petition right now and help us spread the word.


How do you defund the police and keep public safety a priority? How do you account for all the 1000s of different cities and different police departments? Why is there never any specificity?

Everything BLM does seems like it's an attempt to sway public opinion and get hashtags trending instead of looking at the facts and solving the issue. It's all an appeal to emotion. There's no use of facts and statistics.

Racism exists, no doubt about it, but the way you solve it is not by doing any of the things BLM and the Dems are doing / want to do.

[westopher]

They have 2 choices at the moment. Do you think voting dems is not an appealing prospect for black voters in comparison to a government that’s putting right wing Supreme Court judges, calling nazi rally attendees “very fine people” and shutting down voting stations in predominantly black neighborhoods?
It’s a two party system, and pissing on the forest fire is better than throwing a match into it.

[birddog3k]

They have 2 choices at the moment. Do you think voting dems is not an appealing prospect for black voters in comparison to a government that’s putting right wing Supreme Court judges, calling nazi rally attendees “very fine people” and shutting down voting stations in predominantly black neighborhoods?
It’s a two party system, and pissing on the forest fire is better than throwing a match into it.


Right wing Supreme court judges is no better or worse than left wing judges. It's the same. This point is irrelevant unless you think that right wing ideas are bad - if you do I'd like to ask which ideas?

Second point is fair - part of being in that position is having character because you're looked up to by millions of people, millions of kids. He's said and done things that he shouldn't have, that's for sure.

Shutting down voting stations in predominantly back neighborhoods - I'm not aware of this but if you have sources I'll learn.

The thing is, prior to the pandemic, the US had the lowest unemployment for blacks in history and all time stock market highs, even years after everyone was saying that it would crash. I remember in 2015 people were saying buy gold because the market's going to bottom out. It never did. These are factual results. This was a result of things Trump has done, namely lowering the corporate tax rate. Lowering taxes isn't something the Dems would ever do. They need as much taxes as possible to implement as many of their (shitty) social programs.

I don't support either side and I'm actually interested to see what's going to happen regardless of who wins. However, I have a feeling that the income disparity is going to get worse over time.

We're living in an age where you have technology that will allow you to maximize your earning potential. I know (white) people who are teaching their kids how to code. These kids are going to be better off than kids growing up without that skill. This kind of education is what's required to help everyone from poverty.

[welfare]

Speaking of Nigerians, man, when the news came out in China about Nigerian immigrants being sent out on the streets and not being allowed into restaurants or back into their homes, I saw a LOT of racism on twitter towards them from other African Black people... That kind of blew my mind at the time. I had no idea there was that kind of racism within Africa itself. Maybe it's just twitter though...

So it never occurred to you that black people could despise other blacks due to historical issues?
Just like Blackfoot and Cree, or Chinese and Taiwanese, or Croatians and Serbians, or any other race on the planet?
Good Lord that's revealing.

[welfare]

https://youtu.be/OMmrWurAStw

The scapegoat of accountability through this narrative of 'white supremacy', largely perpetuated by liberals, isn't empathetic at all. It's actually quite cruel and self serving.
The media's silence and denial makes them complicit in, what equates to, a genocide.

[mikemhg]

Just have to say thanks for taking the time to post all that, knowing that most likely it will fall upon deaf ears. You have way more knowledge and way more patience than I ever would. I didn't think that anonymous letter from a "professor" was worth the 2 minutes it would take to read, but you went ahead and tore it down it piece by piece.

The 6 people you're addressing are just going to let it go right over their heads without processing it most likely, but I know there are a lot of lurkers here as well that are probably learning a lot from your posts and others too. Not everyone wants to speak up on this. Some are still learning, others just want to shit out their cognitive biases, and the rest are sorting everything out.

Even though it shouldn't be, I think this latest huge movement is making it seem "new" to a lot of people. It's up to you to decide what you find to be worth your time (I already gave up on the HK protest thread) and people shouldn't HAVE to count on you or others to explain everything to them over and over. So thanks again!

Speaking of Nigerians, man, when the news came out in China about Nigerian immigrants being sent out on the streets and not being allowed into restaurants or back into their homes, I saw a LOT of racism on twitter towards them from other African Black people... That kind of blew my mind at the time. I had no idea there was that kind of racism within Africa itself. Maybe it's just twitter though...

I appreciate that Skinny, I really do. Xu.Vi, among others in this thread have given some great rebuttals and breakdowns, it's excellent some of you folks took the time to break some of these issues down, and continue to do so.

You're right, while I am exhausted dealing with these same arguments, a friend of mine said something similar to what you have. He essentially said to not just give up providing knowledge and information to people you meet on these subjects, it may fall on deaf ears for some, but for others in might plant a seed of thought, maybe he's right. I like where your mind is going with that.

Oh yes, Candice Owens posted again, the right's favorite minstrel :lol

That video posted of that journalist and those white nationalists is illuminating, and is an example of what we've been saying here. The collaboration of the police with that group of people is also quite telling, I really stand by my comments, the Civil War has not ended in the US, I see some very dark days ahead in that country.

[SkinnyPupp]

https://twitter.com/JoshuaPotash/status/1272225953805205505

https://twitter.com/erikaishii/status/1272331783518871552

I'll keep posting footage of these protests, because most media won't unless something is on fire

[Xu.Vi]

I work with the vulnerable and underprivileged demographics full-time and it's so disheartening to hear and see the things I come across. Just this afternoon I pulled over on Hastings because a man was laying semi-conscious and obvious signs of nodding off. The first thing he said to me was how grateful he was for taking the time to check up and call 911. When I acknowledged it, he said to me that not many people care for him or his people and it means the world to him to know he's valued as a person. He told me he has thoughts of suicide and planned to jump off a bridge because his wife died and had no one to connect with because his friends only stole from him.

Does this man need to work harder in order to get his life together? I see a man that has been oppressed by the system, people around him, and privileged fucks. Imagine walking down a neighbourhood getting looks, getting cussed at, called the cops on to leave a shelter and told to go home (what home?), or even have a cop spray "goof juice" in your pack of cigarettes after being checked for no reason other than staying in a tent (my neighbour, an RCMP officer of 2 years was telling me about how he has fun with the homeless in POCO whenever he gets a call).


This man doesn't put this so-called "blame" on the society...instead, he chose to live with all the pain because HeHe believes it's all up to the individual, right? But "see, it'S nOt SoCiEtY's pRoBlEm tHeNnN" ---- right. when our society continues to have these perceptions, they have no control over it, but they do have control in blaming themselves...putting themselves down...etc. Think about times where you were bullied...how did you feel?

As with mikeg, I'm more than happy to talk about this in person over a coffee. Better yet...I'm more than happy to take 2 hours out of my weekend for as many weekends we want to go for to have a FREE class on sharing my knowledge and hopefully engage in dialog about privilege, systematic oppression, our DTES, mental health, First Nations people, Black Americans, substance use, or poverty. All I ask for is your commitment, time, and an open mind...shoot me a private message. I've been doing my research on the above topics as a graduate student with high hopes on finding steps closer to solving the issues we've got, so I'm more than happy to share...and even learn more about how some of you come to your own conclusions.

[Hehe]

I work with the vulnerable and underprivileged demographics full-time and it's so disheartening to hear and see the things I come across. Just this afternoon I pulled over on Hastings because a man was laying semi-conscious and obvious signs of nodding off. The first thing he said to me was how grateful he was for taking the time to check up and call 911. When I acknowledged it, he said to me that not many people care for him or his people and it means the world to him to know he's valued as a person. He told me he has thoughts of suicide and planned to jump off a bridge because his wife died and had no one to connect with because his friends only stole from him.

Does this man need to work harder in order to get his life together? I see a man that has been oppressed by the system, people around him, and privileged fucks. Imagine walking down a neighbourhood getting looks, getting cussed at, called the cops on to leave a shelter and told to go home (what home?), or even have a cop spray "goof juice" in your pack of cigarettes after being checked for no reason other than staying in a tent (my neighbour, an RCMP officer of 2 years was telling me about how he has fun with the homeless in POCO whenever he gets a call).


This man doesn't put this so-called "blame" on the society...instead, he chose to live with all the pain because HeHe believes it's all up to the individual, right? But "see, it'S nOt SoCiEtY's pRoBlEm tHeNnN" ---- right. when our society continues to have these perceptions, they have no control over it, but they do have control in blaming themselves...putting themselves down...etc. Think about times where you were bullied...how did you feel?

As with mikeg, I'm more than happy to talk about this in person over a coffee. Better yet...I'm more than happy to take 2 hours out of my weekend for as many weekends we want to go for to have a FREE class on sharing my knowledge and hopefully engage in dialog about privilege, systematic oppression, our DTES, mental health, First Nations people, Black Americans, substance use, or poverty. All I ask for is your commitment, time, and an open mind...shoot me a private message. I've been doing my research on the above topics as a graduate student with high hopes on finding steps closer to solving the issues we've got, so I'm more than happy to share...and even learn more about how some of you come to your own conclusions.

I guess you are in similar field as my wife. My life works with many underprivileged kids. :thumbsup:

I've said it before in my posts and I'd say it again.

All the miseries in life, whether one's black or white or whatever... happen because of reasons.

The person who you shown as an example, his wife passing might have caused some severe mental shock or he simply gave up. Something might had happened when he was younger... again... many many reasons could be behind it.

BUT... those are EXTREME cases.

For able bodies... the hundreds and hundreds of people that I saw them running 100mts like Usain Bolts while looting, I really can't say the same.

You are going to argue that my argument doesn't apply to everyone. I agree.

But for regular folks, a young healthy dude/dudette, if he/she is willing to work, live within their means and PUSH hard to DEVELOP (as in continuing in education, learning of any kind... etc) a career, it's REALLY HARD for me to believe that RACISM is ALL that stand in their way to becoming successful. And let me actually DEFINE "successful" here... I mean just a healthy financial and social balance where you can have some normal life.

Instead, what happens? My wife was down in SoCal for a fellowship that specializes in developing tools and guidelines to help minorities (mainly Latinos and Black) in distress to get back to their life. So I heard some cases she worked on. There were so many of them, who think WAY beyond their means. And they FELT that working in basic jobs are a WASTE of time because a pair of nice kicks would be a week worth of salary.

The sense of ENTITLEMENT was INSANE. They only see the blings and nice things in other people's life, but don't want to deal with all the HARDWORK that's prerequisite to achieve that. And when you ask them why aren't they working... they just tell you that they'd rather collect food stamps and other subsidies because the money they make at work gives them about the same. Like... wtf?! Never in their mind crossed that by working their way, and continue to develop a career plan, they can go from a basic wage job to something much greater.

I can't agree with BLM, besides that, I feel it's very politically motivated, because of this very ENTITLEMENT that I feel. And yet they blame it ALL on racism. Like if racism didn't exist, they would be all rolling in RRs and Ferraris. So... they feel that it's JUSTIFIABLE to loot... to break havoc in the society so they can GET what they want.

Do you get what I'm going with this?

I know there will always be those who can't make it in our society. That's why we make an assistance program to make sure they get the help they need. But there has to be a limit. What's being asked in BLM is the SAME HORSESHIT that the great Peronismo sold in Argentina. They want the fish, but don't want to learn and neither do the work of fishing... they just want to have the filet nicely cut there waiting for them.

And you know what happened when that took off? It's neverending process of blank cheques after blank cheques. First it's Black... then it's Latino, and then the Asians... finally even the white would get it because if you are giving money to everyone, it's only FAIR to give it to EVERYBODY. And by that time... the Black would think of asking something else and the cycle CONTINUES.

That's the HORSESHIT liberals want to sell in this BLM movement. They want the black to vote for them because they are the most SENSITIVE to the word "RACISM". If the black people can't see that BLM is nothing but a movement to use them as pawns, I really feel sorry for them.

ASK FOR FISHING COURSES FOR EVERYONE. Not FISHES.

Read all the requests of BLM and let me know which one is a fishing course? Nop... they just want to create a system where it's easier for them to legally get fish handed to them.

Tl;dr
There will always be cases where no matter what one does, he/she can't get out of it. But for the majority of people, if they are willing to work and continue to develop... a normal life is always within reach, with a CHANCE to have GREAT success.

[bobbinka]

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/orly.gif

[underscore]

Fox quoted a Reddit post while talking about the autonomous zone in Seattle, which they've also been caught faking photos of. What they failed to realize is the comment on Reddit is a slightly modified quote from Monty Python and the Holy Grail :lol

https://twitter.com/DailyCaller/status/1271624335212654594

[Xu.Vi]

I guess you are in similar field as my wife. My life works with many underprivileged kids. :thumbsup:

I spent 4 years working with children diagnosed on the spectrum as a junior behavioural consultant, behavioural interventionist, and an educational assistant. Each and every one of the students demonstrated so much talent, passion, and love towards their interests. A shocking amount of their parents/guardians unfortunately don't see what I see. Some parents ignore their interests and drill in the idea of education, some refuse to accept their child can't ever integrate into society as their "typical" peers will, and there are some that refuse to believe their child is on the spectrum. If our society integrated folks on the spectrum, their overall life experience would be far greater than what it is now...but in reality...it's not. We're told to work hard, go to school, get a good paying job...etc. Would you consider folks on the spectrum less able-bodied an extreme case and happened because of reasons (our society believes its either age, genetics, or vaccines [lmfao]). Do you think if our society changed the way we perceive, understand, and appropriately integrated these folks, they would have a better overall life?

I don't want you attempting to answer that question if you're not autistic, your child(ren) isn't autistic, your wife isn't autistic. I can't imagine what must go on mentally for these folks, let alone try and understand what our society can do for them. But what I can do is to better inform myself (minor in learning disabilities as well as early childhood learning) of what ASD is, try and connect with my students to their level of comfort (ie. don't give eye contact if they're uncomfortable, avoid long sentences, remove my "expectations" of a typical child,...list goes on).

Before you continue reading...please...stop sharing the stories of the people around you. I'd much rather speak with your parents, wife, or the black friends you've got if I wanted to create dialog. Reflect on why I ask this of you. You sharing your stories of the people around you do not "back up" this DISCUSSION because you've never lived it. One theme that does come up a lot in your posts is your disagreement and inability to empathize with the societal issues we've got going on. I get a sense that it's because you've never lived through it (living through your friends and family doesn't really demonstrate understanding towards a topic BUT, you ARE empathizing for them!!!!!).


All the miseries in life, whether one's black or white or whatever... happen because of reasons

Yes. The Chinese were coming to Vancouver by the boat loads during the labour crisis in the early 1900's. What do you think the major reason was?

By 1920's, Canada encouraged Chinese people to ship over opium...eventually, Canada made a tariff for opium...taxing nearly 30% of what came in. What do you think the major reason was?

Once the labour crisis settled...the headtax came in...and $$$$ per head started going up to crazy amounts...subsequently, riots in Chinatown were happening. During this time, the Chinese imprisoned were far greater than most ethnicities for their possession of opium. Why?

The reason???? Because they came off a boat and worked their fucking assess off to be either segregated in the city, hiding, or in prison.

The person who you shown as an example, his wife passing might have caused some severe mental shock or he simply gave up. Something might had happened when he was younger... again... many many reasons could be behind it.

In counselling practice, we avoid working with the clients' diagnoses and will always see them as an individual person rather than a DSM textbook. You're very fortunate that your wife is with you at this moment. You seem to recall very clearly about the hardships you went through as a child...and it seems to me you overcame them so well. Your courage and drive seem to be a tool for you to tell others to suck it up (maybe you did...and it worked! wonderful). I can't tell an autistic child to suck it up and go into this place we called society and ADAPT. We need to meet them on their level.

BUT... those are EXTREME cases.

? Should we ignore the extreme cases because we can let a few off the bridge...? Too extreme to handle? Let them be (or die)?

For able bodies... the hundreds and hundreds of people that I saw them running 100mts like Usain Bolts while looting, I really can't say the same.

Able-bodied =/= able-minded

You are going to argue that my argument doesn't apply to everyone. I agree.


I've never considered our discussion an argument. If you feel that, i'm sorry.


But for regular folks, a young healthy dude/dudette, if he/she is willing to work, live within their means and PUSH hard to DEVELOP (as in continuing in education, learning of any kind... etc) a career, it's REALLY HARD for me to believe that RACISM is ALL that stand in their way to becoming successful. And let me actually DEFINE "successful" here... I mean just a healthy financial and social balance where you can have some normal life.

Successful: Healthy financial and social balance that equates to "some" normal life.
--> This is how you defined your OWN success. When you're applying a self-created definition of success upon others, you're failing to realize how biased this is (and how it actually varies person to person).

My definition of successful is being able to provide my knowledge, support, empathy, and experience for folks that don't have my type of privileges...in order for them to live a life where they meet at the minimal 3/5 levels of the hierarchy of needs. How do we get there? That's going to differ for everyone.

Instead, what happens? My wife was down in SoCal for a fellowship that specializes in developing tools and guidelines to help minorities (mainly Latinos and Black) in distress to get back to their life. So I heard some cases she worked on. There were so many of them, who think WAY beyond their means. And they FELT that working in basic jobs are a WASTE of time because a pair of nice kicks would be a week worth of salary.

Your wife. Not you. If I were your wife...I wouldn't be too happy hearing that sentence. If she agrees with you, she's definitely in the wrong line of work. Trust me. We have no room for folks with your type of mentality. It is counterintuitive. If you reside in Vancouver, I'm more than happy to spend a couple hours in the DTES with you -- for a walk to hand out some water and burgers. The things you'll learn and hear...you won't in your privileged group of friends. My question is, will you believe them? Why or why not?

You're AGAIN money managing for them. You think your way is the best way. You know the solution to it all. You know what they NEED to do. I've done numerous research papers, self-reflections, community work, volunteer work, and outreach WITH THE PEOPLE AFFECTED...and I STILL can't find an easy solution (big part being our government and a bigger part...the SOCIETY). I wish it was as easy as you make it out to be...because I'd have done that years ago without challenging greater education. I'm in it not only to be a voice for them...but to be one of many that WILL make a difference for their life and our future. (future meaning: children that get touched by their mum and dads, get sexually penetrated at age of 12 because of their parents or relatives, get lied to...abused..sworn at...by their "pimps", neglected children...). You can't relate to that...but you're assuming their responsibilities as a citizen in our society. You seem to know the answers for them. Oh wait, these are extreme cases right?

95% of the females in the DTES have endured and survived through 1 or more of those either on a single occasion or over a long period of time. BTW, i'm not even mentioning their adult experiences.



The sense of ENTITLEMENT was INSANE. They only see the blings and nice things in other people's life, but don't want to deal with all the HARDWORK that's prerequisite to achieve that. And when you ask them why aren't they working... they just tell you that they'd rather collect food stamps and other subsidies because the money they make at work gives them about the same. Like... wtf?! Never in their mind crossed that by working their way, and continue to develop a career plan, they can go from a basic wage job to something much greater.


You're also emphasizing your own level of entitlement by saying this. You make it sound like they want to be looked and perceived like you mention.


I can't agree with BLM, besides that, I feel it's very politically motivated, because of this very ENTITLEMENT that I feel. And yet they blame it ALL on racism. Like if racism didn't exist, they would be all rolling in RRs and Ferraris. So... they feel that it's JUSTIFIABLE to loot... to break havoc in the society so they can GET what they want.


The people fighting for BLM don't even have political strength. You and I are so fortunate to have this privilege. I choose to use my privilege as a voice for those that are often times unheard, misunderstood, or ignored.

Do you get what I'm going with this?


I'm still getting a sense you're not trying to critically think. Rather, you're replying to prove a point that they're lazy and undeserving and if you had to work hard, so should they. Correct me if i'm wrong...it's late right now.


I know there will always be those who can't make it in our society. That's why we make an assistance program to make sure they get the help they need. But there has to be a limit. What's being asked in BLM is the SAME HORSESHIT that the great Peronismo sold in Argentina. They want the fish, but don't want to learn and neither do the work of fishing... they just want to have the filet nicely cut there waiting for them.

The process in the assistance programs are bullshit because it's a bandaid for the harsh reality. You can't say you know, because you've not once demonstrated the willingness to hear these people out. You continue to create assumptions and expectations. Correct me if I've misinterpreted you.

And you know what happened when that took off? It's neverending process of blank cheques after blank cheques. First it's Black... then it's Latino, and then the Asians... finally even the white would get it because if you are giving money to everyone, it's only FAIR to give it to EVERYBODY. And by that time... the Black would think of asking something else and the cycle CONTINUES.


Bruh. Your understanding and mentality is also a cycle that our society needs to break. I hope one day you will.


That's the HORSESHIT liberals want to sell in this BLM movement. They want the black to vote for them because they are the most SENSITIVE to the word "RACISM". If the black people can't see that BLM is nothing but a movement to use them as pawns, I really feel sorry for them.

You'll feel sorry for them because they're pawns, but refuse to feel sorry for what's been going on to them now.

ASK FOR FISHING COURSES FOR EVERYONE. Not FISHES.

Educate yourself on these topics before replying to topics you suddenly become passionate about. Ask yourself if it's fueled by frustration, anger, empathy, misunderstanding, or to understand. I can give you a rod but you ain't gonna know what to do with it if you're not taught how to fish. If you're not willing to learn, then what you say or think...isn't truly a reflection of what's going on in reality.

Tl;dr
There will always be cases where no matter what one does, he/she can't get out of it. But for the majority of people, if they are willing to work and continue to develop... a normal life is always within reach, with a CHANCE to have GREAT success.

This is my last reply to you. You can send me a PM and we can speak face to face over coffee. I really encourage you to spend some time with me together in the DTES and really be engaged with the demographic you've been fighting against this entire time buddy. If you're worried about being stabbed, chased, spat on, harmed, or robbed...your chances are just as low in a west end neighbourhood.
If I offended you at any point in my reply, please accept my sincere apology as I'm very passionate about my work and studies. I tried my best to lay things out for you to think about.

[Xu.Vi]

Hehe, I get a strong feeling that you've got a wonderful heart and a deep understanding of the hardships you, your family, and your friends endured in order to be where everyone is at in life right now. There's not a moment I ever doubted your strength and commitment in wanting the best for folks without privilege. In fact, you've expressed passionately about your thoughts and potential solutions in helping these people become the greater being they can be. You acknowledge and believe in the potential that every being has. I really respect that of you, and I hope you don't feel attacked by members (including myself) when we reply to your posts. I chose to reply because of all the reasons above AND because you highlight many questions and ideologies that many here share, that aren't at times "a real reflection" of what truly goes on in society. That is why I offer you to join me in seeing and interacting with what we're really rambling about on this forum. We can't learn to understand if we don't interact with those we're trying to understand. I can only type so much and describe so much..but I too, have never experienced their hardships...so I won't ever be able to express their true thoughts and sentiments through a forum behind a keyboard.

[Xu.Vi]

And to clarify, I'm not comparing the two demographics. But attempting to demonstrate that there are many demographics in our society that are automatically disadvantaged because of certain characteristics...in this case, maybe you can better resonate to it. Yes, the hardships differ but what stays solid is our generalized societal expectations for "typical" folks like you and i (ie. privileged, typical functioning, Asian in a western country,...list goes on.)

[welfare]

So from what i gather, hehe has spent a large portion of his upbringing in a shithole in South America, struggling to get to where he is today, making responsible decisions.
But because he isn't the pinnacle of all handicaps, a black person, he couldn't possibly understand struggle and therefore need you to show him.

Good Lord never did i think the opinion that people, regardless of race, could achieve their goals if they implemented conviction, would be followed by such scrutiny.

[Xu.Vi]

Lmao. You're absolutely hopeless.

[welfare]

While making up just 12% of the us population, blacks are responsible for 52% of all homicides.
Of those victims, 90% are other blacks.
I can't think of a more assured way to increase those statistics than to defund/disband/dismantle the only institution trying to keep them from killing each other.

Just another city in a sea of cities, with a mountain of murders that go largely unheard.
https://youtu.be/6aG4G3szX6M

[Xu.Vi]

How much do you care about these people? Your insight on controlling violence within a demographic has been the solution for a number of years. How come it's not working? If it isn't working, do you keep beating a dead horse? Lots of the realities creating this disparity are the same realities you continue to plug your ears for. Many people hate the idea of welfare because they feel uncomfortable with others getting money while they have to work. As much as I want to continue replying, I unfortunately can't force on the idea of empathy when maybe, you weren't given much throughout your life. When many reasons why these people are in a place they are today have been listed throughout this thread, all over Google scholar, google, YouTube,..., it's clear you're choosing to avoid the realities you've never endured. That's not ok, but I won't sweat it - your implications are clear on where you stand and how you perceive them.

[Manic!]

So from what i gather, hehe has spent a large portion of his upbringing in a shithole in South America, struggling to get to where he is today, making responsible decisions.
But because he isn't the pinnacle of all handicaps, a black person, he couldn't possibly understand struggle and therefore need you to show him.

Good Lord never did i think the opinion that people, regardless of race, could achieve their goals if they implemented conviction, would be followed by such scrutiny.

His location says YVR/TPE.

[pastarocket]

This picture should be the picture of the year. Talk about breaking down racial barriers.

This personal trainer Patrick Hutchinson helps an injured right wing protester by carrying the guy on his back. The police thanked the black guy for his efforts. What a Good Samaritan. :thumbsup:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/14/uk/london-blm-protester-injured-man-photo-trnd/index.html

[bobbinka]

Lmao. You're absolutely hopeless.

https://i.gifer.com/AZ0C.gif

[Hehe]

Hehe, I get a strong feeling that you've got a wonderful heart and a deep understanding of the hardships you, your family, and your friends endured in order to be where everyone is at in life right now. There's not a moment I ever doubted your strength and commitment in wanting the best for folks without privilege. In fact, you've expressed passionately about your thoughts and potential solutions in helping these people become the greater being they can be. You acknowledge and believe in the potential that every being has. I really respect that of you, and I hope you don't feel attacked by members (including myself) when we reply to your posts. I chose to reply because of all the reasons above AND because you highlight many questions and ideologies that many here share, that aren't at times "a real reflection" of what truly goes on in society. That is why I offer you to join me in seeing and interacting with what we're really rambling about on this forum. We can't learn to understand if we don't interact with those we're trying to understand. I can only type so much and describe so much..but I too, have never experienced their hardships...so I won't ever be able to express their true thoughts and sentiments through a forum behind a keyboard.

Not at all. It's just a good exchange of different POV.

While I understand where you are going with your comments, my idea still holds.

By saying that not everyone has the mind capacity to pull what I, and many around me, off, you are suggesting that there is a HUGE SYSTEMATIC problem with these people... including blacks while we are on topic. Because you are basically suggesting their minds aren't able to stick to something and work their butts off for it.

This is so hard for me to digest.

You know what I think it's going on? Given the statistics+what I and you said: reasons, such as low education, family structure in distress (to say at least), and the general condition during their time growing up made the way they think and believe. And from my perspective, their beliefs are fucked up. When their mind GENUINELY BELIEVE that RACISM, and WHITES are all that prevented them from achieving success in life... without EVER questioning what they have done to IMPROVE it, there is no hope until you can change that mindset.


His location says YVR/TPE.

Just FYI, those are the 2 locations I frequent NOW. But I did grow up in SA and I'm fluent in Spanish, with a lil Portuguese too for casual conversation although my accent sucks hard. In fact, I consider my Spanish better than my Mandarin Chinese because I can't write Chinese anymore and in day-to-day convo, my vocabularies are very limited.

[Hondaracer]

With not getting too deep into it there is a legitamite “race to the bottom” type mentality these days amongst North Americans. It’s all over social media and very evident across all demographics

This is not even the “pull your boot straps” or “work a little harder” counter mentality

It’s literally blaming virtually anyone with any level of perceived success or wealth is the enemy and the reason for others being held down.

Covid has brought this out in full force. I’ve literally seen stories about like a ma and pa book stores where they were part of a news story about how their business may not survive and their customer base has shrunk etc.

A huge portion of the comments related to these stories are like “good for them these millionaire peices of shit will be ok!! What about the small guy?!?!”

Like people that are probably scraping by making a livelihood are now the enemy.

[unit]

my god this thread is such a broken record

[Xu.Vi]

Not at all. It's just a good exchange of different POV.

While I understand where you are going with your comments, my idea still holds.

By saying that not everyone has the mind capacity to pull what I, and many around me, off, you are suggesting that there is a HUGE SYSTEMATIC problem with these people... including blacks while we are on topic. Because you are basically suggesting their minds aren't able to stick to something and work their butts off for it.

This is so hard for me to digest.

You know what I think it's going on? Given the statistics+what I and you said: reasons, such as low education, family structure in distress (to say at least), and the general condition during their time growing up made the way they think and believe. And from my perspective, their beliefs are fucked up. When their mind GENUINELY BELIEVE that RACISM, and WHITES are all that prevented them from achieving success in life... without EVER questioning what they have done to IMPROVE it, there is no hope until you can change that mindset.




Just FYI, those are the 2 locations I frequent NOW. But I did grow up in SA and I'm fluent in Spanish, with a lil Portuguese too for casual conversation although my accent sucks hard. In fact, I consider my Spanish better than my Mandarin Chinese because I can't write Chinese anymore and in day-to-day convo, my vocabularies are very limited.

That's cool dude. At the end of the day, it's what each of us individually do in order to best support our personal ideas. If inaction is the best course of action, so be it..but be mindful that there are people out in our communities that dedicate their entire careers and put in countless amount of energy, money, and commitment for the best interests of others ON TOP of their own personal life, families, and friends. I've put forward opportunities for you to join me and actually put your money where your mouth is. I can say that I truly understand where you're coming from because we come from the similar levels of privilege and your concerns for you and the loved ones around are are valid.

[Xu.Vi]

With not getting too deep into it there is a legitamite “race to the bottom” type mentality these days amongst North Americans. It’s all over social media and very evident across all demographics

This is not even the “pull your boot straps” or “work a little harder” counter mentality

It’s literally blaming virtually anyone with any level of perceived success or wealth is the enemy and the reason for others being held down.

Covid has brought this out in full force. I’ve literally seen stories about like a ma and pa book stores where they were part of a news story about how their business may not survive and their customer base has shrunk etc.

A huge portion of the comments related to these stories are like “good for them these millionaire peices of shit will be ok!! What about the small guy?!?!”

Like people that are probably scraping by making a livelihood are now the enemy.

That's absolutely tragic to be losing something you've poured your emotional, financial and physical energy into, banking on it to raise a family, community, or for self. There's numerous issues going on within every socioeconomical "group". You seem to have a good understanding for their losses and pain...watching a business pull back with high likelihood of it crumbling is so shitty. When there's very low incentive for employees to return to work because of CERB, owners are suddenly expected to fork out more than they would prior to this pandemic..there's not a bright road ahead.

[twitchyzero]

still get chills watching the ending

https://youtu.be/VYOjWnS4cMY?t=220

[welfare]

How much do you care about these people? Your insight on controlling violence within a demographic has been the solution for a number of years. How come it's not working? If it isn't working, do you keep beating a dead horse? Lots of the realities creating this disparity are the same realities you continue to plug your ears for. Many people hate the idea of welfare because they feel uncomfortable with others getting money while they have to work. As much as I want to continue replying, I unfortunately can't force on the idea of empathy when maybe, you weren't given much throughout your life. When many reasons why these people are in a place they are today have been listed throughout this thread, all over Google scholar, google, YouTube,..., it's clear you're choosing to avoid the realities you've never endured. That's not ok, but I won't sweat it - your implications are clear on where you stand and how you perceive them.

You have absolutely no idea of anything I've had to endure or how much I care so please don't pretend to.

[Xu.Vi]

You have absolutely no idea of anything I've had to endure or how much I care so please don't pretend to.

Oh boy. I don't, nor will I ever understand what you've endured and apologize if it seemed like my intentions were to. After rereading my post, I recognize that I was frustrated during the time of replying to your comment

[Xu.Vi]

I'm also beginning to sound like a broken record in this thread. Within the spoiler is what my union, the BC Government and Service Employees' Union (BCGEU) sent out to it's members a couple hours ago. Take what you'd like from it everyone.


The last several months have been indescribable in so many ways...but the last few weeks have been absolutely devastating.

Like many of you, two weeks ago my social media feeds were completely filled with the video of the senseless murder of George Floyd by Minneapolis police. Mr. Floyd is not alone—Ahmaud Arbery, Breonna Taylor, the list goes on and seems to grow by the day—but Mr. Floyd has been a flashpoint. The violence and brutality of his death was unspeakable, and the aftermath has been as hard to watch as it is hard to look away from.

These names and images and events are just the latest chapter in our society’s generations-long struggle with racism and white supremacy. To win that struggle, we need to start by understanding and accepting that racism and white supremacy are deeply rooted in our communities and our institutions and that those of us who are white have a moral obligation to be part of the work of rooting them out.

To me, that means embracing the work, the hard work, of anti-racism. For white people, like me and many of you, that work includes listening to and supporting our IBPoC (Indigenous, Black and People of Colour) friends and comrades when they share their lived experience; it includes looking for ways to transfer our privilege to those who lack it; it includes unlearning language and behaviour and assumptions that we don’t remember learning in the first place; it includes confronting uncomfortable truths about the people, places and institutions that have defined our lives; it includes dismantling systems designed for oppression and building a better world.
Also...


https://i.imgur.com/7xFf7xu.jpg