[underscore]

A 13 year old and a 15 year old in Tulsa were violently arrested for what I previously thought only existed as a part of a stand-up routine: walking while black.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/15/us/tulsa-jaywalking-arrest-new-video/index.html

[whitev70r]

I'm also beginning to sound like a broken record in this thread. Within the spoiler is what my union, the BC Government and Service Employees' Union (BCGEU) sent out to it's members a couple hours ago. Take what you'd like from it everyone.

Thank you for your passion and commitment to the cause and issue at hand. it is quite evident. And, as well as the gracious tone with which you engaged in the conversation. Refreshing to see adult conversation instead of the name calling and the dismissive and pompous attitude of others here. While we have some slight differences .. full respect to you.

One issue that we may differ on is personal agency. I wonder if you have any thoughts on this in your ongoing support of individuals who are struggling with poverty, mental health, addictions, etc. This might be a slightly different way to frame Hehe's point. At some point in your support of the down and out or those racialized, when do you empower the individual to make his/her own decisions? (not withstanding those examples you gave where there are physical/medical limitations like autism and other conditions). In work with the marginalized, this theme of personal agency is an important one.

[twitchyzero]

mirin' privileged gains

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/787/356/d6f.jpg

[twitchyzero]

https://i.redd.it/joyla4jyax451.jpg

[Xu.Vi]

Thank you for your passion and commitment to the cause and issue at hand. it is quite evident. And, as well as the gracious tone with which you engaged in the conversation. Refreshing to see adult conversation instead of the name calling and the dismissive and pompous attitude of others here. While we have some slight differences .. respect.

One of which is personal agency. I wonder if you have any thoughts on this in your ongoing support of individuals who are struggling with poverty, mental health, addictions, etc. This might be a slightly different way to frame Hehe's point. At some point in your support of the down and out, those racialized, when do you empower the individual to make his/her own decisions? (not withstanding those examples you gave where there are physical/medical limitations like autism and other conditions). In work with the marginalized, this theme of personal agency is an important one.


Thank you. That's a very good question and really appreciate the curiosity. It's a refreshing change in short, personal agency...for me, is when the client expresses his commitment in bringing themselves back up. With that said, without meeting a few levels of their hiarchy of needs, it is very common to see relapse in any stage of their goals.

Before reading, I want everyone to approach this with the fact that you will disagree, question, and feel very uncomfortable with the ideologies. It's ok to feel that way if it's new to you. I'm not looking for you to agree or disagree with me - that's not the point. I've respectfully read and replied, and even questioned with curiosity, I ask of you to do the same. Oh, and i also realized I went off the tangent a bit too. Oh well.

I'm not sure if I can speak for the entire demographic you mentioned but I will try my best for those struggling with poverty, substance use, and mental health.

Before looking at the host of reasons how marginalized people got to where they are now, we must be aware of the intersections present (how they got here is obviously very debatable according to this entire thread, so I won't go into it)...what do those people have in common? As mentioned earlier, many clients were traumatized, neglected, abandoned, sexually abused, domestically abused, (a few of many); these experiences will very oftentimes result in pain.

Now, everyone in our world experiences pain and isn't limited to the marginalized. Pain can be felt and also dealt with in many ways. Some find a relief through self harming, suicide, substance use, shopping, gambling, eating, working, social media, smoking, alcohol, or even counselling and 12 step groups. If you're like me, and many others in our society, we've got our own form of addiction...the only difference is that one method may be more socially acceptable (but I hope we can agree that the ultimate purpose is to relieve dress).

(Gabor Mate's definition of addiction: Addiction is manifested in any behaviour that a person finds temporary pleasure and relief on but suffers negative consequences as a result of, and does not give up or can not give up despite those negative consequences). Keep in mind that this doesn't mean every person traumatized will be an addict, but it does mean every addict has been traumatized.

So we're not asking why the addiction, but rather...why the PAIN. If a cigarette is my medication for pain, while meth may be for another, what we're ridding of is the same; pain.

Yes. There are differences in the effects certain activities do to the self (loss of money, liver damage, respiratory diseases, AIDS,...IT GOES ON)...but many play with dopamine receptors.

Through my experience and from many other professionals working with said demographics, nearly all the people have endured something traumatic during their toddler/early childhood and leading into teenage years. How one could define traumatic or how they "wouldve handle the situation" is completely irrelevant and insensitive; because like welfare mentioned, no one can ever understand another entirely without being in their shoes.

So anyway, the human brain is shaped by the environment...particularly the adult-child relationship. When we acknowledge early childhood development (the above), we can begin to understand that the child's brain is for a FACT being shaped through their experiences as a child. To tie this together...our childhood shapes our understanding of the society. I'll have you make the connections here.

So today, in our society we've got many young people of all ages groups walking through life with unimaginable trauma, stress..etc and are seeking a way to escape from the pain and seek a feeling of warmth, connection, and happiness to escape for a portion of their day. Many will seek the comfort of their family and loved ones to fulfill their dopamine difficiency, while others aren't fortunate to have these groups (or unaccepting of it because of the way they were raised/weren't raised). Now, our society implies that it's ok to freely advertise activities such as tobacco, which kills 5.5 mill people around the world (you can find out how many people die from alcohol use) while stigmatizing other substances or activities. Our world has guidelines on how you should appropriately deal with stress: alcohol, tobacco, gambling, shopping,........blah blah, and our society also has a way you shouldn't deal with stress: meth, heroine, prostitution, illegal gambling,...and so on.


No one argues a person with diabetes because they don't exercise and eat too much shouldn't recieve insulin. No one argues that smokers with inflamed lungs and narrow airways shouldn't get medication to open it up and reduce inflammation so they can prolong their life. Aren't we treating the consequences of their addictions? Why shouldn't we be against that, if were against treating traumatized and folks in pain?

As mentioned in a previous post, marginalized folks are ashamed and blame themselves for where they are now -- as with many in here too. They think they're flawed and failures. The biggest driver for relapse is stress itself. If cortisol level is high then chances are they'll use drugs. So if we are marginalizing them and stigmatizing, then we're continuing to stress them more.

Now...this brings us to the war on drugs. It's essential the war against people that were abused and traumatized and have mental health problems. Theres enough negative consequences there on the addictions alone. We don't have to add onto that...but we are.

Addiction is not a choice people make. It's a response to pain. I have faith that with all that's explained, we can find a correlation between poverty, mental health, addictions and such.

so. To conclude all of this...we fight for resources and revolutionary ways that other countries have and are implementing in order to address these issues. The personal agency here is for them to take this step -- and we've seen great success because of how anonymous, non-judgemental, and supportive (ie. Meeting them at where They're at in life...rather than asking them to meet us at our expectations) and OUR personal agency to identify our own issues revolving around a group of PEOPLE. PEOPLE.
Here's an example:
Safe injection reduces harm for the patients and for many of these people, it's their first time in their life to ever receive compassion and medical care (I can't count how many times I've recieved it). It doesn't curr addiction..it's not supposed to. Be nonjudgemental. And meet people where they are. If we have these, it means fewer are injected in streets, fewer are falling down in streets, fewer are getting diseases that costs lots for long term.

[Xu.Vi]

The power of difference allows our world to go round. We are able to address problems from all walks of life. It's ok and encouraged to have differences in our ideologies. What many here don't have is the curiosity to reflect, think, or dare I say...truly perspective take...

[MSREE]

https://i.redd.it/joyla4jyax451.jpg

She said please so this isn’t a real Karen

It’s an imposter

[whitev70r]

Xu.Vi, I can see that you are referring to Maslow's hierarchy of needs and I totally agree that we (government, healthcare, society, non-profits) need to provide the first few levels of basic needs. But even Maslow's goal is self-acutalization or fulfilling one's full potential. Now, before anyone misunderstands, I also get that this does not mean the capability to make it to middle class. One's full potential may look like basic housing, maintain a level of health care, finding some sort of work be it part-time. I don't think you will disagree that bringing a person to the point of employment gives the individual tremendous amount of dignity and self-worth. In fact, I would hope that if you are able to help someone to the point of partial employment, you would consider that to be a huge milestone.

https://www.simplypsychology.org/maslow-needs2.webp

You also referred to Gabor Mater who I am somewhat familiar with, leading researcher of mental health & addictions. Leading advocate of safe injection sites and a proponent of addiction as a disease. And what you explain as Trauma Informed Care for those who have had trauma or experienced issues of attachment in childhood.

I'm 100% for supporting and helping individuals with compassion, non-judgment, acceptance and belonging to the point where they can exercise their personal agency. We have digressed from racism, BLM movement to our Vancouver context but I do see some similarities, parallels, and overlap ... although not exactly the same. I honestly, don't think we are that far off in terms of ideology or approach. I would applaud much of what you and your colleagues do. Again, props and respect to you.

[Hehe]

In regards of that underprivileged in our society, my recommendation is really a single system:

Exemption of our labor laws WITH careful oversight to prevent abuse.

It's just very simple. If I were a business owner, and I have to pay minimum wage anyway... why wouldn't I hire someone regular with clean record than hiring someone in need but with record or history of some shit?

Thus, incentives have to be given. Now due to Covid, we have this wage subsidy thing going on in Canada. We should CONTINUE that after the whole mess pass, but this time... for people who NEEDS a second chance.

If carefully planned out, with people from our gov't to assist on the program, making sure that all the problems (say psychological state/health of participants) get addressed properly, it could be similar to the system of apprenticeship that some countries have. Businesses get basic labour for cheap, while people can build credential, experience, expertise and MOST IMPORTANTLY CONFIDENCE over time.

In BC we have a very robust program for kids with Autism. Even though there are some things that I think can be done better, but if parents take full advantage of the program, it could make night/day difference on the kid.

If we bring that level of attention to a grownup/people in need, I am sure we can make HUGE impact in their life.

Again... going back to what I said before, make it easy (er) for them to learn how to fish. Instead of promising them fishes.

I know there'd be people who wouldn't be able to fit into the program due to their mental state or physical condition... etc. But even if we can get 10% of people OUT of the street for good... it's still an incredible accomplishment.

[Xu.Vi]

In regards of that underprivileged in our society, my recommendation is really a single system:

Exemption of our labor laws WITH careful oversight to prevent abuse.

It's just very simple. If I were a business owner, and I have to pay minimum wage anyway... why wouldn't I hire someone regular with clean record than hiring someone in need but with record or history of some shit?

Thus, incentives have to be given. Now due to Covid, we have this wage subsidy thing going on in Canada. We should CONTINUE that after the whole mess pass, but this time... for people who NEEDS a second chance.

If carefully planned out, with people from our gov't to assist on the program, making sure that all the problems (say psychological state/health of participants) get addressed properly, it could be similar to the system of apprenticeship that some countries have. Businesses get basic labour for cheap, while people can build credential, experience, expertise and MOST IMPORTANTLY CONFIDENCE over time.

In BC we have a very robust program for kids with Autism. Even though there are some things that I think can be done better, but if parents take full advantage of the program, it could make night/day difference on the kid.

If we bring that level of attention to a grownup/people in need, I am sure we can make HUGE impact in their life.

Again... going back to what I said before, make it easy (er) for them to learn how to fish. Instead of promising them fishes.

I know there'd be people who wouldn't be able to fit into the program due to their mental state or physical condition... etc. But even if we can get 10% of people OUT of the street for good... it's still an incredible accomplishment.

Dude. I'm sorry, but it doesn't seem to me that you've got any understanding of what you're advocating for...lol...if I can even call it advocating.

[Xu.Vi]

Xu.Vi, I can see that you are referring to Maslow's hierarchy of needs and I totally agree that we (government, healthcare, society, non-profits) need to provide the first few levels of basic needs. But even Maslow's goal is self-acutalization or fulfilling one's full potential. Now, before anyone misunderstands, I also get that this does not mean the capability to make it to middle class. One's full potential may look like basic housing, maintain a level of health care, finding some sort of work be it part-time. I don't think you will disagree that bringing a person to the point of employment gives the individual tremendous amount of dignity and self-worth. In fact, I would hope that if you are able to help someone to the point of partial employment, you would consider that to be a huge milestone.

https://www.simplypsychology.org/maslow-needs2.webp

You also referred to Gabor Mater who I am somewhat familiar with, leading researcher of mental health & addictions. Leading advocate of safe injection sites and a proponent of addiction as a disease. And what you explain as Trauma Informed Care for those who have had trauma or experienced issues of attachment in childhood.

I'm 100% for supporting and helping individuals with compassion, non-judgment, acceptance and belonging to the point where they can exercise their personal agency. We have digressed from racism, BLM movement to our Vancouver context but I do see some similarities, parallels, and overlap ... although not exactly the same. I honestly, don't think we are that far off in terms of ideology or approach. I would applaud much of what you and your colleagues do. Again, props and respect to you.

That's the goal my dude. Appreciate your replies and insight on my posts. I've learned so much through all of Dr. Mate's books, talks, practice, movies (he starred in) and zoom conferences. There's only a handful of professionals that would spend 13 years in our DTES with the folks.

I'd like to know more about your thoughts on all of this if you don't mind sharing

[whitev70r]

I don't know what more else to add. I've had training/seminars on Trauma Informed Care from Providence Health and found it to be very eye-opening and insightful. Of course, Dr. Mate is a bit of a legend there. I worked at St. Paul's for a time and saw a lot urban health patients who had so many complex issues and understand that many have experienced trauma and ACE (Adverse Childhood Experiences) and the long term effect it has on the way that a person deals with pain. I also understand that this can be transmitted relationally and psychologically to the next generation. There are Residential School survivors who are in their 40's and 50's now and they parent out of their painful past traumas.

I have volunteered with non-profits who seeks to help underprivileged children (mainly First Nations background) to complete their Dogwood diploma so that they have a better chance to break the cycle of poverty.

I fully agree with compassionate support of individuals but at the same time, see the goal as fostering independence, enacting personal agency, managing or recovery from addictions (and move towards being clean), and developing capacity to be as independent as possible. The ability to work is more than being financially independent, it results in self-confidence, dignity, a sense of self-worth, and positive mental health. Now if our system would only allow someone to earn some extra income and not subtract it from their disability or welfare, then we might see some progress in this area.

I do have adverse reactions against a victim mentality where individuals blame everything on external circumstances. I attended the premier of this doc in which it told a great story of healing, forgiveness, and reconciliation. In short it is a story of a number of First Nations individuals facing their traumatic history, learning to forgive, let go, and finding self-actualization.

https://youtu.be/Y75z5Tf2ZIc

[Hehe]

Dude. I'm sorry, but it doesn't seem to me that you've got any understanding of what you're advocating for...lol...if I can even call it advocating.

Dude, one of the perks of a person married to a BCBA-D and clinical psychologist licensed in both US and Canada while being with her the entire time, is that you get to “volunteer” to proofread, reference-check and even data collection on shits she does. And her area of concentration happens to be underprivileged kids with metal and psychological disorders.

Granted, I’m not the expert and I could never really figure out how my wife even gets paid.

But after reading all the materials that my wife read during her master and doctorate, I think my opinion was at least an educated opinion.

In fact, let’s take my wife out of the equation, simply as a Canadian citizen and a voter, am I not allowed to have a suggestion on public policies?

So, please stop with this “I’m the expert who work on this and others don’t know shit attitude”. You are welcome to refute my suggestion, but just playing the “expert” card won’t get you very far in this discussion.

[Xu.Vi]

Alright. I'd love to read about what your wife has published over the years. Every PhD student has a dissertation and have been involved in publications. I am open to learning and have a few hours left of my day tonight.

I can cite many of what I've said in my replies. You can't. You can cite "mom, dad, black friend, wife, and Reddit".

I almost think you feel attacked by the amount of information in my post because it doesn't align with what you learned in your wife's papers, parents, and assumptions of the issues. Please, don't be...it's not my intentions. If we go by your defense...then I've read material from the top leading psychologists, counsellors, and neuroscientists within BC, Canada, and a few internationally published articles in recognized journals. I'm not here to flex my knowledge...I'm here to share it...to hopefully provide insight. What you're providing me...isn't insight...it's self confirmed biases...im serious man. If I wanted to flex...I'd claim that I learned my shit through a RCC, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST, ADVOCATE, PHYSICIAN, PHARMACIST, and NEUROSCIENTIST....because those are the folks behind many of the work done within the topic. Relax. I'm not here to piss you off. Ok?

[Hehe]

I already said, let’s take my wife out of the equation as I don’t need to drag her down and it wasn’t her opinion.

Let’s have some privacy shall we? She never endorsed any shit I said even though she respects my opinion. Let’s keep her out of this.

If you want to feel that I’m bullshitting, that’s fine. I’m just drawing the line somewhere.

BCBA-D is a certification very specific in the field which I’m sure you are familiar with. If I didn’t already knew a thing or 2 about the topic, I wouldn’t know what jack that meant and even worth to bring it on. So, at least I can assure you that I know what a BCBA-D is.

So, back to the voter part, is it not ok for a voter who had read a bit to give suggestions about public policies?

[Xu.Vi]

It also took me many posts to understand that a public forum for cars isn't the right place to be having a mature, educated, and informed discussion about this. Which probably explains why I don't normally check or post on the scene.

I'm going to hop back off of this. I wish that those reading have learned something from our posts or took a perspective they're not normally comfortable taking. I appreciate the time you've put into your replies.

[Xu.Vi]

:)

[Manic!]

From Surrey.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u869E7QS1wk&feature=youtu.be

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=riddoch+electric

Home (http://www.riddochelectric.com/)

[whitev70r]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6G3b0uNVlg

[bcedhk]

From Surrey.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u869E7QS1wk&feature=youtu.be

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=riddoch+electric

Home (http://www.riddochelectric.com/)

Any more info on this?

[Manic!]

Any more info on this?

I just got sent the video and a link to the guy's google page. His Facebook page has been shut down and his google reviews are in the toilet.

[Hondaracer]

https://i.imgur.com/MZUauna.jpg

[Hehe]

Really I'm tired of this whole political correctness bullshit. How about loosening up a little bit and don't confuse expression vs. racism or any other form of discrimination for that matter.

Context MATTERS

When a black friend messages me "sup n*gger, what da faq have u been up to lately?", his context is out of closeness and of course, he's black and he's ok with using the N word.

Nevertheless, by PC standard, I'm supposed to distant myself from accepting let alone using that phrase or even consider myself as his "n*gger" because I ain't black. Breaking away from that level of social trust my buddy has for me. THAT is NOT self-discipline or even respect. It's literally RACISM toward black that one's purposely distancing themselves from another particular group of our society. THAT is what separates our society.

When one's using a word, an image or anything that's clearing targeting in a malicious way toward a group of people, whether or NOT that phrase is a racial slur is irrelevant. This person is offending the said group.

Again, when dealing with things that are racial sensitive, CONTEXT is what MATTERS. Just because someone ALWAYS avoids using racial slurs doesn't mean the person isn't racist. Ergo, just because someone is using something from a specific social group, it doesn't mean it's racist in nature. Avoiding altogether doesn't teach us and our future generation the right lesson and ONLY SEPARATES us instead of uniting us.

[Manic!]

Aunt Jemima is changing its name and Uncle Bens is planning to do it also. It would have been great If Jemima was the one who created the product but Jemima is just the black mammy your mom used because she was too lazy to cook and clean.

[CivicBlues]

Really I'm tired of this whole political correctness bullshit. How about loosening up a little bit and don't confuse expression vs. racism or any other form of discrimination for that matter.

Context MATTERS

When a black friend messages me "sup n*gger, what da faq have u been up to lately?", his context is out of closeness and of course, he's black and he's ok with using the N word.

Nevertheless, by PC standard, I'm supposed to distant myself from accepting let alone using that phrase or even consider myself as his "n*gger" because I ain't black. Breaking away from that level of social trust my buddy has for me. THAT is NOT self-discipline or even respect. It's literally RACISM toward black that one's purposely distancing themselves from another particular group of our society. THAT is what separates our society.

When one's using a word, an image or anything that's clearing targeting in a malicious way toward a group of people, whether or NOT that phrase is a racial slur is irrelevant. This person is offending the said group.

Again, when dealing with things that are racial sensitive, CONTEXT is what MATTERS. Just because someone ALWAYS avoids using racial slurs doesn't mean the person isn't racist. Ergo, just because someone is using something from a specific social group, it doesn't mean it's racist in nature. Avoiding altogether doesn't teach us and our future generation the right lesson and ONLY SEPARATES us instead of uniting us.


Dude...just cut your losses....please. You're trying to sound smart but your treatise just comes out as jumbled word salad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlsW2hd06R0

No one is saying you can't use the N-word among friends. People are being called out for using racially inflammatory language in public or in public forums on the internet. We've had the internet for over 30 years now and it's mindboggling to see people still use it to destroy themselves or the fact that cameras on phones exist. Just don't be fucking stupid tool in real life or online...do whatever you want in private.

[MarkyMark]

Dude...just cut your losses....please.

I'll post his next response

"Something something something ALLLLL CAPSSSS"

And repeat.

[unit]

When a black friend messages me "sup n*gger, what da faq have u been up to lately?", his context is out of closeness and of course, he's black and he's ok with using the N word.

Nevertheless, by PC standard, I'm supposed to distant myself from accepting let alone using that phrase or even consider myself as his "n*gger" because I ain't black.

that's not the "PC standard". who said you have to feel bad about that? you aren't supposed to use the word, black people can use it however they want.
it's not hard..

[Hehe]

Dude...just cut your losses....please.

So, you are suggesting that it's OK for someone to never use racial slur to be racist (say a manager never hire person with color, but also never use racial languages) rather than someone who's totally racially neutral (say someone who hire whoever best qualified, regardless of skin color and has a black best friend who they address to each other as nxgger) who somehow used racial slur in his writing of a play or something to be forever tagged a racist?

That's how fucked up this whole thing has become in this society. All everyone care is about the facial of things, and pretend that if anyone other than black don't use the N word and anyone who isn't Asian don't say Chin Chon and this would somehow lead to a better, racism free world?

Racism can only be eradicated by properly educating, understanding and embracing of different races. Not by some pretentious thing like "never use the N word and you are going to be good".

Throughout my life, because of the environment I grew up in, I've made friend who are black, aboriginal/native, caucasian, Indians... etc. And do you know how I see them? Just another person. And the amount of racial slur we used in our conversations is hard to count anymore. So I'm sure I'm racist as hell.

[whitev70r]

I just got sent the video and a link to the guy's google page. His Facebook page has been shut down and his google reviews are in the toilet.

I watched the short clip and I don't see the connection with the white guy and the company. It certainly is not obvious from the clip. So I am to assume that the white guy owns/works for the electrical company and people should shame him ... this is the kind of vigilante social media justice that can go terribly wrong.

You should be ashamed of yourself for circulating and promoting this based on such little evidence. But that's kind of on par for you.

[unit]

context does matter. if you talk amongst your friends about each other, you can call each other retards, gay, nwords, whatever you want and as long as it stays in that private realm then who is going to complain about it? i don't think too many people here are really disagreeing with you there and saying that that's so bad.

once you go rage at someone in public that you don't know, or even if you do know them and you bring race into it for absolutely no reason, then you are clearly being racist and deserved to be tarred and feathered.

you seem to fall into the first category, so what are you complaining about?

[CivicBlues]

So, you are suggesting that it's OK for someone to never use racial slur to be racist (say a manager never hire person with color, but also never use racial languages) rather than someone who's totally racially neutral (say someone who hire whoever best qualified, regardless of skin color and has a black best friend who they address to each other as nxgger) who somehow used racial slur in his writing of a play or something to be forever tagged a racist?

That's how fucked up this whole thing has become in this society. All everyone care is about the facial of things, and pretend that if anyone other than black don't use the N word and anyone who isn't Asian don't say Chin Chon and this would somehow lead to a better, racism free world?

Racism can only be eradicated by properly educating, understanding and embracing of different races. Not by some pretentious thing like "never use the N word and you are going to be good".

Throughout my life, because of the environment I grew up in, I've made friend who are black, aboriginal/native, caucasian, Indians... etc. And do you know how I see them? Just another person. And the amount of racial slur we used in our conversations is hard to count anymore. So I'm sure I'm racist as hell.

Do you just love to hear yourself talk or something? I got you the first time. No I said no such thing. Go back in read my post again, you might have missed my edit. I don't know how much simpler this can be:

1. Don't be racist
2. Don't use racist language
3. If you must use racist language (and a big IF), do so in private among close friends only. Even then, don't let any of them record, transcribe, or quote you. In fact, just ignore this and stick to rules #1 and #2.

[Hehe]

Do you just love to hear yourself talk or something? I got you the first time. No I said no such thing. Go back in read my post again, you might have missed my edit. I don't know how much simpler this can be:

1. Don't be racist
2. Don't use racist language
3. If you must use racist language (and a big IF), do so in private among close friends only. Even then, don't let any of them record, transcribe, or quote you. In fact, just ignore this and stick to rules #1 and #2.

Oh, I'm sure your reply... "Dude...just cut your losses....please." perfectly implied a positive connotation that 1. I got your point and 2. it's ok to use it privately.

But who am I to say that... English is not my first language after all.

By saying context matters goes beyond private conversations. Say a team's name (Redskins) or logo portraying a black person. First we have to understand the context... under WHAT circumstances was the name or logo decided? IF... and a big one at that, it was decided with THE purpose to mock or in ANY malicious way, then for sure... I support it to be changed because the context was wrong in the first place.

[nsx042003]

people are forgetting that context is the number 1 thing that distinguish a person being racist or not. I applaud the fact that black people are successful at transforming the meaning of the N word, and making it a non racial term amongst themselves.

they use it, you use it, but don't use it in a way that degrades the individual. You can't walk around using the word as a reference to black people. THAT's racist.

[SkinnyPupp]

https://twitter.com/ajplus/status/1273342029502853121

According to Fulton County's DA, This Cop, Garrett Rolfe, harassed Rayshard, who was "sleeping it off" in his car in a Wendy's parking lot

He didn't arrest him, but pulled him out of the car, stood on him while he was on the ground, and kicked him while he was on the ground.

Rayshard escaped the beating, and they chased after him. He'd grabbed a stun gun and shot it at Rolfe, but missed. So Rolfe shot him and murdered him. No medical attention was given, until 2 minutes later when they decided to check up on him. This part was caught on camera.

This is all corroborated by another cop, Devin Brosnan, who will be testifying against him. Brosnan admits to stepping on Rayshard after the shooting. There was no arrest, just a beating, chase, and murder. So now Rolfe be charged with aggravated assault and felony murder.

If this had happened a month ago, or with no witnesses, this would all be swept under the rug.

[welfare]

:rukidding:

https://youtu.be/DAAr1kVRlCo

[SkinnyPupp]

Definitely looks different from the DA's description LUL

But the footage doesn't show allegedly what happened after the shooting "standing on him" and not giving medical attention for 2 mins. Also shooting into another car?

Also would like to see what happened beforehand, just to have as much info as possible. If they're going to release the footage, release all of it right? For instance not a single time do wear hear them say he's under arrest. Just that he shouldn't be driving. Also would be good to know if he was compliant before they started putting him in handcuffs

[welfare]

Found dead Saturday

https://youtu.be/-SNFANEjnaI

Her (and the 75 y/o white woman who oddly didn't seem to receive much attention) killer, ironically a black man, who likely shouldn't have been out of jail.
Probably the suspect who she reported had sexually assaulted her the day she went missing.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/06/15/oluwatoyin-salau-found-dead-tallahassee-black-lives-matter-protest-missing/3190606001/

[Fafine]

Definitely looks different from the DA's description LUL

But the footage doesn't show allegedly what happened after the shooting "standing on him" and not giving medical attention for 2 mins. Also shooting into another car?

Also would like to see what happened beforehand, just to have as much info as possible. If they're going to release the footage, release all of it right? For instance not a single time do wear hear them say he's under arrest. Just that he shouldn't be driving. Also would be good to know if he was compliant before they started putting him in handcuffs

https://youtu.be/DhdpG2XzRXQ?t=66
some footage of the start

[SkinnyPupp]

https://youtu.be/DhdpG2XzRXQ?t=66
some footage of the start
The first youtube comment sums it up perfectly

This was literally the most cooperative and polite exchange between officers and a citizen for like 41 minutes straight. Shit went south in a split second.

Guy even asked if he could just walk to his sister's place down the street. As soon as they started cuffing him, I guess instincts kicked in that he could die now, and just freaked out.

What a fucking tragedy. Totally avoidable.

I doubt Rolfe will be convicted of murder, though the argument is always there when you shoot someone in the BACK in self defense, so we shall see. At the very least, it's good that it's not just being swept under the rug like how many times, we can't even imagine/

[AzNightmare]

I'll admit, that video is TL;DW, so I didn't watch it. I'll just assume based on the first comment, that the cop treated him respectfully for the first 41 mins. But this is the latest news that I read on this incident:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/17/former-atlanta-officer-charged-with-murder-in-death-of-rayshard-brooks-at-wendys.html
Fired cop charged with murder in shooting of Rayshard Brooks at Atlanta Wendy’s

Brooks was questioned at length by the officers about his sobriety, body-cam and dash-cam footage of the incident showed. As officers moved to arrest Brooks, he pulled away, bringing him and the officers to the ground as he struggled to break free. Footage showed him grabbing one of the officers’ stun guns before appearing to run away.

As Rolfe gave chase, Brooks appeared to turn and point the stun gun at the officer, who pulled out his firearm and shot Brooks.

I mean... it's sensitive times. But if all this was true. I think it's ridiculous to fire this officer and have him charged for murder. I mean do we live in generation snowflake where you can grab an officer's weapon, use it to threaten him, and still expect to just be told nicely to pretty please put it down?

If I don't have all the info, then sure, I could be very well be addressing this situation all wrong. But based on just what I know above, this is absurd and Rayshard isn't a victim.

“I believe a reasonable person would conclude he was not a threat at that time,” Howard said of Brooks.

LOLwut?? The guy took the taser from the cop and was trying to use it on them...
:fulloffuck:

At what point do we draw the line that when someone has a weapon and is trying to use it against them, can the cop justify shooting back?

[MSREE]

“Mr. Rolfe had disciplinary issues in the past, including a written reprimand in 2016 for another use-of-force incident involving a firearm, according to records released by the Atlanta Police Department. The disciplinary history does not include details of that case, nor those of a number of other episodes in which Mr. Rolfe was involved since his hiring in 2013.

Among the other cases were four citizen complaints, none of which resulted in disciplinary action, and five vehicle accidents, which led to an “oral admonishment” in 2014 and a written reprimand in 2018.

Mr. Rolfe’s record also includes an incident in August 2015 involving the discharge of a firearm, but there is no record of any disciplinary action taken in that case.”

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/06/17/us/garrett-rolfe-rayshard-brooks-atlanta.amp.html

How can Trump even say that police aren’t treated fairly?
They usually get put on paid leave when they do something fucked up then come back like nothing happened.

They’re protected even more than regular citizens.

I’m very curious how it would play out if it were black cops who started killing white people in the same manner. Would it be a problem then?

I really honestly doubt white people would stand for that when they can’t even handle seeing the phrase Black Lives Matters without losing their goddamn minds.

[Fafine]

https://youtu.be/22zMVyfFbWY?t=68

shows him grabbing the stun gun. Then footage of him running away and pointing the stun gun at the officers direction

[MarkyMark]

Was is a stun gun or a taser? I thought stun guns had to be physically touching the person and if that's the case who cares if he's pointing it from 8 feet away?

[MSREE]

I'll admit, that video is TL;DW, so I didn't watch it. I'll just assume based on the first comment, that the cop treated him respectfully for the first 41 mins. But this is the latest news that I read on this incident:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/17/former-atlanta-officer-charged-with-murder-in-death-of-rayshard-brooks-at-wendys.html
Fired cop charged with murder in shooting of Rayshard Brooks at Atlanta Wendy’s



I mean... it's sensitive times. But if all this was true. I think it's ridiculous to fire this officer and have him charged for murder. I mean do we live in generation snowflake where you can grab an officer's weapon, use it to threaten him, and still expect to just be told nicely to pretty please put it down?

If I don't have all the info, then sure, I could be very well be addressing this situation all wrong. But based on just what I know above, this is absurd and Rayshard isn't a victim.



LOLwut?? The guy took the taser from the cop and was trying to use it on them...
:fulloffuck:

At what point do we draw the line that when someone has a weapon and is trying to use it against them, can the cop justify shooting back?

Shoot to kill isn’t necessary when the person is running away.
They couldn’t shoot him in the leg or the arm to at least get him to stop running?
They didn’t administer aid for 2 minutes.

Given the climate right now, if I was a black man I would be afraid for my life too after 41 minutes of bullshit and 2 cops are starting to grab you and arrest you.
In the video it seems like the cop who had the bodycam on puts his hands on Rayshard and I think in his mind he FREAKS OUT because up until then he’s been calm but now all of a sudden they’re both grabbing him.

Anyways I watched the other video Fafine posted and the issue brought up in that NY times article is the question is if a stun gun is classified as a deadly weapon and if that amount of force was necessary.

In my opinion, they still could have shot to injure him or slow him down. Arm or Leg.
There were 2 cops and he missed with the stun gun.
If one got stunned, the other could still pursue.

What’s the rule if you drink and supposed to drive?
Are you allowed to sober up in your car in a parking lot?

[Jmac]

I believe officers are trained to shoot at the torso. If you aim for limbs, which are smaller and have significantly more range of motion, I believe there's more risk to bystanders (misses, ricochets, etc.)

He's running away with a non-lethal weapon, no need to shoot him. Police should only be using deadly force if the individual is proven to be potential deadly threat to others.

[MSREE]

^ I see, that makes sense about the risk to bystanders. I must watch too much cop tv where they always disarm the person who has a weapon so now I think that would be the natural better way :alone:

Tragic fucking situation. I feel for his family.

[Manic!]

If you can't subdue an unarmed person without killing him you should not be a cop. Letting a weapon get away from you makes it even worse.

[Gumby]

Shoot to kill isn’t necessary when the person is running away.
They couldn’t shoot him in the leg or the arm to at least get him to stop running?
They didn’t administer aid for 2 minutes.
This isn’t Hollywood, or a video game! A cop doesn’t have the skill to aim and hit you in the arm/leg, especially if they’re acting on instinct. Not administering aid immediately is terrible though.

Given the climate right now, if I was a black man I would be afraid for my life too after 41 minutes of bullshit and 2 cops are starting to grab you and arrest you.
Not just the current climate. I’ve seen numerous black media personalities say that ever since birth, they’re taught that they will be treated differently by police. If you’re pulled over, make sure your hands are visible, make sure you tell the officer what you’re doing, etc. Some women said they even cried when they found out they were having a baby boy, knowing that he will grow up to be a black man and face all sorts of racism/discrimination.

[MSREE]

This isn’t Hollywood, or a video game! A cop doesn’t have the skill to aim and hit you in the arm/leg, especially if they’re acting on instinct. Not administering aid immediately is terrible though.


Not just the current climate. I’ve seen numerous black media personalities say that ever since birth, they’re taught that they will be treated differently by police. If you’re pulled over, make sure your hands are visible, make sure you tell the officer what you’re doing, etc. Some women said they even cried when they found out they were having a baby boy, knowing that he will grow up to be a black man and face all sorts of racism/discrimination.

Well that’s a shame that they don’t have that skill considering they are in possession of deadly weapons.
I assumed they would because carrying a gun is a dangerous responsibility.

If they have a gun in their possession every day, shouldn’t they have that responsibility to have that skill under pressure?

But I guess it’s the states? They’ll give anyone a gun.
I dunno, that’s just my opinion though.

Yeah I’ve read that too about it being from birth.
I personally am extra sketchy right now about what I see - the news about black men being found hanging from a tree.
I really don’t think those are suicides.
Seems more like a message to get all the protesting to stop.

[Hehe]

If you can't subdue an unarmed person without killing him you should not be a cop. Letting a weapon get away from you makes it even worse.

:rukidding:

Let's paint another scenario of an alternate universe. The police officer didn't shoot but kept on chasing, the dude kept on running and injure/kill someone else in the process either by accident or out or scare.

Who's the media gonna blame now given the video footages?

I'm sure the officer can get off the hook completely by saying BLM. :suspicious::badpokerface:

[SkinnyPupp]

I'll admit, that video is TL;DW, so I didn't watch it. I'll just assume based on the first comment, that the cop treated him respectfully for the first 41 mins. But this is the latest news that I read on this incident:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/17/former-atlanta-officer-charged-with-murder-in-death-of-rayshard-brooks-at-wendys.html
Fired cop charged with murder in shooting of Rayshard Brooks at Atlanta Wendy’s



I mean... it's sensitive times. But if all this was true. I think it's ridiculous to fire this officer and have him charged for murder. I mean do we live in generation snowflake where you can grab an officer's weapon, use it to threaten him, and still expect to just be told nicely to pretty please put it down?

If I don't have all the info, then sure, I could be very well be addressing this situation all wrong. But based on just what I know above, this is absurd and Rayshard isn't a victim.



LOLwut?? The guy took the taser from the cop and was trying to use it on them...
:fulloffuck:

At what point do we draw the line that when someone has a weapon and is trying to use it against them, can the cop justify shooting back?
I think there's some things to keep in mind, and you will see that a big issue is quality of police officers in dealing with criminals, and the training they receive.

The police searched his car, and then searched him. So they know 100% he was not carrying a weapon. This is important because they know the only weapon he had was the taser, and they knew what happens when you miss with a taser, and especially once he drops it and keeps running, he's no longer a threat to them at that moment.

They tried to subdue him but the two of them couldn't handle a staggeringly drunk man. When the taser was brought out, he was able to get it off before it was used, AND get away, using it HIMSELF to try to escape

The key to me is after he unsuccessfully fired the taser, at what point is he a threat to the cops? Dude was probably running to his sister's house. How can it be "self defense" when you shoot him in the BACK? Was he backing towards you with a discharged taser? Yes "when you point a weapon at a cop, expect to get shot". But what about AFTER you point a weapon, and miss, no longer having a usable weapon, and are running away. Should you expect to get shot and killed when you run away after not harming anyone?

So to me it's just a collection of bad decisions on both sides, leading to tragedy. Murder? I dunno... Disciplinary action? Absolutely. He shouldn't be a cop. Does it emphasize the need to have higher quality officers and better training? Absolutely. Also on a wider scale, does it remind us that racial inequality (not to mention economy class) leads many towards drugs, alcohol and crime? I'm sure many would deny that (I know we'll hear it but i'm not going to respond), but I think that's a huge issue that BLM hopes to begin resolving. And what Bernie wanted to try resolving.

"Defund Police" sounds like people want there to be no cops, but the point is to turn the police more into social workers than "enforcers". Maybe instead of arresting a guy who was drunk driving, sending him further down whatever spiral he was in, let him go home and sober up and maybe get help he desperately needs (which is also not highly accessible, another thing we need to deal with which defund the police may allow). Arresting him may have prevented a car accident from happening that night, but what about when he gets out of jail? The cops actually have that choice, and that's obviously not the choice that was made here, despite the general politeness of the incident before it went to shit. It maybe SHOULD be the default choice, and maybe for some cops it is.

[MSREE]

:rukidding:

Let's paint another scenario of an alternate universe. The police officer didn't shoot but kept on chasing, the dude kept on running and injure/kill someone else in the process either by accident or out or scare.

Who's the media gonna blame now given the video footages?

I'm sure the officer can get off the hook completely by saying BLM. :suspicious::badpokerface:

:wgaf:

[Manic!]

:rukidding:

Let's paint another scenario of an alternate universe. The police officer didn't shoot but kept on chasing, the dude kept on running and injure/kill someone else in the process either by accident or out or scare.

Who's the media gonna blame now given the video footages?

I'm sure the officer can get off the hook completely by saying BLM. :suspicious::badpokerface:

Killing another person how? They should have called for back up and followed him. But the cops were probably too embarrassed to do so.

[welfare]

Any more info on this?

It's kinda funny, Riddoch electric brings their vehicles to us for service. I've worked on that transit several times.
The young man in the video is the son of the business owner.

Couple co-workers and i were having a good laugh at the fb replies at lunch.
That kid just kept digging his hole deeper and deeper. Calling them terrorists and saying they tried to hit him with their truck when he was the one who jumped out in front of it and told them to hit him. Which Mr. Cheema, the driver and their neighbor, clearly says "i don't want to hit you". Riddoch jr. there playing the "you tried to hit a disabled 20 y/o with your truck!" card. -He messed his leg up from a motorcycle accident awhile ago-

So i guess the story goes Riddoch jr and his buddies were ripping up and down the street on their motorcycles a week or so ago, so Mr Cheema filed a report about it. That's where the little squabble started i guess.
The kid's a real entitled little turd IMO.
And his dad's not much of a party either from what the service advisors tell me. Still don't think his business shoulda got dragged through the mud though when he had nothing to do with it.

[welfare]

Jesus Christ. You don't resist arrest,then take an officer's weapon away from him during a struggle, fire it at them, and expect the cops to play pattycake.
That's not a precedent anyone should want set.
Wtf world are people living in?

[SkinnyPupp]

Jesus Christ. You don't resist arrest,then take an officer's weapon away from him during a struggle, fire it at them, and expect the cops to play pattycake.
That's not a precedent anyone should want set.
Wtf world are people living in?
You just justified murder by assuming the only other option is "pattycake"...

[Hehe]

Killing another person how? They should have called for back up and followed him. But the cops were probably too embarrassed to do so.

I'm telling you that it's almost hypocritical to suggest something like that. You are analyzing a la keyboard warrior style AFTER the fact.

Police are trained and sworn to protect. And they are trained to shoot for the torso. It's the largest mass on our body. It was unfortunate that the suspect died from the injury, but what you are saying is that the police was shooting with the idea to kill the suspect. If he was shooting to kill, I think there'd be a lot more shots fired.

In a situation like that, the priority was to neutralize the threat. It was a person with a record, under influence, resisting arrest, armed (to a certain degree), and had the willingness to engage.

If the police didn't neutralize the perceived threat ATM while he still could, he wouldn't be doing his job.

Again... think about the alternate scenario I suggested, it's basically what you are asking, keep on following him... and if another bystander gets hurt because of this decision, who would you blame? Who would the public blame?

Yes I get the argument of "oh he didn't have deadly forces". But he clearly showed the willingness to hurt others in order to get what he wanted. When there is motive, having a weapon or not becomes irrelevant because the person himself is the weapon.

[welfare]

You just justified murder by assuming the only other option is "pattycake"...

I really don't think hitting a moving target, while you're moving, exactly where you want to hit it is as easy as you think, if that's what you're implying.

[underscore]

Well that’s a shame that they don’t have that skill considering they are in possession of deadly weapons.
I assumed they would because carrying a gun is a dangerous responsibility.

The skill to shoot a moving target in the legs with a pistol? That's basically impossible.

Not that he should've been shooting what sounds like a cuffed guy with a spent taser in the back.

[SkinnyPupp]

I really don't think hitting a moving target, while you're moving, exactly where you want to hit it is as easy as you think, if that's what you're implying.
I don't know what you think I'm suggesting... I'm not the one saying "shoot at his feet" or anything like that. When you shoot at someone, it's center mass to stop them coming at you, and to kill them.

When you shoot someone in the back, it's to stop them from getting away from you, and to kill them

The first one applies to "self defense" as in "if I didn't shoot him, he would have harmed me". The second applies if someone is going around posing a danger to everyone around - like the guy in Nova Scotia. You kill him as soon as you see him.

The cop's defense in this case will have to prove that he thought if he didn't kill the guy, he would have harmed someone else. He assumed that his intent on resisting arrest was so that he intended to get away so he could go hurt people, rather than what most people might suggest was to just not get touched by cops and go sleep off his drunkenness.

After 40 minutes of being completely compliant and reasonable, it might be hard for the cop to convince a jury that he thought Rayshard was going to imminently try to hurt people if the they didn't try arresting him then and there, and also that if he'd fled, that the only other option was to kill Rayshard, because otherwise he would have gone on to harm someone else instead of running away..

You don't kill someone as fucking punishment for getting away from your arrest attempt.

[Manic!]

I'm telling you that it's almost hypocritical to suggest something like that. You are analyzing a la keyboard warrior style AFTER the fact.

Police are trained and sworn to protect. And they are trained to shoot for the torso. It's the largest mass on our body. It was unfortunate that the suspect died from the injury, but what you are saying is that the police was shooting with the idea to kill the suspect. If he was shooting to kill, I think there'd be a lot more shots fired.

In a situation like that, the priority was to neutralize the threat. It was a person with a record, under influence, resisting arrest, armed (to a certain degree), and had the willingness to engage.

If the police didn't neutralize the perceived threat ATM while he still could, he wouldn't be doing his job.

Again... think about the alternate scenario I suggested, it's basically what you are asking, keep on following him... and if another bystander gets hurt because of this decision, who would you blame? Who would the public blame?

Yes I get the argument of "oh he didn't have deadly forces". But he clearly showed the willingness to hurt others in order to get what he wanted. When there is motive, having a weapon or not becomes irrelevant because the person himself is the weapon.

Who are they trying to protect? Just let the guy run and follow him. When he gets tired then beat him with batons and arrest him. The cops' ego got hurt and he shot him in the back. The gun should be the absolute last resort. Know ones life was at stake.

Situations like this (cop getting beaten up) happen all the time and no one dies.

https://www.cheknews.ca/rcmp-officer-attacked-in-nanaimo-while-trying-to-break-up-fight-382962/

https://www.nanaimobulletin.com/news/vancouver-island-rcmp-officer-assaulted-during-traffic-stop/

https://www.nanaimobulletin.com/news/nanaimo-rcmp-and-civilians-restrain-irate-suspect/

[fliptuner]

Aunt Jemima is changing its name and Uncle Bens is planning to do it also. It would have been great If Jemima was the one who created the product but Jemima is just the black mammy your mom used because she was too lazy to cook and clean.

Lmk when the Redskins change their name and the US changes the anthem.

[Manic!]

Lmk when the Redskins change their name and the US changes the anthem.

Small steps. Land o lakes also changed their logo.

[68style]

Kansas City Chiefs... Washington Redskins... Atlanta Braves... Chicago Blackhawks... their days are all numbered

[AzNightmare]

Sometimes I feel people forget police officers are humans too. Unless we start using AI for enforcing, it's never going to be a perfect scenario where just the perfect amount of force is used every single time.

It's easy in hindsight to point out he was only just running away. He ran out of "ammo" on his taser so whew, he missed, so the officers were completely safe after that. But this isn't a movie where cops are counting remaining shots in the heat of the moment. All the cop knows is this guy just stole a weapon, tried to attack, and is trying to escape, and now he needs to be put down immediately.

Police officers also have family they want to go back to at the end of the day. When someone grabs a weapon and then tries to use it to attack, those are some extreme lengths to be pulling on a cop. I really hate saying this, but "play stupid games and win stupid prizes." Once again I'll ask at what line can we draw when it's justified to take out the gun? Are officers expected to be sacrificial pawns just because it's "part of the job"? Like, there were two officers, let's hesitate and wait. If one officer gets taken out, then the 2nd officer will know to move onto the next step of enforcement accordingly...

Yes, in hindsight, it was only a taser. He wasn't going to kill anyone directly by tazing one officer, even if he was on target. But that's besides the point. It was a threat. It was very clear this man was willing to go to lengths to attack. If life ran at half speed, maybe every reactive scenario can be played out much better. But this happened all so fast.

We can sit here blaming the training and what not. Maybe it's true. Police need better training to address these situations more accurately. But at some point, I also feel "better training" really just means to hesitate and be willing to sacrifice getting severely injured or killed should they train to react more slowly even when things escalate.

[SkinnyPupp]

is trying to escape, and now he needs to be put down immediately.


This is the part I disagree with. We're not talking about a bank robber here. Or even a drug dealer. We're dealing with a guy who was drunk driving, and passed out in a drive thru. A guy who was totally compliant and polite the whole time, for almost 40 minutes. He tried to get away (bad idea) but that doesn't mean "he needs to be put down". He wasn't even running from a warrant. You want to "put down" someone trying to duck a drunk driving charge?

I agree things go fast and cops are in a very dangerous line of work. That's why I emphasize that the training needs to be good, and the goal should be as social workers rather than going around trying to lock people up who aren't imminently endangering the world.

[unit]

Kansas City Chiefs... Washington Redskins... Atlanta Braves... Chicago Blackhawks... their days are all numbered

all sports teams with indian related names and logos right now:

https://i.ibb.co/71LMFDf/dd0.png

[Tim Budong]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/551244735562645514/723213455242559488/darkie.jpg

My toothpaste is racist, i knew it, but I used this brand..and have been for a long time, colgate will rebrand this.. again..somehow...

https://hongkongfp.com/2020/06/18/exclusive-darlie-to-rebrand-colgate-owned-black-people-toothpaste-to-be-reviewed-amid-black-lives-matter-demos/

[320icar]

Jesus Christ. You don't resist arrest,then take an officer's weapon away from him during a struggle, fire it at them, and expect the cops to play pattycake.
That's not a precedent anyone should want set.
Wtf world are people living in?

You just justified murder by assuming the only other option is "pattycake"...

Always makes me think of the quote from pulp fiction.

“ Antwan didn't expect Marsellus to react the way he did, but he had to expect a reaction.”

https://static3.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/pulp-fiction-jack-rabbit-slims-menu.jpg

[Manic!]

......

[6793026]

I don't blame the cop.
Why would someone run from being arrested AND steal a taser while running is something i can't comprehend.

When you run and then turn around firing something at someone, he/she (a cop in this case) would not have the mindset to distinguish "oh, he is firing at me with the taser he took 25 second ago". Training has always taught to protect yourself, we aren't playing a video game.

The cop's life is a life itself, he has to protect himself also. Who's to say the dude wasn't carrying and pulled out a gun while running.

There are LOTS of stupid situation when a black man answers the door with his remote control and mistaken it as a gun... shot and dies...

Fraction of a second judgment calls aren't always the best, but when its life and death... cop has the right to protect himself.

[Manic!]

I don't blame the cop.
Why would someone run from being arrested AND steal a taser while running is something i can't comprehend.

When you run and then turn around firing something at someone, he/she (a cop in this case) would not have the mindset to distinguish "oh, he is firing at me with the taser he took 25 second ago". Training has always taught to protect yourself, we aren't playing a video game.

The cop's life is a life itself, he has to protect himself also. Who's to say the dude wasn't carrying and pulled out a gun while running.

There are LOTS of stupid situation when a black man answers the door with his remote control and mistaken it as a gun... shot and dies...

Fraction of a second judgment calls aren't always the best, but when its life and death... cop has the right to protect himself.

The guy was shot in the back.

[Obsideon]

I guess there's always 2 sides to an argument.

I'm all for BLM and it's just good/bad timing for this to happen but seriously, he was so drunk he passed out in the middle of the drive-thru, that in itself was enough to get arrested and car towed.
Then to resist arrest, grab an officers weapon and try to run. I can't defend that.
That 40minute calm and respectful conversation does give the benefit that that the police were not prejudiced towards him because of colour.

Would he have opened fire if it was an Asian in that situation? Who knows.
The cop had basically 1 in 50 chance to hit the heart, he was just aiming at the main part of the body.

[whitev70r]

With this case, it should have NEVER gotten to the handcuff stage ... what the hell was that for? Officer should have offered the guy a ride to his sister's house to sleep off the booze. You gotta know when someone is worth handcuffing and arresting and when someone is not.

[birddog3k]

With this case, it should have NEVER gotten to the handcuff stage ... what the hell was that for? Officer should have offered the guy a ride to his sister's house to sleep off the booze. You gotta know when someone is worth handcuffing and arresting and when someone is not.

Can we trust that he would have stayed there? Does him having a previous DUI account for anything?

[underscore]

Like, there were two officers, let's hesitate and wait. If one officer gets taken out, then the 2nd officer will know to move onto the next step of enforcement accordingly...

Hold up. If there's two officers, where is the second officers tazer?

[Obsideon]

With this case, it should have NEVER gotten to the handcuff stage ... what the hell was that for? Officer should have offered the guy a ride to his sister's house to sleep off the booze. You gotta know when someone is worth handcuffing and arresting and when someone is not.

I'm assuming the other officer ran his record during the conversation and noticed he had previous offenses so it was more precautionary. Who would have guessed he would have suddenly went 0-100 beast mode?

[Jmac]

With this case, it should have NEVER gotten to the handcuff stage ... what the hell was that for? Officer should have offered the guy a ride to his sister's house to sleep off the booze. You gotta know when someone is worth handcuffing and arresting and when someone is not.
Many states and provinces don’t allow you to sleep in your vehicle while drunk and it’s considered a DUI in many of those areas. I don’t know if that’s the case in Georgia, but if it’s treated as a DUI, I would imagine it’s protocol to take the individual into custody and have a blood sample taken at the station.

I don’t personally agree with that law (along with several other draconian DUI laws; BC having some of the strictest, most draconian laws in North America), but I don’t blame the officer if he was enforcing the law. It’s up to law makers to institute laws that make sense for society as a whole.

[SkinnyPupp]

Many states and provinces don’t allow you to sleep in your vehicle while drunk and it’s considered a DUI in many of those areas. I don’t know if that’s the case in Georgia, but if it’s treated as a DUI, I would imagine it’s protocol to take the individual into custody and have a blood sample taken at the station.

I don’t personally agree with that law (along with several other draconian DUI laws; BC having some of the strictest, most draconian laws in North America), but I don’t blame the officer if he was enforcing the law. It’s up to law makers to institute laws that make sense for society as a whole.
According to this article (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/06/17/rayshard-brooks-video-legal-experts-analyze-key-moments-shooting/3202332001/) where legal experts watch the whole scene, the police had the option to let him go.

Up to that point, police had not administered a breathalyzer test. Harris said that test may not have been necessary if Brooks was willing and able to walk home, therefore not endangering the public by driving while impaired.

“It might be that lots of officers would make the arrest anyway. But there is a choice being made here. The police do not have to arrest him. They don’t even have to give him a breath test,” Harris said. The officer could have said “OK, leave the car there, leave the keys with me and I’ll drive the keys over to sister’s house and you walk home. Or I’ll give you a ride or get an Uber or whatever.

“Nobody says he has to make an arrest here. The law does not require it.”

This is an example of what I was talking about earlier - Cops acting more like social workers in keeping the streets safe, rather than enforcers.

[Ferra]

With this case, it should have NEVER gotten to the handcuff stage ... what the hell was that for? Officer should have offered the guy a ride to his sister's house to sleep off the booze. You gotta know when someone is worth handcuffing and arresting and when someone is not.
Is this sarcasm I am not getting?

You want the cops to let go of a man who's been drinking and driving, and give him a ride home?

[whitev70r]

No, not sarcasm. He was drunk, PARKED in a Wendy's lot. Situation was under control for a good 30 -40 mins. Leave the car in the lot, give the guy a ride home (or his sister''s), give the guy a break, hope he learns his lesson, you've settled the situation. You go home to your family, he goes home, you're not charged for murder.

In this climate, a white cop giving a black man a break would have turned out 1000x better than how they actually went about it.

[Obsideon]

From what I read, he was literally passed out in the drive-thru lane. So he drove there wasted and was clearly still attempting to drive.
How is that any different from getting caught driving through a Granville bridge road block drunk? Do you expect the VPD there to ask you nicely to step out so they can chauffeur you home and tuck you in?

[SkinnyPupp]

From what I read, he was literally passed out in the drive-thru lane. So he drove there wasted and was clearly still attempting to drive.
How is that any different from getting caught driving through a Granville bridge road block drunk? Do you expect the VPD there to ask you nicely to step out so they can chauffeur you home and tuck you in?
Without getting into personal details, I can tell you that I know people who have been pulled over in various states of drunkenness, and have been let off with warnings. (not anyone FN though, never heard of that happening although I'm sure it's happened)

Meanwhile I got suspended for my N sign falling over, 1 week after they were introduced LUL (and also accused of being high, because I was in a good mood)

[whitev70r]

For those of you who are familiar with the story Les Miserables? Who is the hero of the story? Javert, law and order police? The priest who gave Jean Valjean a break and the candlesticks to make a better life? Or, Jean Valjean, who turned his life around because of that one act of kindness?

[mikemhg]

It also took me many posts to understand that a public forum for cars isn't the right place to be having a mature, educated, and informed discussion about this. Which probably explains why I don't normally check or post on the scene.

I'm going to hop back off of this. I wish that those reading have learned something from our posts or took a perspective they're not normally comfortable taking. I appreciate the time you've put into your replies.

You are in my boat Xu, I feel exactly the same.

I appreciate your posts though, you clearly have a deep background on this subject, and you've taken the time to post very clear concise points and arguments. As Skinny had said earlier, we all have busy lives, and you've taken the time to have a respectful discussion, along with providing non-anecdotal facts.

Much respect to you, and I'm glad we have people like you working in the DTES.

[mikemhg]

I'm really conflicted about the shooting in Atlanta.

On one hand, I find it quite telling that the other officer is testifying against the officer that opened fire. That takes a high level of intestinal fortitude, as I have no doubt that officer will be ostracized for taking that stance. Something must've been fishy if that officer is willing to put his job on the line to testify against his partner.

One has to wonder as well, if the man was white, would that officer have been more lenient? How often do we see white kids that commit petty crimes, and get a mere slap on the hand, meanwhile when we see a black kid commit the same crime, he's charged as an adult, and slapped with a life ending felony? We watched a documentary last night on that very subject, in fact.

In my opinion, you should never try and fight the police when getting arrested, that in itself is a death sentence. Why is the guy even being arrested? I've seen many friends get a DUI and go home in a cab right from the scene, the guy wasn't driving, suspend his license, tow the car, and call it a day.

Him fighting the cop, and running away with a taser was his death sentence, and that's why I'm conflicted on that one. At the end of the day though, he was running away, not running at the officer. So why open fire? Is that REALLY necessary? It's the same way the police here in Canada will not chase a fleeing vehicle, it's dangerous and puts others at risk, it's far easier to simply show up at the guy's house when it's all said and done.

Why not let the guy piss off, you have all his information, pick him up later that night for fleeing arrest. To open fire and kill him as your first option, meanwhile you have another officer with you as backup? It doesn't make sense.

I realize cops are humans too, but if you join that particular line of work, you are held to a higher standard. When a doctor botches a surgery, do we simply say "Oh well, he's only human". Of course not, doctors are held at an extremely high standard where there is very little room for mistakes.

Why aren't police held to that same standard?

Either way, here we are arguing about this one, where in the same state Ahmaud Arbery was shot dead in cold blood simply for jogging in broad daylight by an ex-police officer/investigator, with two district attorneys, and a judge who tried to cover it up.

We've seen hangings over the last few weeks that have initially been concluded as suicides, with the families pushing for further investigations. As a black man, who the hell hangs themselves from a tree nowadays, no chair, or anything? It seems very odd, given the history in the US. In New York, some people are putting up hanging nooses from trees.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-06-18/robert-fuller-malcolm-harsch-lynching-palmdale-victorville-hanging-black-brother

https://www.ajc.com/news/people-color-have-died-recent-string-hangings-across-country/dwYcL9kK7vRYn4Zqw0f1gL/

Stinks like a cover up to me, and I don't blame them, if it comes out that these men were killed in modern-day lynchings, there will be absolute hell to pay.

All of these issues are so obviously apparent here that the arguments in this thread seem all too ridiculous.

[welfare]

I realize cops are humans too, but if you join that particular line of work, you are held to a higher standard. When a doctor botches a surgery, do we simply say "Oh well, he's only human". Of course not, doctors are held at an extremely high standard where there is very little room for mistakes.

Why aren't police held to that same standard?

There are hundreds of thousands of deaths caused by medical malpractice in the states. It's like the third leading cause of death.
Canada's numbers are about the same when adjusting for population.
If doctors operated at the same level of standard as police, we'd be lucky.

[underscore]

There are hundreds of thousands of deaths caused by medical malpractice in the states. It's like the third leading cause of death.
Canada's numbers are about the same when adjusting for population.
If doctors operated at the same level of standard as police, we'd be lucky.

Where are you seeing that? If you search this for "Complications of medical and surgical care" it's the lowest for the few groups it's even listed for. They add up to something like 29 per 100k people.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr68/nvsr68_06-508.pdf

[welfare]

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/media/releases/study_suggests_medical_errors_now_third_leading_ca use_of_death_in_the_us

[whitev70r]

I just got sent the video and a link to the guy's google page. His Facebook page has been shut down and his google reviews are in the toilet.

Manic! You must be happy in contributing to the escalation between these 2 families and their businesses ... with a lot of collateral damage along the way. You're a DB and hopefully, mods will delete these kinds of posts in the future and not add to this kind of online vigilante justice. It's online violence ... there is no other way to describe it.

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/shocking-video-of-racist-taunts-prompts-backlash-vigilantism-1.4990904

The Cheemas received negative reviews of their business on social media, and Riddoch posted the surveillance video on Saturday.

Karn Cheema posted his father’s cellphone video in response. That has been shared at least 300,000 times on various platforms.

And the backlash involved threats to Riddoch’s father’s business, vandalism, and “explicit threats to violently attack, sexually assault and murder myself and my family,” Riddoch posted.

[Ch28]

Manic! You must be happy in contributing to the escalation between these 2 families and their businesses ... with a lot of collateral damage along the way. You're a DB and hopefully, mods will delete these kinds of posts in the future and not add to this kind of online vigilante justice. It's online violence ... there is no other way to describe it.

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/shocking-video-of-racist-taunts-prompts-backlash-vigilantism-1.4990904

The Cheemas received negative reviews of their business on social media, and Riddoch posted the surveillance video on Saturday.

Karn Cheema posted his father’s cellphone video in response. That has been shared at least 300,000 times on various platforms.

And the backlash involved threats to Riddoch’s father’s business, vandalism, and “explicit threats to violently attack, sexually assault and murder myself and my family,” Riddoch posted.

Kayl Riddoch, seen in the video, said the racist comments he said were made in the heat of the moment and were out of character.

“I will never forget what I did and I will feel shame and regret over this forever,” he said.

He's only sorry that he was caught.

[Manic!]

Manic! You must be happy in contributing to the escalation between these 2 families and their businesses ... with a lot of collateral damage along the way. You're a DB and hopefully, mods will delete these kinds of posts in the future and not add to this kind of online vigilante justice. It's online violence ... there is no other way to describe it.

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/shocking-video-of-racist-taunts-prompts-backlash-vigilantism-1.4990904

The Cheemas received negative reviews of their business on social media, and Riddoch posted the surveillance video on Saturday.

Karn Cheema posted his father’s cellphone video in response. That has been shared at least 300,000 times on various platforms.

And the backlash involved threats to Riddoch’s father’s business, vandalism, and “explicit threats to violently attack, sexually assault and murder myself and my family,” Riddoch posted.

Is the white guy your buddy? Just like Jagmeet Singh, I will not let racists hide. I will post every time it happens.

[StylinRed]

With regard to Rayshard Brooks, he was drunk, and parked blocking the drive thru, really he should've just been thrown in the drunk tank for the night, or in an extremely ideal world, taken home to sleep it off.

The former is what was going to happen, but he wasn't just running away with a stolen police weapon, he pointed it at police, and supposedly fired it too, that prompts an instantaneous reaction, thanks to training, the officer has no time to reason out the possibilities.

I don't believe the charges will stick, I think the only reason he was even charged is due to the current climate, because the video evidence itself exonerated the officer.

And for the Surrey incident, I'm shocked he'd dare to be so grossly racist against South Asians there, you know he's only sorry because that video was uploaded.

[unit]

He's only sorry that he was caught.

that's a bingo. the guy was doubling down on his hateful shit for days after the videos were out on facebook. even his mom was backing him. POS family, only sorry they felt the consequences. saying racist shit in the heat of the moment doesn't make you less of a racist. you could just call people fucking assholes or tell them you fucked their mum last night like a normal person.

[Jmac]

CTV bleeps swears in video then types them out uncensored in the story. :fulloffuck:

[Phozy]

Yup, the privilege is palpable. Trying to shame the business and not handling it like adults...POS and only sorry they're caught.

[twitchyzero]

are these the people we banging our pots for at 7pm? FailFish

reports of health-care staff playing a racist game betting on the blood alcohol level of mainly Indigenous patients they were treating

https://globalnews.ca/news/7085230/bc-health-care-racist-allegations/?utm_source=site_banner_persistant

less off topic, uncle ben's also changing up their branding

That reticence can be traced to the contentious history of Uncle Ben as the black face of a white company, wearing a bow tie evocative of servants and Pullman porters and bearing a title reflecting how white Southerners once used “uncle” and “aunt” as honorifics for older blacks because they refused to say “Mr.” and “Mrs.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/30/business/media/30adco.html?ex=1176782400&en=fac51117ccc2daa5&ei=5070

interestingly in asian circles, uncle/aunty is what you call friends and acquaintances your parents age out of respect

in b4 justice bao is unacceptable

https://epochtimes.today/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Is-Justice-Bao-Face-Really-Black-678x381.jpg

[whitev70r]

Is the white guy your buddy? Just like Jagmeet Singh, I will not let racists hide. I will post every time it happens.

I've been harping on vigilante justice a number of times here. The issue isn't whether I liked what the white guy did or not, whether he apologized because he was caught or his parents whoooped his ass into it. I think the dude in the video is a DB as well ... kind of like you .... but I still wouldn't post shit like that and bring his family business down.

[unit]

if you saw the fb posts on the topic, his family chimed in and supported his behavior.

[Manic!]

I've been harping on vigilante justice a number of times here. The issue isn't whether I liked what the white guy did or not, whether he apologized because he was caught or his parents whoooped his ass into it. I think the dude in the video is a DB as well ... kind of like you .... but I still wouldn't post shit like that and bring his family business down.

As soon as you bring race into it all bets are off. Maybe if his parents raised him better but his parents are no different. I am not going to coddle a piece of shit racist. The fact you want to protect a racist speaks volumes.

[underscore]

CTV bleeps swears in video then types them out uncensored in the story. :fulloffuck:

The logic might be that kids can overhear a video, but you can't really "overhear" text.

[whitev70r]

I just got sent the video and a link to the guy's google page. His Facebook page has been shut down and his google reviews are in the toilet.

if you saw the fb posts on the topic, his family chimed in and supported his behavior.

You still think it was a good idea for Manic! to post it here?

[unit]

All im saying is their family are all pieces of shit and they got what they asked for.

[Manic!]

A new movie where whites are slaves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3vFw5y-LrM

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BNjdhYTQwMzEtNWFiOC00NTE4LTk1OWQtZDVhZTA3ZGI0Mj QzXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNTM4MzY4Nzc@._V1_UY268_CR19,0,18 2,268_AL_.jpg

[Alpine]

All this race shit is just a distraction. ALL of us are slaves to the 1% (or 0.01%, whatever you wish to call it). Protestors should be going after the current and present enslavers.

[Jmac]

I don’t think it’s a distraction at all. It’s been going on far too long, IMO.

As for high income earners ...

According to Statistics Canada in 2017, these were the earnings threshold for X%.

Top 10%: $96,000
Top 1%: $236,000 (99% of RS regulars fit into this category)
Top 0.1%: $740,300
Top 0.01%: $2,705,800

[Infiniti]

I don’t think it’s a distraction at all. It’s been going on far too long, IMO.

As for high income earners ...

According to Statistics Canada in 2017, these were the earnings threshold for X%.

Top 10%: $96,000
Top 1%: $236,000 (99% of RS regulars fit into this category)
Top 0.1%: $740,300
Top 0.01%: $2,705,800

Asking for a friend (something about "wanting to know where they really stand"), but could you post the bottom percentage earnings thresholds. Thx!

[1337]

I don’t think it’s a distraction at all. It’s been going on far too long, IMO.

As for high income earners ...

According to Statistics Canada in 2017, these were the earnings threshold for X%.

Top 10%: $96,000
Top 1%: $236,000 (99% of RS regulars fit into this category)
Top 0.1%: $740,300
Top 0.01%: $2,705,800

Net Worth is a better measure of accumulated weath. To get to the top 0.01% you need to have a net worth of over $100M.

[underscore]

It's also relative to the cost of living in a given area.

[Jmac]

Asking for a friend (something about "wanting to know where they really stand"), but could you post the bottom percentage earnings thresholds. Thx!
Earnings thresholds
Top 0.005%: $4,137,200
Top 0.01%: $2,705,800
Top 0.05%: $1,090,800
Top 0.1%: $740,300
Top 0.5%: $323,500
Top 1%: $236,000
Top 2.5%: $162,300
Top 5%: $124,100
Top 10%: $96,000
Top 25%: $61,700
Top 50%: $35,100
Top 75%: $17,800

Earnings thresholds including capital gains
Top 0.005%: $5,547,500 (+$1,410,300)
Top 0.01%: $3,596,500 (+$890,700)
Top 0.05%: $1,392,600 (+$301,800)
Top 0.1%: $947,600 (+$207,300)
Top 0.5%: $377,300 (+$53,800)
Top 1%: $262,700 (+$26,700)
Top 2.5%: $172,900 (+$10,600)
Top 5%: $129,200 (+$5,100)
Top 10%: $98,300 (+$2,300)
Top 25%: $62,900 (+$1,200)
Top 50%: $35,700 (+$600)
Top 75%: $18,100 (+$300)

[westopher]

That's a sad set of numbers to look at. You realistically need to be in the top 10% to be even close to financially stable in the majority of Canada. (If this is household income, which I'm not sure.)

[Jmac]

That's a sad set of numbers to look at. You realistically need to be in the top 10% to be even close to financially stable in the majority of Canada. (If this is household income, which I'm not sure.)
It's by tax filer

You can also see in this graph that the high-income earners are earning far more than they used to while low-income earners are falling well behind.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/pub/11-630-x/2016009/c-g/c-g02-eng.png

It should be noted that, according to Statistics Canada, the bottom 5% reported zero or negative income for tax year 2017.

[320icar]

I’m still waiting for that trickle down economics to kick in

[mikemhg]

It's by tax filer

You can also see in this graph that the high-income earners are earning far more than they used to while low-income earners are falling well behind.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/pub/11-630-x/2016009/c-g/c-g02-eng.png

It should be noted that, according to Statistics Canada, the bottom 5% reported zero or negative income for tax year 2017.

The race to the bottom continues.

[GS8]

Life for me was never about whether I was left or right.

It was about whether I was up or down.

[Hehe]

It's by tax filer

You can also see in this graph that the high-income earners are earning far more than they used to while low-income earners are falling well behind.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/pub/11-630-x/2016009/c-g/c-g02-eng.png

It should be noted that, according to Statistics Canada, the bottom 5% reported zero or negative income for tax year 2017.

It's not hard to reason. The top earners have far more disposable income leftover for investing. A regular Joe would spend most of the income sustaining necessities in life.

Nevertheless, we also have to remember that the top 10% earners in Canada make about 1/3 of all income in Canada, but they pay over HALF of the taxes.

IMHO though, the problem with income disparity is the way high income earners spend their money. Yes, you have some ballers that would go out and spend their millions, but the vast majority of people, who I can easily see them cracking the 0.01% based on the chart you posted earlier, their expense is completely out of portion relative to their income.

[Jmac]

The top earners still had more income to invest in 1982. As they did in 1972. And 1962. And 1952.

The difference is that policies have grossly favoured top earners/corporations over the past 4 decades, resulting in low- and middle-income earners getting shafted while the rich cry about taxes and class warfare any time the growing disparity is brought up. The class warfare has been waged on the lower- and middle-classes for decades; the upper-class just wasn't overt about it.

[twitchyzero]

90th %ile is still survival mode in Vancouver

[!LittleDragon]

I can't remember where but I recently read that the top 2% in Canada pay 54% of the taxes and that 40% pay no taxes at all when taking into account the government services used.

The rich should be spending that money instead of hoarding it. The taxes on a V12 Lambo are more than what most people make in a year or even 5 years in some cases.

[whitev70r]

That's why people like Trump always find ways to report losses and never pay a dime of taxes. What do you think he is hiding?

[Digitalis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9O1fz3Sa5Wk&feature=emb_logo

[Manic!]

The rich should be spending that money instead of hoarding it. The taxes on a V12 Lambo are more than what most people make in a year or even 5 years in some cases.

There is only so much stuff you can buy before you run out of things to buy or run out of space.

[Hehe]

That's why people like Trump always find ways to report losses and never pay a dime of taxes. What do you think he is hiding?

This shit has been said far too often.

Unfortunately, too many simply take this as a rant to the riches and never think what to do with that information.

You know what? Not even just Trump... take Biden, Obama, Rooney... etc, they ALL use some sort of tax strategy to minimize taxes.

I have first-hand experience on the topic, and let me tell you, it's sometimes FailFish sad to see people only visit their accountant once a year when they do taxes.

Some of my F&F are in the 0.01%, and ALL of them have some tax structure set up in order to minimize their tax liability. Of course, the one they use are highly sophisticated and the whole setup cost alone is 6-figures plus a yearly high 4, and sometimes 5figures maintenance fee. But the important part of this? It's an INVESTMENT into your finances.

If you only have a single income stream and it's salary, well... there isn't much you can do. But as soon as you start investing, be it stock, RE portfolio, or even just some side gigs... my suggestion, spend a few hundred bucks in consultation with a good accountant and see how to optimize your taxes according to your investment plan and expectations for the next 5-10years.

It bothers me that our tax system is so complicated that we'd have to resort to this. But it's also our own problem if we don't make the most out of the system while we complain about it.

[Jmac]

I can't remember where but I recently read that the top 2% in Canada pay 54% of the taxes and that 40% pay no taxes at all when taking into account the government services used.

The rich should be spending that money instead of hoarding it. The taxes on a V12 Lambo are more than what most people make in a year or even 5 years in some cases.
Even conservative-leaning Fraser Institute’s numbers aren’t even close to that.

The top 1 percent of income earners is often targeted as the group that should pay higher taxes, so this group warrants special focus. However, the top 1 percent’s collective share of total taxes paid (14.7 percent) is greater than its share of total income earned (10.7 percent). This amounts to a gap of 36.9 percent between the share of taxes paid and the income earned by the top 1 percent. Notably, over time, the top 1 percent’s share of total taxes paid has increased from 11.3 percent in 1997 to 14.7 percent in 2017.

[!LittleDragon]

There is only so much stuff you can buy before you run out of things to buy or run out of space.

Sell the stuff, buy new stuff. When eating out, buy the $500 bottle of wine instead of the $30 bottle. Stay at the 5 star instead of the 2 star. Take the limo from the airport instead of a cab. There's more ways to spend money than buying stuff.

[Manic!]

Look who is out of jail and buying oreo's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgS5OcM2Ng0

[twitchyzero]

good job harassing the black officer who was 4 days into his career..and since paid $750k for the crime and carry the nation's guilt

and ffs, perez hilton as the source?

[unit]

he didnt pay 750k, that was how much bail he had to post. once he shows up to court he gets it back

[Manic!]

good job harassing the black officer who was 4 days into his career..and since paid $750k for the crime and carry the nation's guilt

and ffs, perez hilton as the source?

The source is the person who shot the video. Multiple sites have posted it. This was the only copy on YouTube at the time. You really should check out how bail works it a mess in the states. He did not pay 750k. 4 years or 4 days does not matter. He should have used a little common sense. If he didn't do anything because he was scared that's a problem.

Edit: here is the New York Times covering it. https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2020/06/21/ex-cop-in-george-floyd-case-accosted-while-grocery-shopping/amp/

[whitev70r]

good job harassing the black officer who was 4 days into his career..and since paid $750k for the crime and carry the nation's guilt

and ffs, perez hilton as the source?

Don't worry about Manic!'s posts, he likes to increase his post counts, and just keep on circulating stupid shit.

I give the guy in the vid props for not losing his cool.

I think I'm going to learn from welfare in this, put Manic! on ignore list and your experience here on RS might be a LOT better.

[Manic!]

https://www.ctvnews.ca/sports/fbi-investigating-noose-left-in-nascar-stall-of-black-driver-1.4994036

FBI investigating noose left in NASCAR stall of Black driver

Authorities on Monday confirmed they are investigating the discovery of a noose found in the Talladega Superspeedway garage stall of Bubba Wallace, NASCAR's only Black full-time driver who successfully pushed the stock car series to ban the Confederate flag at its venues earlier this month.

[StylinRed]

Look who is out of jail and buying oreo's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgS5OcM2Ng0

that's a Chinese guy? surname Keung

guy is just trying to buy food yeesh

[mikemhg]

https://www.ctvnews.ca/sports/fbi-investigating-noose-left-in-nascar-stall-of-black-driver-1.4994036

FBI investigating noose left in NASCAR stall of Black driver

Oh Nascar, but yes you banned the Confederate Flag, so all is good, hey? :lol

It's absolutely insane that this garbage is happening and you still have some in this thread trying to pretend there isn't an inherent racist cultural issue here that requires SERIOUS attention and addressing.

Big balls to any black driver that gets into Nascar, some prior black drivers have literally had their brake lines cut in practice (back in the day).

Fuck the US man, I'm sick of this shit.

By the way, for that video harassing that officer, I don't support that. He kept his cool, he clearly isn't reveling at what happened here, his life is ruined at this point.

If that was that Chauvin prick, or that Tao asshole, I'd support it, but not this guy, his story is certainly different. He's a coward, for sure, but doesn't deserve that abuse in public.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/21/us/derek-chauvin-detention-police-officers.html
https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/minority-officers-allege-discrimination-over-chauvin-booking-1.4993602

Isn't that nice, the jail has removed all black officers from watching Mr. Chauvin. So he gets a surrounding cast of white guards, how accommodating. I guess black guards aren't credible enough to do their job professionally? Wouldn't it be nice if black inmates were offered the same compromise.

Reports of these white guards allowing Chauvin to use their cell phones as well.

FYI, this will now trigger another state investigation of racism by the Department of Human Rights.

This is what we're talking about when we say "systemic" issues. Even with the national attention put forward on this whole problem, the establishment cannot stop itself from continuing its ingrained ways.

Absolutely insane.

[Ronin]

Cops driving around Harlem at 3AM with their sirens on so no one can sleep...

https://www.reddit.com/r/2020PoliceBrutality/comments/hduu3h/nypd_drives_around_harlem_with_their_sirens_on_at/

[mikemhg]

https://www.tmz.com/2020/06/21/plane-confederate-flag-flies-over-nascar-race/

Coordinated protests outside Geici 500 today with truckers and vehicles raising the flag. A plane also flew over the race with the flag:

https://imagez.tmz.com/image/dd/4by3/2020/06/21/dd319e0bfab84baeb9afe7d447c3fa79_md.jpg

Like I said before, fuck Nascar and its fans. Nascar banned the flag for simple PR, in 2018 the organization had its record lowest viewership. Nascar has long been on the downward trend to obscurity. I have no doubt the only reason they banned the flag was to garner national attention and relevancy.

Its fans won't change, and have no intentions to, Nascar knows this. More corporate virtue signaling bullshit.

I can't tell you how much I despise and hate these people.

[mikemhg]

Cops driving around Harlem at 3AM with their sirens on so no one can sleep...

https://www.reddit.com/r/2020PoliceBrutality/comments/hduu3h/nypd_drives_around_harlem_with_their_sirens_on_at/

I saw this too. Good use of tax payers funds huh? I thought the narrative was to respect your community, but it's fine when cops protest and disrupt ones themselves? This hypocrisy has no bounds.

No problem here though, good cops everywhere, only a few bad apples. Why would anyone want to defund the police? :lol

[CivicBlues]

By the way, for that video harassing that officer, I don't support that. He kept his cool, he clearly isn't reveling at what happened here, his life is ruined at this point.

If that was that Chauvin prick, or that Tao asshole, I'd support it, but not this guy, his story is certainly different. He's a coward, for sure, but doesn't deserve that abuse in public.



Just curious why you think this? Wasn't Tou Thao the Asian cop who stood by and watched? The other 2 guys were the ones that held Floyd down while Chauvin choked him? Also, Keung is still the only guy that made bail out of the 4 right? Where'd he get the cash I wonder? $750k.

[birddog3k]

https://scontent.fper6-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/104496835_275472650559903_3609313109413862821_o.jp g?_nc_cat=108&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=VsvSD1omMKUAX_yJHQT&_nc_ht=scontent.fper6-1.fna&_nc_tp=7&oh=4df4be7253eb1491523fc87a58ba43c4&oe=5F13C459

[mikemhg]

Just curious why you think this? Wasn't Tou Thao the Asian cop who stood by and watched? The other 2 guys were the ones that held Floyd down while Chauvin choked him? Also, Keung is still the only guy that made bail out of the 4 right? Where'd he get the cash I wonder? $750k.

I particularly have an issue with Thao as he was the officer holding people back from intervening, as well, he had full view of Floyd and saw what the man was going through firsthand. He didn't try to stop Chauvin, nor did he allow the watchers to jump in.

I see him was the lookout guy on an actual murder. That's why I hold him differently than this Keung fellow.

[welfare]

Oh Nascar, but yes you banned the Confederate Flag, so all is good, hey? :lol

It's absolutely insane that this garbage is happening and you still have some in this thread trying to pretend there isn't an inherent racist cultural issue here that requires SERIOUS attention and addressing.

Yea i think I'll reserve judgment on this until all the facts come out.
Seem to be a whole lot of these "nooses" popping up recently :rukidding:
https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2020-06-18/nooses-in-oakland-park-were-exercise-aids-man-says

https://www.thecity.nyc/2020/6/17/21294910/noose-found-in-harlem-park

https://www.al.com/news/birmingham/2020/06/birmingham-police-investigate-possible-siting-of-noose-in-kelly-ingram-park.html

[unit]

^you're kidding right? is there any reason you can possibly think of for why a noose would be in the one black guys car at a nascar race? you can't say someone was exercising in the car, or a leftover movie prop, or part of an exhibition... smh seriously.

[CivicBlues]

I particularly have an issue with Thao as he was the officer holding people back from intervening, as well, he had full view of Floyd and saw what the man was going through firsthand. He didn't try to stop Chauvin, nor did he allow the watchers to jump in.

I see him was the lookout guy on an actual murder. That's why I hold him differently than this Keung fellow.

okay fair enough, but why does Keung get a pass for actually holding down Floyd while he was being choked to death?

[StylinRed]

He had only worked 3 shifts, and was following the orders of his trainer (chauvin) supposedly he also asked a number of times to have Floyd moved to lay on his side? (dont know that's just what I read)

As for bail, iirc you only need to post 10% of it to be bailed out, so $75k, and if he owns a house he can put that down, or just family

[twitchyzero]

ok i'm an idiot that doesnt know how bail works in US

still think harassing him is wrong, what can he do at this point, ask the judge to put him in the electric chair?

[unit]

He had only worked 3 shifts, and was following the orders of his trainer (chauvin) supposedly he also asked a number of times to have Floyd moved to lay on his side? (dont know that's just what I read)

As for bail, iirc you only need to post 10% of it to be bailed out, so $75k, and if he owns a house he can put that down, or just family

10% is a bail bond which you don't get back if i'm not mistaken.
if you can come up with the whole amount, then you get it all back.

actually i also agree that harrassing is wrong in this case. the guy is still in the legal process. i'd be more for it if he got off totally scot free, but at least wait till the process is carried out before trying to do some vigilante shit.
thao and chauvin were veterans, lane and keung were rookies. lane even made comments to chauvin that showed concern about chauvins handling of floyd.

[mikemhg]

okay fair enough, but why does Keung get a pass for actually holding down Floyd while he was being choked to death?

From the reports I read, he was on the end, holding the feet. His actual body wasn't on his back like the other officers. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, it was his 4th day on shift.

Trust me, I'm not giving him a pass, he deserves to lose his job, and possibly be charged, but if I was going to give any leniency on any of the officers, it would be him.

Also to add Civic, Thao has had a bunch of complaints against him as well.

[mikemhg]

^you're kidding right? is there any reason you can possibly think of for why a noose would be in the one black guys car at a nascar race? you can't say someone was exercising in the car, or a leftover movie prop, or part of an exhibition... smh seriously.

He's trolling.

[Tegra_Devil]

^you're kidding right? is there any reason you can possibly think of for why a noose would be in the one black guys car at a nascar race? you can't say someone was exercising in the car, or a leftover movie prop, or part of an exhibition... smh seriously.

I agree with that it was real.......but that french actor....Jussie Smollett, cried wolf. :lol:lol

[Manic!]

ok i'm an idiot that doesnt know how bail works in US

still think harassing him is wrong, what can he do at this point, ask the judge to put him in the electric chair?

I expect some common sense. Protests are happening around the world because of something you where involved in, so maybe just stay at home.

[Hehe]

ok i'm an idiot that doesnt know how bail works in US

still think harassing him is wrong, what can he do at this point, ask the judge to put him in the electric chair?

This is the fucked up part of social justice.

The way our justice works is that you are innocent until proven guilty beyond any reasonable doubts.

Instead, these people just cast their opinion upon them without the slightest room for arguments. This is prejudice. This is the very thing they all so despise about.

And what happens when the law gives a favorable judgment to those accused? The social justice group actually feel angry and feel that it's unfair.

They have ZERO empathy. They are only doing this because it seems to be the "cool" thing to do. Wait until something similar happen to yourself. Wouldn't you want people give you the benefit of doubt before judgment?

To show you how hypocritical this whole thing is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RrPqaLwgOU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCPcM8GlptM

It's always for the greater good until it applies to yourself. Suddenly, it becomes a problem.

And the worse part? People don't fucking understand what true socialism is.

The closest we have to true socialism are Scandinavian countries like Norway, Sweden... etc where there is an extremely high level of education, morality, value, socioeconomic strength to make socialism works.

See this example:
Socialism In The Classroom
An economics professor at Texas Tech said he had never failed a single student, but had once failed an entire class.

The class (students) insisted that socialism worked since no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer. The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on socialism."

"All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A," said the professor.

After the first test the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who had studied hard were upset while the students who had studied very little were happy.

But, as the second test rolled around, the students who had studied little studied even less and the ones who had studied hard decided that since they couldn't make an A, they also studied less. The second Test average was a D.

No one was happy. When the 3rd test rolled around the average grade was an F.

The scores never increased as bickering, blame, name calling, all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for anyone else.

To their great surprise they all failed.

The professor told them that socialism, too, would ultimately fail because of the same basic human principles of incentive.

The harder people try to succeed the greater their reward (capitalism), but when a government takes all the reward away (socialism) no one will try or succeed.

This is the problem of introducing socialism to a crowd when they are not ready. You keep removing/lowering the bar... until everything is rock bottom. No one would even try to be better unless they have ways to separate themselves somehow from the system.

I see this firsthand in Argentina. Their entire population is 43MM. 45.7% of it (just under 20MM) receives gov't subsidy, and 12MM active workers are trying to sustain the system. It just DOESN'T work.

Scandinavian people can pull it off. In fact, Norway has benefits so good... that you can show up on day1 at work, then claim that you have been traumatized by working (somehow) and the gov't would basically pay you for the rest of your life.

When I asked my Norwegian friends "wouldn't someone exploit the system?"
The answer? "Technically, yes... but why would you want to do that if you are able to work?"

That's the mentality that our society needs.

Stop with this "I always did good, it's all because of the system" bullshit. I have seen too many cases of success when they had everything going against them to believe that.

[320icar]

Great video and I thought it was a very good thought experiment. Only issue is if you average out a campus, amount of work/effort has a direct link to grade. Whereas wage/wealth does not always have a direct link to how hard your job is.

I highly doubt a lot of my upper management at corporate who make 500k a year (I’m not saying their job is easy) literally work 9x harder than I do in an 8 hour day. Same goes for those grades.

Edit: often I think of peoples life choices and wage. You have some people working crazy hard like a landscaper making dirt money (heheh) but busts their body every day. Or you could be a janitor and also make pennies.... or be a janitor on an oil rig and still pull 90k a year. I know I’m rambling but my point is nothing is black or white

[Jmac]

This is the fucked up part of social justice.

The way our justice works is that you are innocent until proven guilty beyond any reasonable doubts.

Instead, these people just cast their opinion upon them without the slightest room for arguments. This is prejudice. This is the very thing they all so despise about.

And what happens when the law gives a favorable judgment to those accused? The social justice group actually feel angry and feel that it's unfair.

They have ZERO empathy. They are only doing this because it seems to be the "cool" thing to do. Wait until something similar happen to yourself. Wouldn't you want people give you the benefit of doubt before judgment?

To show you how hypocritical this whole thing is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RrPqaLwgOU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCPcM8GlptM

It's always for the greater good until it applies to yourself. Suddenly, it becomes a problem.

And the worse part? People don't fucking understand what true socialism is.

The closest we have to true socialism are Scandinavian countries like Norway, Sweden... etc where there is an extremely high level of education, morality, value, socioeconomic strength to make socialism works.

See this example:
Socialism In The Classroom
An economics professor at Texas Tech said he had never failed a single student, but had once failed an entire class.

The class (students) insisted that socialism worked since no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer. The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on socialism."

"All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A," said the professor.

After the first test the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who had studied hard were upset while the students who had studied very little were happy.

But, as the second test rolled around, the students who had studied little studied even less and the ones who had studied hard decided that since they couldn't make an A, they also studied less. The second Test average was a D.

No one was happy. When the 3rd test rolled around the average grade was an F.

The scores never increased as bickering, blame, name calling, all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for anyone else.

To their great surprise they all failed.

The professor told them that socialism, too, would ultimately fail because of the same basic human principles of incentive.

The harder people try to succeed the greater their reward (capitalism), but when a government takes all the reward away (socialism) no one will try or succeed.

This is the problem of introducing socialism to a crowd when they are not ready. You keep removing/lowering the bar... until everything is rock bottom. No one would even try to be better unless they have ways to separate themselves somehow from the system.

I see this firsthand in Argentina. Their entire population is 43MM. 45.7% of it (just under 20MM) receives gov't subsidy, and 12MM active workers are trying to sustain the system. It just DOESN'T work.

Scandinavian people can pull it off. In fact, Norway has benefits so good... that you can show up on day1 at work, then claim that you have been traumatized by working (somehow) and the gov't would basically pay you for the rest of your life.

When I asked my Norwegian friends "wouldn't someone exploit the system?"
The answer? "Technically, yes... but why would you want to do that if you are able to work?"

That's the mentality that our society needs.

Stop with this "I always did good, it's all because of the system" bullshit. I have seen too many cases of success when they had everything going against them to believe that.
Innocent until proven guilty is a major thing that social justice warriors seem to have no time for. I was listening to some of my friends talk about the MeToo movement and one of them, a self-described and proud SJW, said we should imprison any of the accused sexual abusers until proven innocent. Sure, some innocent men may be imprisoned, but that's a small price to pay. Me ... :fulloffuck:

The existing cancel culture is complete BS and needs to be reigned the fuck in big time.

As for your socialism stuff, market capitalism has been a thing for over a century and still maintains the profit motive. That story is also fabricated according to Snopes (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/social-injustice/). It's just straight up right-wing propaganda.

[Jmac]

Great video and I thought it was a very good thought experiment. Only issue is if you average out a campus, amount of work/effort has a direct link to grade. Whereas wage/wealth does not always have a direct link to how hard your job is.

I highly doubt a lot of my upper management at corporate who make 500k a year (I’m not saying their job is easy) literally work 9x harder than I do in an 8 hour day. Same goes for those grades.

Edit: often I think of peoples life choices and wage. You have some people working crazy hard like a landscaper making dirt money (heheh) but busts their body every day. Or you could be a janitor and also make pennies.... or be a janitor on an oil rig and still pull 90k a year. I know I’m rambling but my point is nothing is black or white I think we all know a lot of people who worked in the oil industry between 2005-2015 and most people who had low-end jobs weren't making bank because of their hourly wage, they were doing so because of the amount of overtime worked. That clearly hasn't been the case for a few years. No janitor is getting $90k/year in the oil fields these days.

[underscore]

Innocent until proven guilty is a major thing that social justice warriors seem to have no time for. I was listening to some of my friends talk about the MeToo movement and one of them, a self-described and proud SJW, said we should imprison any of the accused sexual abusers until proven innocent. Sure, some innocent men may be imprisoned, but that's a small price to pay. Me ... :fulloffuck:

The existing cancel culture is complete BS and needs to be reigned the fuck in big time.

While I agree that kind of crap has to go, it's hardly new. Witch hunts and lynch mobs were a thing and they never really died out in peoples mindset.

[welfare]

^you're kidding right? is there any reason you can possibly think of for why a noose would be in the one black guys car at a nascar race? you can't say someone was exercising in the car, or a leftover movie prop, or part of an exhibition... smh seriously.

i guess we'll find out what happened soon enough. I'm sure there are cameras covering every inch of that vicinity.

[Manic!]

So who here thinks O.J. Simpson is inoccent?

Remember the U.S. president does not believe innocent till proven guilty.

https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/fbbef0c3b1eddc6279b92e601d2dc63585397b48/0_0_970_1367/master/970.jpg?width=700&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&

[Manic!]

Have you guys seen this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyW_2uG_RV4

This is messed up. Police claim they tased him and shot rubber bullets first before killing him. It sounds like B.S. It all happens in 5 seconds.

[Hehe]

So who here thinks O.J. Simpson is inoccent?

Remember the U.S. president does not believe innocent till proven guilty.

https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/fbbef0c3b1eddc6279b92e601d2dc63585397b48/0_0_970_1367/master/970.jpg?width=700&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&


Ahhh... I had in my mind that someone would bring OJ up.

You know the thing about that case? It's a clear example that WHY the US law still works. That's why I specifically put "beyond reasonable doubts".

Criminal law 101... you'd rather let 100 murderers roam free, then put 1 innocent in jail.

OJ got away because his lawyer was so good that he created that reasonable doubt that's needed to get him out of the accusation.

Nevertheless, as Jmac has mentioned on his friend... is putting innocent people in jail a "reasonable cost"?

-------------------

For anyone following the BLM movement, I really want to share this video with you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxxHV5vu1Mo

Yeah, I know it's Fox, but really, I'm not a Tucker's fan and I had to agree to his comments.

IMO, BLM movement... at this stage is no longer about racial equality. They are just using this "movement" or the way that people are feeling right now to justify all the bad things.

And looking back at comments here... where I had some good exchanges back and forth with many... I have to really ask myself, all these points that we were discussing... are they even a part of BLM anymore. If not... is saying "I don't support BLM" or "I support BLM" even mean the same thing still?

Is BLM still fighting to address "systematic racism"... or are they becoming opportunists... given all the power the public gave them, to do what they (as personal agenda) want and no longer about racism anymore.

I am stopping to think for a while, I hope all you guys here do too.

[68style]

How do you fight something that's stacked against you and doesn't recognize you without banding together and overthrowing it or resorting to, well, mutiny? What you expect black people to do? File complaints with their local representatives who see nothing wrong with anything they're doing because perpetuation of society as it existed benefits them the most?

Do some people get carried away and start selfishly taking personal agendas into it? Sure! But so did all the oppressors... it was just... "legal" for them to because they built the system in the first place.

*edit* this is the first time I've ever seen Fucker Carlson without a bow-tie. I hope his tie gets caught in a paper shredder and takes the rest of him with it.

[welfare]

Over 100 people shot in Chicago over the weekend. 14 dead. 5 of them youth. One a three year old.

Good thing they didn't find any nooses or white perpetrators. Could have been a real tragedy.
https://abc7.com/chicago-shooting-this-weekend-news-in-60-shot/6259880/

[welfare]

This young girls tragic death last week reached national coverage, protests, and a $25k reward....when they thought the perpetrator was white.
Of course after it was found to be just another senseless killing by the fellas, nobody cared.
https://www.indeonline.com/news/20200618/akron-shooting-was-mistaken-identity-not-racially-motivated-police-say

[whitev70r]

^ don't agree much with welfare nor his subtle innuendos but all that aside for the moment, the two posts above .. kinda makes you take a step back and realize how effed the US is ... the kind of killings in the streets of big US cities is friggin unbelievable!

[GLOW]

re: tucker's video, is this level of violence just local to the US? other parts of the world are also standing up and at least in vancouver protests appear to be peaceful, sparking discussions on recognition and policy change at various levels of government, which i think is the entire point

and yes the US does seem pretty messed up

[Hondaracer]

I know people getting triggered by the joe Rogan podcast lately, but his latest interview with Jocko brings up tones of good Points as to why defunding the police is a bad idea and likely will end in either new police forces being formed anyways. Or areas where the defunding happens being overrun with crime.

Just because a crime isn’t a violent one doesn’t mean it does not require police. Have fun with petty and property crime without police around. Vancouver itself looking like a fucking cesspool downtown these days and frankly therapists and social assistance ain’t gonna be solving that anytime soon.

[stewie]

I know people getting triggered by the joe Rogan podcast lately, but his latest interview with Jocko brings up tones of good Points as to why defunding the police is a bad idea and likely will end in either new police forces being formed anyways. Or areas where the defunding happens being overrun with crime.

Just because a crime isn’t a violent one doesn’t mean it does not require police. Have fun with petty and property crime without police around. Vancouver itself looking like a fucking cesspool downtown these days and frankly therapists and social assistance ain’t gonna be solving that anytime soon.

1 - Scream and demand to defund the police across the world through protests.
2 - Crime rates may go up in certain areas with criminals well knowing the police are underfunded.
3 - The same people who screamed and cried to defund the police are now screaming and crying that the police because people are being killed, it takes 30 minutes for a response time, and the police not caring because of their ethnicity.
4 - Start a new protest and demand a better police force.

People will complain regardless of the outcome.

[mikemhg]

^That's exactly what we want, the forming of new forces, a complete restruturing.

"Defund" is somewhat of a misnomer here, it really means restructure.

I implore you to take a look at what Camden did with their force.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/new-jersey-city-disbanded-its-police-force-here-s-what-n1231677

I truly believe that for many of these forces, passing reforms simply won't work, the rot is so inherently deep on all levels that an entire clean out and rehiring is required.

Since we're on a car enthusiast site, think of it as a BMW V10, with leaks out of every orifice. Sure, you can rebuild the damn thing, knowing damn well it will break down yet again after the rebuild. Or you can just junk the whole thing and start new. These "reforms" are simply rebuilds on a already broken engine (many of these forces).

Sometimes an entire clear out and restructuring is required.

I love how racist "right-wingers" love to bring up Chicago, welfare has made this argument a thousand times on this forum, and I've heard it parroted from every right-wing wack job on the internet.

How is the murder rate in Chicago a viable argument about systemic racism? If anything the murder rate in Chicago is a direct result of racist policies. Do these people who mention Chicago even know its history?

https://digitalcommons.iwu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1112&context=econ_honproj

""White flight" historically described the movement of white residents out of the city into the suburbs, in response to black residents moving into their neighborhoods. In Chicago, some neighborhoods, like North Lawndale on the city's West Side and Englewood on the city's South Side, flipped from mostly white to mostly black within a decade."

"Whether exacerbated by gangs or guns, though, Chicago’s killings are happening on familiar turf: Its poor, extremely segregated neighborhoods on the South and West Sides. And many say that is Chicago’s real violence issue."

Chicago has a real issue with gangs. If you know the history of gangs, they are formed generally when a community carries dangers, as a method of protecting oneself.

These communities through racist policies have created variable economic wastelands in Chicago, creating these dangerous communities where gangs have been able to flourish.

Statistically crimes are committed to those within your community, to those closest to you, hence why black kids are shooting black kids. This cycle of violence is a one that is completely disconnected to any BLM movement or topic of this discussion, I do not understand how some folks try to correlate the two.

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/rhovo1215_sum.pdf

During 2012-15, the rate of white-on-white violent crime (12.0 per 1,000 white persons) was about four times higher than black-on-white violent crime (3.1 per 1,000). The rate of black-on-black violent crime (16.5 per 1,000 black persons) was more than five times higher than white-on-black violent crime (2.8 per 1,000). The rate of Hispanic-on-Hispanic violent crime (8.3 per 1,000 Hispanic persons) was about double the rate of white-on-Hispanic (4.1 per 1,000) and black-on-Hispanic (4.2 per 1,000) violent crime. As with violent crime, the rates of serious violent crime and simple assault were higher for intraracial victimizations than interracial victimizations.

TLDR: We hurt those closest to us, Chicago is a by-product of an economic desert within certain suburban areas, with a cycle of violence that continues to propagate. If anything Chicago should be used as an example of how bad things have gotten, and how the government has ignored these communities for far too long.

I guarantee you if investment was made, job creation, better schools (Chicago has some of the worst public schools in the country), you would see these communities turn around. There is no doubt culpability within the community as well, there is no shortage of internal community efforts to stop the violence, but as with the police forces, an entire restructuring economically in these communities is required to fix this violence problem.

[whitev70r]

"Defund" is somewhat of a misnomer here, it really means restructure.

I implore you to take a look at what Camden did with their force.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/new-jersey-city-disbanded-its-police-force-here-s-what-n1231677


Very cool story of change. I've been to Camden and recognize some of the neighbourhoods in the video clip. When I went, it was the #1 murder capital of the US. Progress.

[mikemhg]

I'm curious, when Al Capone and the Italian mafia were killing each other in Chicago back in the early to mid 1900s, did we cry about having an issue with white on white crime? Or white culture?

Many of those same gangsters were able to end up securing lucrative jobs and no-show jobs for the city of Chicago, many of those same men's families now run the city of Chicago on a political/judicial level.

It's fascinating how crime from one race can be accepted, if not even lionized (see how many beloved mafia movies and stories we watch to this day), and yet for another group, it's that they're lesser people, "trash" people as Trump would like to call them. Suddenly its now an inherent race-wide cultural issue, because blacks "just don't respect each other". :lol

[welfare]

:lol
Black thug culture isn't glamorized?
And you obviously have no idea how Italian immigrants were treated during the late 19th and early 20th centuries.
The biggest lynching in US history was against Italian Americans.
They were pretty much treated as sub human.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_14,_1891_New_Orleans_lynchings

[mikemhg]

LOL, no my friend the biggest lynching/massacre was actually against blacks in Tulsa, OK.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_massacre

You don't even know your history, you fool.

I'm half Irish myself, the Irish/Italians were considered "niggers" in the 1800s early 1900s, as were the Italians.

I know very well the abuse Italians and the Irish underwent by their English white brethren. Heck, we still use the term Paddy Wagon to this day as a result of the Irish.

Guess what, those atrocities have been addressed, and we're certainly not talking about the 1800s here. Being Italian or Irish nowadays simply means you're white, heck most police and fire departments on the East Coast are predominately Irish/Italian.

I stand by my comments, I have never heard once during the inner-gang murders of the mafia in Chicago, that these killings have ever been insinuated that this is a "white culture" or "white issue" as you allege the current black gang crimes in Chicago.

Why is it when a man is killed by white officer in California, Georgia, Minnesota, Mississippi, you name it, black on black violence in Chicago is brought up as a counter-argument? Explain to me this correlation.

As I said before, that sounds just as stupid as one to insinuate a culture of white violence writ large, using the murders within the Italian mafia in Chicago.

[Bouncing Bettys]

^you're kidding right? is there any reason you can possibly think of for why a noose would be in the one black guys car at a nascar race? you can't say someone was exercising in the car, or a leftover movie prop, or part of an exhibition... smh seriously.

https://twitter.com/NASCAR/status/1275542920972689409

[Infiniti]

"White flight" historically described the movement of white residents out of the city into the suburbs, in response to black residents moving into their neighborhoods. In Chicago, some neighborhoods, like North Lawndale on the city's West Side and Englewood on the city's South Side, flipped from mostly white to mostly black within a decade."

"Whether exacerbated by gangs or guns, though, Chicago’s killings are happening on familiar turf: Its poor, extremely segregated neighborhoods on the South and West Sides. And many say that is Chicago’s real violence issue."

Chicago has a real issue with gangs. If you know the history of gangs, they are formed generally when a community carries dangers, as a method of protecting oneself.

These communities through racist policies have created variable economic wastelands in Chicago, creating these dangerous communities where gangs have been able to flourish.

Statistically crimes are committed to those within your community, to those closest to you, hence why black kids are shooting black kids. This cycle of violence is a one that is completely disconnected to any BLM movement or topic of this discussion, I do not understand how some folks try to correlate the two.

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/rhovo1215_sum.pdf

During 2012-15, the rate of white-on-white violent crime (12.0 per 1,000 white persons) was about four times higher than black-on-white violent crime (3.1 per 1,000). The rate of black-on-black violent crime (16.5 per 1,000 black persons) was more than five times higher than white-on-black violent crime (2.8 per 1,000). The rate of Hispanic-on-Hispanic violent crime (8.3 per 1,000 Hispanic persons) was about double the rate of white-on-Hispanic (4.1 per 1,000) and black-on-Hispanic (4.2 per 1,000) violent crime. As with violent crime, the rates of serious violent crime and simple assault were higher for intraracial victimizations than interracial victimizations.

TLDR: We hurt those closest to us, Chicago is a by-product of an economic desert within certain suburban areas, with a cycle of violence that continues to propagate. If anything Chicago should be used as an example of how bad things have gotten, and how the government has ignored these communities for far too long.

I guarantee you if investment was made, job creation, better schools (Chicago has some of the worst public schools in the country), you would see these communities turn around. There is no doubt culpability within the community as well, there is no shortage of internal community efforts to stop the violence, but as with the police forces, an entire restructuring economically in these communities is required to fix this violence problem.

I know it's not an apples to apples comparison, but just look at those regions/neighbourhoods in Italy where the state has retrenched. It has left a vacuum for organized crime to setup shop in an unfettered manner, and in many respects "pick up the slack" the state has left behind by doing things to curry favour with locals (food delivery during COVID, providing jobs...). I am gonna venture a guess that the state is barely engaged in many of those poor, predominantly black communities in the Chicago area. Its to be expected that crime rates rise and many adolescents and young adults turn to crime and/or gangs. And, I don't buy the argument of just putting your head down and going to school and getting good grades to eventually make it out of "the hood". The odds are stacked against many of those young people: single-parent household, parent potentially unemployed or on social assistance, parent not educated, drugs and alcohol rampant...the list goes on.

[StylinRed]

So the noose was a garage door handle that's been there for a year

The noose found in Nascar driver Bubba Wallace's garage on Sunday was actually a handle on a garage door and had been there since last year, an FBI investigation concluded.

It added that "no federal crime was committed".

Nascar said it was "thankful to learn that this was not an intentional, racist act against Bubba".

However, Wallace said the image he saw of "what was hanging in my garage is not a garage pull."

"It was a noose," he told CNN. "Whether tied in 2019 or whatever, it was a noose. So, it wasn't directed at me but somebody tied a noose. That's what I'm saying."

In a joint statement, US attorney Jay E Town and FBI special agent in charge Johnnie Sharp Jr said: "The FBI learned that garage number 4, where the noose was found, was assigned to Bubba Wallace last week.

"The investigation also revealed evidence, including authentic video confirmed by Nascar, that the noose found in garage number 4 was in that garage as early as October 2019.

"Although the noose is now known to have been in garage number 4 in 2019, nobody could have known Mr Wallace would be assigned to garage number 4 last week."

Wood Brothers Racing were the last team to occupy the garage and they released a statement saying an employee had remembered seeing a "tied handle" on the garage door last October.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/motorsport/53159686

[punkwax]

So a noose is purely a symbol of racism? Plenty of whites have been hanged by the noose..

[Manic!]

So a noose is purely a symbol of racism? Plenty of whites have been hanged by the noose..

How many have been dragged out of there homes and been hung from a tree.

https://thumbs-prod.si-cdn.com/uANlqQ6r3KUgrw0B92pFfUHb-7k=/fit-in/1600x0/https://public-media.si-cdn.com/filer/36/65/36651843-9423-40a0-82b5-3afdcd3497ee/42-19919625.jpg

https://cdnph.upi.com/pv/upi/91db2af0c63ff114c0ba38485f00ee7a/KU-KLUX-KLAN-ABCD-FILES.jpg

[SkinnyPupp]

So a noose is purely a symbol of racism? Plenty of whites have been hanged by the noose..
Bro

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynching_in_the_United_States

(nsfl pics in there)

[SkinnyPupp]

BTW

https://twitter.com/VictorBlackwell/status/1275876971197669376

Now they need to go after the prosecutors who tried to bury this murder

Don't let up!

Also Breonna's murderers (apparently the judge rubber stamped that no-knock warrant as well, so go after her too)

[mikemhg]

^Excellent stuff, they aren't holding back with the charges.

I agree why are the district attorneys still in a job right now? Both should be fired immediately.

[mikemhg]

I know it's not an apples to apples comparison, but just look at those regions/neighbourhoods in Italy where the state has retrenched. It has left a vacuum for organized crime to setup shop in an unfettered manner, and in many respects "pick up the slack" the state has left behind by doing things to curry favour with locals (food delivery during COVID, providing jobs...). I am gonna venture a guess that the state is barely engaged in many of those poor, predominantly black communities in the Chicago area. Its to be expected that crime rates rise and many adolescents and young adults turn to crime and/or gangs. And, I don't buy the argument of just putting your head down and going to school and getting good grades to eventually make it out of "the hood". The odds are stacked against many of those young people: single-parent household, parent potentially unemployed or on social assistance, parent not educated, drugs and alcohol rampant...the list goes on.

I totally agree with you Infiniti, it will take a lot more than simple investment in these communities to fix the issue here. It's a very complicated problem, Jon Stewart put forward some excellent ideas in an interview he recently did with the Breakfast Club on how to address these problem, it's worth checking out.

As for the noose thing, I saw the news on that too, to be honest I'm extremely skeptical. You're telling me the FBI concluded this quickly that all is good here? Since when has the FBI ever been trustworthy? The FBI has never been trusted by the black community, and for good reason, check its history.

Seems to me they wanted to close this one up nice and quick, given the climate. Bubba is none too happy about it:

https://www.ctvnews.ca/sports/bubba-wallace-responds-to-fbi-findings-whether-tied-in-2019-or-whatever-it-was-a-noose-1.4997413

This is the gas-lighting that gets us so damn frustrated. The FBI comes out with that crap in record timing in order to close the story and essentially say "stop being so paranoid".

Meanwhile the same day they announce "nothing to see here", a Confederate flag was flown over the race (by the way, they allege they don't know who did it :lol). Since when can we not confirm who flew a plane over an event?

A parade of flags was held outside the race itself.

A son of a prominent Nascar driver goes to Twitter to say they "should've dragged Bubba around the garage by the noose".

It's like pissing on someone's foot, and telling them it's raining. I stand by my comments about Nascar, and its fans.

[Bouncing Bettys]

So a noose is purely a symbol of racism? Plenty of whites have been hanged by the noose..
Many years ago, in my heavy duty mechanics course, there was a section on knots. We had to be able to identify, tie, and explain the best uses for each in the industry. All sorts of knots like the reef, clove hitch, bowline, and of course the noose. Maybe we were being groomed for the KKK?

[GS8]

INBR Nanoose Bay forced to change name :drunk:

[mikemhg]

Many years ago, in my heavy duty mechanics course, there was a section on knots. We had to be able to identify, tie, and explain the best uses for each in the industry. All sorts of knots like the reef, clove hitch, bowline, and of course the noose. Maybe we were being groomed for the KKK?

You're being facetious, if you really believe that, you're more of an idiot than I had figured.

You sound like those guys that claim the Swastika was originally a Buddhist symbol, so what's the big deal about getting it tatted on my arm. You know damn well what it represents.

[StylinRed]

How many have been dragged out of there homes and been hung from a tree.


Probably quite a lot, especially in Europe after WW2 (Czechoslovakia etc) or in Mexico

Just saying, not sure if we're keeping this only about the US tho

[Manic!]

Probably quite a lot, especially in Europe after WW2 (Czechoslovakia etc) or in Mexico

Just saying, not sure if we're keeping this only about the US tho

Are you talking about Nazi's in Europe? They were probably hunk for killing people and not for whistling at a white girl.

Yes, Mexicans have a history with the noose too.

https://www.mysanantonio.com/opinion/commentary/article/The-noose-plagued-Mexican-Americans-too-12381761.php

[Bouncing Bettys]

You're being facetious, if you really believe that, you're more of an idiot than I had figured.

You sound like those guys that claim the Swastika was originally a Buddhist symbol, so what's the big deal about getting it tatted on my arm. You know damn well what it represents.
Indeed i'm being facetious about the KKK grooming part.
Your pointing out my facetiousness reminds me of those in the media/blue checkmarks who feel it necessary to point out and explain any humorous tweet from Trump
as if they are worried people might be duped. Anyways, the noose has legitimate uses, as I described. I could care less how you or anyone else interprets it so long as it gets the job done.

Could you not have responded without the thinly veiled insult?

[StylinRed]

Are you talking about Nazi's in Europe? They were probably hunk for killing people and not for whistling at a white girl.

Yes, Mexicans have a history with the noose too.

https://www.mysanantonio.com/opinion/commentary/article/The-noose-plagued-Mexican-Americans-too-12381761.php

No, post WW2, countries like czechlesovakia/baltics
I don't mean capital punishment by hanging which has been/is happening but like thru mobs/gangs/vigilantes

[SkinnyPupp]

For those who legitimately don't understand the symbolism of the noose in America as it regards to racism, the wiki I posted should lay it out for you. There's nothing really to argue about or be confused about.

[Manic!]

INBR Nanoose Bay forced to change name :drunk:

Are you trying to be funny or just uneducated?

[Hehe]

It’s what I said before. It’s all about context.

Be very careful about what you wish for. If we are going to ban anything that might upset a group of people, we’d end up with a world where very lil can exist. Who is it to say that what we take for granted today, like eating a steak or choosing veggie instead are not upsetting some group. It’s the context that define it. Not what anything might represent to someone.

Remember, if you want to pick on every bit of thing you could find regardless of context or coincidence, you have to be ready that the next group of people, whether you agree with them or not, to pick on everything they feel wrong about, regardless of the context.

[Manic!]

No, post WW2, countries like czechlesovakia/baltics
I don't mean capital punishment by hanging which has been/is happening but like thru mobs/gangs/vigilantes

What's with white people hanging people?

[underscore]

As for the noose thing, I saw the news on that too, to be honest I'm extremely skeptical. You're telling me the FBI concluded this quickly that all is good here? Since when has the FBI ever been trustworthy? The FBI has never been trusted by the black community, and for good reason, check its history.

Seems to me they wanted to close this one up nice and quick, given the climate. Bubba is none too happy about it:

https://www.ctvnews.ca/sports/bubba-wallace-responds-to-fbi-findings-whether-tied-in-2019-or-whatever-it-was-a-noose-1.4997413

This is the gas-lighting that gets us so damn frustrated. The FBI comes out with that crap in record timing in order to close the story and essentially say "stop being so paranoid".

From what I can tell because it was visible from outside with the door open it was pretty easy for them to find footage that showed it from a race last year. You can see it pretty easily in the clip I saw.

To me that just changes the question to who was in charge of assigning the garages, and did they assign it knowing the noose was there?

[welfare]

There are multiple garages there with the same damn pull chords.
Even after knowing that, he still refused to take any accountability for this charade of virtue signaling. What a surprise.
God the stench of desperation is so thick you could cut it with a knife.
And of course the media won't take him to task for this farce. I'm sure that would be construed as "racist" if they did.

[punkwax]

What's with white people hanging people?

What’s with brown people stoning people?

People all over the globe have done shitty things historically regardless of race. Your continuous agenda to post anything and everything to make white people look bad is the most blatant act of racism I’ve seen on RS over the years. That’s saying a lot considering what I’ve read about First Nations and other ethnicities/races over the years.

Your attitude is truly insufferable and maybe you should look in the mirror if you do believe the world needs to change. Apologies for the cliché but if you aren’t part of the solution, you’re part of the problem.

[SkinnyPupp]

There are multiple garages there with the same damn pull chords.
Even after knowing that, he still refused to take any accountability for this charade of virtue signaling.
God the stench of desperation is so thick you could cut it with a knife.
And of course the media won't take him to task. I'm sure that would be construed as "racist" if they did.
Which "moron" are you talking about? Because the driver himself thanked the FBI for swiftly getting to the bottom of the issue, saying he's happy to be embarrassed rather than what this potentially may have been.

[welfare]

https://youtu.be/rRVvHVDzLb0

[SkinnyPupp]

https://youtu.be/rRVvHVDzLb0
Did you even watch the video, or did you just read the misleading title along with the carefully selected thumbnail to make him look like a "moron", intentionally misleading you into repeating it here?

Listen to the interview, he isn't "adamant" about "despite" anything, other than people arguing against it being a noose (something the reporter asked but was edited out in this clip, to intentionally mislead you). He literally said "it was put there in 2019" and it was "not directed towards me but it was a noose". He's arguing against idiots who for some reason can't accept that it was a noose.

Fuck the people who put this shit on youtube to fool the gullible. Next time, watch the video before arguing or calling people "morons"

I am 99% sure that youtube channel is set up by russian trolls or a bot. I don't want to make you feel bad for falling for a russian bot (it has happened to someone else in this very thread but I deleted the posts), but just be aware of sources when getting info. Try to go straight to the source whenever possible. Those can even be misleading sometimes, due to politics, but at least they aren't literally trying to get you to argue with people in favour of... whatever...

[welfare]

Yup it's still a straight up noose.
Wow.

It took the use of 15 FBI agents to discover what anybody with even the slightest amount of common sense and examination could have immediately realized.
Amazing.

[mikemhg]

Indeed i'm being facetious about the KKK grooming part.
Your pointing out my facetiousness reminds me of those in the media/blue checkmarks who feel it necessary to point out and explain any humorous tweet from Trump
as if they are worried people might be duped. Anyways, the noose has legitimate uses, as I described. I could care less how you or anyone else interprets it so long as it gets the job done.

Could you not have responded without the thinly veiled insult?

You are right, the insult was not needed.

Once again it's hard to tell on a forum whether or not a person is being serious or not, hence my dislike of this method of discussion. Had we been speaking in person, your sarcasm would've been evident.

[SkinnyPupp]

Looks like my report of that Russian troll video was successful, it's gone now LUL

[Manic!]

https://i.cbc.ca/1.5627141.1593110210!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_780/nascar-releases-photo-06-25-21.jpg

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/nascar-bubba-wallace-noose-1.5626941

Declaring "the noose was real," NASCAR officials on Thursday released a photo of the rope found in the speedway garage stall of Black driver Bubba Wallace that prompted a federal investigation into whether he had been the target of a hate crime.

[westopher]

It should be pretty easy to figure out if there was any intention behind it. If he’s the only person who’s garage it was in I’d say it’s pretty glaring there was a message behind it. That’s information thats easy to find and easy to share.

[welfare]

It should be pretty easy to figure out if there was any intention behind it.

There wasn't.
Photos from his stall back in 2019 showed the exact same pull cord. Before he ever set foot in there. And before anyone could have possibly known he'd occupy it in the future.

[ImportPsycho]

I wonder why NASCAR waited until now to release the photo....

[Manic!]

There wasn't.
Photos from his stall back in 2019 showed the exact same pull cord. Before he ever set foot in there. And before anyone could have possibly known he'd occupy it in the future.

Why would you use a noose as a pull cord? When you pull it, it would tighten around your hand.

Some people hang garlic to repel vampires. I guess someone thought a noose would do the same for blacks.

[Jmac]

I wonder why NASCAR waited until now to release the photo....
Well, there was an active investigation which I would guess they didn't want to interfere with.

Then the investigation concluded that no hate crime took place. If they released the photo at that point, especially given the current climate towards law enforcement, I'm sure many people wouldn't have been happy with the FBI and likely would've accused them of a coverup/white supremacy.

Then many people, including some in the media, started accusing Bubba Wallace and his team of making it up or faking it, some comparing him to Jussie Smollett, who infamously staged a hate crime to try to get a better contract.

At that point, I feel NASCAR probably felt it would be prudent to release the photo to protect Bubba Wallace and his team from those accusations.

[Jmac]

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/nation-world/national/article243779512.html
Three members of a North Carolina police department have been fired after a department audit of a video recording captured one of the officers saying a civil war was necessary to wipe Black people off the map and that he was ready.

The Wilmington Police Department took the action on Tuesday against Cpl. Jessie Moore, and officers Kevin Piner and Brian Gilmore. Each was accused of violating standards of conduct, criticism and use of inappropriate jokes and slurs. After conferring with the city council, Wilmington City Manager Sterling Cheatham cleared Police Chief Donny Williams to release the details.

“When I first learned of these conversations, I was shocked, saddened and disgusted,” Williams said at a news conference on Wednesday. “There is no place for this behavior in our agency or our city and it will not be tolerated.”

According to documents released by the police department, a sergeant was conducting a video audit as part of a monthly inspection and was reviewing footage from Piner’s car that had been classified as “accidental activation.” After the sergeant listened to the conversation and determined comments made by Piner and Moore were “extremely racist,” she contacted the department administrator for the camera system.

At the 46-minute mark of the video, Piner and Gilmore began talking from their respective cars, at which time Piner criticized the department, saying its only concern was “kneeling down with the black folks.” About 30 minutes later, Piner received a phone call from Moore, according to the investigation, a segment in which Moore referred to a Black female as a “negro.” He also referred to the woman by using a racial slur. He repeated the use of the slur in describing a Black magistrate, and Moore used a gay slur to describe the magistrate as well.

Later, according to the investigation, Piner told Moore that he feels a civil war is coming and that he is ready. Piner said he was going to buy a new assault rifle, and soon “we are just going to go out and start slaughtering them (expletive)” Blacks. “I can’t wait. God, I can’t wait.” Moore responded that he wouldn’t do that.

Piner then told Moore that he felt a civil war was needed to “wipe them off the (expletive) map. That’ll put them back about four or five generations.” Moore told Piner he was “crazy,” and the recording stopped a short time later.

According to police, the officers admitted it was their voices on the video and didn’t deny any of the content. While the officers denied that they were racists, they blamed their comments on the stress on law enforcement in light of the protests over the death of George Floyd. Floyd, a Black man, died last month after a Minneapolis police officer put his knee on Floyd’s neck for several minutes.

In addition to being fired, cases involving the Wilmington officers will be reviewed by the district attorney’s office to determine if they committed any crimes or showed bias toward criminal defendants. Williams said he will recommend the three officers not be rehired by notifying the N.C. Criminal Justice Training and Standards Commission about their behavior.

Later, according to the investigation, Piner told Moore that he feels a civil war is coming and that he is ready. Piner said he was going to buy a new assault rifle, and soon “we are just going to go out and start slaughtering them (expletive)” Blacks. “I can’t wait. God, I can’t wait.” Moore responded that he wouldn’t do that.

Piner then told Moore that he felt a civil war was needed to “wipe them off the (expletive) map. That’ll put them back about four or five generations.” Moore told Piner he was “crazy,” and the recording stopped a short time later.

According to police, the officers admitted it was their voices on the video and didn’t deny any of the content. While the officers denied that they were racists, they blamed their comments on the stress on law enforcement in light of the protests over the death of George Floyd.
:fulloffuck:

I'm curious as to why Gilmore got fired as nothing is detailed about anything he did (didn't report it?)

[westopher]

There wasn't.
Photos from his stall back in 2019 showed the exact same pull cord. Before he ever set foot in there. And before anyone could have possibly known he'd occupy it in the future.

Was there a noose in any single other garage? If not, it’s not like it’s impossible that some guy was like “put bubba in that garage” and that would show some pretty obvious intent, whether it’s meant to be a shitty joke or a threat I don’t know. If there are the same rope in any other garages I’d say yes it’s pretty obvious there was likely no intent behind it. It’s not like something simply existing before it was used for something it wasn’t meant to be used for at the time of fabrication means there’s no possible way it was used for something.

[hud 91gt]

JMac article above is fricken insane. Amazing there is actually people out there like that.


I was pretty shocked to hear the FBIs investigation results and didn’t think it made any sense. But the more I think about it... Getting “murdered” or “slaughtered” are terms used to described getting your butt kicked in any sport events. Could a noose be a practicle joke to describe the above. The whole situation it weird, especially since no one else has spoken out about it’s previous presence.

[punkwax]

Was there a noose in any single other garage? If not, it’s not like it’s impossible that some guy was like “put bubba in that garage” and that would show some pretty obvious intent, whether it’s meant to be a shitty joke or a threat I don’t know. If there are the same rope in any other garages I’d say yes it’s pretty obvious there was likely no intent behind it. It’s not like something simply existing before it was used for something it wasn’t meant to be used for at the time of fabrication means there’s no possible way it was used for something.

So the noose was a garage door handle that's been there for a year

“The investigation also revealed evidence, including authentic video confirmed by Nascar, that the noose found in garage number 4 was in that garage as early as October 2019.

"Although the noose is now known to have been in garage number 4 in 2019, nobody could have known Mr Wallace would be assigned to garage number 4 last week."

https://www.bbc.com/sport/motorsport/53159686

Seems you missed this.

[westopher]

I didn’t miss it. I’m asking a question. Was there any nooses in any other garages, and did the people assigning the garages know that the noose was in that one single garage, if not? There’s nothing that clarifies any of those things in the article.
Somebody assigns teams to garages, hence the word “assigned,” so it’s possible that person(s) has intent behind assigning wallace to that garage. I’m not saying that’s the case, but it’s pretty odd that the one black guy that’s speaking out against racism in nascar ends up in the one garage (if that’s the case) that has a symbol of the murder of blacks throughout US’ history.

[punkwax]

Pretty sure it was the only one or it would’ve been reported there were others I would imagine.

I don’t quite understand the “nobody could have known Mr Wallace would be assigned to garage number 4 last week." comment. How are they assigned?

[westopher]

I think all that aligns with is that someone couldn’t have put the noose there with the intention that bubba was going to be in there. Still though, that doesn’t clarify for me that someone didn’t assign him to that garage knowing the noose was there. Again I’m not trying to act like I know something that none of us do. Just putting a possibility out there that seems to be ignored in the reporting/conclusion of the investigation.

[welfare]

All of the stalls were remodeled and finished in 2019. Many of the earlier stalls from 2017 used pull cords fashioned in the exact same way prior to being refinished.
Some of the refinished stalls used pull cords fashioned similarly, but not exactly, the same as his stall. From what I've gathered.

I think it's going pretty far down a rabbit hole to suspect that someone would assign him that stall just because it had a pull cord in the shape of a noose. Which isn't an uncommon knot, especially for something like a handle.
Unless there's evidence to prove that theory, I'll assume what seems most likely. That it's just a handle and people are letting hysteria cloud there judgment.
That's just my opinion though.

[underscore]

I think it's going pretty far down a rabbit hole to suspect that someone would assign him that stall just because it had a pull cord in the shape of a noose.

Normally I would tend to agree, but with everything I've seen lately it's hardly outside the realm of possibilities. Just look at the amount of time, money and effort someone put into flying that stupid defund NASCAR flag behind a plane at Talledega.

[welfare]

Him and his crew had probably seen it, walked past it, and put their hands on it hundreds of times without so much as a second thought.
The rope didn't all of a sudden transform into a noose. Nothing about it changed.
The only thing that changed is what's inside people's mind.

[Manic!]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/dafonte-miller-theriault-decision-1.5627792

Toronto police officer found guilty of assault, brother not guilty, in Dafonte Miller beating case

https://i.cbc.ca/1.4209573.1572977634!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_780/dafonte-miller-durham-police-beating-split-image.jpg


A Toronto police officer has been found guilty of assault in the beating of a young Black man more than three years ago, while his brother has been acquitted of all charges.

Michael Theriault was convicted of assault on Friday, but found not guilty of aggravated assault or obstruction of justice in relation to the Dec. 28, 2016 incident involving Dafonte Miller, which left him blinded in one eye.

The officer's brother, Christian Theriault, was acquitted of aggravated assault and obstruction of justice.

Ontario Superior Court Justice Joseph Di Luca said the case, and others like it, "raise significant issues involving race and policing that should be further examined."

But he said his task was not to conduct a public inquiry on race and policing, or to deliver the verdict sought by the public — it was to determine the case based on the evidence.

While a decision like this would usually come in court, the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic led to the hearing being broadcast live on YouTube, with over 19,000 viewers tuning in.

Miller, family speak out

After the verdict, Miller, now 22, and his mother held a news conference to show appreciation for the community that supported them.

"It's meant a lot to me in these last few years," he said. "It's helped me go forward."

Miller recalls the night of the incident and said, "We've come a long way."

"Now, we're in a situation where an officer has been held accountable to some extent," adding that he wants to continue to raise awareness for those who are in his position but may not have the resources and support he has had.

"There's a lot of people who are in my position who don't get the same backing that I got and don't get to have their day to really have any vindication for what they're going through."

Police chief to speak

Michael Theriault is currently suspended with pay, Toronto police spokesperson Meaghan Gray said in an email before the verdict was handed down.

"The internal disciplinary process is held until the conclusion of the criminal proceedings," she wrote.

Toronto police Chief Mark Saunders spoke to the media about the decision of the trial on Friday afternoon.

Mike McCormack, the president of the Toronto Police Association, would not comment on the decision saying "the matter is still before the court pending sentence."
Vastly different versions

Michael Theriault, who was off duty that night in 2016, and his younger brother, Christian, both had pleaded not guilty, telling the court Miller attacked them that night and they were defending themselves, putting forth a case of self-defence.

The Crown contended there was no justification for the beating Miller suffered that night.

Miller, who was 19 at the time of the incident, said he was walking down a residential street in the early morning hours in Whitby, Ont. — more than 50 kilometres east of Toronto — with two friends. He testified that the brothers, who were at their father's house, came outside and questioned them. He told the court he ran and the Theriaults chased him, catching up to him between two houses.
He said they beat him — punching, kicking and hitting him with an object. He made his way to the front of a home and banged on the door for help, but the beating continued.

Homeowner James Silverthorn, a district chief with Toronto Fire Services, was a Crown witness. He said he woke up even before the banging on the door to the sounds of screaming.

He looked through his side window and saw two men beating another man.

"It was continuous. It was very hard," he told the court.

He said later, when the men had moved to the front of his house, he saw one man holding an object, stabbing down with it, to keep the man on the ground from getting up.

A long metal pole with blood on it was found at the scene.

The Theriault brothers told the court they caught Miller and one of his friends breaking into their parents' vehicle and that they were trying to apprehend him.

They testified that once they caught up to him, Miller was the one with a pipe and that he was hitting them.

Michael Theriault admitted in court that he punched Miller repeatedly, as hard as he could, trying to disarm him. He said he and his brother feared for their lives.

In written closing submissions, the defence wrote: "This case is not about race."

The narratives put forward by Miller and his lawyer "bear no resemblance to what actually happened," their submission reads.

The defence lawyers also argued Miller lied in court when he denied breaking into cars that night.

Prosecutors said even if Miller was breaking into cars, the severe beating that caused him to lose his left eye was not justified.

The case has drawn attention to issues of anti-Black racism and police brutality, spurring protests in solidarity with Miller and his family.

The demonstrators, sporting T-shirts that read "Justice for Dafonte" gathered outside the Oshawa Ont., courthouse even though the hearing did not take place there.




The cop is suspended but is still being paid.

[SkinnyPupp]

https://twitter.com/AP/status/1277377004514562051

[StylinRed]

I think all that aligns with is that someone couldn’t have put the noose there with the intention that bubba was going to be in there. Still though, that doesn’t clarify for me that someone didn’t assign him to that garage knowing the noose was there. Again I’m not trying to act like I know something that none of us do. Just putting a possibility out there that seems to be ignored in the reporting/conclusion of the investigation.

did some googling

looks like theres video evidence from years back (track/garage walkthroughs) that showed the noose pullcord in all/almost all garages

here's a pic of screencap I think, its from a right-wing site though (I assume)

https://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com/2020/06/bubba-wallce-noose-hoax-2.jpg

[Nlkko]

NASCAR's swift action is commendable. Imagine if the incident was intentional and they didn't do enough. Whether or not somebody intentionally put it there is moot. They did the right thing as an organization, even when their fan base has a lot of MAGA.

It is as simple as treating others the way you want to be treated and speak out even if staying silent is self-beneficial. NASCAR spoke out, loud and clear for the people in the back too. This is how you stop radical, extreme ideal from manifest.

[welfare]

NASCAR's swift action is commendable. Imagine if the incident was intentional and they didn't do enough. Whether or not somebody intentionally put it there is moot. They did the right thing as an organization, even when their fan base has a lot of MAGA.


You're right. Intention is completely irrelevant. All that matters is that the worst possible conclusion is drawn prior to any sort of investigation.
Who cares if it's the truth or not FailFish

[welfare]

This guy got arrested for pulling a gun, then released the same day. just three hours later he ended up fatally shooting a seven year old girl in the head.
Rest assured, no fake nooses were involved. I guess BLM can sit tight on this one.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8463395/Man-26-shot-dead-seven-year-old-girl-just-THREE-HOURS-released-jail.html

[SkinnyPupp]

Welfare nobody going to take your bait, but do keep posting black crime if it makes you feel good SeemsGood

[welfare]

Welfare nobody going to take your bait, but do keep posting black crime if it makes you feel good SeemsGood

Behind every violent crime is a victim.
But do keep posting the removal of flags/statues/monuments/police. Probably doesn't mean much to the victims of this astronomically disproportionate level of violent crime. But sure feels good, don't it?

[SkinnyPupp]

Behind every violent crime is a victim.
But do keep posting the removal of flags/statues/monuments/police. Probably doesn't mean much to the victims of this astronomically disproportionate level of violent crime. But sure feels good, don't it?

https://media2.giphy.com/media/2wh569lThGXzRBSANr/giphy.gif

Welfare nobody going to take your bait

[welfare]

You can call it bait, sure.
The same way you can call Catholics praying in front of a statue, far right Nazis and skinheads.

https://youtu.be/yFvXJ8W93Cg

https://youtu.be/UeBJB1SACTs

[westopher]

The irony of you accusing people of calling all religious people “the far right” while implying BLM is all rioters and thugs isn’t lost here.

[welfare]

The irony of you accusing people of calling all religious people “the far right” while implying BLM is all rioters and thugs isn’t lost here.

Far right Nazis and skinheads.
If you're going to attempt to use my words against me at least do it verbatim, please.

[Manic!]

Deport her ass.

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/coquitlam-women-told-to-go-back-to-where-you-came-from-while-in-b-c-park-1.5005547

[Jmac]

Coquitlam Mayor Richard Stewart saw the video and said he felt outraged by it.

"People need to understand that that attitude of the comment, 'Go back to where you came from,' is never acceptable," he said. "It's never acceptable unless you're speaking to a racist from the United States and asking her to, perhaps, take her attitude back to where she came from.":facepalm:
Way to completely contradict yourself and exacerbate the situation, Mayor. Idiot.

Just leave it at it’s never acceptable, period, end of story.

[Manic!]

Coquitlam Karen takes the top spot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pl63xW1rmwg

[dbaz]

was at an interview the other day.

questions proceeded with "you whites.." and "as a white person do you.."

should i go all pc and create a scene like half the world or just move on like a sensible human?

[westopher]

Depends greatly on the context. Regardless I wouldn’t make it into an issue, but it could get aggravating depending on the end of the sentences.

[320icar]

was at an interview the other day.

questions proceeded with "you whites.." and "as a white person do you.."

should i go all pc and create a scene like half the world or just move on like a sensible human?

Sorry, but like, a job interview?

[Hehe]

^

Not surprising really. So many companies are doing the "about face" political correctness that they forget that even discriminating/making sensitive expressions against the majority (white caucasian) should be considered as discrimination as well.

The problem now is that with the whole BLM movement, it becomes that if you ain't black, or you are not supporting BLM, then you are not BEING correct.

Heck, my friend, a Brazilian black dude in the US got defriended on social media by his other BLM friends because he refused to support BLM... well, technically he just stayed neutral by saying "you are entitled to have your opinion, and I'm entitled to have mine, in which I decide to stay silent about it as I'm neither supporting nor against the movement".

BLM is trying so hard for people and entities to AGREE with their ideologies (as it gives them greater power/influence) that they are literally painting the picture that anyone against them or have a different idea (like ALM) are RACIST.

"If my dick erects only to black porn and not a JP/EU (white) porn, does that make me a racist? It's just personal preference for fuck sake. By forcing me to have to agree to jerk off to other chicks, that's a serious offense to my freedom. And if I don't do that, I'm a fucking pervert or a rapist?! That reasoning ain't making sense for me." - Quote this very Brazilian friend... translated from colloquial Brazilian Portuguese.

[!LittleDragon]

That reminds me of "nice" racism. Boston's a good example of that. Great city, love it there, been there at least 10 times in the past five years. The people there are nice but racist AF. Not racist in the way that they'll put you down or tell you to go home, etc... their method of racism is to make themselves look/sound better than you. It's very underhanded and patronizing. If you're a minority and you do well for yourself, they'll tell you good for you thinking you had to struggle to get there and proceed to tell you how they've done better.

[GS8]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NORWxPQz0eI

Love or hate Hannity, I don't care. This is quite an interview. The father (and the other gentlemen) talk more anyway and they are so well spoken, it's a shame it's under such tragic circumstances.

[dbaz]

Sorry, but like, a job interview?

yes.

Also Hehe, I would argue caucasians arent the majority in GVRD. But def companies scrambling now and not recognizing they are infact being racist to caucasians. But apparently you cant be racists to whites anyways so who knows

[Bouncing Bettys]

Asians are also becoming effected by such practices. In the wake of BLM, California recently voted to repeal prop 209 which had ended affirmative action practices for school admissions. Previous to 209 the standards were much higher for Asian Americans. A couple of years ago Harvard admitted they had tiered SAT admission scores based on race with Asians requiring the highest scores. Keep in mind the Asian demographic is very broad, with a number of sub groups where they have had to overcome many, if not more, of the same obstacles as Blacks and Latinos.

[twitchyzero]

unfortunately not unherad of to be at a disadvantage for having an asian surname when applying to professional programs

[Manic!]

Asians are also becoming effected by such practices. In the wake of BLM, California recently voted to repeal prop 209 which had ended affirmative action practices for school admissions. Previous to 209 the standards were much higher for Asian Americans. A couple of years ago Harvard admitted they had tiered SAT admission scores based on race with Asians requiring the highest scores. Keep in mind the Asian demographic is very broad, with a number of sub groups where they have had to overcome many, if not more, of the same obstacles as Blacks and Latinos.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/01/us/harvard-admissions-lawsuit.html

Harvard Does Not Discriminate Against Asian-Americans in Admissions, Judge Rules

A federal judge on Tuesday rejected claims that Harvard had intentionally discriminated against Asian-American applicants, in a closely watched case that presented one of the biggest legal challenges to affirmative action in years.

The lawsuit against the university came from a group hoping to overturn a longstanding Supreme Court precedent that allows race to be considered as one factor among many in admissions, but prohibits universities from using racial quotas.

[mikemhg]

I've somewhat walked away from this thread as it isn't really going anywhere, but I started reading a book that details an excellent history of Chicago, its politics and policing, along with detailing the reasons why the South-side of Chicago is in its current predicament.

https://www.amazon.ca/Occupied-Territory-Policing-Chicago-Summer/dp/1469659174

Chicago is often a topic of point by those on the right who look to diminish what the current movement is looking to address. Using the current issues of black on black violence within the city as a way to somehow delegitimatize the topic of black subjugation, and systemic racism within the government and police authority.

This book provides a great insight against those arguments, and to explain the problems which created the current predicament we are seeing in many of these cities throughout the US.

I recommend giving it a look, if curious.

[SkinnyPupp]

Finally, a cop actually gets fired instead of going on paid leave for a while

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1278733194918088706

WutFace

[Manic!]

Lmk when the Redskins change their name and the US changes the anthem.

Letting you know the Redskins are looking at changing their name.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/sports/washington-redskins-thoroughly-review-team-name-n1232877

Washington NFL team to do 'thorough review' of name, opening door to change
NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell said in a statement that he is "supportive of this important step."

[320icar]

Finally, a cop actually gets fired instead of going on paid leave for a while

https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1278733194918088706

WutFace

You couldn’t make this shit up

[SkinnyPupp]

Letting you know the Redskins are looking at changing their name.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/sports/washington-redskins-thoroughly-review-team-name-n1232877
Dan Snyder has two choices - change the name, or sell the team. Advertisers are already pulling out.

Thing is, the guy is such a douche, I wouldn't be surprised if he chooses the latter, just because he doesn't like to be told what to do (which is the only reason the team still has that name)

Edit: I misread, looks like he is going ahead with the change SeemsGood

[SkinnyPupp]

https://twitter.com/cmclymer/status/1279066321628659723

An Anti-Racist West Point (https://medium.com/an-anti-racist-west-point/an-anti-racist-west-point-a26fa2f77bbe)

I haven’t read an open letter that has inspired me and flooded me with such a compilation of emotions as this one. This is what love looks like in public, and these graduates are loving West Point loudly and publicly.

[StylinRed]

I think cabin fevers having everybody quick to pull out the racist card, but then ppl in the US haven't been quarantining so hmm..

been reading a persons online outrage over her professor, claiming her professors a racist, and everyone commenting is supporting her and telling the student to escalate the situation, so she naturally is

an Asian (relevant) student wants to sign up for a filled class, and writes the professor an email, the professor responds with a long email describing the requirements of the class, and for waitlisters, the professor also adds that given the students name (very Asian) she "might" be a international student, so she includes some language requirements for international students who wish to take the course

the student is enraged and tells the professor off for assuming shes an international student, and gives her a brief history of Asian americans.. the professor replies with a long winded apology, explaining she was just trying to make sure the student had all possible relevant information.

this student isn't satisfied, and being bolstered by social media, shes decided to out the professor as a racist on social media (previously censored the professors name), and has contacted the dean threatening to escalate the situation unless something is done :heckno:

[westopher]

I’d want to see the way it was worded to see if it might be construed that way, but totally can also see how people love the victim train.
Also, what do they want done? It sounds like an apology over a misunderstanding is pretty clearly “what should be done”

[StylinRed]

It's on tiktok so I dunno how to link it but it wasn't worded maliciously at all, but there was an air of "you're probably not going to get into my class" as the prof also added that she's not going to bend any of the requirements to make a seat for the student, so I think the student was already ticked off at that point, and latched onto anything to fuel her annoyance

[pastarocket]

-just saw a video of this deranged driver hitting two protesters at a BLM protest on Saturday night on the I5 in Seattle. That freeway was closed for the protest. One protester, Summer Taylor, is killed. The second protester is seriously injured.

:heckno:

Police have the the driver in custody. -driver of a white Jaguar.

(NSFW videos removed)