LOL Tamas, you truly are an ass. We all have to grow up sometime, looks like we will be waiting for awhile with you :) You honestly don't have a clue what you are talking about when it comes to my training. I happen to have my own opinions, not corporate rhetoric (hooray you know big words), and have driven far more cars than you have. You have a very narrow view of things, and keep picking on one thing I say and miss the entire point of my posts.

I think everyone has changed the MPG ratings in the last 2 years. GM is still playing catch up with matching honda in MPG department, but this year has gotten a fair mount closer. The Aveo/Waves now post 51mpg, which is comparable to the fit which posts 52mpg i believe. The G5/Cobalt XFE is around 50mpg as well, so definately improving, but has a ways to go. Toyota is still playing catchup in the fuel game on their 5.7L V8.

As to why I brought up the Honda link, it just seems fair. This conversation has grown into being about how superior Toyota & Honda are etc etc. Just seems right to mention that even though they are subsidized by their govt (big 3 aren't) and aren't burdened with union bs, they are still hurting. In my eyes, the cancellation of S2k & NSX would be like GM shutting down the Corvette, or Ford scrapping GT40 or even the Mustang. I think i'm just tired of the biased arguements (which i'm certainly a part of) and it should just be accepted fact that not all is equal, and the N/A economy is tanking. And the effects of which are reaching the asian/euro shores.

yeah, 'cuz that's really a grown-up comment to make. Fight name calling and immaturity with name calling and immaturity...great plan! Definitely makes you look like the bigger man, with not a hint of hypocrisy in sight :thumbsup:

I propose a truce...and brought a peace offering:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b7...dicaprio19.jpg

we cool now?

LOL whatever floats your boat bud.

I just wanted to point out:

Fuck yeah Ford for being in the best shape of the big 3!!!

Also, the Escape Hybrid is badass, wish it were in my pricerange. I might have to cope a used one at some point if they have as much grunt as my Patriot. Killer MPG!

I've seen some used ones diiiiiiiiiiiirt cheap. I've looked into it, but for that much money you can get a used RAV4 or CRV, which gets the same gas mileage with a better track record of reliability.

Who actually makes the Escape Hybrid? I know the first gen Ford Escape was a Mazda, but I'm guessing this new one isn't, since I don't think Mazda has invested anything in hybrid technology.

Although they do have some Hydrogen RX-8's.... but who cares. It's a rotary.
And yes, this thread has gone quite off topic, but hey, it's still something to read.

But back on topic, which is auto sales and North American car manufacturers (lets not call them Domestics, because they're domestic to US, we only see imports in Canada), CNN released a pretty grim report on the economy and how a bailout isn't going to help GM, Ford, and Chrysler because too many people are losing their jobs:
http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/07/news...ex.htm?cnn=yes

Nah, they both get about the same or worse mileage than my Patriot, they're not even close to the Escape.

really? 'cuz I read the Escape hybrid only gets 30-ish mpg...and I'm pretty sure (though not 100% certain) that the 4cyl RAV/CRV could easily match that.

This is ridiculous! Hyundai started a new car purchase incentive program in the United States. If you buy a new Hyundai (loan it), and lose your job within the first year of ownership, you can return the car and have no more obligation to purchase it. There's a few little rules which I'm sure are like "if car is smashed severely, you'll have to pay some sort of repair fee", but still, that's a ridiculous scheme... so ridiculous it might actually work.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/05/auto...ion=2009010515

I care, I care... :cry:

(PS check out new 16x motor :D, more power, less gas? :thumbsup:)

And one more good read. 2008 auto winners / losers.
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2009/...ers/index.html

lol, I actually thought about you when I posted that but thought, bah, he won't say anything. :D

I'm only looking at current models, but take a look for yourself. 4Runner doesn't even have a 4 cylinder option anymore:
http://www.fordvehicles.com/suvs/esc...eatures/specs/
http://automobiles.honda.com/cr-v/specifications.aspx
http://www.toyota.com/4runner/features.html?trim=8642

4wd vs 4wd

CRV: 20mpg city / 26 mpg highway
Escape: 29 mpg city / 27 mpg highway

I'll need to test drive some. I'm hoping the Escape has some ok torque down low with the electric motor. I don't want something weaker than my Jeep. It's got more horses than either of these and is pretty light.

There was a 2004 deal where Toyota and Ford exchanged technology. Hybrid technology went to Ford in exchange for diesel and direct injection technology. What's in the Prius is what's in a Ford hybrid except for maybe gasoline engine.

wow....20/26 for the freaking CRV??? That sounds disgusting...I'd like to see these numbers in L/100km (to avoid the aforementioned disparities).

What about the RAV4 (not 4Runner ;) )

I don't know about Fords hybrid technology much but if its like most hybrid vehicles the bottom end tq should be pretty good. Look at the Accord hybrid vs the Accord gas, 1.2secs faster in the 0-60 I believe.
My mom has a 2008 Crv awd model and loves it, gas mileage she said is pretty good, not as good as her Corrola (sp?) she had before but still very good and as a realtor she does her fair share of driving.
At the same time I know someone with a new Escape (gas model) and he loves it, admits its not as comfortable or as well put together as a Crv but regardless really likes his Escape. Again I don't think you can go wrong with either.

Hahaha whoops!
http://www.toyota.com/rav4/specs.html

RAV4: 21 mpg / 27 mpg highway
CRV: 20 mpg city / 26 mpg highway
Escape: 29 mpg city / 27 mpg highway

My Jeep Patriot: 22 mpg city / 27 mpg highway


^ Those are all in American MPG


You've seen my pen and paper results on the Jeep, I'm just imagining a bigger, more SUVish crossover like the Escape (although maybe no more offroad capable), but with even better mileage. Seems pretty sweet as a daily driver and for roadtrips and such. The Jeep has been fantastic with all the snow.



The .ca manufacturer sites have them all in L/100KM I think. I chose US MPG due to previous posts in this thread using it.




Edit: had wrong mileage for Jeep

I assume you are talking about the Escape Hybrid there Coal? Based on the fact its getting better mileage in the city then the highway

James: don't forget that the Accord hybrid is pretty unique in its class since it uses an electric motor IN CONJUNCTION WITH the biggest engine they already have.

I think it's a brilliant idea (it gets better gas mileage AND better performance numbers than a garden-variety V6 Accord), but most vehicles (such as the Civic, as well as the Ford) will toss in a small gas engine with the electric motor.

Coal: I'm shocked...I thought Honda/Toyota would be better...I think I'm gonna hold on to my Zuk for a while yet ;)

True enough, I think thats why Honda scrapped the Accord hybrid. It didn't sell all that great since most people buying a hybrid care more about getting the mileage more then performance and I think the Accord got the same mileage as a 4 cylinder so you needed to find the right buyer for them. Mind you, we have one here as a loaner and I drive it every chance I get and love it. I would buy one in a heart beat!

Good read. Here's something I found interesting

"It was pretty close though. Toyota sold 1,843,669 cars this year. Chevrolet came in second with 1,790,519 sales."

That's just the sales figure for Chevy, just one of the brands for GM so overall, GM must be selling a lot more than that. Seems to me they don't have a problem selling cars despite what people think about the quality, bad gas milage, etc... Now if GM can sell that many cars, where's all the money going? *cough*UAW*cough*

Who gives a fuck when you'd lose out more on the GM and even more on the Chrysler in resale.

This should be about the cost of ownership. Not MPG.

Take into account the cost of purchase, fuel, maintenance, and resale whenever you choose to move on, add all that shit up an you will be in for a rude awakening.

You can buy a running 2000 cavalier for the price of a civic SHELL.

Pathetic.

Another interesting little thing I never though about was the whole F series truck being the number one selling vehicle / truck for X years running. When you put the GMC and Chevy truck sales together (For equivalent models), they outsold the F series by a ton!

I didn't know that, pretty smart move.

No i didn't ask you how you calcuated it. Because i don't ever believe people with high mpg or L/100 claims ,because none of my cars ever got their claimed numbers, or any car i have ever driven for a long period of time get adversized numbers. Im no lead foot most of the time , nor do i ever use A/c either.