Apparently one of the conditions is that Wagner is canned from running GM. And on the radio this morning, they still said that the plan isn't 100%, and of course there's the problem of it being less then half of what the CEO's said they would need.

probably not :)

Shall we talk about the farming industry in Canada as well if we are talking bailouts :)

Well here it is. Should be enacted by the weeks end:
http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2008/1...tobailout.html

And an interesting snipit:
"It would create a government "car czar" to dole out the loans, with the power to force the automakers into bankruptcy if they didn't cut quick deals with labour unions, creditors and others to restructure their businesses and become viable.

Congressional Republicans, left out of negotiations on the package, are expressing grave reservations and may seek to block it.

"We'll be talking retail to individual senators to win their support," said White House deputy chief of staff Joel Kaplan, who added he expects President George W. Bush to lobby Republicans to vote for the package."

hmmm...something tells me the few extra bucks is worth it for the Civic when buying new...

http://kamloops.en.craigslist.ca/ctd/952576458.html

almost twice as many kms and still $10K more...

http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/ctd/952714337.html

now tell me the Cobalt owner did a smart thing by saving a few bucks a year ago...

feel free to start a thread about it :)

hahaha fucking auto makers (Chrysler and Ford this time)...they want the public's money, but are not releasing their plans to the public.

http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2008/1...tobailout.html

(last couple of paragraphs)

Compare apples to apples. Thats a base cobalt vs a better equipped honda, and you are comparing a private sale to a retail vancouver store. Lets go black book, which is real world wholesale value.


2007 Honda Civic DX 2 Door Auto
with 30k 11,400 - 12,900
New $18390


2007 Chev Cobalt 2 Door LS Auto Air
with 30k 7800 - 9800
New $14900

Theres a $3490 difference in costs here, and the black book reflects it. You pay more up front, and get a good portion of it back but its all relative. I still say, it all boils down to preference. I couldn't justify spending the extra cash up front for less warranty coverage, just to boast better resale value (which is artificially inflated anyways).

I heard something interesting the other day, I was talking to a guy at the gym (he has no idea who I work for so it wasn't a biased bash again Ford), he leases a 2006 Ranger truck, well his lease runs out this week, his buyout is $17000 (aprox he said), new Rangers are selling now for under $15000. He liked his truck and perfered to stay in that truck for whatever reason he perfered not to change to a new model. Anyways he phone the dealership and asked if they could work with him on the buyout price since the new model price was lower. They flatted out told him no. So his options were to either pay $17000ish dollars for a 3 year old truck that he could buy now for under $15000 or lease a new one.
Funny thing, he is turning it back in on Friday and has already went and bought a new Nissan truck, paid cash i think. Anyone in a sale position wanna clarify why they wouldn't work with him. He wanted to remain a ford customer and they pretty much gave him the boot. I was wondering if there is something in the lease that at the end of your lease they can't negotiate the buyout price?

With GM, we have a program that calculates fair market price (based off new truck rebates and incentives), which brings down the buyout if the customer wishes to buyout his truck, or buy a new one.

Fords leases are specifically tailored to get customers into new vehicles only. If you go over your kms, they'll forgive it if you buy a new one with them, if you buy a competitors, you are paying the penalty. Typically on the Rangers, you are mostly paying interest (over 7% i've heard) on their leases, and Ford has a way of writing off the difference if its traded back in.

Isn't this exactly what type of issues are plauging Ford now? I can understand they have lowered their prices on new trucks to tailor to the market but to let a customer walk away like that to me seems unreal, particularly at a time like this. I understand when you sign your lease you are agreeing to the buyout price but I would think they would look at some options for him alteast. From the version I heard from the guy I was talking to, the sales mens approach was "take it or leave it"

black book values more often than not have very little bearing on actual market prices...check Craigslist...it's an eye-opener.

That's crazy. You think it today's market they would be willing to negotiate. Especially since the truck is really only worth about $12,000 used on the lot.

On that note though, the new ford rangers are hella cheap. It's pretty tempting...

Apparently the bailout deal collapsed tonight:
http://www.revscene.net/forums/showt...19#post6168619

Bye bye GM as we know it.

Gm wants a major bailout, yet they are sueing the same goverment they are asking help from...


Its a sticky situation

wow.... and why are we not suppose to blame the unions again? fucking idiots ! I don't plan to turn to any new channels tomorrow its going to be ugly

Yep, it'll be pretty horrible. Here is a more detailed story:
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/US/12/11...out/index.html

Oh wow, doesn't he know how many gates this will open if he uses those funds?! Everyone will want money if they do this.

"As part of their effort to urge skeptical Republicans to back the deal, Bush officials made clear that if Congress didn't act, the White House would have to step in to save Detroit from collapse with funds from the Troubled Asset Relief Program, according to the sources familiar with the conversations."

And you honestly think your honda dealership checks craigslist to evaluate your car at trade in time?

it's not *MY* Honda dealership, neither is it *MY* car :)

if I were you, however, I would be worried about *YOUR* Pontiac dealership and *YOUR* G5... :)

haha...wow...just...freaking...wow.

unions.. its the reason why Victoria Shipyards lost a huge deal that lead to the collapse of my work and serveral layoffs.

(though some unions are good, some are just plain awefull)

Why should I be worried about either my dealership or my car? And once again you missed my point.

"Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., said the sticking point was the United Auto Workers' refusal to set a "date certain" to put employees at U.S. auto manufacturers at "parity pay" with U.S. employees at foreign automakers in the United States."

It's the UAW to blame for this latest failure and no one else. The unwillingness of the UAW to concede ANYTHING even when it comes to the fucking survival of the god damned companies they work with is idiotic.

GM Hires bankruptcy lawyers:
http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/11/news...ex.htm?cnn=yes

You make a point, but I think the re-sale value value that comes with a honda or toyota is greatly inflated. Both companies make solid cars that are generally reliable good quality cars. In the past domestic manufacturers did pinch out some fairly shitty vehicles. However if you look at a new Chevy vs a new Honda, the difference in quality is minor. Honda still makes a great car, but the gap between themselves and domestic manufacturers is minor.

All of that said, public perception has not really caught up to that though. Really if someone were smart they would buy the used Cobalt over the Civic and pocket the savings.

As a personal example: Many moons ago, my wife was selling her '98 Neon (in about '02) we asked $5000 and selling it was a massive bitch. About 2 weeks after we sold the Neon my mom proudly showed off her new (used) '98 Civic. The Civic had a little more kms but was a 4 door. She paid $11,500.

Now was the Civic a better car? At that time more so than today it was. But considering you could buy a spare Neon and $1500 in gas and/or parts was buying the Civic smart?