Had the wrong numbers for my Jeep. Haha, better than the Toyota and Honda on gas too.

I guess the Escape wouldn't be a huge leap in that department, not worth the $10 grand price difference until used ones drop well. I like the '08+ for whatever reason. :)

GM Shrinking to 4 brands (Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, GMC)
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/01/12/o...o-four-models/

that makes no sense...in the same few short lines it says GM has no plans to keep Pontiac on, but then says that they have all sorts of plans as to which Pontiac models to keep....well, which one is it? Are they keeping Pontiac or not?

It boggles the mind that they're keeping the all-but-redundant GMC around. GMC has been a useless brand from the get-go. (And yes, I technically own one haha...)

Makes no sense what they're doing since we don't have the data on what each brands cost, what the brand's "profits" are like, and how much of those sales would disappear if the brand disappeared.

Crazy. It's too bad Saturn didn't stay with their original mandate to be something different. I'll probably miss that brand most out of all their other products. As for Pontiac, I'm pretty sure the plans were to close a bunch of dealerships, and just have them in markets where they could still potentially sell a bunch of vehicles (California etc). Of course, many GMC dealerships are tied together with Pontiac, so maybe they're also planning on keeping dealerships open, and having GMC carry be brand.

I can also see them wanting to say Pontiac will be around, because they have a shiz ton of inventory in that brand. Saying that it will be extinct soon would be total suicide. It's bad enough saying Saturn is done. They're not a slouch either in terms of inventory and dealerships.

I'm on the fence with SAAB. Not sure if anyone would buy them or not. In a regular market yes, but right now, I can see it just disappearing. And Hummer was a stupid brand to begin with. Such a niche market.

On that note, in the Detroit Auto show this year, Hyundai won best car for the Genesis, and Ford best truck for the F-150. The only US car company I see with a remote chance of getting through this right now is Ford. No one is talking about Chrysler because they don't have to disclose their finances, but I would guess they're on the brink, and they don't have any brands to really shed.

While that's true, I'm sure anyone in the market for a GMC Sierra would settle for an equally-equipped Chevy Silverado, anyone wanting a Yukon/Denali would buy a Tahoe/Suburban, etc, etc...

PLUS...if all Chev/GMC trucks would be sold as Chevys, they'd actually knock Ford off their throne as the biggest-selling model (F-series)...the bragging rights alone seem worth it in these times...

I'll agree with that. I don't know of anyone who is brand loyal to GMC. I think every person who is interested in buying lets say a GMC understands that the equivalent is available in Chevy. I would say that out of GM's brands, they have the most potential success with Chevy and Pontiac, strictly because there is an american hot rod history with both of those companies. And out of those two, I would say Chevy has quite the advantage. Especially since they still have a modern day flagship car like the Corvette.

Actually, I would argue that if they had to pare it down to two models, Chevy and Caddy would be the strongest contenders.

Basically, rebadge everything Pontiac and GMC as a Chevy (the G8 would make an AWESOME Impala SS), the rest just fall into place.

Caddy is still a very respected name. The Escalades still sell well from what I see on the streets and their passenger cars do well when thrown up against their European competitors.

They don't address Vauxhaul/ Opel and Holden in that note. Are they not also under the umbrella? I'd like to say I'll miss Saturn, but the real Saturn died in 04/ 05 when all models became essentially badge engineered.

It would be nice to see Saab continue, while they aren't huge volume cars here, they do still sell well in Europe. Hell, in England they sell similar volume to Mercedes. I'd be surprised if no one picked them up.

I agree with Tamas on the Pontiac thing. Many of their models already have Chev equivalents.

Well, then allow me to respond by agreeing with you on the Saab note. They're a very popular car in Europe, and I think with a little price adjustment and a bit of $$$ into advertising, they could be made into a competitor for Audi, Lexus, etc on our shores.

And yeah, I'm not sure why the non-North American brands are not being discussed...from all I've seen Holden is a spectacularly successful company down under, so I'd be surprised if they messed with that...

So this thread has had me thinking the last little while and I've come to the realization that GM has an incredible foe: the resale price of their vehicles.

If I can get a fully loaded '07 Saturn Sky with 10K on the clock, most of the warranty remaining for $22K obo...why would I buy a new one for nearly twice as much?

I mean there are some GM cars that appeal to me...but the thought of buying them new never crosses my mind, 'cuz I know I just have to wait a year or two and get it half-price...I'm not sure how GM could tackle that problem, but if they could, I'm sure more people would be tempted to stroll through the doors of their showrooms, rather than trolling craigslist....just a random thought.

I'm not sure how many people think about resale value when they buy a new vehicle. For me, I just wouldn't buy a new vehicle period... well, I would have to have a lot of money, and it would have to be a car that I wanted to be exclusive for a year before people start buying it used... basically, not going to happen. But then on the flip side, you look at brands like Hyundai and especially Kia. I know Hyundai has made lots of ground in this area, and I think that's simply by producing a decent product for X amount of years. I remember going into the used Hyundai lot about.... 5 years or more ago, and noticed that there were a ton of sunfire's and cavaliers on the lot. I asked the sales guy why they had so many, and he straight up told me that they look specifically for those domestic cars, because if someone doesn't qualify through financing for a new hyundai, lenders would let them buy a used domestic, but not a used hyundai. It was really interesting to here, because I never thought of that aspect. I think now those roles have probably changed, as their used lot isn't filled with cobalt's or g5's.

And when Kia first starting selling here, I was in disbelief that people would actually buy them new, because they were losing more then 50% of their value in the first year... and they somehow managed to turn that around. I guess public perception really is the driving force in the used market.

I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the people who go "why the hell should I pay $40K for a brand new Saturn Sky (for example), when I can wait 1 year, let someone put 10,000 km on it, and buy it for $22K and still have a ton of warranty left on it and have a pretty-damn-near-new car"

It may be out of GM's control, but I think all the people snapping off near-new GM cars at far-from-new prices is really hurting their new car sales...

I agree Tamas, but that hurts all car makers but hurts GM the most as they still sell more cars than any other mfr... more supply = lower prices. I paid $10k for my Envoy and it was most likely damn near $50k brand new. 6 years old, $40k drop in price... anyone with two cents of intelligent wont buy new. I've never bought a brand new car and never plan on buying a new car and GM's own dealers dismissed me when I went to talk about bringing in a Trailblazer SS.

GM stopped flooding the rental market (watch the prices of used Camry's plummet in the next few years) so that might increase resale, but they also need to make cars that people will like in 3-5 years... the new Buick is very competitive compared to it's cookie cutter luxury sedan old man sedan class but that's one of many... I'm an admitted GM zealot (I own 3 of 'em) and outside of their trucks they have ONE new car that I'd consider buying, the Saab 9-3 and that's only if I had to commute and needed something nice and decent on gas.

Actually, I'd buy a new Caddy CTS if I wanted something that got better than 20mpg :)

Resale value, there's the difference. My sons both wanted used Toyota Tacoma 4X4's but ended up buying new because the used ones weren't much less money and were hard to find.

Good choice!

That's exactly what I'm talking about :) But, for example, if you're in the market for a Cobalt or even a Colorado...Craigslist is overflowing with 1 and 2 year old examples at a fraction of what a new one would cost you...

You got it exactly right there Tamas! My Cobalt with a sticker price of nearly 29,000,..not even 2 years later the Canadian black book puts it at 13000-15000. Makes it painful to even consider buying anything else. Not to mention the dealings with my GM lot have pushed me away from ever considering another GM product.
Can anyone reccomend someone at Campus Nissan? ;)

In sales James? I would say Mandu is a good guy

I have almost nothing useful to contribute other than my opinion..
I think that when you make a product of inferior quality, it doesn't just hurt the initial sale of the vehicle, it also kills the holding value of that vehicle for years. I also think there is a stigma attached to many domestic cars for being less reliable than it's import counter-part, and that alone can drive prices down for domestics when shopping for a used car... I also think that the majority of people think about resale value... Toyota even promoted it's resale value of the Camry and Corolla. If this all sounds like 5 different points put together, it's because i'm at work and talking between clients..

General Motors in particular have built their cars to look nice and flashy so they would sell well with no real concern for how their customers would suffer down the road due to poor reliability. Volkswagen show up in the 60's with the Beetle and GM countered with the Corvair?? the Civic, Corolla, and Rabbit come along in the '70's and GM counter with the Vega?? the 80's were a total wash with the Fiero (to compete with the RX7 and MR2??) Now they wonder why they've lost basically two generations of young car buyers and are suffering the consequences. [sarcasm]I'm sure gonna miss 'em. [/sarcasm]

its ture, the big three really screwed up for young drivings buying there first used car (espeacially if they want something reliable/sporty)

I mean the fiero looks good, but is plaggued with reliability problems. I heard even worse about DSM eclipses (talons/lasers)

Looks like Fiat and Chrysler are merging. Fiat is inititally getting a 35% share in Chrysler, and that will be increased later on:
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/BUSINESS...ake/index.html

I wonder how soon before we see Fiats on the road? The agreement specifically says that Fiat cars will be produced at Chrysler plants in North America.

I hope this deal works out better then the GM Fiat deal of a few years ago.

BTW because of that deal, several Fiat cars are GM platforms.