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I am not in SWAT but how else would you get into the bus? Flashbang? Gas grenade? You can't just rush into the bus. I would for someone to tell me WHEN the last time a sniper was credited to ending hostile hostage situation? It's extremely rare.
Judging by the know-it-alls in this thread, I'm guessing: Aimbot.
TBH, I'm not really as disappointed in the outcome of the hostage crisis as I am in Philippines as a whole and the system that precipitated this event. I'm surprised nobody's taking more issue in the bigger flaw in the country's long-standing corrupted bodies of authority than an incapable 3rd world SWAT which one sort of expected. I sure as hell weren't expecting Navy SEAL tactical type shit.
this is tragic news, and i have to agree the phillipines is a poorly run country. it's very very unfortunate to hear. even though there is every right to hate and be angry, i don't understand the rising racism (HK) people feel towards phillipinos (i.e. friend's fb status = i want to punch everyone with phillipine passports). when i went to manila, EVERYONE there was friendly and helpful.
this is tragic news, and i have to agree the phillipines is a poorly run country. it's very very unfortunate to hear. even though there is every right to hate and be angry, i don't understand the rising racism (HK) people feel towards phillipinos (i.e. friend's fb status = i want to punch everyone with phillipine passports). when i went to manila, EVERYONE there was friendly and helpful.
Can't really blame them, it is their attitude/thinking.
1. Cops being afraid to go into the bus
2. Corruption
3. Top it off, you have little girls smiling and taking pictures with the bus.
I will not hate philipinos after this incident, but I will definitely have second thoughts before stepping into a less developed country for my next vacation.
I will definitely have second thoughts before stepping into a less developed country for my next vacation.
Yes, because these types of attacks only happen in LDC's.
I'm sure there will be a "post-9/11"-like hatred and racial profiling against Filipinos, unfortunately, no matter how "open-minded" and "understanding" one claims to be.
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this is tragic news, and i have to agree the phillipines is a poorly run country. it's very very unfortunate to hear. even though there is every right to hate and be angry, i don't understand the rising racism (HK) people feel towards phillipinos (i.e. friend's fb status = i want to punch everyone with phillipine passports). when i went to manila, EVERYONE there was friendly and helpful.
Even the victims on the bus confirmed that the gunman was not hostile and did not threaten them in anyway at first. He even comforted them by saying no one will be harmed, and if anyone dies, it would be most likely himself.
Watching his brother and son getting arrested however triggered him to go berserk and shoot.
The brother did not have actual permission to negotiate with him, and was arrested for conspiracy.
They sure didn't think on the consequences of their actions thoroughly...
@ 10:52 you can clearly see machinegunning from inside out, a person on that seat isn't moving, the bullet holes appears to have been at that person's head area, at 11:18 you can hear some people at the back laughing
Besides being a last resort, a sniper knows that shooting through that type of automotive glass AT ANY ANGLE could result in refraction of the bullet. Unless the guy was very close to the window, there is not the 100% certainty the marksman will hit the target + bullet has not deflected + bullet still has enough velocity to kill him. If they missed, it would probably piss him off more.
Why not use a Barrett or higher power bullet? possibly a lack of equipment, but more likely the chance the bullet would pass through and hit whatever was behind the hijacker with unknown probability again.
Here's an article from the BBC on what the Philippine police did wrong. Not trying to play "armchair SDU commander" here, but I think the first item in that article is the key - after the breakdown in negotiations, of course. If the police do decide to launch an assault, they should commit to it and not do a half-ass boy-scout job, effectively only vandalising the bus for nearly an hour.
If an assault on a bus is ordered, this is one way to do it - 10 seconds and it's over:
In China, however, a recent hostage situation ended like this (which, to me, is simply irresponsible on the part of the police, despite the positive outcome):
EDIT: Regarding that bus breach video above - you have to keep in mind that the Philippine situation had a full bus load of people right next to the windows - simply blowing them out was not an option.
^ the hostage was already stabbed multiple times and was bleeding to death
Really? I take my opinion back then. To me it looked like she was definitely stabbed, but was not bleeding to death (she was still conscience and able to stand).
whats with the racism here?..theres over 2 million chinese filipinos in the phillipines...
There's a remote theory out there that the hostage-taker specifically choose Chinese tourists because he himself was discharged from the police by a Chinese-Filipino, Alfredo Lim, the ex-Mayor of Manila.
Not to promote any racism whatsoever, I can't help but become angry whenever I read more of this on the news. My criticisms are solely at the Filipino police as an organisation, specifically the commanders and directors who ordered their ill-equipped, improperly-trained men to proceed with the assault. For all we know, the men who actually carried out the assault may not even have been SWAT (they sure didn't look like it).
Focusing only on the tactical side, here's what security experts have to say:
The following comments of President Benigno Aquino, the Manila Police Commander and some non-governmental security experts on the way the Manila Police handled the hostage-taking crisis on August 23,2010, have been extracted from despatches of the Agence France Press (AFP) :
* President Aquino: The tragedy highlighted many flaws in the ability of Philippine security forces to handle hostage situations. "There are a lot of things (that) resulted in a tragedy. Obviously we should be improving." One of the problems was the way the crisis played out through the media, with the gunman being allowed to speak on radio and watch events live on the bus's television, giving him insights into police actions. Waiting more than 10 hours before storming the bus was the right course of action, because police believed until that point they could convince the gunman to stand down.
* Mr.Leocadio Santiago, Manila Police Commander: "We saw some obvious shortcomings in terms of capability and tactics used, or the procedure employed and we are now going to investigate this।"
* Mr.John Harrison, Assistant Professor and homeland security analyst at the Nanyang Technological University in Singapore:"The fact that there was essentially live video was mistake number one." There should have been a media blackout to deny the hijacker feedback on what was going on around him. Instead, he was able to follow events -- including frenzied speculation by serving and former police chiefs appearing on Philippine networks -- via the bus' internal TV.
* Mr.Dennis Wong Sing Wing, an Associate Professor of applied social studies at the City University in Hong Kong:The police operation was "really shocking" to watch as it unfolded live on TV। "I am very angry about their unprofessional performance.They are indirectly responsible for the deaths of the Hong Kong people." The policemen assigned to end the hostage-taking appeared to lack modern weapons and communication equipment, and as a result were hesitant to attack the gunman, who was armed with an M-16 assault rifle. The Police failed to calm the hostage-taker down and hear him out.
* An unnamed retired Philippine military official who wrote a counter-terrorism manual and now runs a security consultancy:The police had enough expertise and equipment to deal with such an incident, but they were not put to use। "We have everything, except the execution was poorly done." He was critical of the stop-go negotiations and "tentative" assault launched after gunshots rang out from inside the bus, adding that the police should have disabled the TV monitor early on."Contact (by negotiators) should have been constant. It's the talking that does a lot.When you order an assault, it has to be an assault. There is no such thing as a tentative assault.If 10 policemen have to die, they have to die in that assault." Many of the policemen on the scene, some of them seen crouching without any body armour behind patrol cars, did not appear to be fully trained Special Weapons and Tactics (SWAT) personnel. "They just put helmets on certain people."
* Trial judge Jaime Santiago, a former SWAT officer:The police failed to impose crowd control in the hostage site and panicked after hearing gunshots from the bus। "They should have put a tactical force, SWAT snipers and an assault team on standby during the negotiation so that if the hostage-taker started harming people, they would act."
* Mr.Lionel de Souza, a former officer of Singapore's Criminal Investigation Department, recalled a similar hijacking of a bus in Singapore: "I think that was in 1978 in Seng Poh Road in Tiong Bahru। The police were chasing some robbers and they jumped onto an SBS bus which was (carrying) passengers। (The robbers) sort of held them hostage। At that time, hostage negotiation was not well known। Nevertheless, the retired assistant commissioner - Tan Kah Wan - I think he did a good job. There was no loss of lives but there was the arrest of the hostage takers." In the Manila hostage tragedy, one image that left many doubting was the action of armed police who had crept up around the bus."They started smashing the windows with the sledgehammer, trying to wrench open the door with a rope. That by itself is a provocation to the criminal, and because he is already agitated, adding more pressure to his already troubled mind would entail him to sort of do things that a person with a proper frame of mind would not do. He may be a decorated police officer, he may know the law, but these tensions were building within him." Negotiations could have gone on longer as it was important to wear down the hijacker in such a crisis. Singapore is well-poised to handle a similar crisis, with hostage negotiators being well-trained.
There's a remote theory out there that the hostage-taker specifically choose Chinese tourists because he himself was discharged from the police by a Chinese-Filipino, Alfredo Lim, the ex-Mayor of Manila.
A lot of police officers hate him because he has a strict policy with regards to corruption. Most likely why the hostage taker was terminated. However, Alfredo Lim was a corrupt public figure in his heyday as well.
Keep in mind, 60-80% of the police over there succumb to corruption. The remaining few are newer officers or are just scared for their lives to whistle blow. If everyone you report to is corrupt, they can easily make your life a living hell.
Its too bad that its not a crime to be completely tactless and disrespectful after a tragic event where innocent lives were lost.
If you look at their faces, it makes me even more angry. Girl #1 on the far left has an expression that looks like someone put something gross and smelly under her nose. Girl #2 has a sour look on her face and worst of all, the second to last girl has an obvious big-ass smile on her face.
At least try and appear solemn when your whole country was put to international shame due to incompetency from both the police force and the politicians who are supposed to be prepared for situations such as these.
I'm just glad they're wearing long ass skirts cause no one would want to see any more than they need to of these ugly-ass bitches anyways.
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I was wondering just now....
Since the hostages have been taken over for several hours already. The gunman himself should be pretty fatigued from all the stress. If only the SWAT could've waited a bit longer, perhaps the gunman might crash or faint, preventing all that unnecessary firing?
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