REVscene Automotive Forum - Scammed $5250 from Evo Garage

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One more thing. This sounds like less to do with blaming an ECU for damage and more about trusting the customer-- especially if you are going out of your own way to help someone after a cash purchase.

To use the BMW example: Say I have a modded BMW. Something's wrong. I'm worried the dealer might deny my warranty (even if they wouldn't have). So I swap my stock parts back.

When the SA asks "any mods?" I say no.

Then if the SA finds out later that I was lying. Now suddenly I have lost trust. And because I lied to him, the SA thinks now I have something to hide. So very likely the SA would deny warranty coverage based on that alone. And don't tell me SAs are angels and they would never do that because I'd never believe you.

ROFL InteGSR-99
I didn't take a side. Try reading what I actually wrote. I understand that you relate with running off at the mouth, but you didn't invalidate my comments. Really, the most intelligent thing you can come up with is "idiot"¿ You speak volumes about yourself, you have my pity.

The fact that these motors are known to burn a lot of oil is pretty irrelevant when all the oil is getting blasted out of one cylinder...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eff-1 (Post 7347803)

This is different though. This situation is more like the following:

You buy a BMW, and it develops a problem. Since you are able to, you swap in a spare part to replace what you think may be causing the problem. The problem persists, so you revert the car to it's original setup and bring the car in for warranty.

Regardless of the fact that the swapped part was in there at some point, it was installed AFTER the problems began. Combine this with the fact that David still seems to hold some kind of link between using a different ECU after the leak began, and the cause of the leak, leaves me with a pretty weak image of EvoGarage and David.

I'm also unsure of how the same issue continuing after another rebuild becomes a new problem? This just sounds like another attempt to get out of the warranty/repair.

Now I'm wondering WHY the engine wasn't sent to someone local for a look over BEFORE it got sent back to Winnipeg? And David's agreement with the machine shop in Winnipeg about the status of the warranty leaves me wondering if they even did any work to the engine after all for the second rebuild?

So let me get this straight,

... you noticed the engine was burning too much oil... so you take it to mission and go racing.

http://www.revscene.net/forums/type-...html?p=7097651

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron Chef (Post 7097651)

any of you itr owners want to go drag racing at mission street legals sept 10th?

or are you all pussy ass hard parkers;)

Ok... and you think Dave should warranty this why?

Quote:

Originally Posted by dangonay (Post 7347677)

First off, props to Evo for actually telling Ed to take the cylinder head to an independent shop and letting them figure out what's wrong. Perhaps cooler heads will prevail on boths sides and things can get resolved.

However, I still take exception to you and the machine shop deciding to void the warranty on the engine simply because he had a modded ECU.

I work for BMW and their official policy is that in order to deny warranty on a modded car there has to be a direct link between the modification and the resulting damage/problem. And this has to be something that can be proven, not simply speculation.

Many BMW owners have aftermarket mods that are not from Dinan and were not purchased through BMW (in fact, most modded BMW's are done this way). And for the majority of these modded cars BMW still honors the warranty, even though it's modded. This is because technicians can't link the resulting engine problem to the modification.

Now people might think BMW is being nice about this, but that's not it. It's because legally they (and any dealer for that matter) would lose in court if they tried to deny a warranty and couldn't prove to the judge the link between the modification and the damage. It's the same reason dealers can't void your warranty because you get your oil changes done at an independent shop.

I should also clarify what I mean by "voiding warranty". Even at BMW we've had customers in who had to pay out of their own pocket for a repair due to an aftermarket modification. That same person comes in at a later date with a different problem, and this time BMW honors the warranty, again even though the car is modded. Why is this? Because they treat each problem as a separate claim. Even if your mod was found to be the cause of a problem, it doesn't mean your entire warranty is void - it only means that warranty on that specific component is void. And if a component is replaced and the mod that affected it is removed, then warranty continues on with that component as normal.

So I'm curious why Evo would void Ed's warranty, unless they had specific proof that Ed's use of a modded ECU directly resulted in the oil problem.

And as a note to Evo, are most of your customers regular people buying stock engines to put in their stock cars, or are they part of the tuning/modding crowd who like to fix up their cars? Cuz if I'm hearing you right, you think a modded engine should have no warranty which might make a lot of future customers think twice about getting an engine from you if they have to be worried about what they do to it or use it for.

Sorry but I'd like it if you can get your facts straight before posting something so ridiculous. I don't think BMW would be very happy knowing that you are speaking on their behalf with such ridiculous claims.

Seeing how you WORK at BMW, here are some FACTS that you may want to brush up on.

There is SOME truth to what you are saying, such as; Customer comes back to BMW looking to warranty their leaky shocks, BMW notices that you have installed an intake, BMW WILL warranty your shocks.

This is where you are completely wrong, review your BMW policy when you get back to work tomorrow;

Customer comes back to BMW and says I am burning oil, BMW notices you have after market engine management system installed, REGARDLESS of what part of the power unit is damaged or faulty, BMW WILL laugh at you and tell you to leave. THEY WILL NOT WARRANTY YOUR ENGINE!
We are speaking of the engine management unit, a critical component to the engine itself. ANY form of aftermarket/modification in how the computers talk to the engine are SOLID GROUNDS TO DISCHARGE OF WARRANTY.

You go to BMW and purchase new rotors and pads, you are too cheap to have them install it because the interweb says you can do it on your driveway. You then go back to BMW and claim warranty ANYWHERE on the braking system, AGAIN, BMW will laugh at you and tell you to leave.

JCW is an aftermarket support for MINI, they provide all sorts of goodies for the car. This is the ONLY aftermarket brand that the BMW GROUP will warranty with their vehicles. HOWEVER, AGAIN, if you make the purchase on your own and then install it somewhere else aside from MINI, then try and go back to claim warranty, they will laugh at you and tell you to leave.

EVEN DINAN, BMW sells this brand in house and offers support on it. You bought a brand new BMW and decide to have a Dinan engine management system installed FROM BMW, your engine then takes a crap, BMW WILL NOT WARRANTY THIS! Dinan offers warranty to your vehicle given that their products are installed by BMW, you as the customer will have to contact Dinan directly for your claim.

Another note, EVO GARAGE is NOT the manufacture of the HONDA ENGINE, they are NOT HONDA. We are talking about a used, rebuilt engine being sold on private terms. How can you even apply your BMW manufactures warranty on an individual? You my friend suffer from selective reading or have a hard time comprehending what you read.

Quote:

Originally Posted by divine (Post 7348006)

u make no sense at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chargedpower (Post 7348154)

u make no sense at all.

I don't expect you to comprehend anything that I have written. All you seem to be good at is failing and flaming people all across revscene.
Posted via RS Mobile

any oem BMW part installed by a dealer is covered under warranty including labour, up to 2 years from date of installation, with special provisions for batteries (pro rating) and emission control parts (cats - up to 8 years). However if you get just parts and install yourself, all you can claim is over the counter parts warranty for the part not labour, and to claim parts warranty it has to be faulted by a BMW dealership shop.

as mentioned, Dinan offers a comprehensive warranty that emulates a BMW warranty when their products are installed by BMW techs @ a BMW facility. Everything else is essentially SOL. When anyone messes with the DME other than BMW, BMW warranty is essentially gone (DME itself and any faults that are directly caused by a tampered DME, for example)

as always, it's a case-by-case scenario. As an interesting tidbit, BMW can void vehicle warranty when runflats are changed out in favor of conventional tires, it's in the fine prints as they stand firm on the grounds that newer bmws were designed with runflats in mind. I'm not saying they will, I'm saying it's a possibility.

kinda off topic..that's all I can remember for now from the BMW warranty bible.

carry on. :)

I do hope this nasty affair comes to an equittable resolution, for all parties involved.

no better way to seat the rings in at the track.

oil consumption is one thing, oil consumption in one cylinder where you can physically see where the oil leaking onto the intake valve and pooling onto the face of the valve and the combustion chamber is physically damp from the oil is another.

so before david got this motor it was consuming oil, after he got it rebuilt, from day 1 it was comsuming oil, after it was rebuilt a 2nd time, from day 1 it has been consuming oil.... yes this is huge coincidence

but thanks for coming out

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasonturbo (Post 7347862)

So let me get this straight,

... you noticed the engine was burning too much oil... so you take it to mission and go racing.

http://www.revscene.net/forums/type-...html?p=7097651

Ok... and you think Dave should warranty this why?

for sake of this getting ugly, i will refrain from making further comments in this thread.

I will diagnose the problem and will deal with david personally on resolution. I think that it is best for both parties to figure this out in private.

I will post an update when a solution has been reached.

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron Chef (Post 7348199)

Smartest thing you've done since going to Mission.

Those of you shitting on Iron Chef for going to Mission with this motor - do everybody a favour and drive your car off a cliff. You idiots don't even know how motor break-in works.

alright. seems that the OP has chosen an alternative route for finding a resolution to this matter, therefore this thread will be closed. Please do report back on a new thread on how things are after it gets resolved.

thread has been re-opened as requested by OP. He has updates.

apparently OP is selling the car as a shell.

http://www.revscene.net/forums/showthread.php?t=648523

we'll let him post his update and hear what he has to say when he's online. I'll leave it open till then.

In b4 update!

Berz out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tofu1413 (Post 7492420)

apparently OP is selling the car as a shell.

http://www.revscene.net/forums/showthread.php?t=648523

ya i was gonna comment on his thread asking if it was a teg shell

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean_wong (Post 7348222)

Those of you shitting on Iron Chef for going to Mission with this motor - do everybody a favour and drive your car off a cliff. You idiots don't even know how motor break-in works.

Oh shush Sean.

So this is the update.

With having only 1500km pass since the last rebuild the motor was consuming more then when i gave the motor to David at Evo garage at a rate of 1L/800km and consumption was coming from all 4 cylinders.

I had removed the cylinder head and this is what i found
http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/6...ebuild1012.jpg
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/587...ebuild1015.jpg
http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/5...ebuild1020.jpg

Oh found where the consumption is coming from
http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/5...ebuild1008.jpg
http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/6...ebuild1005.jpg
http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/7...ebuild1003.jpg
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/284...ebuild1001.jpg

So every single cylinder wall is scored along the whole circumference of each cylinder wall and Cylinder 4 being the worst. Immediately e-mailed David the pictures and forward them to the machine shop because i would like an explanation of how this could happen.

The response i got was that they believe there was contamination that had gotten into the cylinders from either running engine without and air filter or there was contamination in the intake manifold or unsanitary conditions and that neither David or the Machine shop is going to Accept responsibility for this.

I couldn't really help but laugh when i heard this..

So let me get this straight. I assembled the short block and cylinder head, drive over 10000km and have it consume oil in cylinder #1 since day 1 and have no damage to any of my cylinder walls. Send back to them to repair 1 cylinder, only to get charged for a rebuild i didn't consent to but pay for anyways, receive a fully assembled long block, drive 1500km to have all my cylinder walls scored... yeah that pretty much sums it up.

So there isn't really any conclusion, The offer to pay for the repair of my cylinder head is still open, but as you can see from these pictures my cylinder head is the least of my worries.