Fun to drive because of HP or handling?

Yeah I doubt that.. this is the V6 you're talking about. At 3450 lbs, seats that belong on a bus, and suspension like a camry, I don't think it'd be much in the way of fun.

I don't see how it'd be any cheaper to maintain either.

I wonder if this applies to Canadian buyers? (I doubt it)

First 86 Scion FR-S Buyers Get The Royal Treatment

First 86 Scion FR-S Buyers Get The Royal Treatment
The first 86 Scion FR-S buyers are getting all sorts of special perks, as we were first to report. We just didn't know what the perks were until now. If you're not one of the first 86 buyers you may not want to keep reading.
In addition to being able to boast about being one of the first Scion FR-S owners in America, which is already cool even if you were just lucky, there's an all-expenses-paid trip to Long Beach, California for you and a guest this April.

Why would you want to go to Long Beach in April? Why, for Formula Drift of course. All owners (and their guests) will get front-row seats for the show. There's also a tour of the Toyota Motor Sports National HQ and the Toyota Automobile Museum.

Frankly, we wish more automakers would do this. Scion has no enthusiast history in this country, but Toyota does and they're smartly building on that foundation.

There's also dinner with Scion VP Jack Hollis where you'll be able to ask him any question you want. Any in the world. Like what he puts in his hair. He must use a lot of product. How else does he get it to stand up straight like an anime character?

Ok, so it doesn't technically say that in the invitation. But he's always answered our questions in the past. You should ask. Just don't blame us if you end up with a purple automatic FR-S. That's on you.

The Mustang has a much bigger aftermarket support, and domestics are always cheaper to maintain.

The 4.6 makes the same amount of power as the new V6...hella fun to drive.

I bet they would be close to each other in a straight line stock just because of the weight difference. And the frs would probably take it in the corners. and it won't take long at all for there to be lots of aftermarket parts for the frs.

just my thoughts but if I had a choice I would take a Japanese car over an American car.
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Right, yes I know that's the conventional wisdom but seriously how is it going to be cheaper for maintenance?

In the last three years I've had my s2k the only maintenance items have been engine oil / filter every 5k, transmission fluid and diff fluid once a year, brake pads, brake fluid, and rotors every 18 months, one set of tires, a valve adjustment after 2 years, and the cabin air filter when I feel like it. Now compared to my old Mazda3, all of these maintenance items cost the same, maybe a couple bucks more in some cases (we're talking like $25 more for a set of brake pads). And I bet you it would've cost the same on a Mustang, or an FR-S.

Imo what people really mean by "domestics are cheaper to maintain" is that when shit breaks, parts come cheaper. But you're talking about the new V6 Mustang, and the FR-S is released this year, so both of them are going to have powertrain warranties for the next 5 years and bumper-to-bumper for the next 3. So purely on the basis of literally "maintenance", again I really don't see how the Mustang would be any cheaper. This would be a whole other story if the FR-S was some euro car that needed special tools for everything.

I guess this is really subjective but the 4.6L V8 didn't feel all that quick when I drove one - probably it's the gearing and weight. And this new V6 makes 45 lb-ft less torque too so I can't imagine it being any better. And really the quickness is all it has going for it right? I mean seriously have you sat in a V6 mustang? I'm not kidding when I say the seats belong on a bus. And I suppose Camrys aren't SO bad in the twisties either..

^
Honestly I see no point in comparing the 2 cars, they exist because there are markets for both of them I don't really see them as competitors........ but it does sound like you might be basing your opinions on an old Mustang you sat in years ago. The new ones handle well, the seats are not from a bus, and the current gen V6 is very powerful.... or should feel quick stepping out of an S2k just on a power below 5k basis (don't get me wrong, I love the S2k, but it's not a powerful car)

I still wouldn't buy one personally, but I just don't like the way the car feels... or the fact it is so heavy. I'm more excited about the FR-S/BR-Z............... but no way would I buy one new... Toyota always releases the best of their cars in the last years of production... one day! :D

This is all regarding Over9k's suggestion that a V6 Mustang would be "a lot more fun to drive" than an FR-S though. Sure there have been big improvements in handling over the outgoing model but it's still over 3400 lbs, and massive in comparison. Physics is physics. I mean you don't see Chris Harris raving about the driving experience of a V6 Mustang. A Boss 302 maybe, but the base V6??

Yes, the 4.6L V8 felt quick stepping out of my S2000, absolutely. But that wasn't going through my mind when I got to drive one. When you get into a Mustang GT, you're more inclined to recall the C63 you drove last year, or that 350z from a couple weeks ago, or your buddy's Trans Am. Point is, when I get in a Mustang I expect to be throw into the seat because that's what it's for, in the same way that you expect an S2000 to be slow but carve through a hairpin like you wouldn't believe. Had to be gearing because a stock STI with the same kind of power will put a grin on my face 10 times out of 10.

Anyway imo, the target market for V6 Mustangs is people who love the look and heritage of a Mustang but don't actually need the power and handling of the GT. That's fine. But you aren't going to find these people at the track or at an autocross that's for sure. I maintain that it's ridiculous to be suggesting that it'd be "a lot more fun to drive" than an FR-S.. seriously if that ends up being true, the FR-S is going to be a pretty massive failure.

Not many people take their cars to the track, I doubt more than 10% FRS/BRZ sold are going to be taken to the track.

Most people just have fun on the streets (not that I condone street racing), hence why I say the pony will be much more fun to most people.

Yet you throw a base gt v8 model in there and it is slower than the m3 by 1-2 seconds per lap? Hmmm

Okay I don't want to be banned like taylor :lol. So yeah sorry, the V6 Mustang is absolutely way more fun to drive than an FR-S. The MX-5 starts at $29,000 and it makes only 167hp so that's clearly a zero on the fun meter.

Edit: Actually in all seriousness I just checked ford.ca, these V6 Mustangs are $21,000. That's actually really crazy. Corolla money for 305hp lol.

I sent an email to Richmond Subaru and Don Docksteader Subaru politely asking about some information about the availability of the Subaru BRZ. Neither of them replied :(

I wonder if car dealerships are based more on face-to-face interactions rather than newer forms of communication. Stuck in their ways perhaps?

Email Subaru in Kelowna. They are known for their exceptional service. If you're willing to take the drive out there too, most of the time better prices as well.

that's cuz dealerships and the sales people that fill the showrooms are mostly more clueless about what's coming down the pipe line compared to an enthusiast. at best, they know just as much as we do.

They probably have no idea what a BRZ is. LOL

Lol on the M/T article the Pro driver barely beat the GT (less than half a second) but when the "not-so-pro" driver set times on both cars the GT actually beat the M3 by a good 1 or 2 seconds, surprising results IMO thinking that the GT would be a handful for a less experienced driver

The price on the BRZ is a little steep for those of us who would consider buying used, and FWIW I think the used car prices will be pretty high too for the first 2/3 years, there are just too many fun to drive used cars under 20k for me to even consider the BRZ for the time being.

Yea but under 20k in today's market with someone like me, who has a criteria of a car having stock turbo, RWD, and modern interior is pretty hard to find

What the hell made you think stock turbo? :P

Hahaha I was thinking that too, wth?

it would be really hard for to decide between the frs/brz and a used s2000

2013 Scion FR-S Priced at $24,200 - Scion FR-S Forum | Subaru BRZ Forum | Toyota 86 GT 86 Forum | AS1 Forum - FT86CLUB

6253 6MT FA20 $24,200
6252 6AT FA20 $25,300

lol people in that thread are complaining that's too high...americans have it too easy
that's on par with the Civic Si

all in USD, I'm assuming.
but man, that pricing is fantastic news. that would place the CAD pricing around 28-29k?

Boourns on me.....

That's not too bad I think... not sure what you get, just says it on the annoucement email I received... I remember in 2000 when the Celica came out, I bought a GT for $23,850 incuding the $500 option for the spoiler... and that was only 140hp... and the GT-S with 180hp was like $29,000+ fees

^ Holy shit that's a smoking deal.

Was it a reliable source?