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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current Events The off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.

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Old 11-21-2013, 11:29 AM   #3226
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There are multiple reasons why someone who the public thinks is 'guilty' would want to plead 'not guilty'.

For me, the most obvious ones are the fundamental principles that everyone before the law is innocent unless proven guilty and the right not to incriminate yourself. Second, their lawyers may tell them to (this is somewhat self-interested but they also have a duty to their clients). Third, if you plead guilty you accept ALL the facts of the case (when only some things may be true). Plus, the government has the obligation to prove each element of a crime (a standard that might not be met). Fourth, the prosecution may have a weak case. Fifth, the prosecutor may be overzealous and overcharges (this may happen more with high profile cases). Finally, this may be part of strategy (i.e. get a better deal as trials are expensive, etc).
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Last edited by bing; 11-21-2013 at 11:41 AM.
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Old 11-21-2013, 11:36 AM   #3227
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There are multiple reasons why someone who the public thinks is "guilty" would want to plead "not guilty".

For me, the most obvious ones are the fundamental principles that everyone before the law is innocent unless proven guilty and the right not to incriminate yourself. Second, their lawyers may tell them to (this is somewhat self-interested but they also have a duty to their clients). Third, if you plead guilty you accept all the facts of the case (when only some are true). Plus, the government has the obligation to prove each element of a crime. Fourth, the prosecution may have a weak case. Fifth, the prosecution may be overcharging. Finally, this may be part of strategy since they may get a better deal (as trials are expensive, etc).
well put. It slipped my mind that the Defence lawyer's job is to pick a part Crown's case, whether or not the Accused did or didn't commit the crime.
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Old 12-20-2013, 07:07 AM   #3228
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Stanley Cup rioter Cacnio pleads guilty to new charge



Convicted rioter Camille Cacnio pleaded guilty on a new charge of theft Thursday, receiving a 30-day conditional sentence in B.C. Provincial Court.

The University of B.C. grad was also fined $50 for the Sept. 13 theft — less than three months after she was sentenced for breaching her riot-offence-imposed curfew.

Cacnio is best known for being caught on camera lifting a pair of oversized tuxedo pants from a shop during the 2011 Stanley Cup riot.

According to the court, her sentence would be followed with a probationary period of 18 months.

Rioter Cacnio pleads guilty to new charge | Vancouver 24 hrs

Stop giving all these slap on the wrist sentenceing..........
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Old 12-20-2013, 10:01 AM   #3229
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I'm all for giving people second chances, but does doing something stupid for the 3rd time still deserve this much leniency? The duration of the conditional sentence is a fxxking joke.
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Old 12-20-2013, 10:05 AM   #3230
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50 bucks? thats almost half of what I had to pay for a parking ticket... I guess stealing is less of an offence than parking in an empty parking lot.
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Old 12-20-2013, 12:18 PM   #3231
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Like I told you guys in the past, Cacnio is a princess compared to others out there. She has been made the scapegoat of the Stanley Cup Riot. What she got is pretty much what you would expect for anyone in her situation. It may SEEM like a slap on the wrist to you guys, but the reality of it is, she got what anyone else in her shoes would have gotten. She has been Charged only a handful of times, and convicted 3 times her whole life. Sure, the convictions all have been within the last few years, but still, she is anything but what is considered a Chronic or Profilic offender. Could this be a start? Maybe.

I think the 50 dollars she was fined was about how much she stole. That isn't her only punishment, so you cannot compare it to a speeding ticket. A speeding ticket doesn't also come with a Conditional Sentence Order. You guys also have to realize that for the offences she committed, it would be very hard to justify restricting her "freedom" which is setting a curfew/conditions on her.

In the grand scheme of things Cacnio stole from two businesses, and breached her probation.
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Old 12-20-2013, 12:28 PM   #3232
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What she got is pretty much what you would expect for anyone in her situation. It may SEEM like a slap on the wrist to you guys, but the reality of it is, she got what anyone else in her shoes would have gotten. She has been Charged only a handful of times, and convicted 3 times her whole life. Sure, the convictions all have been within the last few years, but still, she is anything but what is considered a Chronic or Profilic offender. Could this be a start? Maybe.

In the grand scheme of things Cacnio stole from two businesses, and breached her probation.
I am not saying it was only Cacnio that got off easy -- rather, it is our level of systemically light punishment for repeated offenders that I do not agree with. As you have pointed out yourself, Cacnio got what anyone else in her shoes would have gotten.

I thought breaching probation is a big deal. Obviously, with only a 30-day conditional sentence, the court doesn't think it is. For a 3rd offence committed within her probation period, I expected something longer.
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Old 12-20-2013, 02:22 PM   #3233
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I am not saying it was only Cacnio that got off easy -- rather, it is our level of systemically light punishment for repeated offenders that I do not agree with. As you have pointed out yourself, Cacnio got what anyone else in her shoes would have gotten.

I thought breaching probation is a big deal. Obviously, with only a 30-day conditional sentence, the court doesn't think it is. For a 3rd offence committed within her probation period, I expected something longer.
Depending on what is on her Probation Order, the Theft she just plead guilty for wasn't a Breach. It was a new offence, and it was for Theft Under $5000, which most people get convicted of via Summary, not Indictable. Only time will tell if this is all the beginnings of a Chronic offender.

And btw, you are preaching to the choir here.
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Old 01-28-2014, 06:14 PM   #3234
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VANCOUVER (NEWS1130) A young woman who torched a police car during the Stanley Cup Riot nearly three years ago has been sentenced.

Alicia Price will spend 90 days in jail before serving 15 months probation and community service.

She was one of the first to be arrested after being IDd online, and later pleaded guilty to taking part in a riot and attempted arson.

To date, over 270 people have been charged in relation to the riot and over 140 people have been sentenced.

Another Stanley Cup rioter sentenced | News1130
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Old 01-28-2014, 06:17 PM   #3235
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wow 90 days. Impressive. Not being sarcastic either.
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Old 01-28-2014, 06:32 PM   #3236
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I agree. "Wow" was one of the first things that popped into my head as well.
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Old 01-28-2014, 07:03 PM   #3237
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Honestly, how long do you guys want these people to go to jail for? One year? 5 years? Their whole life?

The girl who torched the vehicle only caused property damage in the grand scheme of things. Should we be jailing the people who damage the plexiglass on skytrains for years as well?

You guys need to stop looking for blood and view the crime in a more subjective manner.
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Old 01-28-2014, 07:29 PM   #3238
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Old 01-28-2014, 07:35 PM   #3239
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Old 01-28-2014, 07:43 PM   #3240
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TBH i rather have that person pay for part of the damage than jail time instead of using tax payers money to replace the cop car
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Old 01-28-2014, 08:40 PM   #3241
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Honestly, how long do you guys want these people to go to jail for? One year? 5 years? Their whole life?

The girl who torched the vehicle only caused property damage in the grand scheme of things. Should we be jailing the people who damage the plexiglass on skytrains for years as well?

You guys need to stop looking for blood and view the crime in a more subjective manner.
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Mischief to property is a different offence than Taking part in a riot. There is a reason they are two different offences, and why one has a more serious punishment.

We all know that with Canada's justice system, everyone will get more or less a slap on the wrist. So to me, anything longer than "time served" is an upgrade.
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Old 01-28-2014, 08:51 PM   #3242
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my opinion on the matter is that she should be given alternative measures rather than jail time but thats simply my personal opinion. a formal written apology, community service hours and restitution to the VPD for the crown vic she torched would be better IMO than 90 days served in jail.



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Honestly, how long do you guys want these people to go to jail for? One year? 5 years? Their whole life?

The girl who torched the vehicle only caused property damage in the grand scheme of things. Should we be jailing the people who damage the plexiglass on skytrains for years as well?

You guys need to stop looking for blood and view the crime in a more subjective manner.
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Old 01-28-2014, 09:02 PM   #3243
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my opinion on the matter is that she should be given alternative measures rather than jail time but thats simply my personal opinion. a formal written apology, community service hours and restitution to the VPD for the crown vic she torched would be better IMO than 90 days served in jail.
she may have had prior convictions that led to that judgement. She plead guilty and still received 90 days... so either she didn't lawyer up, her lawyer was brutal, and/or she had history...

it's safe to say that most first time offenders, unless it is for really serious crimes, will get barely if any jail time, and would get alternative measures.
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Old 01-29-2014, 01:44 AM   #3244
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Mischief to property is a different offence than Taking part in a riot. There is a reason they are two different offences, and why one has a more serious punishment.

We all know that with Canada's justice system, everyone will get more or less a slap on the wrist. So to me, anything longer than "time served" is an upgrade.
So what is worse? Someone who for no reason purposely causes damage to property or someone who purposely causes damage when they get caught up in the situation?
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Old 01-29-2014, 02:05 AM   #3245
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Honestly, how long do you guys want these people to go to jail for? One year? 5 years? Their whole life?

The girl who torched the vehicle only caused property damage in the grand scheme of things. Should we be jailing the people who damage the plexiglass on skytrains for years as well?

You guys need to stop looking for blood and view the crime in a more subjective manner.
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Riot people? Who damage company property? Not so much.
Confinement? A bit.
Community service, more please.

Repeat offenders?
Who not only got charged, but do more bad things?
Then flaunt their conditions and probation?
If they hurt companies? Still not that much.
Hit them HARD with fines and more community service.


If you hurt and set back a HUMAN BEING?
Eff you.
Lock you away.
and if it's bad.
Exile you to an island.
If you want to act-out in a way that isn't in accordance with our civilization, we should remove you from it.

Canada needs our own Australia.
Too bad the capital is on Vancouver Island.
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Old 01-29-2014, 03:13 AM   #3246
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It's funny how wishy-washy revscene is about this. At the time of the riots, 100% of people are on the "throw-the-book" camp with all rioting participants.

3 years removed, now everyone is just:
*It's just a riot,
*It's just property damage
*It's just a torched car
*It's just assaulting a fireman, paramedic, peace officer

It's funny how time has trivialized everything - or the event in its entirety.
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Old 01-29-2014, 06:25 AM   #3247
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Old 01-29-2014, 06:49 AM   #3248
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I have a copy of the book on my shelves at work and home. I assure you if it got thrown at you itd hurt

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The book in Canada is a thin magazine.
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Old 01-29-2014, 07:10 AM   #3249
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The book in Canada is a thin magazine.
Do you even know what the CCC looks like? It isn't the CCC that is the problem...

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So what is worse? Someone who for no reason purposely causes damage to property or someone who purposely causes damage when they get caught up in the situation?
Being "caught up" in a situation is not an excuse. There were many people who were "caught up" while the riot was going on and LEFT the situation immediately. And then there were those who were morons who wanted to join hundreds of others in destroying the heart of Vancouver, on live TV. There really is no excuse that justifies participating in a riot. Being drunk is also not an excuse for committing any crime, nor is the crowd mentality. We are all (arguably) civilized, and more or less, adults.
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Old 01-29-2014, 08:25 AM   #3250
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a formal written apology, community service hours and restitution to the VPD for the crown vic she torched would be better IMO than 90 days served in jail.


seriously though, i wouldn't mind her paying back the damage of a new crown vic. after all the VPD hardware you put in to it, it must cost $100k for the car? just guessing. but imagine her criminal record now...gets pulled over, cops runs a check...."arson" and "riot" pop up
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