13 supercars impounded in Surrey?

[Great68]

Watching the news and the stupid smirk that ditch witch Shirly Bond had on her face when she made her statements made me fucking want to kick my TV.

Someone needs to throw a pile of shit on her front door with a note that reads "This is representative of your civil forfeiture law"

[taylor192]

Originally Posted by Marco911

Driving is a privilege but ownership of private property is a right.

Ownership of private property is not a right, you watch too much TV. The law governs what we can and cannot own. We wouldn't be discussing this if private property was a right cause criminal and civil forfeiture wouldn't exist.

Originally Posted by Marco911

If the govt wants to prevent someone from driving they can suspend their license. While the fine is not a deterrent, the points system is.

The points system is not a deterrent. Atlantic provinces had to enact roadside checks for insurance and suspended licenses the problem got so bad there, people would just drive anyways - yet you'd jump all over this too cause these roadside checks would somehow infringe on your "rights".

Originally Posted by Marco911

If you think confiscating their cars will prevent them from driving, think again. The are still licensed and can legally drive. Perhaps you would support chopping off their arms and legs as the "final solution" to the alleged aggressive driving problem?

Chopping their arms and legs off is not a legal solution. Since you're adamant about "rights" how about we stick to legal solutions instead of you ranting and raving idiotically. Civil forfeiture is perfectly legal, and has stood the test of the Supreme court.

If everytime they drove they risked losing a $200K asset, it would change their mind pretty quickly (unless they have that much money to burn).

[taylor192]

Originally Posted by originalhypa

You should move to Libya.

Oh yeah, they just did away with their dictator too, so maybe that won't fit your view of utopia. Maybe North Korea will fit the bill?

If only you didn't hide behind having the fail button disabled.

You should read the laws of the country you live in before telling others to move elsewhere.

[dachinesedude]

holy i thought they would only get their license suspended at most, but taking away their cars? thats a bit too much

i hope some of them sues

[taylor192]

Originally Posted by xpl0sive

i though the whole point of the civil forfeture act was to take away property from criminals due to the property being proceeds of crime. drug dealers getting their vehicles taken away, but that can only happen if there is enough evidence against them where the crown can PROVE that they paid for the vehicle with drug money.... in this case, the vehicles are not proceeds of crime. they were allegedly used in a "race". the article itself says that the police do not have enough evidence to proceed with criminal charges... so on what basis can their vehicles be taken away? because of a bunch of witnesses that cannot even confirm exactly how fast these cars were going? give me a break, this is all such bullshit

Lookup the difference between criminal and civil forfeiture. Lots of cases go to civil court that cannot be tried in criminal court.

[Drow]

Originally Posted by FerrariEnzo

i find it funny when they say that there isnt enough evidence of criminal act..

SPEEDING on the hwy which endangers other lives... thats enough in it self..

they should be BANNED from having a drivers license, especially the N drivers... then put them under house arrest... no going out after 8pm or something.. FUCKING kids need to learn the hard way...

i know a nice country that might suit your needs...

CHINER

but then again i dont think even china is that radical in terms of communism.

[1990TSI]

I wander if mattzhang is hoping to get his R8 seized so his parents buy him a real car.

[nack]

^shame he's not going to buy his own car anytime soon eh?

[Ferra]

this is making our media and legal system looks like a witch hunt gong show

I wish they too can be this tough against known criminals whom they have no hard evidence against

[dangonay]

I'm hoping this will go to court (not like those pussies with the M6 and F430 who got forfeited last year and didn't even bother fighting).

Not because I want to see them lose their cars, but because I want to see the outcome and what evidence and arguments were made to come to that conclusion (I think they'll keep their cars, but I don't know what evidence they have against these 5 specific individuals).

Then we can debate the evidence given and the final result instead of arguing about things nobody really knows or haven't happened yet. Pretty stupid to say they should lose their cars without any evidence. Likewise it's stupid to say our legal system is becoming more like a police state when this case hasn't even been tried in court yet nor have they lost their cars.

[Great68]

I don't care what the evidence is, to me the civil forfeiture law they're using is just plain wrong. I don't think it's right that they should loose their cars unless those cars were bought with drug money.

[wasabisashimi]

This is so dumb, forfeit car due to suspected speeding and endangering the public safety on no evidence..

Why didnt they hang the guy that T-boned my friend's mom last year. It was way worse than this and with evidence of running a yellow light. He got off with a ticket for running yellow light and ICBC will settle for him.

He gets a new car to drive away.

BC justice system sucks, Stop picking on the rich kids and harrassing them for money, they don't owe you shit.

[donjalapeno]

Originally Posted by 1990TSI

I wander if mattzhang is hoping to get his R8 seized so his parents buy him a real car.

you wander too much

[sebTeggy]

Originally Posted by xpl0sive

......in this case, the vehicles are not proceeds of crime. they were allegedly used in a "race". the article itself says that the police do not have enough evidence to proceed with criminal charges... so on what basis can their vehicles be taken away? because of a bunch of witnesses that cannot even confirm exactly how fast these cars were going? give me a break, this is all such bullshit

Umm, not to be prejudice, but I'm sure all those kids' knees shook like crazy when they got pulled over and admitted to either street racing OR excessive speeding.

A witness does no good on the street and only has use in a court room. I really doubt police would say 'OK someone said you were speeding so we are taking your car away!'

And for the 5/13 kids getting their property seized, that is a tall order. I'm sure they have very good reasoning for this based on their previous driving history. I think it all works out.

The most frustrating part is that Lamborghini and Ferrari are cars for successful, hard-working and motivated entrepreneurs and individuals. I feel almost a faint hit of serenity knowing these spoiled kids with bad manners are finally running into justice. Just look at one of them for example (MB Audi R8) from the summer meet. My mom would beat me to death if I did that. They have no respect for their cars since they didn't work for them, and they have a low level of acceptance when it comes to responsibility.


EDIT: To some degree, it can be said that these vehicles are almost weapons when the drivers are oblivious to their surroundings. Thus, I have no opposition to the provinces decision. Note, that this is coming from someone who got their car seized at the impound lot for a week and learned a lesson.

[Marco911]

Originally Posted by taylor192

Ownership of private property is not a right, you watch too much TV. The law governs what we can and cannot own. We wouldn't be discussing this if private property was a right cause criminal and civil forfeiture wouldn't exist.

Perhaps in the fascist world you think we're living in. Private property is indeed a right. Private property - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The points system is not a deterrent. Atlantic provinces had to enact roadside checks for insurance and suspended licenses the problem got so bad there, people would just drive anyways - yet you'd jump all over this too cause these roadside checks would somehow infringe on your "rights".

How does your example prove that the points system is not a deterrent? Everyone knows that there are potentially large consequences to driving with a suspended license, not limited to having no insurance and the chance of large penalties if caught.

Chopping their arms and legs off is not a legal solution. Since you're adamant about "rights" how about we stick to legal solutions instead of you ranting and raving idiotically.

Chopping off limbs is a legal solution in some societies. Funny enough, those societies, like you, don't believe in private property rights either.

Civil forfeiture is perfectly legal, and has stood the test of the Supreme court.

Wrong. Civil forfeiture is only valid under 2 circumstances according to legal thought:
1) Proceeds of crime
2) Compensation for victims

I submit that this case does not meet either of these standards.

If everytime they drove they risked losing a $200K asset, it would change their mind pretty quickly (unless they have that much money to burn).

Citizens should not live in fear that a law is applied unjustly depending on whether you drive a high performance, expensive vehicle, or happen to be part of a group that has some members who drive aggressively.

[Marco911]

Originally Posted by sebTeggy

Umm, not to be prejudice, but I'm sure all those kids' knees shook like crazy when they got pulled over and admitted to either street racing OR excessive speeding.

A witness does no good on the street and only has use in a court room. I really doubt police would say 'OK someone said you were speeding so we are taking your car away!'

And for the 5/13 kids getting their property seized, that is a tall order. I'm sure they have very good reasoning for this based on their previous driving history. I think it all works out.

The most frustrating part is that Lamborghini and Ferrari are cars for successful, hard-working and motivated entrepreneurs and individuals. I feel almost a faint hit of serenity knowing these spoiled kids with bad manners are finally running into justice. Just look at one of them for example (MB Audi R8) from the summer meet. My mom would beat me to death if I did that. They have no respect for their cars since they didn't work for them, and they have a low level of acceptance when it comes to responsibility.


EDIT: To some degree, it can be said that these vehicles are almost weapons when the drivers are oblivious to their surroundings. Thus, I have no opposition to the provinces decision. Note, that this is coming from someone who got their car seized at the impound lot for a week and learned a lesson.

People like you are part of the problem because you have a complete lack of understanding of how justice is supposed to work. As Winston Churchill famously said, "The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."

[Marco911]

Originally Posted by dangonay

I'm hoping this will go to court (not like those pussies with the M6 and F430 who got forfeited last year and didn't even bother fighting).

Not because I want to see them lose their cars, but because I want to see the outcome and what evidence and arguments were made to come to that conclusion (I think they'll keep their cars, but I don't know what evidence they have against these 5 specific individuals).

If the only evidence they have against the 5 specific individuals is a prior bad driving record would you still support the fact that the Govt is pursuing forfeiture? Watch the video, time stamp 2:15. They are focussing on the cars where the drivers had bad driving records.

This goes back to our previous discussion about the potential for abuse of these laws when they don't have to meet the basic standard of:
1) Proceeds of crime
2) Compensation for victims

And by victims, I mean actual victims that suffer damages, not potential victims.

[wasabisashimi]

Originally Posted by sebTeggy

The most frustrating part is that Lamborghini and Ferrari are cars for successful, hard-working and motivated entrepreneurs and individuals. I feel almost a faint hit of serenity knowing these spoiled kids with bad manners are finally running into justice.

Who says Ferrari's are for successful, hard working, motivated entrepreneurs?

You sounded bitter because you thought they dont deserve such nice car. Think a little more, what if you inherited such car, would you then not drive it cuz you are not a successful hard working entrepreneur?
Do you know how many Ferraris or Aston Martins are owned and driven by criminals who makes their money on drugs? Would you call that successful entrepreneur?

Quit being bitter, furthermore, we dont know these people, how do we know that they have bad manners?

Are you saying everyone who speeds have bad manner, or rich people have bad manner?....

Really?

[bing]

Originally Posted by sebTeggy

The most frustrating part is that Lamborghini and Ferrari are cars for successful, hard-working and motivated entrepreneurs and individuals. I feel almost a faint hit of serenity knowing these spoiled kids with bad manners are finally running into justice. Just look at one of them for example (MB Audi R8) from the summer meet. My mom would beat me to death if I did that. They have no respect for their cars since they didn't work for them, and they have a low level of acceptance when it comes to responsibility.

EDIT: To some degree, it can be said that these vehicles are almost weapons when the drivers are oblivious to their surroundings. Thus, I have no opposition to the provinces decision. Note, that this is coming from someone who got their car seized at the impound lot for a week and learned a lesson.

The most frustrating part is that tank tops are for beautiful, thin girls.... (ok I think you get my drift here)

Just because you got impounded does not mean your reply carries extra weight. Any car, driven in that fashion could be considered a weapon yet you seem to point that out only because it is an exotic. You make an opinion without even a basic grasp of criminal justice, the underlying theoretical principles, and or the role of the constitution. With your kind of reasoning, if you ever get caught excessively speeding or get in an accident (charged with driving without undue care) I hope they seize your car and sell it for victim services.

[Senna4ever]

Originally Posted by Soltaaa

you wander too much

You're not getting the inside joke....but you're a n00b, so you're excused for now.

[donjalapeno]

[Senna4ever]

lol..

Search for the "Wonder/wander" thread from about 3 or 4 years ago.

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by Marco911

If the only evidence they have against the 5 specific individuals is a prior bad driving record would you still support the fact that the Govt is pursuing forfeiture? Watch the video, time stamp 2:15. They are focussing on the cars where the drivers had bad driving records.

This goes back to our previous discussion about the potential for abuse of these laws when they don't have to meet the basic standard of:
1) Proceeds of crime
2) Compensation for victims

And by victims, I mean actual victims that suffer damages, not potential victims.

This has been addressed numerous times now on various radio shows, by several people including the Solicitor General: civil forfeiture law (at least in BC) can also be applied to property used in the commission of a crime.

[taylor192]

Originally Posted by Marco911

Perhaps in the fascist world you think we're living in. Private property is indeed a right. Private property - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Try linking a Canadian law, not some vague Wikipedia article. FFS.

Originally Posted by Marco911

How does your example prove that the points system is not a deterrent? Everyone knows that there are potentially large consequences to driving with a suspended license, not limited to having no insurance and the chance of large penalties if caught.

If you have half a brain you would have understood, yet since you don't I'll give you a hint: Despite the high penalties, people were still driving. Do you need another hint?

Originally Posted by Marco911

Chopping off limbs is a legal solution in some societies. Funny enough, those societies, like you, don't believe in private property rights either.

You're a fucking idiot. I don't know why I waste my time. Welcome to CANADA, chopping off limbs is NOT legal here, and private property is NOT a right. Feel free to look up Canadian, more specially BC law on this and you'll find its NOT as black and white as you idiotically pretend it is. Fuck you're a dumbass.

Originally Posted by Marco911

Wrong. Civil forfeiture is only valid under 2 circumstances according to legal thought:
1) Proceeds of crime
2) Compensation for victims

I submit that this case does not meet either of these standards.

Thankfully you're not a judge. Cause this is civil there's another you have not considered:
3) To remedy the situation

The proceeds of civil forfeiture can be applied not only to the victim, yet also to the prevention of unlawful activities. Since these kids demonstrated that they can block traffic and street race during the day, obviously we need more patrols, so these cars can be seized and sold to pay for more officers to patrol - which remedies the situation.

Welcome to civil law in Canada/BC, go research it before linking another stupid wikipedia article.

Originally Posted by Marco911

Citizens should not live in fear that a law is applied unjustly depending on whether you drive a high performance, expensive vehicle, or happen to be part of a group that has some members who drive aggressively.

My mother once told me: you chose your friends.

If my friends want to go rob a store, or beat a homeless person to death, or any other illegal activity I have the choice of going with them, or letting them go on their own. So lets not pretend the others were just tagging along, I'm not stupid enough to believe that, you might be though.

[LP700-4]

Originally Posted by taylor192

Thankfully you're not a judge. Cause this is civil there's another you have not considered:
3) To remedy the situation

The proceeds of civil forfeiture can be applied not only to the victim, yet also to the prevention of unlawful activities. Since these kids demonstrated that they can block traffic and street race during the day, obviously we need more patrols, so these cars can be seized and sold to pay for more officers to patrol - which remedies the situation.

Okay sure, what you said.

But how do you know they were actually blocking traffic and street racing? Theres no proof of anything.

Unless theres hard evidence of all that happened, there is no situation to remedy.

IF these guys get their cars taken away, whats the rest of the world going to think? In BC you can get your stuff taken away without any proof, just some stories that some other asshole citizens made up.