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Old 07-20-2013, 07:52 PM   #176
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Well, you would need to prove the following:

1-there are "some type" of transmissions happening for more than the claimed seconds or minute
2-those transmissions are different than any other type of transmission in your house

Now, so far no one has been able to do so because we are talking about random youtube videos and no diffinitive proof or evidence that there is an issue.
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Old 07-20-2013, 09:19 PM   #177
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If the smart meters are really only transferring once per day for only 2 seconds, then why are EMF meters able to consistently pick up EMF readings from the smart meters every few minutes?

I personally see a few different possible explanations:

1) the smart meter may well be transmitting more than just once per day for only 2 seconds
2) the smart meter may really only be transmitting usage data to BC Hydro once per day, but to stay in sync with their system, they need regularly maintain communication with the HQ.
3) the EMF readings might not be coming from the smart meter's radio transmissions to BC Hydro. Rather, they are a by product of the meter's normal operations.
4) they are coming from something else entirely
5) the people producing these videos are faking the EMF readings to "prove their point"

Face it, it's unlikely any of these videos are being created by someone who's sure the meters are safe and are just wanting to prove it to the naysayers, only to be surprised by the results... they're made be people who've already decided to hate the meters for one reason or another and are looking for any reason to back up their fears. I suspect most of them have no idea how to properly use or read an EMF meter, either - probably something they bought from a spy store or Deal Extreme, turned it on, watched the needle move, and declared, "AH-HAH! S EE! CANCER IN THE AIR!"
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Old 07-20-2013, 09:28 PM   #178
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Well, you would need to prove the following:

1-there are "some type" of transmissions happening for more than the claimed seconds or minute
2-those transmissions are different than any other type of transmission in your house

Now, so far no one has been able to do so because we are talking about random youtube videos and no diffinitive proof or evidence that there is an issue.
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And #2 is the main issue: there are all manner of EM emissions all around us every day. Someone who doesn't know how to properly use an EMF meter may get readings from any of the following:

Standard house wiring
IF stages in a TV/cable tuner
IF stages in a radio tuner
Cell phones
Cordless phones
Driver stages in most types of monitors or displays
Neighbors' WiFi signals
In some areas, public WiFi broadcast signals (Shaw, et al)
Fluorescent lights
Microwaves
Most types of AC motors (fridges, air conditioning, fans, etc.)
Switching-mode power supplies in computers, phone adapters, chargers, etc.

So once your EMF meter detects something, you then have to determine whether it's actually different from any of these, and stronger than any of these... then explain how all of these other things you've been surrounded by all your life have never caused you a problem, but this one low-power intermittent signal is suddenly shredding your body from the inside out.
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Old 07-20-2013, 09:32 PM   #179
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Traum the general public get their information from the media and the system overall which sees people as cattle and treats it as a commodity, not as human beings. You have to watch out for yourself and ignore the onslaught of sheep that regurgitate the main stream deception.

Lookup DrMercola's shows on grounding pads Ive been using one for over a year started seeing its effects right away.... you can buy them locally too.

16:9 show - forward to the 4:40 mark.
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Old 07-20-2013, 09:49 PM   #180
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Soundy,

Have you actually bothered to look into how those EMF meters/detectors are operated? It's an EMF meter, not a nuclear power plant. You don't need a rocket science degree to know how to use one. Depending on the model and its capabilities, for the most part, you either physically bring the EMF meter closer to the place where you want verify the EMF readings, or you point the antenna towards a general direction. When the number goes up as you bring the EMF meter closer to the smart meter, or when the number goes up when you point the EMF meter towards the smart meter, and the number drops when you move away from the meter or cover the meter up with aluminum foil, I think that is saying something.

You are free to come up with whatever speculations you feel like. None of that changes my first hand experience with them.
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Old 07-20-2013, 10:47 PM   #181
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Soundy,

Have you actually bothered to look into how those EMF meters/detectors are operated? It's an EMF meter, not a nuclear power plant. You don't need a rocket science degree to know how to use one.
No, but you do need a clue as to what an electromagnetic field is and how the meter works, and whether it's tuned to specific frequencies or is just reading broadband emissions.

Once again, your standard house wiring has an EM field around it. Motors do. Lights do. TVs, tuners, radios, and wireless devices of all types are surrounded by them. All have different frequencies, different harmonics, behave differently around various types of metals and enclosures... and all will show up on a broadband meter. It doesn't prove anything except that something is using electricity in the vicinity.

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Depending on the model and its capabilities, for the most part, you either physically bring the EMF meter closer to the place where you want verify the EMF readings, or you point the antenna towards a general direction. When the number goes up as you bring the EMF meter closer to the smart meter, or when the number goes up when you point the EMF meter towards the smart meter, and the number drops when you move away from the meter or cover the meter up with aluminum foil, I think that is saying something.
Have you done this yourself, or is this just based on internet videos made by people with something to prove? How do you know they're not faking it? How do you know they understand what readings they're actually seeing? How do you know their meters are simply displaying the standard 60Hz EM field that exists around all house wiring?
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Old 07-20-2013, 11:07 PM   #182
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hard to argue with these people who probably also believe chemtrails.
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Old 07-20-2013, 11:22 PM   #183
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Once again, your standard house wiring has an EM field around it. Motors do. Lights do. TVs, tuners, radios, and wireless devices of all types are surrounded by them. All have different frequencies, different harmonics, behave differently around various types of metals and enclosures... and all will show up on a broadband meter. It doesn't prove anything except that something is using electricity in the vicinity.
You made a very good point here. This is why I mentioned in my original post that I've been spending countless hours over the years in my computer room without feeling any ill effects until the smart meter got installed. That was the only thing that changed, and that's how I eventually clued in on it being the trigger to my chest pains and nausea.
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Have you done this yourself, or is this just based on internet videos made by people with something to prove? How do you know they're not faking it? How do you know they understand what readings they're actually seeing? How do you know their meters are simply displaying the standard 60Hz EM field that exists around all house wiring?
Are all the advocates from different places across the continent against smart meters faking it? Do they all have nothing better to do, and only wanted to prove something? Are they all as ignorant as how you are trying so hard to portray them as? When the sample size becomes large enough, I think it is illogical to simply brush them off the way you have been trying to here.
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Old 07-20-2013, 11:42 PM   #184
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Once again, your standard house wiring has an EM field around it. Motors do. Lights do. TVs, tuners, radios, and wireless devices of all types are surrounded by them. All have different frequencies, different harmonics, behave differently around various types of metals and enclosures... and all will show up on a broadband meter. It doesn't prove anything except that something is using electricity in the vicinity.
I think you've probably hit the nail on the head. If Hydro is going to use their meters at every household, apartment,etc., they have to be certain that their meter is not going to be affected by all the electrical devices that we may have in our homes. They will have to use a non standard frequency and that's where it may cause problems for some people. A flash at that non standard frequency may set off the problems. Just like flashing lights will cause some people to have epilepsy seizures and doesn't bother the majority of people.

Maybe the people that received the bigger than normal bills had something electrical that interfered with the smart meters, and Hydro would swear up and down that nothing was wrong with their meters.
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Old 07-20-2013, 11:44 PM   #185
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Are all the advocates from different places across the continent against smart meters faking it? Do they all have nothing better to do, and only wanted to prove something? Are they all as ignorant as how you are trying so hard to portray them as? When the sample size becomes large enough, I think it is illogical to simply brush them off the way you have been trying to here.
In fact those people actually have nothing better to do.
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Old 07-21-2013, 02:42 AM   #186
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Are all the advocates from different places across the continent against smart meters faking it?
Are all the people who see Bigfoot faking it?
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Old 07-21-2013, 02:45 AM   #187
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Traum the general public get their information from the media and the system overall which sees people as cattle and treats it as a commodity, not as human beings. You have to watch out for yourself and ignore the onslaught of sheep that regurgitate the main stream deception.

Definition of Sheep: 1. A group of people who lack the capacity for careful consideration, imagination, or individual thought, who thusly go with group and allow god awful trends and events to unfold and make us all miserable.
The best part is you take everything you get from your conspiracy theorist websites and forums to be fact and call everybody else sheep. You're no different you just get your information from another source, the guys with the tinfoil hats. Seems legit.
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Old 07-21-2013, 03:25 AM   #188
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i hope bc hydro charges 5k or more to the idiots that don't want these things installed on their houses. maybe that way it will bring down my hydro bill.
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Old 07-21-2013, 07:15 AM   #189
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Graeme,

When you are not the one suffering from these ill effects, it is easy for you to say what you've said above. But if you are willing to put yourself into some of these people's shoes, perhaps you could understand this a little better.

I happen to be one of these people that do not respond well to the hydro smart meter, and for the longest time, I didn't know it was the smart meter making me feel sick. What happens in my case is, the power meter at my house is located directly on the opposite side of my computer room's wall. For at least 7 or 8 years, I have regularly spend huge amounts of time in my computer room studying for school, working and playing on my computer, etc. without any issues.

Then BC Hydro started implementing the smart meter program, and a smart meter was installed at my house, replacing the old but perfectly functional analog meter that we had. At first, I was completely oblivious to any health effects these smart meters and the EMF might be causing, so I continued my regular routine in my computer room. But soon after the smart meter installation, I started noticing that I was getting chest pains and feeling nauseated, and I had no idea why. The chest pains and nausea continued for another week or two, and gradually I started noticing that the chest pains and nausea would come when I spent time in the computer room. I can probably withstand a good 15 minutes or so before the chest pains come. By the half hour mark, the nausea would make it bad enough that I had to leave the room. This comes directly from my first hand personal experience, and has been repeatedly proven using myself as the test subject.

It took another few weeks before I finally clued in on how the smart meter and its EMF emissions might have been the cause of me feeling sick. A lot of googling and YouTube watching later, I pasted up 2 layers worth of aluminum foil along the entire wall where the smart meter sits (on the opposite side). And what do you know? I don't feel sick in my own computer room anymore.

You can say all of this first hand experience of mine is all in my head. But I will simply tell you otherwise. I am perfectly fine with whatever radio signals and EMFs routers, cel phones, microwave ovens pumps out. But with this smart meter business, it is making me feel sick. People have different bodies that respond differently to external factors. Just because you don't get sick from it doesn't mean others won't.
FYI, using aluminum foil as a shield is ineffective unless it's actually grounded. Using two ungrounded, uninsulated sheets of aluminum is also as effective at blocking EM waves as using a loaf of bread.
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Old 07-21-2013, 07:22 AM   #190
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I think you've probably hit the nail on the head. If Hydro is going to use their meters at every household, apartment,etc., they have to be certain that their meter is not going to be affected by all the electrical devices that we may have in our homes. They will have to use a non standard frequency and that's where it may cause problems for some people. A flash at that non standard frequency may set off the problems. Just like flashing lights will cause some people to have epilepsy seizures and doesn't bother the majority of people.

Maybe the people that received the bigger than normal bills had something electrical that interfered with the smart meters, and Hydro would swear up and down that nothing was wrong with their meters.
Now you're REALLY reaching.
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Old 07-21-2013, 07:23 AM   #191
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FYI, using aluminum foil as a shield is ineffective unless it's actually grounded. Using two ungrounded, uninsulated sheets of aluminum is also as effective at blocking EM waves as using a loaf of bread.
But of course, once you've convinced yourself of what you think is happening, you won't believe anything you're told to the contrary, even by people who have an understanding of how these things work...
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Old 07-21-2013, 07:40 AM   #192
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Traum the general public get their information from the media and the system overall which sees people as cattle and treats it as a commodity, not as human beings. You have to watch out for yourself and ignore the onslaught of sheep that regurgitate the main stream deception.

Definition of Sheep: 1. A group of people who lack the capacity for careful consideration, imagination, or individual thought, who thusly go with group and allow god awful trends and events to unfold and make us all miserable.
How about getting information from people we know who actually work in those fields and do extensive tests on things like EMFs for a living? I trust the word of those people than those random conspiracy websites you love to quote.
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Old 07-21-2013, 02:53 PM   #193
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Only a video, like the kind I posted, is what gets people to understand, (and that was no home documentary either) not some scientific paper which would show my findings... little do sheep understand is that the government will flood false research to counter truth. These are the same people that wont bat an eye when they find out the BBC reported building 7 collapse 10 minutes before it actually happened.
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Old 07-21-2013, 07:39 PM   #194
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Now you're REALLY reaching.
I'm just pushing the envelope. You don't think Hydro would use the same frequency as your wifi or cell phone, would you? They haven't given out any info about frequencies. Hydro may know that it will only affect a few people and to keep on denying it will get more people believing them because they themselves are not affected.

I'm not going so far as to say Traum's problem is psychological, like some of you have, but I'm giving him the benefit of a doubt that there is something happening.
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Old 07-21-2013, 08:37 PM   #195
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I'm just pushing the envelope. You don't think Hydro would use the same frequency as your wifi or cell phone, would you? They haven't given out any info about frequencies. Hydro may know that it will only affect a few people and to keep on denying it will get more people believing them because they themselves are not affected.

I'm not going so far as to say Traum's problem is psychological, like some of you have, but I'm giving him the benefit of a doubt that there is something happening.
Counterpoint: People use their cellphones next to each other constantly. Ever been on a bus? At University? In a mall?


Being able to use your device != some crazy conspiratorial frequency.
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Old 07-21-2013, 09:47 PM   #196
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Are all the advocates from different places across the continent against smart meters faking it? Do they all have nothing better to do, and only wanted to prove something? Are they all as ignorant as how you are trying so hard to portray them as? When the sample size becomes large enough, I think it is illogical to simply brush them off the way you have been trying to here.
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In fact those people actually have nothing better to do.
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This is the thing: most of these people are SO convinced that someone is out to get them, making these kinds of videos becomes almost a mission in life; they literally do have nothing better to do (from their perspective of "better").
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Old 07-21-2013, 09:48 PM   #197
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Counterpoint: People use their cellphones next to each other constantly. Ever been on a bus? At University? In a mall?


Being able to use your device != some crazy conspiratorial frequency.

Cellphones are on different frequencies than what Hydro is using.

I'm not trying to attack anyone for their beliefs but give them the benefit of a doubt. If someone believes that they have a problem, I'm willing to listen but definitely won't call them a liar or tell them to visit a psychiatrist.
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Old 07-21-2013, 09:55 PM   #198
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I'm just pushing the envelope. You don't think Hydro would use the same frequency as your wifi or cell phone, would you?
Of course not. The meters would use a frequency allocated to the manufacturer by the appropriate regulatory bodies (FCC/CRTC) - I doubt BC Hydro has any say in what frequency is used.

The fact remains, the EM spectrum is extremely crowded, and every different technology must fit within it's narrow slot in that spectrum. IF, for example, these use actual 802.11a/b/g/n WiFi, then they would HAVE to operate within the same spectrum as all other WiFi devices, or very close to it. It would be virtually impossible that that frequency would cause large numbers of people issues, when no other WiFi signals seem to; the person's sensitivity would have to be to a band so narrow, it's ridiculous.

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They haven't given out any info about frequencies.
Oh of course not; that would drive the privacy lot right over the edge.

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I'm not going so far as to say Traum's problem is psychological, like some of you have, but I'm giving him the benefit of a doubt that there is something happening.
I don't doubt there's "something" happening, I just don't believe it has anything to do with the smart meter (at least nothing causational).
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Old 07-22-2013, 08:40 AM   #199
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I'm just pushing the envelope. You don't think Hydro would use the same frequency as your wifi or cell phone, would you? They haven't given out any info about frequencies. Hydro may know that it will only affect a few people and to keep on denying it will get more people believing them because they themselves are not affected.

I'm not going so far as to say Traum's problem is psychological, like some of you have, but I'm giving him the benefit of a doubt that there is something happening.
Smart Meters run between 902 MHz and 928 MHz. While BC Hydro may not reveal the exact frequency their machines run on, it's not that difficult to find out.

The UHF band runs between 300 MHz and 3 GHz. While I wont refute the theory that certain people may feel something through specific frequencies, it just seems odd that this very specific range is causing all these issues. The 900 MHz range has been in use by both amateurs (ham radios) and in ISM equipment for decades. I used to have an old cordless phones that also made use of this range.
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Old 07-22-2013, 01:26 PM   #200
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Now we have someone complaining about the free Wifi on BC ferries causing problems and how they need a Wifi free zone.

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While debate rages on over the impacts of wireless technologies on human health, those who claim a hypersensitivity to electromagnetism have called on B.C. Ferries to provide options to limit their exposure.

People worried that wireless technologies may have a negative impact on their health achieved a small victory last week when B.C. Hydro announced modified smart meters would be available at a cost.

The effect of wireless technologies, like Wi-Fi routers and cell phones, on human health has become a contentious topic in recent years. Many in the scientific and medical communities have countered the assault on wireless with stiff resistance. Those who say they suffer call it a disability.

Seemingly routine tasks can be a challenge for Louise Campbell of Nanoose Bay, who says her sensitivity to wireless devices can make a ferry ride to the mainland a nightmare.

"For me, my day is thinking about how long I can spend in the mall, because there's Wi-Fi in the mall. If I'm going to a friend's house, I have to ask them to turn the Wi-Fi off," she said.

Campbell claims her condition causes her to become lightheaded when exposed to wireless devices.

A two-hour trip into the city can leave her fatigued for the rest of the day. Campbell avoids restaurants, coffee shops, movie theatres and anywhere she expects exposure.

The situation impelled Campbell to call on B.C. Ferries to provide a way to limit exposure to the ship's wireless technology while on voyages to the Mainland.

She is not the first to make the request, said B.C. Ferries spokeswoman Deborah Marshall. Marshall advised people like Campbell to reach out to their customer care department.

"There are some areas on the ship that the signals are quite weak. .. for example, the car decks," she said.

Christel Martin, the Nanaimo representative for Citizens for Safe Technology, said more support is needed for people with the disability.

"There has to be a Wi-Fi free zone," she said. "We're asking for equal rights, like any disabled person."

Health Canada maintains that "there is no convincing scientific evidence that exposure to lowlevel radiofrequency (RF) energy from Wi-Fi causes adverse health effects in humans."

Nevertheless, the debate will continue in the coming years as public Wi-Fi become more common and the world around us grows increasingly wireless.

The B.C. Centre for Disease Control capped off a two-year project in March, 2013 with the release of their Radiofrequency toolkit for environmental health practitioners.

The 371-page report broke down the myriad types of wireless frequencies used in Canada, the research on their effects and methods to avoid exposure.

"We realize that there will continue to be divergent views on the effects of RF. And we hope that scientists from across Canada can join us in contributing their knowledge and understanding to future integrative work in this enormous field," wrote Dr. Tom Kosatsky, the BCCDC's director of environmental health services.
- See more at: Wi-Fi sensitivity solution sought on ferries - News - Nanaimo Daily News
Wait till Nanaimo gets free Wifi from show thru out the city. Guess she will have to stay out of Nanaimo.
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