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Old 09-17-2012, 02:15 AM   #51
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Yes what the Japanese did was horrible during WWII, but that was also during a war era under a different mindset and under a different government rule. If I'm not mistaken, the Japanese government has begun to apologize for their actions during WWII.

For me manufacturing fake junk is far worse, but hey you know lifes cheap. Cut some corners to save a buck even if it means dieing when ingesting it.

In the end the government needs to go, plain and simple. They don't give a crap about it's own people.
Japan teaches revisionist history and has even commemorated the war criminals. For some it's revolting to honor the war criminals, but their Shinto religion really dictates they respect the spirits of the deceased.
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Old 09-17-2012, 02:39 AM   #52
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i dont have a problem with them respecting their deceased soldiers; after all they were following orders and fighting for their country so they're japanese war heroes

its just like how the us respects/remembers their soldiers even though they've raped/murdered and im not speaking about recent middle east wars but all of them korean, vietnam, ww2

and the "following orders" line you may say is a cop out but every military uses that line it would be hypocritical to say its okay for us to say that but not for them

as for revisionist histories everyone does that as well (especially china recently just look at the HK protests)
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Old 09-17-2012, 02:42 AM   #53
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i dont have a problem with them respecting their deceased soldiers; after all they were following orders and fighting for their country so they're japanese war heroes

its just like how the us respects/remembers their soldiers even though they've raped/murdered and im not speaking about recent middle east wars but all of them korean, vietnam, ww2

and the "following orders" line you may say is a cop out but every military uses that line it would be hypocritical to say its okay for us to say that but not for them

as for revisionist histories everyone does that as well
How about Nazi's? I am not familiar if only those who handed out orders got punished, or basically every Nazi soldier got punished. Care to enlighten me?
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Old 09-17-2012, 02:46 AM   #54
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iirc every Nazi got punished but not every german soldier was considered a nazi; the germans used the "following orders" line too but America wasn't happy with it even though they ended up using the same line themselves


edit yeah here http://www.wisegeek.com/were-there-n...rs-in-wwii.htm
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Old 09-17-2012, 02:52 AM   #55
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Thanks for the info.

Then do you think it's fair that Japan's Generals and those who knew and ordered those experiments should be punished accordingly? I mean America probably felt bad after dropping two atomic bombs at them, but is that justification for not punishing them for the atrocities they did? Do you think it would've been fair if Nazis were let off the hook if they were the one receiving the atomic bomb?
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Old 09-17-2012, 03:11 AM   #56
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The commanding officers were executed (those involved with nanking) only a prince was able to escape through a deal with the Allies

google Nanjing War Crimes Tribunal



edit: in regards to the experimentations the Americans granted the top military brass immunity if they shared their research results (with the US only)

however many doctors/nurses were prosecuted

the Soviet union on the other hand tried many high ranking officials and sentenced those tried to soviet labour camps

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Old 09-17-2012, 03:17 AM   #57
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Yes what the Japanese did was horrible during WWII, but that was also during a war era under a different mindset and under a different government rule. If I'm not mistaken, the Japanese government has begun to apologize for their actions during WWII.

For me manufacturing fake junk is far worse, but hey you know lifes cheap. Cut some corners to save a buck even if it means dieing when ingesting it.

In the end the government needs to go, plain and simple. They don't give a crap about it's own people.
Some of the members of the current ruling political party in Japan were war veterans from World War II. Their mindset hasn't changed much at all. In their eyes, the Japanese race is still a superior race compared to all, and their Japanese Self-Defense Force is actually a military force that is trained to be on the offense.
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Old 09-17-2012, 03:39 AM   #58
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The commanding officers were executed (those involved with nanking) only a prince was able to escape through a deal with the Allies

google Nanjing War Crimes Tribunal



edit: in regards to the experimentations the Americans granted the top military brass immunity if they shared their research results (with the US only)

however many doctors/nurses were prosecuted

the Soviet union on the other hand tried many high ranking officials and sentenced those tried to soviet labour camps
The generals who ran unit 731 were pardoned of their crimes because they shared "invaluable" information with the US( as you said). In my opinion, this is in no way an acceptable bargain. You cannot conduct inhumane experiments and get away scot-free just because you shared your experiment data with the prosecutor. Do you think this is justification for what they did? Do you think Japan should recognize the inhumane acts they did and apologize not only to China, but to the world?
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Old 09-17-2012, 03:58 AM   #59
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Mr.Chin said that all Chinese people are hateful and hold grudges. This in itself is an ignorant comment. First of all, i don't think the Chinese would be so angry if Japan apologized for what they did to China during WWII. If you take a look at unit 731, you will understand why China doesn't like Japan. Unlike Germany, Japan is being a bitch, so they pretend it didn't happen (some other member pointed this out already), so no shit they are pissed off at Japan. You may say that it was 50-60 years ago, but in my opinion, if there is anyone that witnessed the atrocities, then it is not too long. I do not hate Japan, and in fact, i think Japan is a wonderful country right now. When i visited Tokyo, everyone was nice and respectful. However, i can understand the hate for Japan because not only did the government did not apologize, but they wiped history off the textbook. The western world doesn't really care because Japan is their bitch, and they don't want to get into the mess. If you cannot understand the situation, imagine your neighbor breaking into your house, raped your mom, experimented with your sister, made your dad suicide or else they will kill your whole family. Then say after all that, they get slapped on the wrist for their actions and they did not apologize to you. Many years later, they still haven't apologized and it seems like they even forgot about what they did. Would that piss you off?
What I meant by 100% chinese people is chinese that are strictly from China, born in China, and raised in a pure chinese culture.

And with what happened in Nanjing proves that one of my point is true. Chinese like to hold grudges, to the very end. It's been 70 years now since it had happened. If a country has to apologize for their wrongdoings in a time of war, then there is a lot of apologizing to do for the whole world. I repeat, in a time of war.

Let's not bring up 70 years history and tie it with what is happening now in China.

The chinese people now are just being stupid. They are more about pride and dignity is overcoming them.

A perfect example to show what I mean would be a chinese dude finds a gun on the ground. It's made by the Japanese. But it is his only survival against another Japanese wielding the gun. He refuse to use it and fight the Japanese with his barehands.

That is how much dignity and pride these chinese have right now. Immature.
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Old 09-17-2012, 04:02 AM   #60
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the soviets sent a general to their labour camps

in war a lot of dirt bags get away scot free its not right but it happens (hell id like to see Bush and Cheney et al head to world court); those japanese generals you mention are likely long since dead though


as for apologies Japan has issued many many apologies but they're always criticized as being "not good enough" List of war apology statements issued by Japan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Japan was going to pay reparations to China as well but Mao waived them Joint Communiqué of the Government of Japan and the Government of the People's Republic of China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


but again with China using anti japanese sentiments as a distraction i imagine no amount of apologies and reparations would ever be "good enough" anyways
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Old 09-17-2012, 04:08 AM   #61
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I did hear about the Japanese trying to apologize as well.

But these are history from a long time ago and they're just stories to us. What matters now is what is happening in front of our eyes.

I am and never was a believer to stories or history. When they are past down generations, they are interpreted the wrong way making one side seem like the most innocent and the other the most horrific human being in the world.

This guy I use to know like to tell China's history and every time he gets so tense and vigor it's like some part of his stories are too hard to believe.

What happened in Nanjing should be looked as for the people that were involved. Don't judge a whole country or race just because of history on war.
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Old 09-17-2012, 05:56 AM   #62
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That's why it's embarrassing to even be chinese. How can you have any pride in your country when you make counterfeit trash, deadly milk, fake eggs, fake oranges?
just cuz u see this stuff on the internet & expect china to be exactly like that

truth is japan never ADMITTED they were wrong period, they admitted that US defeated cuz of the A-bomb

im not against anything or anyone, my grandfather was in the army to fight the japanese so when i was little i heard quite a bit of stories during those times

hes believed that man must move on & times will change, this is why he was find with japanese ppl that were not from the army during that time
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Old 09-17-2012, 07:27 AM   #63
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truth is japan never ADMITTED they were wrong period, they admitted that US defeated cuz of the A-bomb
you should read through this
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as for apologies Japan has issued many many apologies but they're always criticized as being "not good enough" List of war apology statements issued by Japan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
and that's just what wiki collected...

a nation wouldn't be willing to pay reparations unless they agree that they're in the wrong especially a nation like japan where 'face' is probably more important than in china
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Old 09-17-2012, 08:00 AM   #64
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i seem to notice that china likes to kill their own ppl rather than cooperate and united, just look at the different dynasties than china has been throughout history

even modern china now with scandals of fake this and counterfeit than, just appalling the tainted milk scandal that kill so many chinese children

so i think this anti-japanese thing for the common citizen is about history but for gov't or big chinese corps, it is literally a scapegoat to blame the japanese but it is more like a marketing campaign to stop buying japanese products and buy chinese only
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Old 09-17-2012, 10:54 AM   #65
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Yes what the Japanese did was horrible during WWII, but that was also during a war era under a different mindset and under a different government rule. If I'm not mistaken, the Japanese government has begun to apologize for their actions during WWII.

For me manufacturing fake junk is far worse, but hey you know lifes cheap. Cut some corners to save a buck even if it means dieing when ingesting it.

In the end the government needs to go, plain and simple. They don't give a crap about it's own people.
Are you serious? that is your logic? somehow to you fake stuff is considered to be more morally wrong than committing murder. An overwhelming majority of people would disagree with you that it isn't even a moot point.

I also believe that the Japanese government has not apologized to a sufficient level given the gravity and seriousness of the crimes. I was told that they do not even talk about what they did in their history books (they may have a small section but they totally downplay it or even revise what has happened) so their students have no "accurate" picture. And what to you is deemed to be an "apology"? A small snippet? Many Koreans also feel the same way that they have not received an adequate apology.
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Old 09-17-2012, 12:14 PM   #66
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What I meant by 100% chinese people is chinese that are strictly from China, born in China, and raised in a pure chinese culture.

And with what happened in Nanjing proves that one of my point is true. Chinese like to hold grudges, to the very end. It's been 70 years now since it had happened. If a country has to apologize for their wrongdoings in a time of war, then there is a lot of apologizing to do for the whole world. I repeat, in a time of war.

Let's not bring up 70 years history and tie it with what is happening now in China.

The chinese people now are just being stupid. They are more about pride and dignity is overcoming them.

A perfect example to show what I mean would be a chinese dude finds a gun on the ground. It's made by the Japanese. But it is his only survival against another Japanese wielding the gun. He refuse to use it and fight the Japanese with his barehands.

That is how much dignity and pride these chinese have right now. Immature.
I understand where you are coming from. But do you realize that there are still survivors that witness or was part of the whole incident? Some other poster mentioned that there is still Japanese war generals in the current party too. Now imagine you were a child during the massacre, and you see your family being slaughtered right before your eyes. It would be hard for them to forgive when they keep relapsing over the events and how they keep hearing that Japan would not apologize and those who are responsible are not being punished. Then when they have children's themselves, they past down these stories and tell their kids that Japanese people are horrible because of what happened. Just like religion, this has been fed to them.

Many Chinese feel suppressed and not respected by the western world for over a decade, I feel like this is a response because they now have the economic power and military power to settle scores.

Also, yes Chinese people have been fighting themselves ever since the beginning. We like to keep to ourselves because we believe that if every one follows this, then harmony would exist. Then you bring in a foreign power that is trying to conquer you, they will do everything to fight back just like any country.

Pride and dignity is what is built into our culture. "face" has always been important in our culture. You cannot chastise Chinese people because they value different things than you. Sure, it may be childish for them to be so hateful and as you said, hold grudges. But you seem to forget that Japan is also childish because they refuse to officially apologize because they think they didn't do anything wrong.

With that said, I do agree with you that they are taking the hating a bit too far. But I guess this is what rioter's mentality will do to you
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Old 09-17-2012, 12:55 PM   #67
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What I meant by 100% chinese people is chinese that are strictly from China, born in China, and raised in a pure chinese culture.

And with what happened in Nanjing proves that one of my point is true. Chinese like to hold grudges, to the very end. It's been 70 years now since it had happened. If a country has to apologize for their wrongdoings in a time of war, then there is a lot of apologizing to do for the whole world. I repeat, in a time of war.

Let's not bring up 70 years history and tie it with what is happening now in China.

The chinese people now are just being stupid. They are more about pride and dignity is overcoming them.

A perfect example to show what I mean would be a chinese dude finds a gun on the ground. It's made by the Japanese. But it is his only survival against another Japanese wielding the gun. He refuse to use it and fight the Japanese with his barehands.

That is how much dignity and pride these chinese have right now. Immature.
No offense, but that is a shitty example. Have you even studied Chinese history? Are you even Chinese or just an outsider looking in? People without education and knowledge on this situation should not be able to make such bold claims as you do because it diminishes what the victims had to go through. Are you even aware of the extent of what the Japanese did? 70 years is not a long time ago.

-Getting family members to rape one another
-Use of comfort women
-Holding contest between soldiers to kill the most people, which was published in the newspaper
-Chemical and biological weapons testing
-Raping pregnant women and killing them.
-Shoving bayonets up woman's genitals
-Extreme use of torture

The list goes on and on. Countries do go to war, but do they engage in acts of this caliber and on this scale, especially against unarmed civilians? I would classify these more as crimes against humanity. If Japan was on the scale of brutality as Germany, why do we not have the same kinds feelings of hostility towards Germans? one has taken responsibility and allowed the world to move forward.


The December 13, 1937 article in the Tokyo Nichi Nichi Shimbun's Contest to kill 100 people using a sword series. Mukai (left) and Noda (right)
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Old 09-17-2012, 12:57 PM   #68
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kinda foolish of China and korea to expect apology for something that happened decades ago...


grow the fuck up

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Old 09-17-2012, 01:27 PM   #69
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Gues pleast stay on topic.... we are not here for histroy lessons.........
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Old 09-17-2012, 01:29 PM   #70
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kinda foolish of China and korea to expect apology for something that happened decades ago...


grow the fuck up
Listen tool, would you tell a Jew who lived through the holocaust in Germany to "Grow the fuck up?"

There are many many people alive who suffered through this, we are not even a generation removed from it.
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Old 09-17-2012, 01:33 PM   #71
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Regarding the apology, it's a PR stint and countries have to do it. Look at the Jews being so good at making sure that everyone remembers what they have gone through.

The North American natives would love to do it too, except they have no resources.

Looking at the action, it appears there is a little riot fire in every youth regardless if you're fighting over tuition, the environment, a hockey game or over national boundaries.

Instead of immediately jumping to judge who is right and wrong, it's more interesting to learn to understand the facts.
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Old 09-17-2012, 01:48 PM   #72
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kinda foolish of China and korea to expect apology for something that happened decades ago...


grow the fuck up
yet Canada owned up and apologized for the Head Tax?

Like seriously all the Japanese need to do is to publish and read out an apology in public, and this issue will fade out. Obviously this won't happen because:

1) Any Japanese leader that does this will be treated as a traitor
2) 60 years too late, but better than never

You also need to remember this, the Chinese Communist Party is now mainly run by the Princelings, the children of the party elders or other highly respected individuals that most likely fought against the Japanese.
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Old 09-17-2012, 03:07 PM   #73
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kinda foolish of China and korea to expect apology for something that happened decades ago...


grow the fuck up
So if I kill someone and 30 years later I tell people I did it should I not be held releasable?
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Old 09-17-2012, 03:09 PM   #74
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Listen tool, would you tell a Jew who lived through the holocaust in Germany to "Grow the fuck up?"

There are many many people alive who suffered through this, we are not even a generation removed from it.
are you saying there is a strong association with user ID and comments made by user?

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Old 09-17-2012, 03:32 PM   #75
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So if I kill someone and 30 years later I tell people I did it should I not be held releasable?
r u seriously using that as a rebuttle?

when japan got bombed twice, do u think they asked US for apology? (if u know ur history,, japan was already done way before they got bombed.)

british killed thousands of people in india/pakistan ,,do u think India is going after England asking for an apology?

and same goes for US, using agent orange.. guess Vietnam should ask US "u say sorry now"
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