Anti-Japanese Demonstrations Spreading Across China

[observer]

Originally Posted by Hehe

The thing about US and China is that people in US have choices. Whether they are given or self-motivated, there are choices.

In US, any and all event would be questioned. Even when proven to the point that's impossible to say otherwise, people who don't want to believe can come up with some conspiracy theory and believe in that. Nothing wrong with it.

Chinese can only think in ways the CCP allows them to. In theory, Chinese could question anything but the CCP. But realistically, CCP educated the Chinese society to not question. The majority of population takes every "truth" as given.

CCP wanted Chinese to think Japanese are bad people and it allows actions that support such idea. They called it "reasonable."

Traditionally, Chinese are great people: Hard working, smart, and usually have great discipline toward many different aspect in life. Nevertheless, CCP fucked it up by brainwashing them.

I wish the situation is so black and white. In my humble opinion, the reality is that most Americans have no absolutely idea what and how the typical Chinese thinks.

Every story we read on our trusted CNN should be balanced by a different view from Al Jazeera and CCTV. The US opened to honest questioning? Look at Wikileaks.

The most successful form of brainwashing is the model where the brainwashed don't even realize they have been brainwashed.

[CharlesInCharge]

I only read a few pages in this thread and will just interject this... I dont think anyone understands that Japan is an occupied country and the US parades its nukes over there on China's door step.
I applaud the Chinese protesters for making international headlines... the hegemonic imperial powers are coming to an end.

[guava]

[El Bastardo]

Could you translate.. for those of us living in Canada?

[El Bastardo]

Originally Posted by CharlesInCharge

I applaud the Chinese protesters for making international headlines... the hegemonic imperial powers are coming to an end.

China can't bully its own citizens, so its trying to flex it's muscle on us.

China envoy warns Canada against politicizing Nexen deal | Reuters

[tool001]

^ china , high on its economic and military might has been pissing alot of countries lately, specially in its own neighborhood, Vietnam, Philippines , india and now japan.

US has already started courting india to keep china in check and also as this situation develops , it is pushing Japan closer to india, along with rest of south east asian nations.

US think tank recently advised india to start preparing for a war with China. (then again, with economies so inter dependent on one another nations, that seems less likely)

however China needs to come down from its high horse.

[StylinRed]

Originally Posted by El Bastardo

Could you translate.. for those of us living in Canada?

its really stupid

hu is saying "hey big bro the japs are buying our contested islands like wtf?! what now boss should we strike back know what am saying!"

maos "like wake me the fuck up biatch and lets get this thing on"



(i made it a lot more interesting)

[Hurricane]

Soul Searching in China Over Man Beaten Senseless by Anti-Japanese Protestors - China Real Time Report - WSJ

I guess this is when the tangible differences between a first and third world country start to emerge.

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by CharlesInCharge

I only read a few pages in this thread and will just interject this... I dont think anyone understands that Japan is an occupied country and the US parades its nukes over there on China's door step.
I applaud the Chinese protesters for making international headlines... the hegemonic imperial powers are coming to an end.

Google ICBM.

[CharlesInCharge]

What if conflict breaks out between the Chinese and Japanese fish and military boats... how do you take down a Japanese allied enemy submarine armed with nukes? blow it up and have radiation taint half of China?

[StylinRed]

if all hell breaks loose and china does decide to attack japan the usa would just back off

just like in syria; russia sent its navy to protect it and the usa backed off

Originally Posted by El Bastardo

China can't bully its own citizens, so its trying to flex it's muscle on us.

China envoy warns Canada against politicizing Nexen deal | Reuters

I hate the idea of this deal so much and after these comments i just hate it even more

fuck harper

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by StylinRed

if all hell breaks loose and china does decide to attack japan the usa would just back off

just like in syria; russia sent its navy to protect it and the usa backed off




I hate the idea of this deal so much and after these comments i just hate it even more

fuck harper

And Syria and Japan have the same political standing in the US? Don't think so. If China invaded Japan it would be a huge economical loss for the US and many other countries.

[StylinRed]

Originally Posted by Manic!

And Syria and Japan have the same political standing in the US? Don't think so. If China invaded Japan it would be a huge economical loss for the US and many other countries.

and that's why it wouldn't lead to war

[tool001]

Originally Posted by StylinRed

if all hell breaks loose and china does decide to attack japan the usa would just back off

just like in syria; russia sent its navy to protect it and the usa backed off




I hate the idea of this deal so much and after these comments i just hate it even more

fuck harper

u know that US-Japan has a treaty that in case of war US will back japan? thus US bases in japan.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_...ates_and_Japan
Syria is not a comparison

and china will not attack japan. it will be a stupid move on its part>

[StylinRed]

of course but when it comes down to it that doesn't really mean anything that's the world of politics its not like america has shown it cares about international obligations and rules... unless of course it suits them

interestingly enough there's a Forbes article out today considering this topic exactly

Is the U.S. Committed to Defend the Senkakus? Text of Article 5 of the U.S.-Japan Treaty - Forbes



syria is a perfectly good example; anyway this is going a little further than i expected when humouring charlesincharge...

[highfive]

China would not fight any war that would lead to embargoes from first world nations.

People inside the country would starve once food is harder to come by. That would lead to civil unrest.

It would be stupid of the Chinese government to start something like invading Japan.

[Hurricane]

Originally Posted by StylinRed

if all hell breaks loose and china does decide to attack japan the usa would just back off

just like in syria; russia sent its navy to protect it and the usa backed off

Your contributions to this thread have been pretty reasonable up until here.

WTF are you even talking about?? First of all - the whole situations are similar ONLY in the respect that there is some kind of military action involved. I could reference Napoleons first campaign against Italy as some benchmark to how we should expect this situation to unfold, and it would be less stupid than yours.

IF China attacked Japan, China would be attacking America.

There are about 40,000 US Military personnel in Japan (second in the world), bases all over the country, and Japan's Military spending has been strictly limited to less than 1% of GDP by the US, in exchange for a well documented agreement to protect Japan against any foreign adversaries.

Unless you think the 7th fleet (50-60 ships, 350 aircraft, 60,000 people), the Marine Expeditionary Force, and 150-plus USAF fighter jets would all just flee Japan and find a new home elsewhere.



You can bet there have been a lot of closed door discussions about how this situation is unfolding, and the US has been closely involved every step of the way.

Realistically, I think Canada should be more worried about not being defended by the US if someone were to attack. At least they didn't force us to keep our military spending to an absolute minimum.

[mr_chin]

How did anti japanese protesters lead to japan vs china war.

There is not going to be a war, period. Not over something like this.

The citizen of china will continue their grudge and hatred against the japanese but it won't stop them from settling into diaoyu island. The vandalism will gradually decrease to minimal amount.

People will move on and continue on with their life. It's going to be like vancouver, where there are still some rebels walking around, but you don't know who.

[rsx]

It wouldn't be prudent for either Country to fuck each other up over the islands, despite the supposed resources it surrounds.

The more probable conflict would be Iran/Israel. Personally, I think Iran's going to get a Nuke and no one's going to do shit all about it. Just based on history: NKorea, China (Maoist). But who really knows what's going to happen.

[StylinRed]

Originally Posted by Hurricane

Your contributions to this thread have been pretty reasonable up until here.

WTF are you even talking about?? First of all - the whole situations are similar ONLY in the respect that there is some kind of military action involved. I could reference Napoleons first campaign against Italy as some benchmark to how we should expect this situation to unfold, and it would be less stupid than yours.

IF China attacked Japan, China would be attacking America.

There are about 40,000 US Military personnel in Japan (second in the world), bases all over the country, and Japan's Military spending has been strictly limited to less than 1% of GDP by the US, in exchange for a well documented agreement to protect Japan against any foreign adversaries.

Unless you think the 7th fleet (50-60 ships, 350 aircraft, 60,000 people), the Marine Expeditionary Force, and 150-plus USAF fighter jets would all just flee Japan and find a new home elsewhere.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._Japan.svg.png

You can bet there have been a lot of closed door discussions about how this situation is unfolding, and the US has been closely involved every step of the way.

which is why an attack would likely never happen but again we're humouring charlesincharge here on if China were to attack...; i imagine china would have a long drawn out plan, purely speculative of course but i could see it play out something like so

with china first trying to become the dominant navy presence (as its currently in the process of doing)

and backroom wheeling and dealing with the usa

the US would be left with the options of trying to build up its military presence over there or begin to scale back; after all their economies are headed in opposite directions it'll be seen as being fiscally responsible by non-nutjob americans to scale back

and finally the USA would acquiesce to Japans long drawn out requests for the US military to leave its shores japan wants us military to leave - Google Search

all the while publicly it would seem like relations are good even between china/japan

and then we'll start seeing china apply more pressure for its desires over the islands etc

and then attack if they must

(again purely hypothetical i dont actually believe this will happen but i could see it play out like that if we were to imagine the end game being an attack)

Realistically, I think Canada should be more worried about not being defended by the US if someone were to attack. At least they didn't force us to keep our military spending to an absolute minimum.

doubt it the US depends on our resources and $$ too much moreso than it does any other country; hell we should be worried about getting attacked by the US

[Hehe]

It's not in the US interest to withdraw or even reduce its presence in Japan and Asia as a whole.

The 7th Fleet (arguably the most badass marine fleet men ever built) is permanently stationed in Pacific region for this very purpose, to maintain a dominant presence in Asia.

You can bet your ass (mine included) that US would respond if China happens to raise a war, even for a such a small territory. The whole idea of maintaining Japan, alone with all the arm trade to Taiwan, is basically the US shield for Pacific Ocean. And they are not willing to lose it no matter how much it costs.

And to be honest, China's marine and airforce is still many many decades behind US.

If the full 7th Fleet goes into action, China would mostly likely retreat as they simply do not have the military power to go up against it. The only remote chance that China can go up against 7th Fleet is if it gains support from Russia and Putin is willing to send out the entire Black Sea fleet.

Also, US has enough resource and money to go to war (without being dependent to anyone else). Not so much for any other countries in the world.

[Mr.HappySilp]

If there is a war between Japan and China. US would step in for sure. Is for military statergy. USA needs to have a ground in ASIA and Japan is the key for that. If USA lose Japan they pretty much lost thier influence, military advantages in Asia.

Beside if there is a war it might not be nescssary bad for the USA. Espeically with the election days soon it will be intreseting how things turn out. Also the USA can use this to fix their economy.

[Hurricane]

Originally Posted by StylinRed

and finally the USA would acquiesce to Japans long drawn out requests for the US military to leave its shores japan wants us military to leave - Google Search

Japan has never requested the US military leave it's shores.

The usual public opinion polls in Japan, suggest about 70% of the people support the military presence. Some would like it reduced, and even gone (especially in Okinawa where soldiers raping some teens and crashing planes have really soured the public perception naturally).

That said, mainland Japan doesn't really care what Okinawan's think. It's the poorest part of Japan, and they don't exactly do a lot for Tokyo's economy - where the decisions are made.

But overall, and especially with the recent happenings in China, I think most experts will expect the support and cooperation to be even stronger moving forward.

So your theory is out to lunch - and clearly formed by someone who knows nothing about the real nature of the Japan/US relationship.

[CharlesInCharge]

What makes you think the US gave Japan back its sovereignty?

[tool001]

^ dude what the heck r u even talking about...
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