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A quick youtube search yielded an insane SKS Bullpup stock kit. |
Nope, I said that the AK is not as accurate as others that shoot the same rounds. There's the SKS-D which takes AK mags that you can actually buy in Canada but those are rare to find these days - they are not full-auto though. The CZ 858, another popular 7.62x39 rifle in Canada, is a semi-auto version of the full-auto vz58. Not as popular as the AK but widely used as well. We can talk guns if you want, but I'm sure this is not the thread to do it. Most people don't care enough to understand in details to begin with. Also, as you said, to legal gun owners in Canada, none of the difference you listed matters. See, this is where people get mixed up when talking about gun control - what exactly is being controlled? If you're trying to prevent criminals from getting access to certain guns, then targeting legal owners does nothing at all since, as you mentioned, criminals have their own channels of arms supply. If we're trying to control or prevent the "crazies" from getting guns, then the issue is mental health and the abundance of (or lack of) a support system for those that need it. That is not to say that having some form of gun control has no value - it does. As I mentioned, we can do as much as we can do to screen out those potentially unstable people from having lethal weapons, but there will always be times where a determined individual will obtain the tool they need to inflict the maximum amount of damage, guns or not. I haven't been keeping up with the news on this incident lately - have they figured out the shooter's motive behind all this mess? |
video is dated but is still relevant. it explains how firearms are categorized, operate, and how appearance doesn't matter. video is from california which has similar gun control laws to canada |
Heres my theory from the info i collected. -shooter had mild aspergers (autism spectrum) sociopathic personality. no sense of sympathy toward people. -Mom and Dad just recently divorced. Went through Depression and anger towards parents -Mom is his primary caregiver after divorce so he depends on her emotionally for support and care. -eventually Mom spends more time with her kids at school than son.Mom is an avid gun collector. -Son goes in a jelous angry rage finds her guns. -Kills Mom then Kids then himself I've worked as a support worker with kids and adults with autism/aspergers and i can see how this all makes sense. This is a mental illness and these people should be monitored and treated 24/7. |
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When comparing guns, you don't simply go "well they can both put a bullet in you,so they are exactly equal" That would be like comparing a Ferrari with a Toyota and going "well they can both drive, so will be the same around a race track" You listed the many reasons why the AK is so ubiquitous with many militaries around the world. Easy to use, easy to clean, easy to 'spray and pray'. You listed many of the advantages that all make it deadlier than other guns. Yes, they can both put a bullet in people, but when one is so much easier to kill someone with, it becomes "a deadlier gun". Simply put, it is easier to kill someone with a rifle like an AK than it would be with many other rifles. The guy who killed all those kids had shot each kid "more than two times". Would he have been able to do that so easily with a bolt action rifle? Maybe, or maybe it would have taken longer and he would have been captured. Or maybe he would have only shot each person once, and there would be survivors, who knows. If a gun is built with the sole purpose of attacking humans, it has no business being in the hands of civilians. Or at least not with ammo within the same vicinity. |
I'm done with this thread. I've posted more substantiated evidence and dedicated more time to research in this thread than anyone else. Required reading for this thread should be the 1994 Federal Assault Weapons Ban and a history of school shootings since then. I believe I've posted enough to the masses of Revscene to sway those who are debating the issue. There are always those who will not be swayed. It never bothers me to have conflicting opinions with others, but it does bother me when they feed off of a sole source and preach it like a choir. I have read and listened to opinions on all aspects of this issue and I've come to my own beliefs of what is the root of the problem. I truly hope we have inspired young Revscene members to dive deeper into the issue than watching 5 minutes on the TV news. I only believe one truth more and more as time passes: Sheep will be sheep, wolves will be wolves, and sheepdogs will be sheepdogs. RIP to all the victims in this tragic event. My last article post in this thread: Quote:
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and yet you never answered Quote:
you've just chosen to ignore and move on to your next repeated point of "guns for all!".... |
I think that's a pretty easy answer, the volume out there cannot be controlled, there are hundreds of thousands of huge magazines out there You can restrict anything you want, if there are enough of Somthing floating around if you want it you'll get it Also the culture if the US is completely different than almost every other country in the world Posted via RS Mobile |
they could easily seize a great majority of the guns, it'll likely take years but still you would only be left with those hardcore nuts who will try and hoard/hide their guns and then they can begin offering money for guns, like they do in LA to try and dwindle down the remaining guns out there etc etc the only problem with that isn't the raving gun fanatic but rather the corporations like Walmart the point is they could easily mitigate the issue but they refuse to its just like the "war on drugs" it could easily be solved but the actual "war" employs a lot of people and the drugs also serve the govt. and govt. agencies need |
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The AK74 and the AR-15 fire a very similar round, 5.45x39 vs 5.56x45 The AK47 and the M14 fire a very similar round, 7.62x39 vs 7.62x51 --- The 5.56x45 is deadlier than the 5.45x39 The 7.62x51 is deadlier than the 7.62x39 --- Both the AR-15 and the M14 are legal in Canada, the (semi auto) AK and all of it's variants are banned because of their looks, and only because of their looks. The AK is no more capable than the M14 or AR-15 of killing many people in the wrong hands. Ease of cleaning is not an eligible cause for a ban, any firearm that has been taken apart to be cleaned is equally inoperable. Ease of use does not contribute to a firearm's killing potential, the fraction of a second's difference between loading times and switching the safety to fire is not a valid reason for a ban of one particular rifle. What you are looking for is the handling of the firearm, how easy it is to fire in rapid succession, and it is actually easier to control the recoil on an AR-15 than it is on an AK74. The M14 and the AK47 are approximately the same in terms of handling ability. |
Sigh... "Republican congressman says Sandy Hook principal should have had a machine gun so she could 'take his head off before he killed those precious kids'" Louie Gohmert says Sandy Hook Elementary School principal should have had a machine gun | Mail Online Same Congressman who has said a bunch of other whackjob things including "terror babies" Sad that either this Congressman is trying to get attention for himself and/or his constituents would still reelect him. |
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I'm not really feeling this. I would've rather have seen a darkened room, candles, the PICTURES of the victims and an unknown singer. This is about the victims, but it got turned into a celeb sing fest. |
The thing that got me were the names and ages... |
gun control is NOT the answer canada has fairly strict gun control on restricted firearms such as hand guns yet this just happend: Quote:
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how can you point to exceptions to the rule and act as if that's damning evidence that gun control doesn't work? of course there will be cases in which guns are illegally acquired especially when our next door neighbour has a free flow of them our problem in Canada with illegally acquired guns isn't our lack of control over it within the country but rather our borders with the united states allowing a free flow of illegal weapons to be smuggled over and that guy in your article was caught and is being prosecuted; that same article can be used as an example of how gun control works even against those who illegally acquire them... |
I am saying that even with the amount of gun control we have in Canada, which many people give as an example of what the US should do, it is still ridiculously easy to obtain guns. It doesn't matter if it came over the border or where it came from, the bad guys still have the guns, and our gun control is not keeping the guns out of their hands. Gun control keeps guns out of the hands of good guys. This guy was arrested and is being prosecuted because instead of walking in and shooting up the restaurant, he sat at the bar and had a drink. Almost like carrying the gun contrary to the law was a complete joke to him. Maybe if he was a little more unstable, or had another drink or 2, he may have done some damage before someone called the police, we don't know. Im not saying gun laws are silly and dont work. I am saying they are not the final answer to these shootings. The US needs to take some steps towards making guns more restricted (however that may be), but that wont solve the underlying problem. There is something wrong with the PEOPLE. Good law abiding people without mental health problems don't shoot 30 kids. I am pointing to 'an exception to the rule' because these mass murders ARE exceptions to the rule. |
Then we have to ask ourselves: if gun access isn't the difference, then what is? If it's possible for people to acquire guns just as easily here than there, then why is our gun violence and public-space-shooting rate so much lower? My knee-jerk reaction is gun laws, but if it is as you say then I'm wrong--so what's our answer? |
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35 million vs 310 million Health care You'd be surprised at how many companies in Canada actually offer free psychiatrist sessions, whereas in the USA mental health is still considered a relatively taboo subject that a lot of health care companies don't like to touch. Second Ammendment Hate to say, but the "right to bear arms" plays partially into it... If someone feels entitled to something that's "rightfully" theirs, they're gonna take it, even if they don't need to. That sort of attitude doesn't necessarily mean that they have the same sort of healthy respect for firearms that Canadians may have (not to say all Americans are gun-toting yahoo's and all Canadians are law-abiding, upstanding citizens... but the stereotype does exist for a reason) |
people who go crazy aren't 'good guys', they are people who most likely have mental health issues that should have been addressed. maybe that is the answer? better access to mental health help in canada? maybe our society simply cares about each other a little more that the thought of a mass killing doesn't cross our minds? everyone joke that canada is so polite after all. i don't have the answer. but i don't think the easy answer is the right one either. but making it a little harder to buy a gun if you're bat shit crazy wouldn't hurt either. what does it take, 3 days 'cool down period' to buy a gun in the states? in canada it takes a written and practical test, 28 days and a series of background checks, and quite often another 1-3 months on top of that. |
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I hope I'm not just needling and being a thorn in either of your sides, solutions and resolutions are hard to come by, it seems. |
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I'm not well versed enough to engage in serious technical discussions on guns. I've gleamed some knowledge from my exposure to guns though, and that causes me to question the comparison of the SKS and AK-47 as primarily aesthetically different. The mechanical design of the AK-47 seems to present a fundamentally more significant risk than the SKS if it reaches a person with ill intent. I see placing restrictions on legal gun owners as having a purpose for a specific reason. There is no secret, backdoor warehouse, selling new illegal guns manufactured in America, but criminals have possession of exactly that. There is only one explanation, guns are being purchased legally, and being passed onto the illegal supply chain. Legal guns turned illegal feed not only the underground supply chain in America, but Canada and to an extent Mexico as well. I see that as the truest effect of America's lax gun control laws. I don't think anything will ever completely prevent a determined criminal from obtaining an illegal gun, because they certainly could be smuggled in from other continents. A gun smuggled in from Russia would be much more expensive than one from within the continent though, and that would at least make it a more difficult for the average criminal to get a hold of. In Canada - I think our gun laws are very reasonable and prudent, I might like slightly tighter controls on restricted weapons, but overall, I think they're effective and fair. America just undermines them. I'm biased though, as I have no desire to own anything other than a basic hunting rifle. Quote:
In BC, if you have MSP coverage, I believe you are entitled to indefinite access to a psychiatrist. I'm sure America is much different, and there is more to the lack of a fundamental social safety net causing these incidents. |
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