it doesnt take skill to be classy...hell its not even hard, be polite and respectful to others and where you are. voila.

but okay,well if they can be classes rich snobs, lets say me and my friends wanna become degenerate lowlife asshole punks who everynight vandalize and spray paint their signs forcing them to replace them every 2 weeks? would you then be telling me to shape up and grow up cause im ruining their buisness? if so, its okay to tell me how to live my life there since im screwing with their buisness?

god forbid if i simply ask for english letters on a sign though...after all, its not like its screwing with my life, forcing me to eat further away, being litterally forced to live further away (but like you said. take it or fuck off and move eh?)

why not? the gov. already forces people to attempt to be healthy by picking and chosing what they can and cant eat in school vending machines..where people can and cant smoke..what weapons we can own for self defence...whats one more to the list eh?

haha sure i can. is it smart, no, but i sure the hell can.


were we pushing twice as hard for the past 4-500 years? or just hard enough to be ontop? cause i honestly think we can push a lot harder, just takes people to stand up and say fuck this shit. people in new west, coq, langley, burnaby may not have as much care as the woman in richmond, but once this starts creeping into their towns, i bet then they'll stand up and say something.

See, you are clearly making is an "us" against "them" argument. I am not 'anti-chinese' signs. Fuck, make 99% of the fucking sign Chinese! I am in favour of that sign being translated into an official language for safety reasons.

Let's take this 'business' argument. So, you feel that discouraging a large part of the population from being patrons at your store a positive for your bottom line. Please explain. If you are "breaking your back" "trying to make a buck", how would specifically limiting your income be beneficial. Are you saying that if these businesses have english on their signs, the Chinese population would stop shopping there?

Segregation is the basis of racism.

So....I'm going to back this up a bit...say 30 years. Let's use your example of the Indian community in Surrey and apply it to the previous European community in Richmond. If, say and Chinese family immigrated to Canada and settled in Richmond, would you not expect them to "embrace the culture because" they " would be surrounded by them. regardless of who" they are, "or what" they "have done".

You, yourself, point out how a minority culture should respect and embrace the majority culture. See the irony?

TO CLARIFY: this is NOT my opinion. I don't not agree with assimilation, but at the same time, I do not agree with segregation.

Yeah buddy. I wrote a thesis on Cultural Evolution Based on Environmental Changes. Pretty sure I am not, as you so delicately put it, "retarded".

Why not. I shop in stores like that all the time....ya know what happens when ya assume something...

Google "segregation"....and more specifically "racial segregation" because I am pretty sure we are not discussing sexual segregation in this thread.

I am not learning Chinese because I don't live in China. I do not require Chinese to go about my usual day. I am rarely in a situation where knowing Chinese would be advantageous and should that day ever come, it would be something to consider.

Well, no shit.

Don't talk about things you know little about. You're right. You are on a different level than I.

.

This is not about culture, taking it there only implies racism and xenophobia. This is about people wanting to force PRIVATE businesses to do something. Saying shit like this:

is just plain stupid. As long as they're not breaking the rules, they can do whatever the fuck they want. Why do you feel the need to control people? Who the fuck are you to decide someones private business practice? Just because you feel discouraged when seeing no English on a sign doesn't mean everyone else does. Maybe you're not part of the target market, ever thought of that?

i assume all chinese only signs in richmond are rub n tugs...

This. In one article there was one guy, his store ONLY sells books in Chinese. What do you want to change his store name to? "Chinese Book Store"? What a waste of money for the owner. How far can this language issue go? Make the store start carrying books in English?

Bringing this back to the signs... A lot of the signage in Richmond does have english. The difference is that the english is probably on a different panel so it LOOKS like there's no english on it but really the english is right beside it.

Personally, I moved out of Surrey because I didn't want to be a part of their culture. I don't go to Commercial because I don't want to be a part of hipster culture. Same idea.

your definition of polite and respectful are subjective. their definition is different.

as long as u work hard, pay taxes, and don't start shit with other people and intrude on their business, and them them do things their way, that is respect.

to be polite is to kindly nod their head and smile and carry on, instead of telling you they don't want to deal with you.

no, because they are not destroying property. they are not deliberately attacking you because they don't like the way you do things.

instead of attacking classless rich snobs... why don't you go attack poor classless people? lol, if anything, they need it more. cuz they've got nothing going for them.


yeah u can ask for it. and they said no. and the city said no. and the majority said no.

like others have mentioned. if you wanna pay for it. sure. im sure they'd accept it with open arms. if you took care of all work and money involved. they'd gobble it up in a second.


you're NOT being forced to live further away. you CHOOSE to do it because you FEAR it. because you don't want to adapt and learn. because things change, and you didn't.

you can live there like all the other people in that area that just get along fine without reading Chinese.

school vending machines cuz they're kids. and kids are "too stupid" to make their own decisions. and many don't have the option to leave the ground and pay for their own food else where.

all those things you listed are based on democracy, majority rules. much like this situation.

yeah, they will stand up and say something, and like this woman in richmond, they'll get shut down. for the exact same reason. because they will look at who has the majority voting power. and then they will look at who is boosting the economy. and if it's the chinese (or whatever ethnic group), they will get their way.

any victory nay sayers get, will just be a minor victory in some small battle. over time, the majority will always get their way. it could be within your life, or the next generation or the next etc.



you have a blurred vision of what those safety reasons may be. in actuality, it makes no difference. richmond is at its most prosperous state and running at its pinnacle since it's indoctrination... as of right now. yes RIGHT NOW. this is the best version of richmond there has ever been as far as the government and the people care.


because people are not robots idiot.

if you had to put chinese signs on your business and cater to chinese speaking customers, you'd probably get a headache and say fuck that shit.

well guess what. that's what it's like to them.

they're happy with the way their business runs. they don't want to cater to others even if it means more money. it's not to do with racism, it's to do with the fact that they have something good going for them and they don't want to take the risk and change it. or learn any new skills.

THEY'RE COMFORTABLE. you can't argue against that.


it's not racism. what the nay sayers are doing is racist.

what the chinese are doing is what any human would do. they are too fucking lazy and think it's too much of a headache to learn a new language just to cater to a small minority that probably won't boost their business by much.

if they knew it would boost their income by a significant amount, and they wanted that signficant amount, they would do it.

but guess what. they don't care. they just wanna do what they've been doing. and that's that. they're cruising. they're not hungry CEO types that wants their hands in everyone's wallets.


yeah they would. because they have to. like i said. you have the respect the community that controls the area.

if they moved here in the 70s or 80s. they sure as hell would learn english. english and cantonese. because no one spoke mandarin back then.

my parents and their generation moved here in the early 80's. all their taiwanese friends were forced to learn cantonese so they could function in china town. and they were all forced to learn english so they could function everywhere else.

they all speak very good english now. they all went to ESL classes and all that shit for years.

BECAUSE THEY HAD TO. they had to to function within the community that was controlled by english speakers and cantonese speakers.

but guess what. it's not 30 years ago. it's NOW.

and NOW, they control the community. they dictate how it's run.

richmond is 60% chinese. the majority is chinese.
vancouver is 50% minorities. what do you expect?

we live in a democracy. land of the free. u know what the definition of free is?
to do whatever you want. and do you know when there is a conflict of freedom what people do? they vote, or go to war, and usually the majority wins.

it's not INTENTIONAL segregation like i've said.

reverse the roles. most people are just TOO lazy to care to learn a new skill.


if there was some universal language everyone was fluent in, they would gladly use that.

it's not an issue of segregation of culture.
IT'S THE ISSUE OF THE FACT THAT PEOPLE CAN'T READ A DIFFERENT LANGUAGE.

you don't think i've gone into a store and asked the store keeper a question, and all i get is a blank face, and a shaking head, and a shrug.

yeah u know what i do? i take my money somewhere else. there's plenty of options.

i also am resourceful. i have a fucking iphone. i can type in google translate and then show them the chinese, and usually they'll get it.

you learn to interact with people without knowing the language.

it's called living life on a diverse planet.

writing a thesis does not make one smart. i wrote and edited several theses. i guess i'm super smart then. a thesis is like writing an article for some magazine that will never be read.

the only ones that count are the ones that have had their work expanded on by others.


yeah i have the right to assume that. because that's what you do when you run a business. you asses the risk:reward. and also the work:reward.

if i were some old chinese dude, that didn't know any english, and didn't want to learn it because it's too hard (how can you except them to learn english, when you don't learn chinese? it's just as hard for them as it is for you, so .... yeah).

i wouldn't wanna do the work. i don't care if i get less business. i just don't wanna do the work.

you can't use the "well they should cuz they're in canada". no u can't use that argument.
they're ALREADY in canada. the government already deemed them ok to be here AND run a business. someone higher up already decided that.

you have no say in that area anymore.

the government sees them as little gears, that grind away that help pull up the GDP. and they're not fucking anything up, and they're playing nice. and they sure as hell do their job good. why would the government hate on them?

this isnt racial segregation.

this is just, you can't read their signs, so you feel uncomfortable.

they are too lazy to learn english, so they just don't care.


all the nay sayers sound like nazi's

"oh no all the jews are coming in and pushing us out!!!"


well if you venture into richmond, then you will require chinese if you want to interact with locals and the local merchants.

the vendors in richmond are rarely in a situation where knowing english would be advantageous and should that ever come, it would be something they would consider.

you don't have to live in china, china has come to you, whether you like it or not. it's not a matter of subjection opinion.

they're here. and they're here legally. they're people just like you. and there's a lot of them. we're a democracy. 1+1=2.


lol, give me a break. you opinions are subjective, and egocentric. self serving. self pleasing.

mine are not.





btw, like 95%+ of the signs in richmond have english. i don't know what the fuck these people are protesting about. they pick a few signs that are all chinese (one's you'd have to venture out and TRY to find), then they blow it up like all of richmond is doing this, obviously because there is some racist undertone. they are using it to attack everything else.

I wasn't implying that this was my opinion, I was simply using this as an example to show that this part of his argument had no logic.
Posted via RS Mobile

To those who've read this since page 1: you could've finished a short novel by now.

If page count of this thread doubles, I would say it'd be similar to reading To Kill a Mocking Bird

http://www.sowal.com/bb/images/smili...ng-popcorn.gif


/thread

it obviously flew right over your head, because your reply is totally out to lunch and has nothing to do with what i said. hence why hotshot1 thinks your reply is completely retarded. i don't know how you interpreted it. but it's wrong.

Why can't we all just get along? The normal people AND the orientals?

This is what you guys sound like:
Muslim immigrants want Switzerland to change national flag - English pravda.ru
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jylland...ns_controversy

But with a little role reversal.

I'm genuinely curious why so many of you are throwing the racism card around so much. To imply that people who want to see some sort of English translation on a sign is a racist act/are xenophobic is pretty much the same as being ignorant to the fact as to why said people would like the change. A person can be perfectly comfortable living with and around people with another culture even if there's an aspect of their life they don't agree with. That single dislike doesn't mean they suddenly despise an entire race.

There was a time in my life (before I wised up and thought better of it) where I was going to get my German citizenship and move there. I would have split my time in Europe between Germany and France. Now, I realize that English is relatively common in the EU, but I still spent two years prior brushing up on my French and German in preparation of moving there. I wasn't going to move there with the assumption that I could live the rest of my life solely on English in two countries where their national languages are something else. If I was going to open up a business, as was the plan, I was going to do it in German and have French as my backup language for travelling there. To assume I could have survived solely on English, while probably feasible, wasn't smart for business.

To me, it was about respecting the established culture already present and making sure I was able to integrate smoothly into society. I'm not sure why other people, regardless of race or nationality, don't think about that prior to moving to another country.

I dunt get it?

This topic's sort of blowing itself out of proportion now lol. I'm sure the folks in Richmond wanted to venture into an oriental chinese establishment but they were confus because all it said was Chinese on the sign and minimalistic english such as Taste Good Wonton Restaurant or the likes of that. I doubt 800 of those signatures were actually "racist" or "biased" towards the Chinese specifically. I'm sure if Richmond were more of the likes of Surrey or Main Street here in Vancouver; those 800 folks would still be signing the petition towards foreign language being the majority on the signage.

In the end, it's just the businesses losing particular patrons, and this doesn't concern them anyways since their target market are for those who know/have a knowledge of the Chinese language and culture. I'm sure if some of us who did not know anything about chinese and went into a chinese herbal shop, we wouldn't know what to do with Fat Choy or a vast majority of the herbs in that shop.

Turns out they were not racist, they just didn't know how Canada works.

In the original article, the advocators said there is something WRONG because they cannot read the signs. I totally sympathize those who cannot read the signs, but to outright call it WRONG and got a petition to change it, is a direct contradiction to what Canada stands for. At first I assumed these people know how Canada works, so the only conclusion that can be arrived at is they are racist. But after listening to some comments, turns out they are just ignorant.

Whose culture? Canada composes of many different cultures, which one are you referring to? To them, the culture in Richmond is Chinese Canadian with a heavy Chinese speaking population and it seems like they integrated in to that society very smoothly.

Not putting words on a sign so people can read it doesn't mean they are not respecting Canada. If anything they are a proud Canadian Citizen exercising their right to freedom of speech and expression.

There also seems to be a really weird impression that: "Since Canada did you a favour, let you in to the country and gave you a pamphlet in Chinese so you can read, you have to do the same for us and learn English". That maybe the case, but just because they have a Chinese only sign, doesn't mean that individual is not respectful of Canada or doesn't speak English themselves. Hence, the debate that it is a business decision rather than a segregation issue. I think it is a business decision because I THINK the target audience for those products are looking for the authentic experience and advertising the name in full Chinese gives the impression that it is.

if you talk to any new mainlander here, and ask them why they moved here, they'll tell you. it's a very simple answer.

they heard they don't have to learn english, they heard it's all chinese people. they heard they'd slip right in and it'll feel almost just like home. thats why they moved here. instead of anywhere else.

because they can do that here.

it's like you, wanting to move to country X. and you hear of this city, where you can live like a canadian, and be surrounded by canadians. DUH you'd just move there.

they did think about it. they picked richmond. not vancouver. not surrey. not saskatoon, not LA, not Toronto. not anywhere. they thought about it hard, and picked richmond.

just like 15-20 years ago, when the hongers moved here. they heard it's full of hongers.

they migrate here, because it's the most comfortable and easiest path.

^hongers moved here because they didn't know if China could be trusted, that jump started the mindset that Ricemond is a protectorate of Chinarrrr :troll:

my head hurts from reading this

:derp:

The established culture in Richmond is now chinese restaurants and malls. You are coming into their city, not the other way around.

Your example is irrelevant by the way. Most people in France and Germany mainly speak French and German. People in richmond speak mainly Chinese with english as a secondary language. So by your logic people coming into Richmond should learn Chinese with english as a backup.
Posted via RS Mobile

I know, irony of ironies, right?

Ulic hit it on the head when he points out that this "political correctness" charade is really just a manifestation of fear. I bet if the local Chinese population weren't so economically successful, there would be A LOT LESS COMPLAINING. It's quite clear what is happening in the Lower Mainland, the successful second/third/fourth generation Canadians have the ability to live wherever they want (Vancouver, West Van, North Van; and they dominate the local political arena) whereas the least-successful Canadians can't compete economically and have been marginalized to live in the boonies (and they're being outcompeted in the boonies too haha ie: EI's in Surrey, Chinese in Richmond). And now, the least-competitive are trying to vent their frustrations by lobbying the government, concealing their frustrations behind the cloak of political correctness. But what they fail to understand is that the marketplace doesn't give a crap about what they think, the marketplace only rewards those who understand the rules of the game, and play it well. And since WE LIVE IN A CAPITALISTIC SOCIETY, THE BEST CAPITALISTS RULE. :D They again fail to understand (which is readily predictable, this is why they are being outcompeted not just in the marketplace but also in schools) that governments are reactionary agents, that is they are almost always the last to respond to changing circumstances. Governments are rarely innovators/game changers and when a new pecking order has been established (re: the most successful capitalists prevailing), the government will readily line up to serve their new masters.

The "survival of the fittest" does not apply only between species but also within species. And this natural law applies equally well, if not more so in humans. Compete or perish bitchezz. :D

Sigh. I wonder if the people writing some of these posts and continue to say "I'm not racist or xenophobic at all!" realize that they sound racist or xenophobic - however subtle you want to be about it. This is what I meant when I said that growing up I have always felt that white Anglo-Saxon Canadians will always feel like they are more Canadians than people of any other race that decide to raise their family here.

The environment is forcing you to move - the subculture of Richmond, not the people. No one is telling you how to live your life. You can choose to adapt to it, or you can not. But telling other people how to conduct business is not the solution. Again, you are asking people (AND THE ENVIRONMENT) to adapt to your shortcomings and failure to adapt to the current culture, and not the other way around.

And please do not resort to examples of vandalism - your xenophobia really shows through.


You're comparing Chinese population of Richmond to school children?... The difference is they can actually vote, and they bring in taxes. They can make decisions about what's good and what's bad for their businesses and their lives. Did I forget to mention they aren't 5?



And there we have it folks. There is the racism and xenophobia. Your words make it as clear as ever that you have always felt superior as a Canadian than those whom share this country.

Your only mistake is that you didn't do something about it when Anglo's were still the majority. Sorry, but you have already lost that battle. But it's okay- don't worry. Chinese are a peaceful people: we won't tell you how to live your lives and will not strike back. We'll simply show you that we now have control by not bending to your obvious racist attacks.


No. You and the proponents against all Chinese signs made it an US against Them. You aren't in favor of the sign for "safety reasons" Give me a fucking break. The people can take care of themselves THANK YOU VERY MUCH. Stop trying to hide your fucking racism under trying to be nice and thinking about our fucking safety. You aren't happy with the fact that a Chinese business can operate and thrive in Richmond without a word of English. That pisses you off because YOU can't understand it and you feel entitled to this land and now you are an outsider. At least own up to your actions and stop pretending like you care about their well being. Everyone can see through the stupid bullshit. I rather people be openly racist than silently backstabbing us in the back trying to pretend to be nice. It's so fucking disgusting.


Fact: having English on their signs in Richmond will not increase their sales dramatically.

If it did, those minute small amounts of businesses that do not have English signs would have done that. Businesspeople do not spend money on a giant sign without having thought of that. They realized English would be a waste of space. Please accept that and again, stop pretending like you are trying to do this out of trying to benefit them.


Times have changed. People adapted to Canada by learning English because they had to. Now some immigrants don't feel the need to learn English because the Environment has changed. Please deal with it. I do not expect people to do anything. That's why I love Canada. The government doesn't try to dictate how I live my life as long as I pay my taxes and don't break the law.

Isn't this what this whole thread is about? You walking into Richmond about your usual day, and NOT being able to read the signs? Isn't the whole point? Would it not be advantageous for you since your peers in Richmond are mostly Chinese, and you are complaining about not being able to read it, that I don't know, maybe you should try to learn it?

You know what's fucked up? You say all this shit and keep trying to pretend that you want what's best for us. But really, you are just scared and angry that we are so different from you that you might actually need to change and adapt *gasp* while living in Canada. You are so comfortable and cozy in your lifestyle now that environment and culture around you has so drastically changed that you have become out of touch and unable to adapt. And the biggest part? You are unwilling and you rather support government control on someone else's lives while infringing on freedom of choice and speech just to protect yourself from your own insecurities.

Oh how quickly tolerance and freedom melts away when people does not choose the way that you (want) them to.

Some of the Chinese really aren't that different from you: they really are just old and lazy and don't feel the need to learn a new language. I can guarantee you this won't be happening in your children's generation if the government really are slowing down immigration stats. But the only difference is we don't go around feeling superior telling others what they should do under the guise of "Honey, I'm only worried about your safety!" Guess what? They are just as Canadian as you, English speaking or not. Banks are in Chinese. Insurance is in Chinese. Hell, even the politicians speak Chinese and hand out Chinese pamphlets. I'm talking about the fucking white politicians, not the Chinese one. They can do anything in this country that you can, including vote and run their businesses how they see fit.

Make no doubt about it: The day has already come, and has come for a very long time. That's what this whole conversation is all about. If you plan to keep coming to Richmond, maybe you should start considering it.

that was an example...i wasn't serious about it.

why not compare? ive seen more than enough people do things that a 5 year old would do, such as pickign their noses in public and litterally FLICKING it at stores, blowing their noses without a kleenex onto sidewalks, spitting on sidewalks in the path of a person walking towards them that are less than 10 feet away, cross the street of a busy intersection when theres a fucking street light no more than 50 yards away....



yup, guess so, you nailed that one spot on! anything else you'd like to tell me about myself that you know from your proffesional point of view?


like lomac said, he brushed up his language skills before he went to germany and france. could he have gotten by without it? probably yeah....but its a simple thing called manners and respect for the country your in. just cause you can get by easily is no excuse not to, that just sounds pathetic and lazy on their part.