Businesses cater to there customers. If there was a large increase in English only speaking customers I guarantee you signs would change.

What you are saying is true. What also is becoming the reality is that Asian establishments will continue to thrive as long as the community supports it. I can't say for sure that immigration is slowing down or not, but as long as people give these establishments business, they will continue to operate the same way they always have.


When major services such as Shaw have Cantonese ads and collateral for the community, and then service in the same language, people will never learn "english"

As I have said, new immigrants can live comfortably, and run a successful business at the same time because it is %100 possible to do EVERYTHING in your own language.

Someone can move here from China, purchase, finance, mortgage, setup banking all in Mandarin, because banks have material that targets them. They can then go to Shaw and be given %100 servicing in Cantonese/Mandarin. Set up hydro and gas in the same language. Go to an TelCo dealer and be service 100% in mandarin/cantonese.

This is where the major problem lies, there is no effort needed to begin a new life here for immigrants.

This problem will never end either. Can't blame the services either, as they are in the world to make money, and what better way than to target ethnic groups with customer support in their mother tongue.

Absolutely, but the issue is defining it as a "PROBLEM". Its not a problem, you can function normally with your day without knowing a single word on the signs, just like how someone who does not know english can still function normally. The issue is that its ANNOYING people that don't speak the language, so they want others to change to suit their needs.

I totally sympathize that ANNOYANCE that it may cause, but you can't stop or tell people what to do because you can't adapt.

What's disgusting is not just that these Socialists want Big Brother to run their lives but they want Big Brother to run all our lives as well.

I am CBC and can speak Canto but I don't patron most of these stores anyway and I'm not going to start just because they put up some stupid english signs. What these Socialists/Xenophobes fail to understand is that stores like these (whether they are Chinese, East Indian or whatever) are not vying for your business, they are targeting a very specific niche. This is called CAPITALISM, but I doubt these Socialists will understand. Mandating stores to display their signs/menus/catalogues/etc. in english/french when these stores don't even cater to native english/french speakers is beyond ridiculous and wasteful. What's the point of having english banners, etc. when the workers can barely speak english and the goods they sell don't appeal to the masses anyway? Forcing entrepreneurs to adhere to a myriad of stupid rules and regulations such as these only adds to costs (re: waste) and produces nothing of tangible value.

Unless the gov't decides to ban all non-english-speaking immigrants (this would include most European immigrants LOL), there will always be communities that get converted into enclaves for said immigrants. Forcing small businesses to display english/french signs will not change the composition of the people working and shopping at these establishments in the least. All these whiners are really just closet-xenophobes pretending to be politically correct. These cultural enclaves take up what, less than 1% of the Canadian urban landscape? If you don't like them, there is still 99% remaining where you can do your thing.

Personally, I am a city/urban person and find suburbs with their characteristic McMansions, big box discount stores and giant parking lots really ugly but clearly millions of Canadians think otherwise. What I don't do is go around crying a river about it or worse, lobby the government to try to force other people to live the way I think is optimal. Instead, I understand that there are urban people and there are suburban people.

One of the defining characteristics of a free society is when disparate people (re: cultures) can live side by side without infringing on the natural rights of others.

99% of the signs in Hong Kong have english as well as chinese, so I don't see why they couldn't do the same in Richmond

What really pisses the HK people off is when the signs are in simplified. Those almost always get defaced

I see a lot of people angry on this thread and throwing out comments like "If you didn't want to learn English, don't come to Canada. Go back to China."

No, I don't think you get it. If you don't want to live in a city immersed in Chinese culture, move away from Richmond. Canada is the second largest in the WORLD, and the only place that this is happening is predominantly Richmond and parts of Vancouver. If you don't like what's happening here, there's plenty of other places you can move to that fits "your culture". The world is changing. Our city is changing. Don't try to change the whole ecosystem because you cannot adapt. It's that simple! You know what's funny? I was asking my little brother the other day how many white people he had in his high school class. He said there was one, and everyone else was Asian. IIRC the stats for Richmond is between 60-80% foreigners and the rest are white. Even ICBC lets you take your drivers test in Chinese. All pamphlets and PSAs regarding important messages are in Chinese and Punjabi.

I see all these people screaming "This is CANADA. Your living in my country. Why don't you speak my language." I think you are wrong. We are living in OUR country, in our community, and we can speak whatever language we want to speak. The majority of the people of this region decided that this is how we want our city to function and operate. I believe that is our right and we are free to do so? That's what makes Richmond and Vancouver unique. I saw punjabi/english ROAD SIGNS on Fraser Road!! Even the government has learned to adapt - why can't you?

This is what I love about Canada. Canada is about choice and freedom, and the basis of our economy have always been built on immigration.

I don't go down No.5 Road or head into Surrey and expect everyone to understand me. If I was ever going to be so upset that they didn't speak English, then I just wouldn't go there unless I wanted something specific.

I don't know where you guys go that makes you feel like "you aren't welcome in your own city". I haven't ever see a white person go into a restaurant that was ever treated any differently. If anything, the Chinese waitresses try even harder with their broken English to try to help you get what you want. Don't know what something on the menu is? ASK. You aren't socially awkward are you? People like Ulic and second/third generation Canadians that don't have fluent Chinese but still thrive in this city. I love how multicultural Richmond. I WANT to go into a Japanese restaurant where the guy cooking my food speaks broken English - that means that he probably rolls a mean sushi and cooks a good skewer. Love the place you live, and learn to live in it. Don't try to change the macro-environment to cater to your own personal selfish needs.

^lol i actually don't agree with ICBC letting people take the test other then English or any other governmental test/document for that matter. That shit is serious, what if theres a sign that is in english that is telling u to don't fucking drive thru because its theres a giant hole and you taking the test in chinese don't recognize that sign and fall right in, costing us tax payer to haul ur car and corpse out of the hole.

I don't go to richmond much and to these chinese places in richmond even less but whenever i try to speak in my grade 3 cantonese the salespeople always start speaking english to me instead. I'm curious what kind of questions you guys are asking or how you're asking them that they can't answer you?

Do you say, "No peanuts? *point to self* Allegy"
or
do you say, "I have a type 1 hypersensitivity reaction to peanuts and will go into anaphylactic shock. Is this dish accommodating to my condition?"

I am in complete agreement that if you move to Canada you should make an attempt to learn some english/french. I just want to be clear on my stance.

From a business perpective, these business with only chinese seem to be doing okay without all our business. I know I don't visit them and from the sounds of it most people here don't either. Yet they make enough money to stay open.

I think this problem will work itself out over time. As someone mentioned earlier, the influx of Asians immigrants started in the 90's. They would be are the ones running the businesses. You can see from all the CBC's here, they see the value in having english and chinese on the signs. Small businesses will either be passed down the family to a much more Canadianized owner, or it will close up shop.

Richmond just happens to be on the rise right now. Other older cultural communities thoughout the lower mainland don't have this problem to the same magnitude as they have evolved out of it or will slowly die out. Chinatown, Little Italy, the East Indian businesses along Main St and Fraser St (don't know what they call it) but they're changing.

Assimilation vs Integration

LOL, a "giant hole" in English is still a "giant hole" in any other language, it's just said differently. The important thing is that drivers understand and obey traffic signs and traffic rules, the language they interpret these signs/conditions/rules in their head is irrelevant.

If the sign says giant hole up ahead in english, how would someone that does not know english know?

There is a reason why most road signs are in pictorial form and not in written form. This is to minimize the language barrier/brain processing time and to allow as many diverse drivers to drive safely on public roads as possible.

If there is a "giant puddle"/inclimate weather condition/what have you and said driver fails to respond in an acceptable and safe manner, no sign will save him/her. There is no cure for stupidity. :badpokerface:

This is fucking retarded.
Making a by-law that requires some form of English on signs, is not such a bad idea, I mean, if the city does it with the intentions of allowing everyone access to everything and to enforce the fact that our national language IS English, I can swallow that.
But even then, the way this specific scenario has played out is pretty retarded.
I mean, these "activists" are arguing that “This is not cultural harmony because I have no idea what these signs, advertising and the real estate papers are saying".
Is it not societal harmony then if I operate at a phd level, and you flunked out of highschool? I mean, should we force all smart people to dumb themselves down for dumb people?

But on another note, If I am a business owner, and I've never seen ONE white person, or non-chinese person in my store ever. Why the fuck should I have english on my sign? Well, you might say, you've never seen a white person in your store because the english on your sign is too vague. Well, if I buy a new sign, and I still get no white people coming in to buy shit, is the city going to pay for my sign?

Would you build a dog house if you didn't own no fucking dog or planned on owning a dog, but just cause everyone else was doing it?

May I remind everyone this country did not start off as English speaking.

Go right ahead with whatever you want to put on your sign. I'm not gonna walk in and whine about not being able to read the sign like your business is the only one in vancouver that I must pay for.

If you were the monopoly of the province, then I'd be concern. But then you'd have to publish/advertise in chinese anyways because majority tends to rule here.

If the province includes majority white and I didn't know english, I would fucking go learn it because who doesn't want to learn more languages? People who complain are just a bunch of arrogant fuck heads that are as lazy as those chinese owners who refuse to learn english. They are of the same level when it comes to putting effort into understanding each other. Neither side wants to cope with the other. Since that is the case, then so be it, go find/do your business elsewhere.

White/western culture tends to love to stick their nose into other people's business, I swear. It's like they want the moment of, "I stood up and said it, and I feel that a change needs to be established to serve us better".

Before you justify others of their effort and actions, first think about yourself. What you think about the other person could be exactly what you are.

This is a great debate thread. Good points being brought up from both sides.

As a white Canadian, I do agree that new immigrants/foreigners should assimilate to "our" way of living for those English speaking peeps that have been here "forever". But I'm just not big on change, that's all. My problem, no one elses. It's no biggie though. I don't sweat it. It's not really affecting my day to day lifestyle. However, the world is changing and Canada prides itself on striving for multiculturalism so it's no surprise that this is where were at. If I'm not mistaken there are more Asian people than White people worldwide now. The Muslim religion has more followers than Christianity now. I also agree that the "White" peeps have been butt-raping other societies for the better part of 2000 years. And so on. I'd even go as far as to say that the "White" gene is a weak gene when compared to others. I'm not racist or a xenophobe or anything so I hope I don't offend anyone. Just stating that whether we like it or now, shits changing. One can choose to be bitter about it or accept it.

There will certainly be a "changing of the guard" over the next couple decades.

This is what i was gonna say lol

People here are saying that if doing this brought in more business people would do it. Not true. People are lazy and shitty business people. Those stores who have a history of smart business in richmond like top gun group are successful because they know their niche but cater to all. They are about money and reputation . Meanwhile the little shops remain little. This has nothing to do with smart business decisions and niches. It's just bad business and not seeing further potential

You're telling me the small shops would be opposed because they want to continue with their niche? Bullshit every business owner wants to make more money and retire earlier. Possibly pass it on to their kids.
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You clearly don't understand the business of business, or people for that matter. Every single business has a target audience (niche) whether clearly stated or vaguely imagined. Also, the target market for every business is unique as is every operator/owner of said business is unique. Any business owner/investor with a modicum of success can tell you that. You don't just blindly try to "cater to all" like an idiot, that's just "shitty" business sense.

Just because a business doesn't think of you (the unwashed masses) as a potential customer doesn't make it "shitty."

:rukidding:

99% of the signs in HK have English? :suspicious:

Maybe you need to visit more of HK

No you clearly just don't understand my comment thanks for the first year marketing lesson but i was saying that there is an unrealized demand and lots of business would result from a simple translated sign
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When people want the best jap food they eat at an authentic jap owned place. Same with Chinese and Indian food. That's a niche. A niche is not appealing to a race but branding your food as the best in a specific type of cuisine. Untapped missed opportunity here by SHITTY business people. I dunno what an 'unwashed masses' are but yeah it all does indeed make it shitty

Sure, signage is usually fairly universal (though not always). However, what happens when you hit a construction zone and they use those electronic billboards to convey their warnings? Those are all written in English or French.

Funny how you keep throwing the word Socialism around like it's an insult. You do realize that the CPC refers to themselves as "Socialism with Chinese characteristics," no?

Oh, and you blindly calling those people Xenophobes is just as presumptuous.

But I digress.

Here's an example. I love trying out new kinds of food. It doesn't matter if it's Chinese, Ethiopian (yes, there's actually an Ethiopian restaurant here :lol), Indian, etc., etc. I prefer going to smaller, mom and pop style stores because they tend to be much more genuine and authentic than an AYCE sushi bar or a well known Schnitzel Haus. Two days a week I go to school in Richmond and because I have a couple hours to kill between classes, I usually spend them seeking out new places to eat. One of the problems I've come across over the past three months is that there are a lot of places that simply refuse to deal with someone who doesn't speak Mandarin or Cantonese. It doesn't matter if you're white, brown, or even Chinese-born but have no knowledge of Mandarin. I tried to circumvent it by trying to draw pictures of what I'd like ot order or showing images on my phone but they would simply shake their head and point to the door in an obvious attempt to make me leave.

Don't get me wrong; I have been to plenty of other places with the same issues where a shop has no English signage or has very poor English skills, but they were absolutely wonderful to deal with. We'd do our best to communicate with one another and eventually one of us would begin to understand what was going on. And if the shop owner didn't quite understand and brought me something else to eat, meh... no big deal. I always make sure to leave a big tip after one of these encounters, partially because I create a bigger hassle as a customer than most of their regulars I imagine, and partially because their food is generally that much better.

Funny enough, one of the shop owners and I have begun to teach each other basic words in English and Mandarin.

Holy crap, that was an aside. I think I lost my original point somewhere in that story. :lol

Here are the examples that were given in the original article.

http://www.richmond-news.com/news/81...?size=620x400s
http://www.richmond-news.com/news/81...nsize=620x400s
http://www.richmond-news.com/news/81...?size=620x400s

The top picture is the advertising for the company's store at the back which is called
G & R Ginseng Trading Ltd. With it saying 10-50% off. I think its safe to assume its 10-50 % off the Ginseng

For the bottom picture.
The yellow sign says Union Square.

And the bottom brand that says Sea Horse has a website printed on the side of the building that says www.seahorsemattress.com; I wonder what sea horse mattress could be selling?

just from doing a drive by, i would probably never notice the words G&R ginsing trading. its such a smaller sign in comparison that the larger signs would attract my eyes first, and i'd completely drive past it.

same for seahorsemattress.com, unless i was looking for a mattress and was walking past that store and happened to see the website printed on the window...id never walk in or recognize it.

im like 90% of the other white people i know, if we see a sign that says "sushi", we'll drive past it, and recognize it and maybe later that week we'll be looking for somewhere to eat, and one of us suggests sushi...we can at least say "hey i saw a lil sushi place the other day, wanna try it out?". if its all in a different language, we'll just skip past it and will never become a customer unless one of us is physically brought there by someone whos been there before.

as for me being curious and just popping in on my own free will. sure, id love to. but i dont have enough time in my day to walk around and pop into each store to figure out whats in it and what they have to offer. hence why im all up for the signs have the majority in english. i bet 9at least 75% of teh restaurants in richmond are good enough to have me come back agian for more, but without that sign telling me what they are/have. i simply dont have the free time to go in and check out and for that reason, i simply stick to places i know.

To be fair, most company's names don't say what their business is about anyway. Companies like Moores, Gap, Best Buy... none of them give a great description about what they sell. We only know what's there because of advertising or because we've shopped there in the past.

I think what you're looking for is more advertising done in English.

You're attempting too broad an argument.

Defining the impact of colonialism in a single sentence is not possible.

In Northern Canada, communities functioning entirely on Inuktitut exist because they're geographically separated from Southern Canada. In Southern America, communities functioning entirely on French Creole and Mexican Spanish exist because that's the native language of the predominantly immigrant populations. The Inuit were "anally raped by westerners long ago" and forced into a sedentary existence, French Creole and Mexican Spanish groups had similar experiences.

Your argument is an outright failure, sorry.

I argue the reason is simple.

In Richmond, Cape Dorset, and the Southern Communties I cited, it's not necessary to learn English, so some people don't.

I want all long-term residents to possess basic English skills though.

It's not a matter of xenophobia though; quite honestly, I'm somewhat disheartened that an intelligent person would write-off the reasoning so simply.

I want long-term residents to involve themselves in Canadian culture and politics, the HST vote for example.

I want to be able to interact in Richmond as easily as Vancouver, Burnaby, Surrey, and so on, and not feel my ethnicity is a limitation.

I want Richmond to be an integrated community, but I can't imagine being a Police Officer or working at Richmond Hospital without speaking Cantonese.

These are very basic, but important issues.

I don't want Richmond's Chinese culture to become white-washed, I just don't want it segregated.

I want immigrants to be Chinese-Canadian, not Chinese people in Canada.

I don't think that's xenophobic or wrong.