Originally Posted by stewie (Post 8191217)

like lomac said, he brushed up his language skills before he went to germany and france. could he have gotten by without it? probably yeah....but its a simple thing called manners and respect for the country your in. just cause you can get by easily is no excuse not to, that just sounds pathetic and lazy on their part.

Originally Posted by twdm (Post 8191120)

The established culture in Richmond is now chinese restaurants and malls. You are coming into their city, not the other way around.

Your example is irrelevant by the way. Most people in France and Germany mainly speak French and German. People in richmond speak mainly Chinese with english as a secondary language. So by your logic people coming into Richmond should learn Chinese with english as a backup.
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Originally Posted by $_$ (Post 8191205)

And there we have it folks. There is the racism and xenophobia. Your words make it as clear as ever that you have always felt superior as a Canadian than those whom share this country.

Originally Posted by twdm (Post 8191235)

So I went to Cancun in the summer, but I didn't learn a single word of Spanish because the locals can communicate in English. According to you, I'm being disrespectful to the country I'm in?

Get your head outta your ass.

Originally Posted by stewie (Post 8191217)

like lomac said, he brushed up his language skills before he went to germany and france. could he have gotten by without it? probably yeah....but its a simple thing called manners and respect for the country your in. just cause you can get by easily is no excuse not to, that just sounds pathetic and lazy on their part.

Originally Posted by Lomac (Post 8191242)

Not gonna bother with quoting the whole portion of your post, but what's your take on the whole Quebec sign issue? Is it still racism if a white French Canadian is vandalizing a white English Canadian's storefront for not having French wording large enough on his sign?

Originally Posted by stewie (Post 8191217)

like lomac said, he brushed up his language skills before he went to germany and france. could he have gotten by without it? probably yeah....but its a simple thing called manners and respect for the country your in. just cause you can get by easily is no excuse not to, that just sounds pathetic and lazy on their part.

Originally Posted by stewie (Post 8191217)

why not compare? ive seen more than enough people do things that a 5 year old would do, such as pickign their noses in public and litterally FLICKING it at stores, blowing their noses without a kleenex onto sidewalks, spitting on sidewalks in the path of a person walking towards them that are less than 10 feet away, cross the street of a busy intersection when theres a fucking street light no more than 50 yards away....

Originally Posted by drunkrussian (Post 8191290)

Ulic should write tax code/legal documents/credit card agreements. Long, overly wordy, 97% irelevant, simple sentences, and you gotta scan it to try to find the spot that gets to the point

here's my response to this thread in ulic format

Assimilation is defined as adhering to the norms of a culture

there is no culture.

china is better than you and will soon be your neighbour.

When your neighbour is china, you are no longer its neighbour because you are no longer welcome and neighbours are welcoming.

Travel a bit nad you'll find it's about money power respect.

i make a lot of money but i am just a cog.

my goal is to be a boss.

like rick ross.

if rick ross was chinese he'd be superior.

china is rick ross on crack.

i am on crack.

Originally Posted by MindBomber (Post 8190419)

According to argument of racism and xenophobia:

A significant proportion of Chinese Canadians hold racist prejudices against other Chinese Canadians, which they project under the guise of assimilation. The notion of a person holding racist prejudices against their own ethnicity is absurd. Current Chinese Canadians support of the motion then must not be grounded in racism, but rather unbiased logic. The overwhelming majority of non-Chinese Canadians who support the motion employ the same unbiased logic, and are therefore not the racist or xenophobic either.

Originally Posted by MindBomber (Post 8190516)

I further argue:

Chinese Canadians support of the motion has been less contested than non-Chinese Canadians, because the former's support cannot be easily dismissed as racism and xenophobia. Non-Chinese Canadians then become the major proponents of the motion, but not necessarily because they're the most opposed.

Originally Posted by Ulic Qel-Droma (Post 8191375)

yeah but that's totally subjective. it's almost normal in china, although it's still considered low class and gross/rude.


you have to know that cultures are different. and they just do different shit differently.

you know when the white man first met the chinese man, they both thought of each other as fucking gross.

the yellow man, blowing his boogers and horking up loogies and spitting it on the side of the street, disguising.

the white man, blowing his boogers and horking up loogies and spitting it into a handkerchief, and then putting it back INTO his WARM pocket, where bacteria will fester and grow.

disguising! why would you put that shit in your pocket? it's way cleaner to spit it out onto the street.

see? who's right? u can't judge ppl on mannerisms. those are subjective.

Originally Posted by Ulic Qel-Droma (Post 8190728)

I was mistaken.

At first I thought people were just being ignorantly racist and xenophobic.
yes ignorantly racist. they don't even know they're doing it. They can't see it at all.

but i was wrong.

they're just fucking scared. deep down inside, they don't even know it. They're just pussies. trying to hold on to what little identity they have, not just because they already don't have much to hold on to, but because at the core of what they're made up of... they are full of fear. they operate based on an egocentric life style, where everything is always about "I" and so long as their "way" isn't being slowly entrenched or engulfed by another type of bubble, they feel safe and happy.


http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/27614568.jpg



i'm not gonna be polite and all nice about this shit any more.

you guys that are opposed to this are straight up being racist ignorant fuck heads.

you're so ignorant you don't even know it. you can't even fucking see it.

guess what, nothing we say can convince you. so i'll just say it the way it really is, and the one way you'll understand:


fuck you. too fucking bad. wah wah wah, cry me a fucking river.

you're going to be surrounded by chinese, and in the coming years, you'll be surrounded even more.

your kids are gonna be surrouded by chinese. he'll they're gonna have chinese girlfriends, and chinese friends, and eat chinese food, and probably read and speak a bit of chinese too.

wah wah wah, for once in your god damn westernized (i wanna say white but oh shit that's racist), you feel inferior, like someone else is stepping on your shit.

guess what, this shit was never yours to be stepped on in the first place. it's a resource. a resource that's passed around, and now it's passed onto someone else's hands.

the city council disagrees with you, the law disagrees with you, and the masses disagree with you.

if you wanna be surrounded by "white culture", go move to steveston or Langley (lol but in 10-15 years you'll be complaining that's too *insert non-Anglo-Saxon culture here*)


and please. stop with the "adapt to our culture".... OUR culture? what's OUR? WHO'S OUR?

what? everyone's gotta be a beer loving, ice skating, flannel wearing lumberjack? and jerk off to hockey players? drinking maple syrup while singing god save the queen?

give me a break.

as far as im concerned, "canadian culture" is the majority. it changes. you're the minority now. get a clue.

"learn english" because they're in CANADA? hello? with that attitude you should become a fucking yank and move down south to our imperialist retarded big brother.


the universe is borderless. no one has to learn anything in any country. if they can survive, they can survive. and so far they're surviving pretty good. oh.. wait, are you scared cuz you feel like on the survival ladder, you're lower now? cuz you can't adapt? cuz you're stuck with your ignorant fucking retarded way of thinking?

you've already lost the war. stop crying about it. hell it's not even a war. there was no fight to begin with. "your way" of life is dying. it's old. out with the old and in with the new.

go grow up to be grumpy old racist ignorant fucks somewhere else. or stay here, we don't mind.


bitch, money talks. if you were rich enough you would be living on the british properties or west vancouver, shit like this would never happen there, cuz white people there have money and power (slowly being taken over by the elite persians/iranians).


this isn't about logic, or some academic debate. no logic is needed.
all you have to know is, there's a lot of chinese, more than there are of you. they have much more money than you ever will. money is power and almost everything else you could wish for. the rest of the people around have to bend over and cater to them. that's all there is to it.

ANYWHERE you go, it's the same. it's just a shame that you thought you had your way before cuz of some cultural identity or cuz you claimed the land first or whatever fucking bullshit. no buddy, we live in a fucking dog eat dog world. whoever's got the money and bigger guns gets to do the talking and decision making. everyone else takes it up the ass or dies fighting. THE END.

Originally Posted by MindBomber (Post 8191379)

Again, I further argue:

Richmond's Chinese Canadian population is significant; in fact, they represent a greater proportion of the population there than anywhere else in the country. Richmond is not an independent city, though; it's inappropriate to view it as such. Richmond is part of the Lower Mainland; specifically, comprising 7.3% of its population. Other Lower Mainland cities have very different ethnic demographics. For example, Surrey's South Asian Canadian population is similarly significant to Richmond's Chinese Canadian population; Abbotsford's is as well. Surrey and Abbotsford represent 18% and 6.5% of the Lower Mainland's population, respectively. One would then expect, South Asian Canadians would be subject to equal or greater levels of supposed racism and xenophobia compared to Chinese Canadians. There have been no criticisms of South Asian Canadians, though. That observation, again establishes, racism and xenophobia are not to blame for the criticisms of a portion of Richmond's Chinese Canadian population. The criticisms are for reasons independent of race.

Are the opponents of the motion able to directly refute these points?

If not, I'll assume you accept them as sound.

This image is pertinent.

Originally Posted by dinosaur

See, you are clearly making is an "us" against "them" argument. I am not 'anti-chinese' signs. Fuck, make 99% of the fucking sign Chinese! I am in favour of that sign being translated into an official language for safety reasons.

Originally Posted by Valour (Post 8191219)

How about this new law. Every time u post, u have to add only 30% of ur dialogue to say how much you respect immigrant customs. Ok cut you a deal. Only 20% of ur post must expound your adoration of multiculturalism. In doing this you are respecting Canada. Also this is for "safety" reasons.
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Originally Posted by H.Specter (Post 8191394)

what you have just said, is the most insanely idiotic thing I have ever heard. At no point, in your rambling incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul.

Originally Posted by $_$ (Post 8191396)

They are and do. Surrey constantly gets criticized for their South Asian community do they not? On this very board South Asians are constantly called out for their "attitudes" and their "gangster wannabes." That's the criticism they receive. Some would say deservedly so.

Richmond's? Too Chinese.

And nobody goes to Surrey, Abby, or other parts of the lower mainland to shop and eat. Those places are suburbia towns with a comparatively low population density.

Originally Posted by Dinosaur See, you are clearly making is an "us" against "them" argument. I am not 'anti-chinese' signs. Fuck, make 99% of the fucking sign Chinese! I am in favour of that sign being translated into an official language for safety reasons.

Originally Posted by MindBomber (Post 8191436)

Emergency service personnel speaking and reading exclusively English might have extra difficulty finding businesses with strictly Chinese signage.

I'm not sure how their GPS systems and dispatch and such work.

Originally Posted by Ulic Qel-Droma (Post 8191458)

Vancouver Forum • View topic - Too many east indians work at the airport.

Denied entry to Surrey Christmas party for being East Indian, Herar speaks out | The Vancouver Observer

i found those in like 3 seconds.


don't be ignorant. just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

not everything requires logic and proof.

the matter of the fact is that, i don't think you, lomac, or dinosaur are on the same page as each other.

but you guys are in the same book. and you don't know it.

some of you guys are in worse chapters than others.


we aren't specifically talking about you either. we're talking about the people that raised the issue. and the people that posted in the province.

you have to understand, in this debate, specifically this thread, there is no middle ground.

there are only the two sides. and in this thread, you guy's clearly stand on the opposing side of the line. some closer than others.

if you wan't to take some politically correct logical neutral stance, this isn't the appropriate thread to do it.



recognize that this threads birth was sparked and fuelled by emotion. and it will end in emotion.

the biggest mistake anyone can make is, assuming that logic is a convincing tool.

Originally Posted by MarkyMark (Post 8191386)

Well one way blows snot and spit everywhere for me to step on or breathe in, the other way keeps it to himself. It's not like im gonna reach in his pocket and play with his handkerchief. If you need to spit do it where someone isn't going to walk directly into, especially if you see them coming your way. That hardly seems subjective to me.

Originally Posted by MindBomber (Post 8191379)

Again, I further argue:

Richmond's Chinese Canadian population is significant; in fact, they represent a greater proportion of the population there than anywhere else in the country. Richmond is not an independent city, though; it's inappropriate to view it as such. Richmond is part of the Lower Mainland; specifically, comprising 7.3% of its population. Other Lower Mainland cities have very different ethnic demographics. For example, Surrey's South Asian Canadian population is similarly significant to Richmond's Chinese Canadian population; Abbotsford's is as well. Surrey and Abbotsford represent 18% and 6.5% of the Lower Mainland's population, respectively. One would then expect, South Asian Canadians would be subject to equal or greater levels of supposed racism and xenophobia compared to Chinese Canadians. There have been no criticisms of South Asian Canadians, though. That observation, again establishes, racism and xenophobia are not to blame for the criticisms of a portion of Richmond's Chinese Canadian population. The criticisms are for reasons independent of race.

Are the opponents of the motion able to directly refute these points?

If not, I'll assume you accept them as sound.

This image is pertinent.

Originally Posted by MindBomber (Post 8191494)

Of course, South Asian Canadians do experience racism and xenophobia.

I wasn't implying that it's not existent, simply that its relatively uncommon.

I'll narrow a bit, for clarity.

Support of the motion is not uncommon on RS, it's prolific, and its blamed on racism and xenophobia against Chinese Canadians.

If racism and xenophobia is prolific against Chinese Canadians on RS, logically, it would be prolific against South Asian Canadians on the same bases by the same individuals.

That's not the case.

Therefore, racism and xenophobia cannot be the explanation for support.

Logic and reason is how my brain works, I realize that's not how others see things though.

Originally Posted by twdm (Post 8191505)

You really are clueless and pull random crap out of your ass. There are countless times where I see south asian seniors come into the hospital in Abbotsford and expect me to speak punjabi to them, or find someone who can speak punjabi. I am sure the other 50% caucasian staff have the same problem.

Don't even try to use this example as "See! You're annoyed with people who can't speak english too!"
The difference is, I'm providing the service and I tell them to find someone who speaks english. I refuse to be forced to learn punjabi when the hospital is clearly english speaking.

Likewise, a restaurant that is clearly chinese speaking shouldn't be forced to speak english to you. They have the right to say no, just as I had the right to say no. The expectation was clearly communicated before you entered the store.

Originally Posted by $_$ (Post 8191512)

No, that does not have to be the case. When I mentioned that Abby and Surrey are not retail cities, it's because people like you or dino or Lomac and those in support of this provision have little reason to go there. Therefore, what happens there has little effect on your life. But most likely you would come to Richmond at times and it frustrates those when they come that they cannot read some signs.


Based on what you have said - you would like ALL signs (including Hindi, Punjabi and Korean) signs to have English on them. That sentiment alone already screams xenophobia at me. You are trying to argue that "because I haven't ever made a comment about South Asians, how could I possibly be being xenophobic/racist here?" But you want all signs to have English - so how does that not affect the South Asians also? We are only talking about the Chinese because that's what's brought up here. But the sentiment that's shared by those for the provision are shared by everything that's NOT English. That in itself in a country where we are free to speak and conduct our business in whatever language we want to already shows xenophobia. I don't need to prove that you are xenophobic to two different cultures to try to show you that you are exhibiting symptoms of xenophobia.

Originally Posted by $_$ (Post 8191541)

Source: Xenophobia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the exact argument that many of you have used: You fear that you will lose the Canadian identity due to this. Because of this insecurity, you want to "secure and make sure English is on all signs". But notice how quickly that was striked down as it was put forward in government? Because you are basically showing the people that you are intolerant.

Originally Posted by Valour (Post 8191563)

The sign by law can be summarized as this "You cannot freely express your signage unless you pay tribute to my culture and heritage(English")
This is a restriction on freedom of expression. As currently stands these people have the right to solely put chinese on the signs. You are advocating to take away their right to do so. The caveat of only allowing that right with the homage to English creates the cultural conflict in question. This conflict can be perceived as racist.

Because you advocate for this racist policy you are perceived as racist.

If you can't understand this it is probably because you cannot empathize with the people you are trying to take the rights away from.