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Old 08-14-2013, 10:33 AM   #26
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Most other card-based systems allow you to run a negative balance up to a certain amount.

Why can't we just wait until the testing is done? People who design these systems aren't idiots and probably have thought up of all the problems.
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Old 08-14-2013, 10:35 AM   #27
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Can we all do a solid? Find interesting article, READ IT, and not get upset at what we think the ramifications are but what we know the ramifications are.

You can transfer all you want. IF YOU HAVE A COMPASS CARD

If you are getting onto the bus and pay a cash fare, the bus will not be able to produce a compass card for you.

I personally don't want them to spend $25 million for that! I'm with translink!

What does all this mean?

-For the daily heavy user, they are going to have a monthly pass compass card and it won't affect them.

-For the casual to heavy rider, they are going to have a compass card in their wallet, and it won't affect them.

-For the light transit user that has a compass card with a balance, it STILL won't affect them.

-For the guy that never uses transit, and hops on a bus after throwing some change in the thing and expects to get on the train, he'll do it once and then get a damned card.

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Old 08-14-2013, 10:38 AM   #28
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Can we all do a solid? Find interesting article, READ IT, and not get upset at what we think the ramifications are but what we know the ramifications are.

You can transfer all you want. IF YOU HAVE A COMPASS CARD

If you are getting onto the bus and pay a cash fare, the bus will not be able to produce a compass card for you.

I personally don't want them to spend $25 million for that! I'm with translink!

What does all this mean? For the daily heavy user, they are going to have a monthly pass compass card and it won't affect them.

For the casual to heavy rider, they are going to have a compass card in their wallet, and it won't affect them.

For the light transit user that has a compass card with a balance, it STILL won't affect them.

For the guy that never uses transit, and hops on a bus after throwing some change in the thing and expects to get on the train, he'll do it once and then get a damned card.
You forgot toruist and the people on welfare or the bums or low income people.
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Old 08-14-2013, 10:38 AM   #29
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Can we all do a solid? Find interesting article, READ IT, and not get upset at what we think the ramifications are but what we know the ramifications are.

You can transfer all you want. IF YOU HAVE A COMPASS CARD

If you are getting onto the bus and pay a cash fare, the bus will not be able to produce a compass card for you.

I personally don't want them to spend $25 million for that! I'm with translink!

What does all this mean? For the daily heavy user, they are going to have a monthly pass compass card and it won't affect them.

For the casual to heavy rider, they are going to have a compass card in their wallet, and it won't affect them.

For the light transit user that has a compass card with a balance, it STILL won't affect them.

For the guy that never uses transit, and hops on a bus after throwing some change in the thing and expects to get on the train, he'll do it once and then get a damned card.
Sorry dude, your post makes too much sense. Please delete it. It does not belong on RS.
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Old 08-14-2013, 10:41 AM   #30
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You forgot toruist and the people on welfare or the bums or low income people.
Please, explain what would prevent said people from acquiring a compass card?
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Old 08-14-2013, 10:47 AM   #31
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You forgot toruist and the people on welfare or the bums or low income people.
I thought bums get to use transit for free?
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Old 08-14-2013, 10:54 AM   #32
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You forgot toruist and the people on welfare or the bums or low income people.
When I go to London, I have no problem putting a deposit on an Oyster card because it will save me a ton of money. I have an NYC Metro card at home for my next visit to NYC.

We shouldn't have to hold hands for people. Whenever I'm a tourist, I do my research ahead of time to determine the cheapest way to travel around the city.
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Old 08-14-2013, 10:56 AM   #33
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Please, explain what would prevent said people from acquiring a compass card?
Well you arrive at a city as a trouist don't know a thing about the whole cmpact pass. Gets on the bus and pays and when you arrive at the skytrain then you realize you can't use the ticket you got form the bus on the skytrain. Now someone tells you, you need a compact pass. Whould you be mad or wish the bus driver would tell you or at least have something on the bus or at least when you pay at the bus that you will be told about the whole compact bus thing?

The low income or whose living in sub housing a lot of the times the front desk at the sub housing will give the people there a bus faire if they need it to get another place.
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Old 08-14-2013, 11:11 AM   #34
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Couldn't you get a Compass and transfer you're papers transfer funds on to it?
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Old 08-14-2013, 11:12 AM   #35
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Well you arrive at a city as a trouist don't know a thing about the whole cmpact pass. Gets on the bus and pays and when you arrive at the skytrain then you realize you can't use the ticket you got form the bus on the skytrain. Now someone tells you, you need a compact pass. Whould you be mad or wish the bus driver would tell you or at least have something on the bus or at least when you pay at the bus that you will be told about the whole compact bus thing?

The low income or whose living in sub housing a lot of the times the front desk at the sub housing will give the people there a bus faire if they need it to get another place.
I would think. " wow I'm a fucking idiot who traveled to a different country without doing any research."
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Old 08-14-2013, 11:14 AM   #36
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When I go to London, I have no problem putting a deposit on an Oyster card because it will save me a ton of money. I have an NYC Metro card at home for my next visit to NYC.

We shouldn't have to hold hands for people. Whenever I'm a tourist, I do my research ahead of time to determine the cheapest way to travel around the city.
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Translink already charges extra for people paying for fares at the airports. Tourists don't pay as much taxes as we do here, I see no problem having them pay more for a system that we subsidize with our gas tax, etc.
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Old 08-14-2013, 11:21 AM   #37
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Well you arrive at a city as a trouist don't know a thing about the whole cmpact pass. Gets on the bus and pays and when you arrive at the skytrain then you realize you can't use the ticket you got form the bus on the skytrain. Now someone tells you, you need a compact pass. Whould you be mad or wish the bus driver would tell you or at least have something on the bus or at least when you pay at the bus that you will be told about the whole compact bus thing?

The low income or whose living in sub housing a lot of the times the front desk at the sub housing will give the people there a bus faire if they need it to get another place.
I don't particularly care about either group.

Tourists: No one going to a foreign city as a visitor expects to have intimate knowledge of their transportation system. In fact, with our new system being used at so many other places, it should actually be easier for them. Next, if they have come to the most expensive city in the world on vacation/business...the extra $4 burn on skytrain is the least of their concerns.

Homeless/Low Income: They have the unique ways of getting things done based on not really caring what others think. Say what you want, they are highly adaptable. If there is a loophole in the system, they'll find it and spread the word. Besides, most will just let them on the bus to keep from having an issue.
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Old 08-14-2013, 11:34 AM   #38
 
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same process in japan as well actually, except most buses are now fitted with the card system. imo they need to do the compass cards in buses too other wise its kinda pointless. biggest problem though is the fare system, they need to get rid of the zone system and create a system that goes by distance. in theory going from metrotown to joyce or bridgeport to marine shouldn't be $4
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Old 08-14-2013, 11:34 AM   #39
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Well you arrive at a city as a trouist don't know a thing about the whole cmpact pass. Gets on the bus and pays and when you arrive at the skytrain then you realize you can't use the ticket you got form the bus on the skytrain. Now someone tells you, you need a compact pass. Whould you be mad or wish the bus driver would tell you or at least have something on the bus or at least when you pay at the bus that you will be told about the whole compact bus thing?

The low income or whose living in sub housing a lot of the times the front desk at the sub housing will give the people there a bus faire if they need it to get another place.
Compass card, not compact pass.
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Old 08-14-2013, 11:38 AM   #40
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You forgot toruist and the people on welfare or the bums or low income people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp View Post
Well you arrive at a city as a trouist don't know a thing about the whole cmpact pass. Gets on the bus and pays and when you arrive at the skytrain then you realize you can't use the ticket you got form the bus on the skytrain. Now someone tells you, you need a compact pass. Whould you be mad or wish the bus driver would tell you or at least have something on the bus or at least when you pay at the bus that you will be told about the whole compact bus thing?

The low income or whose living in sub housing a lot of the times the front desk at the sub housing will give the people there a bus faire if they need it to get another place.
Tourist..?
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Old 08-14-2013, 11:46 AM   #41
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same process in japan as well actually, except most buses are now fitted with the card system. imo they need to do the compass cards in buses too other wise its kinda pointless. biggest problem though is the fare system, they need to get rid of the zone system and create a system that goes by distance. in theory going from metrotown to joyce or bridgeport to marine shouldn't be $4
The zone system should be replace ages ago. Why it cost the same for someone traveling from New West to Waterfront Vs. Patterson to Joyce?
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Old 08-14-2013, 11:53 AM   #42
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and why is everyone getting all in a panic when the changes to the system actually involves change?

Translink told everyone that would listen the problems with fare gates in their beautiful haiku to the city:

Fare gates look pretty
Never be paid for by use
City dumb to buy
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Old 08-14-2013, 11:59 AM   #43
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HAHAHAHAAHAHAHA this is awesome, I love it when people bitch and whine and moan that "Oh, they should do it THIS way", and then when that finally comes about and things don't work they way they used to, then they bitch and whine and moan that the old way was better.

Everyone griped endlessly about the zone system and "ooo, we should have a card that just deducts from your account, like they have in <insert foreign country>!" Okay, well you have your fuggen card system now, and things have to work differently... and you don't like it. STFU.

Same fuggen thing happened with the cell companies and three-year contracts - "consumer groups" managed to get things changed to get rid and three-year contracts, and guess what? Plan prices are going up. Nice work, fuckheads.

I can't wait to see what the next not-perfect-but-still-pretty-good thing gets fucked up by these whiny "I want everything and I want it now and I want it free" pricks.
The problem here is, all of the different Translink mediums (buses, Skytrains / Canada Line, Seabus) has always worked as a single integrated system for transit users. You pay the right amount once, and you can use all the different modes of transportation however you want within the valid duration of your ticket. There are discounts available depending on how you pay your fare, but it is still a single integrated payment and ridership system. This has been the norm for as long as I can remember (easily 25+ years). And now Translink is saying "screw you" to all the cash paying riders.

People are not necessarily fuming because they have to pay extra to take the Skytrain; they are fuming because of stupidity and poor planning that Translink has once again displayed. Vancouver is not the mass transit-centric city that Hong Kong, Seoul, or Japan is. In those cities, practically everyone carries a public transit payment-capable smart card. Metro Vancouver is certainly moving more towards public transit, but cars will continue to be the primary mode of transportation for the majority of residents here. Not everyone will have a Compass Card, and not everyone will remember to always carry their Compass Card. To fracturing the long established integrated system is illogical, and creates an inconvenience for users. This is why people are fuming.
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Old 08-14-2013, 11:59 AM   #44
 
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considering the fee for a 3zone for skytrain, its 5.50. as an example expo line could easily be changed to by distance/station. as the expo line has 20 stop its easy to calculate to say 30cents a station(farfetched as it would be a big money loss to translink) or $1 minimum fee good for the first 5 stops and an increase of a dollar after every 5 stops. for those who live close to work but drive, it provides and even cheaper option. while those who generally travel farther may receive a bit of a break or pay basically the same.
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Old 08-14-2013, 12:01 PM   #45
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this is a transition to something bigger. the cash payers and "forgetful people" will suffer, while the people that carry compass cards will not. get with the times. update yourself. become better.
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Old 08-14-2013, 12:02 PM   #46
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same process in japan as well actually, except most buses are now fitted with the card system. imo they need to do the compass cards in buses too other wise its kinda pointless. biggest problem though is the fare system, they need to get rid of the zone system and create a system that goes by distance. in theory going from metrotown to joyce or bridgeport to marine shouldn't be $4
Yep, it should. On the other hand, travelling from Langley to Vancouver should cost far more than $5.50.

But if you have no data on how far and how frequently people are travelling on the system, is it a good idea to arbitrarily create a distance-pricing scheme that may hurt more people than benefit? Do people take decisions based on instinct, or do they make them with some evidence and research?

This is why the zone system is unfortunately staying for now until there's enough data to transition to distance-based pricing.
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Old 08-14-2013, 12:07 PM   #47
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I think that's part of the benefits of going to a pass card, so they can determine which routes are utilized the most and price distance appropriately. Well, I'm not sure if they did it by sales before, or if at all with the paper transfers. It would be stupid if they couldn't get usage data with Compass cards in this day in age.

http://compassbetatest.com/en/Fares-.../Benefits.aspx

"Efficient
All the data as customers tap in and tap out with their Compass Cards and tickets will be combined to help TransLink deliver transit services at times and on routes that serve more people more effectively and efficiently."

Too bad this thread didn't come up sooner, I reminded me of the Compassbetatest, but the deadline to sign up was Aug 9th.
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Old 08-14-2013, 12:09 PM   #48
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People are not necessarily fuming because they have to pay extra to take the Skytrain; they are fuming because of stupidity and poor planning that Translink has once again displayed. Vancouver is not the mass transit-centric city that Hong Kong, Seoul, or Japan is. In those cities, practically everyone carries a public transit payment-capable smart card. Metro Vancouver is certainly moving more towards public transit, but cars will continue to be the primary mode of transportation for the majority of residents here. Not everyone will have a Compass Card, and not everyone will remember to always carry their Compass Card. To fracturing the long established integrated system is illogical, and creates an inconvenience for users. This is why people are fuming.
Don't take this personally, but this is the type of attitude that makes me want to leave this part of the world sometimes. Vancouver thinks its a big city, but its residents have such a small world mentality sometimes.

This change to a card-based system makes sense on SO many levels, yet people are so parochial and resistant to anything that might require them to adapt that they moan and complain.

Cash users should pay more - that is the case in virtually every other transit system in the world. People want incentives to take transit, right? The incentive is the Compass card: you can add to it online, not worry about change, and save a bit of money in the process. Sounds like a great deal to me. We all carry wallets, bags, etc - what's another card going to do?
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Old 08-14-2013, 12:22 PM   #49
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Don't take this personally, but this is the type of attitude that makes me want to leave this part of the world sometimes. Vancouver thinks its a big city, but its residents have such a small world mentality sometimes.

This change to a card-based system makes sense on SO many levels, yet people are so parochial and resistant to anything that might require them to adapt that they moan and complain.

Cash users should pay more - that is the case in virtually every other transit system in the world. People want incentives to take transit, right? The incentive is the Compass card: you can add to it online, not worry about change, and save a bit of money in the process. Sounds like a great deal to me. We all carry wallets, bags, etc - what's another card going to do?
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I completely agree that cash users should pay more. The incentive is to drive them towards using the Compass Card. There is no dispute about that at all.

The problem right now is, if I pay cash to hop onto a bus, my transfer is still good for transferring to other buses. But it is not valid on the Skytrain. The whole Metro Vancouver public transit system has always been a single integrated system that allows (and encourages) vehicle transfers. But now my cash-paid bus transfer is only good for other buses. This breaks from the long established norm of how the public transit system operates in the Lower Mainland.

Again, people are not necessarily upset about paying more. Cash users are expected to pay more. They know that, and they are fine with it. People are upset now because they are going to find themselves in situations where they have already paid for a service, but will get charged again for using the same service. This makes no sense, and they are upset because it makes no sense.
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Old 08-14-2013, 12:24 PM   #50
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People who think ahead have always had a discount though. Faresaver tickets have been around for a long time, and if you prepay for them - you get a discount (you save $0.65 for a 1 zone). Now you get a discount if you prepay for compass - I don't see a big issue with it.

Cash users on a bus also add a lot of added time that a bus needs to wait. Everyone else will just walk on and tap.
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