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Old 08-14-2013, 12:26 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp View Post
Well you arrive at a city as a trouist don't know a thing about the whole cmpact pass. Gets on the bus and pays and when you arrive at the skytrain then you realize you can't use the ticket you got form the bus on the skytrain. Now someone tells you, you need a compact pass. Whould you be mad or wish the bus driver would tell you or at least have something on the bus or at least when you pay at the bus that you will be told about the whole compact bus thing?

The low income or whose living in sub housing a lot of the times the front desk at the sub housing will give the people there a bus faire if they need it to get another place.
I will not reiterate what Tapioca's said. Your tourist argument is invalid.

A low income person may acquire a compass card to have the aforementioned bus fair loaded onto. Once again, your argument is invalid.

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Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp View Post
The zone system should be replace ages ago. Why it cost the same for someone traveling from New West to Waterfront Vs. Patterson to Joyce?
Introducing a compass card is a phase in replacing the zone system with a distance based system.

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Originally Posted by i-VTEC View Post
My friend who works at the hospital and they have group employee transit pass, it will be canceled due the compass pass. I wonder will they also cancel UPass? haha
The employee pass program (EEP) and the U-Pass program operated on significantly different standards.

In the case of U-Pass programs, student unions arrange contracts with Translink that ensure a minimum of 95% of a student body will participate in the program. Nine student unions currently participate to a total of 160,000 issued U-Passes.

While in the case of EEP programs, workplaces with over 25 employees were able to register to Translink to participate in the program. 250 employers had been participating to a total of 25,000 passes issued.

The U-Pass program is largely profitable and otherwise effective, despite the deep discount.

The EEP program lost a significant amount of money and was not especially effective.

Therefore, suggesting the cancellation of EEP may be a sign the cancellation of U-Pass is imminent is pure folly.
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Old 08-14-2013, 12:27 PM   #52
 
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Yep, it should. On the other hand, travelling from Langley to Vancouver should cost far more than $5.50.

But if you have no data on how far and how frequently people are travelling on the system, is it a good idea to arbitrarily create a distance-pricing scheme that may hurt more people than benefit? Do people take decisions based on instinct, or do they make them with some evidence and research?

This is why the zone system is unfortunately staying for now until there's enough data to transition to distance-based pricing.
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Yup, but what convenient translink options are there from langley to downtown? Unfortunately the way translink is planned, its piss poor. Buses are becoming slower, rarely ever on time. While adding extra buses may seem like an answer the real problem is the amount of traffic on the streets. The lower mainland has grown at roughly 10% since 2006 and vancouver is the most condensed population in canada. Basically a need to force people off the streets and into transit is needed, like tolls. Yet to do this new transit structures are needed first, meaning the gov and translink need to take on big projects to complete a few new things, say a light rail along hwy 1 and a few new skytrain routes within lower mainland. IN THE FUTURE AS OBVIOUSLY INSTANT CONSTRUCTION OF BILLION DOLLAR PROJECTS ARE NOT FEASIBLE ( thought id edit in the obvious for someone) . I fully suspect they will see a loss in customers due to the new fair problem and then they complain about lost fairs.(casual ones)
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Old 08-14-2013, 12:39 PM   #53
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im still a bit confused here, I take transit at most...twice a year...

so in order to get onto a skytrain, you swipe your card, it deducts a 3 zone fare, and when you swipe it again, your refunded if you only stayed in 1-2 zones??

what happens if I scan the card, walk through the gate, realize I forgot something (lets say the metro/24hr newspapers in the bins outside), scan the card again to get out and again to get in...there would be no money deducted there?

if so whats stopping me from getting 2 compass pass cards and scan 1 at a surrey gate to enter, travel to the end of the line, and scan the 2nd card at waterfront, and on my return, use the same card I used for waterfront to get back in and the same card from in surrey?? would it register as me being in the same zone at the same location and not deduct any money? or does it have some time limit where your given a grace period of like 10 minutes to leave and re enter(I could still see that being a problem as lots of people forget things and have to quickly trek back to the car and grab something and trek back and hope they've made it in time or else they have to pay again).

adding on to what dbaz said about the busses being slower and slower and rarely on time, IF I were to take a bus and train from my gf's house in maple ridge to my house in Burnaby, the bus near her house only comes once every hour, and if its late, I miss the next bus which is another bus that only comes once every 30 minutes, taking it to coq bus loop only to wait for another bus to take me to lougheed then skytrain back to brentwood and bus home from there....

cmon...I know its a bit of a distance, but it shouldn't have to take 3hours to take transit there and 3 back. id love to see more skytrain lines put up for the tri cities, but by the time they've finished all the construction...it would be at the point where im ready to retire and could care less about it anymore.

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Old 08-14-2013, 12:40 PM   #54
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Yup, but what convenient translink options are there from langley to downtown? Unfortunately the way translink is planned, its piss poor. Buses are becoming slower, rarely ever on time. While adding extra buses may seem like an answer the real problem is the amount of traffic on the streets. The lower mainland is growing at roughly 10% a year and vancouver is the most condensed population in canada. Basically a need to force people off the streets and into transit is needed, like tolls. Yet to do this new transit structures are needed first, meaning the gov and translink need to take on big projects to complete a few new things, say a light rail along hwy 1 and a few new skytrain routes within lower mainland. Basically, they are unable to do anything properly (much like the compass passes not being able to be used on buses) and its all doomed to receive harsh criticism. I fully suspect they will see a loss in customers due to the new fair problem and then they complain about lost fairs.
These are all valid criticisms of Translink and the state of transit inrastrucuture. However, building new light-rail lines costs money - money which Translink does not have and money it cannot raise because people will not pay higher property taxes, and people (including you, me, and everyone else on RS) continue to go down south to fill up which deprives Translink of gas tax revenue. And as I have consistently argued on this and other threads, there is very little that can be done to make the organization more efficient (like axing managers or getting rid of the bus drivers union) unless people are willing to put up with a significant reduction in service.

Where you and I disagree is that people will stop taking transit following the introduction of the Compass card. This change affects casual users - not frequent users. I would argue that this change benefits frequent users because they can fill their cards from home. I won't repeat what Gridlock said earlier.
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Old 08-14-2013, 12:45 PM   #55
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im still a bit confused here, I take transit at most...twice a year...

so in order to get onto a skytrain, you swipe your card, it deducts a 3 zone fare, and when you swipe it again, your refunded if you only stayed in 1-2 zones??

what happens if I scan the card, walk through the gate, realize I forgot something (lets say the metro/24hr newspapers in the bins outside), scan the card again to get out and again to get in...there would be no money deducted there?

if so whats stopping me from getting 2 compass pass cards and scan 1 at a surrey gate to enter, travel to the end of the line, and scan the 2nd card at waterfront, and on my return, use the same card I used for waterfront to get back in and the same card from in surrey?? would it register as me being in the same zone at the same location and not deduct any money? or does it have some time limit where your given a grace period of like 10 minutes to leave and re enter(I could still see that being a problem as lots of people forget things and have to quickly trek back to the car and grab something and trek back and hope they've made it in time or else they have to pay again).
Yep, the card will refund the appropriate amount depending where you get off.

The current grace period is 20 minutes. I read this on Translink's Buzzer blog.
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Old 08-14-2013, 12:48 PM   #56
 
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I agree it benefits frequent users and is indeed a smart move in that term. I'm just saying, knowing vancouver, the casuals will stop and translink will complain because of it.

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if so whats stopping me from getting 2 compass pass cards and scan 1 at a surrey gate to enter, travel to the end of the line, and scan the 2nd card at waterfront, and on my return, use the same card I used for waterfront to get back in and the same card from in surrey?? would it register as me being in the same zone at the same location and not deduct any money? or does it have some time limit where your given a grace period of like 10 minutes to leave and re enter(I could still see that being a problem as lots of people forget things and have to quickly trek back to the car and grab something and trek back and hope they've made it in time or else they have to pay again).
If they do the system correctly, it will be no charge.


V yea, just re read translinks site. ivtec post had me thinking it was scrapped
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Old 08-14-2013, 12:51 PM   #57
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I agree it benefits frequent users and is indeed a smart move in that terms, I'm just saying, knowing vancouver, the casuals will stop and translink will complain because of it. I do think the compass pass needs to be useable on buses though, as many people who use the skytrain, also use a bus.



If they do the system correctly, it will be no charge.
The Compass is usuable on buses which is why they have readers at the front and the back. Users are supposed to tap when they enter and when they leave. However, people will probably forget to tap when they leave and will be charged the full fare. And the media will make a big thing about it when really people will have only themselves to blame.
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Old 08-14-2013, 12:52 PM   #58
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im still a bit confused here, I take transit at most...twice a year...

so in order to get onto a skytrain, you swipe your card, it deducts a 3 zone fare, and when you swipe it again, your refunded if you only stayed in 1-2 zones??

what happens if I scan the card, walk through the gate, realize I forgot something (lets say the metro/24hr newspapers in the bins outside), scan the card again to get out and again to get in...there would be no money deducted there?

if so whats stopping me from getting 2 compass pass cards and scan 1 at a surrey gate to enter, travel to the end of the line, and scan the 2nd card at waterfront, and on my return, use the same card I used for waterfront to get back in and the same card from in surrey?? would it register as me being in the same zone at the same location and not deduct any money? or does it have some time limit where your given a grace period of like 10 minutes to leave and re enter(I could still see that being a problem as lots of people forget things and have to quickly trek back to the car and grab something and trek back and hope they've made it in time or else they have to pay again).
Hopefully the system can differentiate when you enter a station and when you exit... That way you won't be able to "exit" a station if the card hasn't registered an "entrance" yet.

They would need to set up "entrance" and "exit" Compass Card scanners though - and I wouldn't be surprised if Translink hasn't thought this out yet!
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Old 08-14-2013, 01:00 PM   #59
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I can definitely see casual users dropping Translink. If I'm with some buddies heading downtown and it costs me $3 for the bus and another $3 for the train, I might as well just cab at that point. I just need one other person with me to make the cost worthwhile.

I don't think people who take transit maybe twice a month will bother with keeping a card constantly loaded and in their wallet. Especially now that a ton of people are just using card wallets. I'm hoping they build an app for NFC capable phones quickly and accept mobile payments. First world problem, but I really don't want to carry an extra card that I probably don't need but have to carry so that I don't get charged double the price.

I'm all for charging more for convenience but this sounds more like "we forgot this use case so here's this kludgy ass workaround instead" than something that was intentionally planned. It doesn't feel seamless like a modern transportation system should, IMO.
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Old 08-14-2013, 01:06 PM   #60
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Hopefully the system can differentiate when you enter a station and when you exit... That way you won't be able to "exit" a station if the card hasn't registered an "entrance" yet.

They would need to set up "entrance" and "exit" Compass Card scanners though - and I wouldn't be surprised if Translink hasn't thought this out yet!
A system that costs millions to implement....and i bett it'll only take a few cheap highschool kids who don't want to pay to figure a way to scam the systems lol
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Old 08-14-2013, 01:08 PM   #61
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Hopefully the system can differentiate when you enter a station and when you exit... That way you won't be able to "exit" a station if the card hasn't registered an "entrance" yet.

They would need to set up "entrance" and "exit" Compass Card scanners though - and I wouldn't be surprised if Translink hasn't thought this out yet!
Hoep they won't!
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Old 08-14-2013, 01:10 PM   #62
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fuck transit , will never take that shit.

Never stepped foot in one since 08
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Old 08-14-2013, 01:13 PM   #63
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You forgot toruist and the people on welfare or the bums or low income people.
that's the tourists fault... when i visit another country i research how their system works.

i dont see how people with low income or welfare are not able to pick up a compass card?

as for bums well....
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Old 08-14-2013, 01:33 PM   #64
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I can definitely see casual users dropping Translink. If I'm with some buddies heading downtown and it costs me $3 for the bus and another $3 for the train, I might as well just cab at that point. I just need one other person with me to make the cost worthwhile.

I don't think people who take transit maybe twice a month will bother with keeping a card constantly loaded and in their wallet. Especially now that a ton of people are just using card wallets. I'm hoping they build an app for NFC capable phones quickly and accept mobile payments. First world problem, but I really don't want to carry an extra card that I probably don't need but have to carry so that I don't get charged double the price.

I'm all for charging more for convenience but this sounds more like "we forgot this use case so here's this kludgy ass workaround instead" than something that was intentionally planned. It doesn't feel seamless like a modern transportation system should, IMO.
The casual user will easily be helped by the compass. The casual user is often foiled from using transit by two things: Lack of change, or lack of tickets.

Having a compass card in your wallet (or a transponder on your keychain or however they do it), will mean that people can load up their card with 10 fares (like they do now with tickets) and completely forget about it until they stumble out of a bar and need to get home. As it stands, many of those people would now hail a cab or risk getting home. But with the convenience of a compass transponder...


Also: As Grid and Bomber and several others have pointed out, there are some misunderstandings about the article.

Every form of translink transport will be able to use the compass to transfer in and out of.
If you get on the skytrain, you will be issued a compass-compatible passcard which can be taken onto the bus.
If you get on the bus, you will get a transfer ticket (the same as the ones we get now) which are NOT compatible with Compass systems.

Take a look at this handy chart:

Cash -> Bus -> Seabus
Cash -> Bus -> Skytrain

Cash -> Skytrain -> Bus
Cash -> Skytrain -> Seabus
Cash -> Seabus -> Skytrain
Cash -> Seabus -> Bus
Compass -> Bus -> Skytrain
Compass -> Bus -> Seabus
Compass -> Skytrain -> Bus
Compass -> Skytrain -> Seabus
Compass -> Seabus -> Skytrain
Compass -> Seabus -> Bus
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Old 08-14-2013, 01:37 PM   #65
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Yup, but what convenient translink options are there from langley to downtown? Unfortunately the way translink is planned, its piss poor. Buses are becoming slower, rarely ever on time. While adding extra buses may seem like an answer the real problem is the amount of traffic on the streets. The lower mainland is growing at roughly 10% a year and vancouver is the most condensed population in canada. Basically a need to force people off the streets and into transit is needed, like tolls. Yet to do this new transit structures are needed first, meaning the gov and translink need to take on big projects to complete a few new things, say a light rail along hwy 1 and a few new skytrain routes within lower mainland. Basically, they are unable to do anything properly (much like the compass passes not being able to be used on buses) and its all doomed to receive harsh criticism. I fully suspect they will see a loss in customers due to the new fair problem and then they complain about lost fairs.
I don't mean this personally dude, but this is the most retarded thing posted in this thread.

Let me help you out.

Quote:
(much like the compass passes not being able to be used on buses)
Right there, your entire post is shit because you didn't read the article, you didn't understand the problem and therefore, your opinion on the solution is invalid.

The issue, once again is:

THERE IS NO SYSTEM BEING INSTALLED THAT CAN CONVERT A CASH FARE PAID ON A BUS TO A TRANSFER THAT WILL BE RECOGNIZED ON THE SKYTRAIN.

So you might ask, "Gridlock man, won't that cause FUCKING CHAOS?"

And I'd say no! Dbaz it really won't. Cash fares looking for transfer to the train system are a small portion of the overall fares collected. As people become more familiar with the new system, the numbers of people affected will be small.


-Unfortunately the way translink is planned, its piss poor.
-meaning the gov and translink need to take on big projects to complete a few new things, say a light rail along hwy 1 and a few new skytrain routes within lower mainland.
-unable to do anything properly
-Buses are becoming slower, rarely ever on time.

Well hey kids! Here's the fucking answer. Have a billion dollar blow out on infrastructure and get your head out of your ass.

Why didn't Translink think of that? Just build a to-the-tits system, the classic champagne taste on a beer budget and do it all now. I want a skytrain system right at my door with a seat labeled "dbaz" waiting for me.

Come on man.

I'm sure that Toronto, Calgary and Montreal wouldn't see that kind of spend going down on the west coast and want their slice AT ALL. So that won't add up fast or anything.

But fuck it, in our world, its all free baby.
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Old 08-14-2013, 01:52 PM   #66
 
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Hey mr big shot, did you read my post later on where I said that ivtec's post had me thinking that the compass system on buses was scrapped? I bet you didnt. You just love calling out people and flexing your fucking epeen all over this site. At least I corrected my misunderstanding in a later post, while you just fucking go straight at a person. Also did I say that that type of transit system had to immediately be started? No, of course I realize this shit costs money and that money doesnt grow on trees, but in a metropolis that is rapidly growing, these systems are needed in the future
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Old 08-14-2013, 01:55 PM   #67
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Old 08-14-2013, 01:57 PM   #68
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Yup, but what convenient translink options are there from langley to downtown?
Catch the 555 from the Carvolth exchange to Braid Station and continue to DT via the Skytrain. Langley to DT takes about 45 minutes.
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Old 08-14-2013, 01:58 PM   #69
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Well, when I said I don't mean this personally, I meant it.

But thanks for the new quote for my sig.

I do, by the way, love calling people out all over this site. I'd flex my real penis over this site too if it was socially acceptable.
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Old 08-14-2013, 02:01 PM   #70
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heres a simple solution

take those fucking fare readers that are on busses, and tie them in at skytrains beside the compass pass scanner.

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I do, by the way, love calling people out all over this site. I'd flex my real penis over this site too if it was socially acceptable.
i think you should try it face to face, see how hard you can flex your "peen" then
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Old 08-14-2013, 02:08 PM   #71
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I don't mean this personally dude, but this is the most retarded thing posted in this thread.

Let me help you out.



Right there, your entire post is shit because you didn't read the article, you didn't understand the problem and therefore, your opinion on the solution is invalid.

The issue, once again is:

THERE IS NO SYSTEM BEING INSTALLED THAT CAN CONVERT A CASH FARE PAID ON A BUS TO A TRANSFER THAT WILL BE RECOGNIZED ON THE SKYTRAIN.

So you might ask, "Gridlock man, won't that cause FUCKING CHAOS?"

And I'd say no! Dbaz it really won't. Cash fares looking for transfer to the train system are a small portion of the overall fares collected. As people become more familiar with the new system, the numbers of people affected will be small.


-Unfortunately the way translink is planned, its piss poor.
-meaning the gov and translink need to take on big projects to complete a few new things, say a light rail along hwy 1 and a few new skytrain routes within lower mainland.
-unable to do anything properly
-Buses are becoming slower, rarely ever on time.

Well hey kids! Here's the fucking answer. Have a billion dollar blow out on infrastructure and get your head out of your ass.

Why didn't Translink think of that? Just build a to-the-tits system, the classic champagne taste on a beer budget and do it all now. I want a skytrain system right at my door with a seat labeled "dbaz" waiting for me.

Come on man.

I'm sure that Toronto, Calgary and Montreal wouldn't see that kind of spend going down on the west coast and want their slice AT ALL. So that won't add up fast or anything.

But fuck it, in our world, its all free baby.
I agree. Translink needs to go all out and everywhere.

... There's an article to read?
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Old 08-14-2013, 02:28 PM   #72
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The lower mainland is growing at roughly 10% a year
This is an excellent statistic.

Too bad it isn't even remotely close to being true!

When you beak off about erroneous things, it is hard to take anything else you say seriously.

Average growth rate for the Lower Mainland averages between 1% and 2% yearly.

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Old 08-14-2013, 02:34 PM   #73
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A bunch of morons work as the Translink management.


It's not this bus transfers issue that's another problem with the compass card and gate system. Some stations only have four gates available.

Imagine the herds of commuters lining up to go through those gates.

Do these Translink managers spend their time smoking crack and drinking at work like Rob Ford? Unbelievable.

This issue is just another reason for me to keep driving to work.
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Old 08-14-2013, 02:35 PM   #74
 
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Indeed it was 10% since 2006 . I reread the article but didnt edit my original post as your "better" half knows already in regards to buses and the compass card. I dont know what we'd ever do without you two on this forum...
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Last edited by dbaz; 08-14-2013 at 02:44 PM.
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Old 08-14-2013, 02:37 PM   #75
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seriously, there was no need for that. dbaz wasn't even being confrontational. but i guess people would rather write a big, angry wall of text full of insults for some thanks.
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