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Old 08-15-2013, 11:00 AM   #126
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7 million people in a 1000 km area vs 2.5 million in a 3000km area.

Not even comparable.

It have nothing to do with population is the way how our tansit is run. Did I mention about the frquency of the buse and skytrain? Am I complainning about lack of service in certain area? Read and think before you post anything. Zone system should be phase out years and years ago.

It makes no sense to make someone pay the same if they were traveling from New West to Waterfront VS someone traveling from Patterson to Joyce.

It also makes no snese that paying cash on the bus the trasfer fare won't be able to use it with skytrain when it was fine before. What translink can do is have people station at skytrain stations and have them open the gates for people who have a vaild bus trasnfer to get on the skytrain and then upgrade the bus slowly to allow fare that's purchase on the bus with cash can go on the skytrain as well.

If tanslink doesn't want to do that, then they simply need to let people who will use casht o pay for the bus fare and later trasnfer to the skytrain for free. As they claims only 6000 people is affect I am sure they can allow 6000 people to ride the bus for free and then pay when they go on the skytrain.
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Old 08-15-2013, 11:06 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp View Post
It have nothing to do with population is the way how our tansit is run. Did I mention about the frquency of the buse and skytrain? Am I complainning about lack of service in certain area? Read and think before you post anything. Zone system should be phase out years and years ago.

It makes no sense to make someone pay the same if they were traveling from New West to Waterfront VS someone traveling from Patterson to Joyce.

It also makes no snese that paying cash on the bus the trasfer fare won't be able to use it with skytrain when it was fine before. What translink can do is have people station at skytrain stations and have them open the gates for people who have a vaild bus trasnfer to get on the skytrain and then upgrade the bus slowly to allow fare that's purchase on the bus with cash can go on the skytrain as well.

If tanslink doesn't want to do that, then they simply need to let people who will use casht o pay for the bus fare and later trasnfer to the skytrain for free. As they claims only 6000 people is affect I am sure they can allow 6000 people to ride the bus for free and then pay when they go on the skytrain.
You probably would have been better off saying all that in your last post rather than making a blanket statement about "X is better than Y" and leaving at that.

Just sayin'.
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Old 08-15-2013, 11:11 AM   #128
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On a sidenote, what I think Translink should do is spend portion of that 25 million from not upgrading the buses fully to install schedules on each bus stop.

It would be nice to see which buses pass through at each stop, and the full schedule of their routes.
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Old 08-15-2013, 11:11 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp View Post
It have nothing to do with population is the way how our tansit is run. Did I mention about the frquency of the buse and skytrain? Am I complainning about lack of service in certain area? Read and think before you post anything. Zone system should be phase out years and years ago.

It makes no sense to make someone pay the same if they were traveling from New West to Waterfront VS someone traveling from Patterson to Joyce.

It also makes no snese that paying cash on the bus the trasfer fare won't be able to use it with skytrain when it was fine before. What translink can do is have people station at skytrain stations and have them open the gates for people who have a vaild bus trasnfer to get on the skytrain and then upgrade the bus slowly to allow fare that's purchase on the bus with cash can go on the skytrain as well.

If tanslink doesn't want to do that, then they simply need to let people who will use casht o pay for the bus fare and later trasnfer to the skytrain for free. As they claims only 6000 people is affect I am sure they can allow 6000 people to ride the bus for free and then pay when they go on the skytrain.
Alright, let me break it down for you. Zones should be done away with years ago. Yes, abso-fucking-lutely. However, until the compass pass, it was IMPOSSIBLE for translink to know where you got on and off. Now, hopefully moving forward, we will be able to use a distance base measure instead of zones. Everyone wants this (even translink).

As for the transfers, do you know much money it would be to build and maintain these machines for such a small population? The cost would likely be huge with absolutely no payoff because it will run large deficits. And guess who has to foot the bill? That's right! The tax payers. By actually not allowing these transfers, translink is actually saving you and me money so I do not have an issue with this at all.

At the end of the day, why not opt for compass pass/card? It's not like they are making it impossible for you to get one. If it is people who are choosing to be willfully ignorant then those who chose that can go and pay twice. For the rest us, we'll just be enjoying our compass pass without hassle and our discounts with it.
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Old 08-15-2013, 11:18 AM   #130
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Alright, let me break it down for you. Zones should be done away with years ago. Yes, abso-fucking-lutely. However, until the compass pass, it was IMPOSSIBLE for translink to know where you got on and off. Now, hopefully moving forward, we will be able to use a distance base measure instead of zones. Everyone wants this (even translink).

As for the transfers, do you know much money it would be to build and maintain these machines for such a small population? The cost would likely be use with absolutely no payoff because it will run huge deficits. And guess who has to foot the bill? That's right! The tax payers. By actually not allowing these transfers, translink is actually saving you and me money so I do not have an issue with this at all.

At the end of the day, why not opt for compass pass/card? It's not like they are making it impossible for you to get one. If it is people who are choosing to be willfully ignorant then those who chose that can go and pay twice. For the rest us, we'll just be enjoying our compass pass without hassle and our discounts with it.
OMG...read and understand the article? check. Comprehends the issue? check. Understands the limitations of money, return on investment and not having to bend the entire system to cater to a few non-users that refuse to adapt?

Mother-f**king check.

You sir, are winner of the best post of the day award, and its not even noon.
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Old 08-15-2013, 12:21 PM   #131
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Old 08-15-2013, 12:31 PM   #132
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Frustrating and disappointing, but a nonsequitur in this thread, and just more translink-bashing (which isn't entirely in the wrong, to be fair).
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Old 08-15-2013, 12:35 PM   #133
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On a sidenote, what I think Translink should do is spend portion of that 25 million from not upgrading the buses fully to install schedules on each bus stop.

It would be nice to see which buses pass through at each stop, and the full schedule of their routes.
Schedules change too frequently to justify the cost of maintaining up-to-date schedules at each stop. However, you can send a text to "33333" with the stop number (5-digit number on each stop) to see when your next bus will arrive (in real time).
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Old 08-15-2013, 12:38 PM   #134
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Frustrating and disappointing, but a nonsequitur in this thread, and just more translink-bashing (which isn't entirely in the wrong, to be fair).
The mayors should just fire all of the management at Translink and hire people on RS for 50K to solve all of the problems.

But, on a more serious note, management salaries should be capped at like 100-120K/year.
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Old 08-15-2013, 12:50 PM   #135
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Nearly $400k/yr for "managing" this POS company? You've gotta be fxxking kidding me.

I wonder how different Translink would be if they replaced this $400k/yr bloke with a a $150k/yr CEO instead. Even if the $150k CEO is just as crappy as the current fellow, at least the BC tax payers would enjoy a $250k savings per year. Surely that would be enough to develop and install at least a few bus transfer-to-compass card machine at different Skytrain stations...
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Old 08-15-2013, 12:54 PM   #136
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So, they bring in the Compass Card, which is more than capable of charging commuters based on distance-traveled, as that would be cheaper than paying per zone, yet they still keep the same system?

No wonder most are still driving.
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Old 08-15-2013, 01:01 PM   #137
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So, they bring in the Compass Card, which is more than capable of charging commuters based on distance-traveled, as that would be cheaper than paying per zone, yet they still keep the same system?

No wonder most are still driving.
This is an unfair statement. Zones will likely be transitioned out instead of a rough implementation of distance based. Unless we want to see the whole HST debacle once more.
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Old 08-15-2013, 01:07 PM   #138
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lol so really.. it should have been

Translink needs more money to expand into other areas and place bus/skytrains
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Old 08-15-2013, 01:11 PM   #139
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While I usually try and avoid bringing in comparisons between HK and Vancouver transit systems because there are way too many differences, there is one thing I think is relevant to us:

From wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octopus_card
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The Octopus system was quickly adopted by other Creative Star joint venture partners, and KMB reported that by 2000, most bus journeys were completed using an Octopus card, with few coins used. Boarding a bus in Hong Kong without using the Octopus card requires giving exact change, making it cumbersome compared to using the Octopus card. By November 1998, 4.6 million cards were issued, and this rose to 9 million by January 2002.
As was the case in HK, I believe that as soon as people see the immediate benefit of having a compass card, this whole debate will be water under the bridge.

In regards to the issue of tourists, I know that whenever I travel to a city that offers a payment card, that's the first thing I buy. I believe tourists visiting here will largely do the same, especially since the $6 fee is a deposit that is refunded upon returning the card.
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Old 08-15-2013, 01:15 PM   #140
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The U-Pass program is largely profitable and otherwise effective, despite the deep discount.
Actually I would argue U-Pass, while beneficial, is not profitable. It only exists because of large subsidies to translink from the provincial government, otherwise there's no way translink would be able to foot the bill.
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Old 08-15-2013, 01:19 PM   #141
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Hong Kong's experience with their Octopus card is entirely different than what the Compass card could ever hope to be. The sheer number of people in Hong Kong means ubiquity is all but guaranteed, and deployment of the Octopus card readers was far greater than just their mass transit system.

As a matter of fact, the Octopus card is so common that it is pretty much the de facto payment system for numerous aspects in life. In fact, some people literally can't leave home without it because the card gets used as authentication systems for certain apartment complexes.
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Old 08-15-2013, 02:10 PM   #142
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^^
Hong Kong's experience with their Octopus card is entirely different than what the Compass card could ever hope to be. The sheer number of people in Hong Kong means ubiquity is all but guaranteed, and deployment of the Octopus card readers was far greater than just their mass transit system.

As a matter of fact, the Octopus card is so common that it is pretty much the de facto payment system for numerous aspects in life. In fact, some people literally can't leave home without it because the card gets used as authentication systems for certain apartment complexes.
I really want to know why we didn't just have Octopus come in and do things for Translink or show them how to do it. Translink could've also bought old terminals and systems to save themselves a ton of money
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Old 08-15-2013, 02:39 PM   #143
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^^
Hong Kong's experience with their Octopus card is entirely different than what the Compass card could ever hope to be. The sheer number of people in Hong Kong means ubiquity is all but guaranteed, and deployment of the Octopus card readers was far greater than just their mass transit system.

As a matter of fact, the Octopus card is so common that it is pretty much the de facto payment system for numerous aspects in life. In fact, some people literally can't leave home without it because the card gets used as authentication systems for certain apartment complexes.
But it wasn't like that from the start. If you click on the link I posted, you'll see that Octopus was originally for transit purposes only (in fact before Octopus launched, HK was already using a magnetic smart card system, the only difference was Octopus is an RFID card). Only three years later after launch for transit, they started to expand to other retail transactions.

I agree that in most cases due to population and other economic factors, you can't compare Octopus to Compass. However, the point I was making is that it didn't take long for people to see the benefits of a smart card outweigh the old system. I believe that same trend will happen here.
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Old 08-15-2013, 03:53 PM   #144
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I really want to know why we didn't just have Octopus come in and do things for Translink or show them how to do it. Translink could've also bought old terminals and systems to save themselves a ton of money
Translink put out a request for proposal (i.e. a bid) and the winning bid was a company that designed London's Oyster system. Octopus might be a better system, but the other company probably was able to deliver the goods at a lower price.
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Old 08-15-2013, 04:32 PM   #145
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But it wasn't like that from the start. If you click on the link I posted, you'll see that Octopus was originally for transit purposes only (in fact before Octopus launched, HK was already using a magnetic smart card system, the only difference was Octopus is an RFID card). Only three years later after launch for transit, they started to expand to other retail transactions.

I agree that in most cases due to population and other economic factors, you can't compare Octopus to Compass. However, the point I was making is that it didn't take long for people to see the benefits of a smart card outweigh the old system. I believe that same trend will happen here.


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Old 08-15-2013, 04:51 PM   #146
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Old 08-15-2013, 06:32 PM   #147
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They should just have it one flat fee to use the transit system for a given time period and get rid of the zone system. swiping to exit could be annoying.
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Old 08-15-2013, 06:46 PM   #148
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They should just have it one flat fee to use the transit system for a given time period and get rid of the zone system. swiping to exit could be annoying.
We'll get used to it.
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Old 08-15-2013, 08:40 PM   #149
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all the people who are complaining about how inconvenient it is going to be tapping in and out, have you guys ever been out of vancouver before?
the amount of vancouverites that are so small/closed minded is just....sigh..
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Old 08-15-2013, 08:50 PM   #150
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was pissed off at this idea when I first read it, and now I could care less.

I don't take transit, and I avoid it at all costs. id take a cab before I take a bus/train.

when I buy a house i'll be buying outside the gvrd so I don't have to deal with these stupid gas prices, transit systems, and cramped up shitty city problems.
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