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Old 08-29-2013, 08:08 PM   #76
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i bet americans don't even know that word and canada seems to have forgotten it too
The days of Canadian Soldiers wearing blue UN helmets is over, along with our past role as peacekeepers. Most Canadian citizens are still stuck in the past and can't come to the realization that the CF now a combat-capable force.
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Old 08-29-2013, 08:18 PM   #77
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The days of Canadian Soldiers wearing blue UN helmets is over, along with our past role as peacekeepers. Most Canadian citizens are still stuck in the past
Why do you think that is?
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Old 08-29-2013, 08:24 PM   #78
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Why do you think that is?
Our recent missions in Kosovo, Afghanistan and recently Libya. All three resulted in thousands of dead people, that is hardly what you call peacekeeping. Also I don't consider missions like Haiti peacekeeping, that is more humanitarian. There is nothing the CF can do directly in Syria besides send in fighters or boots on the ground. Either options will result in bombs being dropped and bullets fired. There has to be peace first before you can keep it.
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Old 08-29-2013, 08:58 PM   #79
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We were always combat-capable, peacekeeping has been far more dangerous than simply dropping bombs from above

Harper has driven our military and our mindset far more into a warring/combat attitude though

and as i mentioned we've forgotten the meaning of peacekeeping but that's thanks to the actions of our administration

imo that's a shame


(i don't think peacekeeping would work in the case of Syria mind you, since it's a proxy war)
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Old 08-29-2013, 09:15 PM   #80
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No one cares to anymore.

Post 9/11, no one cares what the UN has to say about your war(Iraq) and no one cares what the world has to say about your war(Iraq).

Yeah, you can go in and make a case that so and so did such and such but everyone knows...if you don't get an answer you like, you lie to get the "correct" one.

Shit...they didn't do anything to directly endanger your country? No worries. Bomb them away. That regime ain't gonna change itself.
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Old 08-29-2013, 10:58 PM   #81
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Harper has driven our military and our mindset far more into a warring/combat attitude though
"We're not the public service of Canada. We're not just another department. We are the Canadian Forces, and our job is to be able to kill people." - Ret. Gen Hillier
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Old 08-30-2013, 04:13 AM   #82
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Yes I think why the general was so surprised by Canadians reactions when he said this is he's confused our expectations of the military to be knowledge of it's capabilities. All soldiers and militaries should and do have the capability of killing but our role as Canada isn't...wasn't one of warring and killing but rather our identity as a nation was one of defense and peacekeeping so no doubt it came as a surprise to Canadians when general hillier came out and basically said "I'm here to kill" but he was appointed well past 9/11 so it's not a complete shock that someone with his mindset would be promoted to that position (by Martin I believe?)

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Old 08-30-2013, 07:49 AM   #83
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It's true and the right mind frame. Their job is to kill people and if they don't think that way if something was to happen it would make them a weaker opponent. The Canadian Forces has to be ready at the drop of a dime to act if something was to happen, just because we are a peaceful country next to the worlds greatest superpower doesn't mean we can sit back with smiles playing ping pong like forest gump!!

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Old 08-30-2013, 10:25 AM   #84
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The world reacts to the crisis in Syria

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Old 08-30-2013, 12:38 PM   #85
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"We're not the public service of Canada. We're not just another department. We are the Canadian Forces, and our job is to be able to kill people." - Ret. Gen Hillier
Quote:
Yes, well there are a lot of bleeding hearts around who just don't like to see people with helmets and guns. All I can say is, go on and bleed, but it is more important to keep law and order in this society than to be worried about weak-kneed people who don't like the looks of a soldier's helmet. -Trudeau
yes i know, a different situation, but same shit.

ppl think our army issues assault rifles that shoot out rainbows and aid packages. and our jets drop gum balls or something.
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Old 08-30-2013, 06:36 PM   #86
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Update:

After the fall of Saddam and Iraq in 2003, Assad predicted America would bare it's fangs at his country, Syria and has apparently been preparing for Western intervention since then. Coincidence? You be the judge.

Russia sending multiple warships into the vicinity of Syria. US navy is also in the vicinity waiting for orders.

US officials still have doubts about evidence gathered so far. Questions still remain on who controls the supply of chemical weapons and who is using them. Still no concrete evidence while America continues to threaten Assad.

UN is stern on no intervention until the green light. Thank god for not being trigger happy?
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Old 08-30-2013, 06:50 PM   #87
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Perhaps a little off topic....... OK, a lot off topic, but.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Canada_during_World_War_II
Quebec, LOL. Never felt like they were part of this country from day one. This didn't help.

Now, if it were today, how many of the New Immigrants we have in Canada would enlist? Would they fight for this country? Back in WWII, Canadians of hinese and Japanese ancestry, enlisted and fought fierce battles. These regiments were often abused, but in the end, they proved to the rest of Canada that immigrants had just as much at stake as the rest of the citizens.

I believe immigrants from countries that have been war torn and ravaged, would fight for this country in a heartbeat, because they have so much to gain, or should I say lose. I know the world is different now (warfare, training, etc.), but in the end, where do people's loyalties lie?
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Old 08-30-2013, 07:26 PM   #88
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Perhaps a little off topic....... OK, a lot off topic, but.

Military history of Canada during World War II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quebec, LOL. Never felt like they were part of this country from day one. This didn't help.

Now, if it were today, how many of the New Immigrants we have in Canada would enlist? Would they fight for this country? Back in WWII, Canadians of hinese and Japanese ancestry, enlisted and fought fierce battles. These regiments were often abused, but in the end, they proved to the rest of Canada that immigrants had just as much at stake as the rest of the citizens.

I believe immigrants from countries that have been war torn and ravaged, would fight for this country in a heartbeat, because they have so much to gain, or should I say lose. I know the world is different now (warfare, training, etc.), but in the end, where do people's loyalties lie?
I would fight for Canada because this is my country.
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Old 08-30-2013, 08:18 PM   #89
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just going to leave this here

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Old 08-30-2013, 09:25 PM   #90
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Putin gets crazier by the minute. That's what I worry about.
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Old 08-30-2013, 09:43 PM   #91
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Oh btw this is the evidence that the US released


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U.S. Government Assessment of the Syrian Government’sUse of Chemical Weapons on August 21, 2013


The United States Government assesses with high confidence that the Syrian government carried out a chemical weapons attack in the Damascus suburbs on August 21, 2013. We further assess that the regime used a nerve agent in the attack. These all-source assessments are based on human, signals, and geospatial intelligence as well as a significant body of open source reporting.

Our classified assessments have been shared with the U.S. Congress and keyinternational partners. To protect sources and methods, we cannot publicly release all availableintelligence – but what follows is an unclassified summary of the U.S. Intelligence Community’sanalysis of what took place.
Syrian Government Use of Chemical Weapons on August 21
A large body of independent sources indicates that a chemical weapons attack took place in theDamascus suburbs on August 21. In addition to U.S. intelligence information, there are accountsfrom international and Syrian medical personnel; videos; witness accounts; thousands of socialmedia reports from at least 12 different locations in the Damascus area; journalist accounts; and reports from highly credible nongovernmental organizations.A preliminary U.S. government assessment determined that 1,429 people were killed in thechemical weapons attack, including at least 426 children, though this assessment will certainlyevolve as we obtain more information.We assess with high confidence that the Syrian government carried out the chemical weaponsattack against opposition elements in the Damascus suburbs on August 21. We assess that thescenario in which the opposition executed the attack on August 21 is highly unlikely. The bodyof information used to make this assessment includes intelligence pertaining to the regime’s preparations for this attack and its means of delivery, multiple streams of intelligence about theattack itself and its effect, our post-attack observations, and the differences between thecapabilities of the regime and the opposition. Our high confidence assessment is the strongest position that the U.S. Intelligence Community can take short of confirmation. We will continueto seek additional information to close gaps in our understanding of what took place.

2
Background:
The Syrian regime maintains a stockpile of numerous chemical agents, including mustard, sarin,and VX and has thousands of munitions that can be used to deliver chemical warfare agents.Syrian President Bashar al-Asad is the ultimate decision maker for the chemical weapons program and members of the program are carefully vetted to ensure security and loyalty. TheSyrian Scientific Studies and Research Center (SSRC) – which is subordinate to the SyrianMinistry of Defense – manages Syria’s chemical weapons program.We assess with high confidence that the Syrian regime has used chemical weapons on a smallscale against the opposition multiple times in the last year, including in the Damascus suburbs. This assessment is based on multiple streams of information including reporting of Syrianofficials planning and executing chemical weapons attacks and laboratory analysis of physiological samples obtained from a number of individuals, which revealed exposure to sarin.We assess that the opposition has not used chemical weapons.The Syrian regime has the types of munitions that we assess were used to carry out the attack onAugust 21, and has the ability to strike simultaneously in multiple locations. We have seen noindication that the opposition has carried out a large-scale, coordinated rocket and artillery attack like the one that occurred on August 21.

We assess that the Syrian regime has used chemical weapons over the last year primarily to gainthe upper hand or break a stalemate in areas where it has struggled to seize and hold strategicallyvaluable territory. In this regard, we continue to judge that the Syrian regime views chemicalweapons as one of many tools in its arsenal, including air power and ballistic missiles, whichthey indiscriminately use against the opposition.The Syrian regime has initiated an effort to rid the Damascus suburbs of opposition forces usingthe area as a base to stage attacks against regime targets in the capital. The regime has failed toclear dozens of Damascus neighborhoods of opposition elements, including neighborhoodstargeted on August 21, despite employing nearly all of its conventional weapons systems. Weassess that the regime’s frustration with its inability to secure large portions of Damascus mayhave contributed to its decision to use chemical weapons on August 21.


3
Preparation:
We have intelligence that leads us to assess that Syrian chemical weapons personnel – including personnel assessed to be associated with the SSRC – were preparing chemical munitions prior tothe attack. In the three days prior to the attack, we collected streams of human, signals and geospatial intelligence that reveal regime activities that we assess were associated with preparations for a chemical weapons attack.Syrian chemical weapons personnel were operating in the Damascus suburb of ‘Adra fromSunday, August 18 until early in the morning on Wednesday, August 21 near an area that theregime uses to mix chemical weapons, including sarin. On August 21, a Syrian regime element prepared for a chemical weapons attack in the Damascus area, including through the utilizationof gas masks. Our intelligence sources in the Damascus area did not detect any indications in thedays prior to the attack that opposition affiliates were planning to use chemical weapons.

The Attack:
Multiple streams of intelligence indicate that the regime executed a rocket and artillery attack against the Damascus suburbs in the early hours of August 21. Satellite detections corroboratethat attacks from a regime-controlled area struck neighborhoods where the chemical attacksreportedly occurred – including Kafr Batna, Jawbar, ‘Ayn Tarma, Darayya, and Mu’addamiyah.This includes the detection of rocket launches from regime controlled territory early in themorning, approximately 90 minutes before the first report of a chemical attack appeared in socialmedia. The lack of flight activity or missile launches also leads us to conclude that the regimeused rockets in the attack.Local social media reports of a chemical attack in the Damascus suburbs began at 2:30 a.m. localtime on August 21. Within the next four hours there were thousands of social media reports onthis attack from at least 12 different locations in the Damascus area. Multiple accounts described chemical-filled rockets impacting opposition-controlled areas.Three hospitals in the Damascus area received approximately 3,600 patients displayingsymptoms consistent with nerve agent exposure in less than three hours on the morning of August 21, according to a highly credible international humanitarian organization. The reported symptoms, and the epidemiological pattern of events – characterized by the massive influx of patients in a short period of time, the origin of the patients, and the contamination of medical and first aid workers – were consistent with mass exposure to a nerve agent. We also received reportsfrom international and Syrian medical personnel on the ground.


4
We have identified one hundred videos attributed to the attack, many of which show largenumbers of bodies exhibiting physical signs consistent with, but not unique to, nerve agentexposure. The reported symptoms of victims included unconsciousness, foaming from the noseand mouth, constricted pupils, rapid heartbeat, and difficulty breathing. Several of the videosshow what appear to be numerous fatalities with no visible injuries, which is consistent withdeath from chemical weapons, and inconsistent with death from small-arms, high-explosivemunitions or blister agents. At least 12 locations are portrayed in the publicly available videos,and a sampling of those videos confirmed that some were shot at the general times and locationsdescribed in the footage.We assess the Syrian opposition does not have the capability to fabricate all of the videos, physical symptoms verified by medical personnel and NGOs, and other information associated with this chemical attack.We have a body of information, including past Syrian practice, that leads us to conclude thatregime officials were witting of and directed the attack on August 21. We intercepted communications involving a senior official intimately familiar with the offensive who confirmed that chemical weapons were used by the regime on August 21 and was concerned with the U.N.inspectors obtaining evidence. On the afternoon of August 21, we have intelligence that Syrianchemical weapons personnel were directed to cease operations. At the same time, the regimeintensified the artillery barrage targeting many of the neighborhoods where chemical attacksoccurred. In the 24 hour period after the attack, we detected indications of artillery and rocketfire at a rate approximately four times higher than the ten preceding days. We continued to seeindications of sustained shelling in the neighborhoods up until the morning of August 26.To conclude, there is a substantial body of information that implicates the Syrian government’sresponsibility in the chemical weapons attack that took place on August 21.

As indicated, there is additional intelligence that remains classified because of sources and methods concerns that is being provided to Congress and international partners.
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Old 08-30-2013, 11:24 PM   #92
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May very well be true, but after Iraq and their utter insistence that they had proof of WMD's, it's hard to take their reports at full face value.
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Old 08-31-2013, 02:18 AM   #93
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The fact that they're basically blacking out the fact that Turkey had found rebel hideouts with sarin etc just makes me doubt their report even more; utter media blackout on it in the US too even though you hear it referenced to by some senators/representatives
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Old 08-31-2013, 10:03 AM   #94
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The fact that they're basically blacking out the fact that Turkey had found rebel hideouts with sarin etc just makes me doubt their report even more; utter media blackout on it in the US too even though you hear it referenced to by some senators/representatives
The fact Turkish rebels had Sarin doesn't prove the attacks in Damascus were from the Rebels either. Both sides could have used chemical weapons, for all we know.
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Old 08-31-2013, 04:52 PM   #95
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The fact Turkish rebels had Sarin doesn't prove the attacks in Damascus were from the Rebels either. Both sides could have used chemical weapons, for all we know.
i agree, but the fact that they deny the rebels have chemical weapons or the capability to use them (they deny there's any evidence of it) that makes what the US says even more suspicious
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Old 08-31-2013, 07:15 PM   #96
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And it begins

BBC News - Obama to seek Congress vote on Syria military action
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Old 08-31-2013, 07:58 PM   #97
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Really interested to see what comes of this and what role, if any, Canada will play. This could be a good excuse for us to buy the Stealth F35's once our current legacy hornets get obliterated over Syrian airspace. This isn't Libya where the greatest threat was a dude with a shoulder fired missile. Syria has the latest in Russian A/A equipment. I for one wouldn't mind a deployment to Cyprus however unlike Libya, aircraft might not return from a sortie.
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Old 08-31-2013, 09:03 PM   #98
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U.S. President Barack Obama is calling for direct military action in Syria, labelling the alleged use of chemical weapons by the Assad regime a "serious danger" to national security.

The president's exhortation comes a day before the United Nations is to provide its first update since weapons-inspection teams left Syria.

U.S. officials have accused the government of using chemical weapons in an area outside Damascus recently, killing 1,429 people, including many children.

"It is the worst chemical attack in the 21st century," Obama said in an address on the White House lawn on Saturday. He also called the alleged chemical weapons attack "an assault on human dignity."

Obama said he would turn to Congress to get the green light to take military action, and that Congress is ready to debate and vote on the issue when it resumes Sept. 9.
Threat to national security...?

Worst chemical attack in the 21st century...? I guess it's a good thing Bradley Manning paid the price to leak all the documents of the outrageous actions of the US military.

Talk about crazy propaganda...

I still don't see how the rebels aren't 'sophisticated' enough to use chemical weapons. It isn't hard if you have the backing of modern nations.

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Old 08-31-2013, 09:18 PM   #99
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Threat to national security...?

Worst chemical attack in the 21st century...? I guess it's a good thing Bradley Manning paid the price to leak all the documents of the outrageous actions of the US military.

Talk about crazy propaganda...

I still don't see how the rebels aren't 'sophisticated' enough to use chemical weapons. It isn't hard if you have the backing of modern nations.
Wasn't there reports before that it was indeed the rebels who were using chemical attacks? I've been hearing about chemical attacks for a while. Why is the states only stepping up right now? I feel like this doesn't make sense.
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Old 08-31-2013, 09:18 PM   #100
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lets see what evidence turns up...
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