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Old 08-29-2013, 08:23 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaoTurbo View Post
All opinions and bias aside, food for thought: What would you do if a 14 year old girl which is your student seduced you?
Just asking for trouble. As a teacher, you would be approached/seduced by under-aged girls more often than other professions. You'd think they have some sort of training/seminar to tell them not to fuck des young hoes.
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Old 08-29-2013, 10:22 PM   #27
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...but the laws the law,
I hate when people say that,

Quote:
that changes between states and countries and time
Exactly..so if age of consent is 18 in country A and 14 in country B, then it's rape in country A but not in B?

The law is not to be followed blindly, everything needs to be interpreted with common sense.
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Old 08-29-2013, 10:32 PM   #28
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there's really no way of knowing how or why she commited suicide. there's no point arguing about it. nobody will know.

agreed - stat rape and rape rape are different. yes age of consent is different across different countries. however a) in that country she wasn't legal b) teachers aren't supposed to fuck students therefore it's the guy's fault, it's stat rape and now he's gonna get rape raped in prison

i see the point ppl here are trying to make and it's correct, but it really doesn't matter?
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Old 08-30-2013, 12:47 AM   #29
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uh huh.

so if i fuck your slutty 14 year old daughter that willingly seduced me

vs

if i brutally force myself into a woman while she screams in agony and is trying to get away from me.

both are rape i guess. for the people that have a very limited vocabulary. lol.

oh second example i stick a tire iron up her cunt too. and my buddies stick it in her pooper.

yeah, i am implying its not rape. and so is the judge. idiots.
You know what ULIC FUCK YOU!
Youre a piece of shit! So is anyone that agrees with you on the very nature of this. 14 fuckin years old she's a KID! Slutty or not it doesnt give an ADULT who has a full grasp or should on whats right and wrong and should know not to be slimey and take advantage of a weaker minded impressionable youth.
I got two daughters grow some balls raise a kid and then tell me that she asked for it. You got no idea how a young teens head works boy or girl and thats why we have laws like this in place to protect them from dirt bags like you.
Fuck man you got me so pissed I'd take a bat to your fuckin head if you were in front of me and expect a judge to say you were of equal responsibility.
Do the world a favor fuck off and die you fuckin assclown!
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Old 08-30-2013, 12:57 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by BaoTurbo View Post
All opinions and bias aside, food for thought: What would you do if a 14 year old girl which is your student seduced you?
that's why you teach at the college level
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Old 08-30-2013, 01:13 AM   #31
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You know what ULIC FUCK YOU!
Youre a piece of shit! So is anyone that agrees with you on the very nature of this. 14 fuckin years old she's a KID! Slutty or not it doesnt give an ADULT who has a full grasp or should on whats right and wrong and should know not to be slimey and take advantage of a weaker minded impressionable youth.
I got two daughters grow some balls raise a kid and then tell me that she asked for it. You got no idea how a young teens head works boy or girl and thats why we have laws like this in place to protect them from dirt bags like you.
Fuck man you got me so pissed I'd take a bat to your fuckin head if you were in front of me and expect a judge to say you were of equal responsibility.
Do the world a favor fuck off and die you fuckin assclown!
LOL.

What in the fuck? Nowhere in Ulic's post(s) did he even insinuate in the slightest that whatever occurred between the two parties was okay. He simply emphasized that the connection between the sexual encounter and the suicide shouldn't be so quickly judged upon, and that 'rape' has a relatively unclear definition in different parts of the world which is generally true. We're talking about the definition of the word here and how easily it is thrown around in most circumstances, not the morality of the act.

Chill out, do the world a favour and read with a bit of a clearer, more open mind. The thunder's gotten to you.
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Old 08-30-2013, 01:24 AM   #32
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You know actually after many a lurkings, i have to back up ulic's posts. He seems very rational and looks at the big picture of things. Reading his posts opens my mind. He presents his arguments in a way that makes you think. Sometimes it could be wrong, however we are all entitled to our own opinion.

For my two cents, yeah i agree that he is in a very shitty situation and that he shouldny be fooling around with underage teenagers, but there are almost always other complications. We dont know both sides of the stories. Dont automatically assume one is right or wrong without seeking the truth. I mean we wouldnt want to be ticketed for an offence unfairly too.
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Old 08-30-2013, 01:44 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by BaoTurbo View Post
All opinions and bias aside, food for thought: What would you do if a 14 year old girl which is your student seduced you?
Nothing, because 14 year old girls still look like little kids. If I was too much of a hurtbag to get over 18 pussy, I'd go watch a lexi belle anal scene and beat my dick like it owed me money. Fucking a 14 year old is heinous, because its fucking a KID, in every stretch of the imagination.
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seems like you got a dick up your ass well..get that checked
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Old 08-30-2013, 06:21 AM   #34
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Agreed. Guys, I think we can all agree the actual act was morally deplorable. This discussion is on the legal issues surrounding this case.
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Old 08-30-2013, 07:17 AM   #35
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I remember we had this discussion about age of consent on RS before.
It used to be 14 in Canada in the early 2000s. In some countries it still is.

The problem, IMO, is the teacher was in a position of power, and abused it. Hence, why it seems alright for a 16 yr old and a 14 yr old to have sex. Though, once you go down that road, why does it seem wrong if the girl is ready for sex to begin with?

And no I wouldn't if they attempted to seduce me.
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Old 08-30-2013, 07:55 AM   #36
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too many stupid people cant read..

Quote:
he shouldnt be fucking 14 year olds. but it doesn't automatically mean we should blame him for her suicide.
that was a quote from Ulic's first post and he carried it throughout this thread...

and i do agree with him and this is why, we have levels on every sort of crime that is committed ie. 1st degree vs 2nd degree murder, theft over/under $5000, and speeding tickets based on the severity of the crime. READ BEFORE YOU RESPOND

if by alot of people logic here this is a black and white case... then your speeding ticket for doing 8 over should be the same as a 40+ over and your car should be impounded.

if the lady behind the wheel of the SUV who had "accidentally" run over that elderly lady should have gotten life in prison for vehicular homicide

and maybe you should go to prison for theft when you were younger for how many 5cent candies were in your bag when at the corner store...

i do not condone anything illegal, especially rape. but i do agree that there is levels, a younger girl consenting but not legally old enough is far less severe than someone of age being beaten and raped withing an inch of their lives.

now back to Ulic's question... can he be blamed for her suicide.. the short answer is: no

for it to take 3 years for her demons to catch up with her and decide at 17 it be too much, i dont buy it. we have all had bad things happen to us and as kids it is most dramatic/emotional right after the incident has taken place.

we all know what its like to be mad/upset... the feeling wears off pretty quick... and 3 years later? its gone.. just a stupid memory... there was no indication that this had followed her in the way of bullying or torture by her peers like apparent in other cases... there are other aspects in her life that she just wasnt capable of handling at the time.
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Old 08-30-2013, 09:17 AM   #37
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Does anyone know why its called statutory rape, and not "statutory love making"?

Because an older person, in a position of authority no less is taking advantage of a younger person.

Not all rape is hunting women through the woods late at night.

A lot of it is people they know, going too far. Not taking no, and using a position of authority(physical) to get what they want.

So a teacher has more experience and more savvy to use the same techniques to get a girl to give it up. Sure, less bruises, but same level of manipulation of a situation for a physical goal.

I don't think we can blame her suicide on him. I personally feel that these things end up having a removed level of responsibility. Would she still have killed herself? Maybe, maybe not. Hard to prove.

But a 14 year old has one get out of jail free card to play.

She was 14.

She is not responsible for her actions. She was left in the care of those that were supposed to.

And they failed her. And fucked her instead.
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Old 08-30-2013, 09:29 AM   #38
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When did they change the law from 14 to 16, like ten years ago? We're people as outraged back then when an adult fucked a 14 year old or was it all good cause the law said it was A-OK?
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Old 08-30-2013, 09:33 AM   #39
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Great question! I'm glad you asked.

I think it would have been absolutely disgusting to have a guy that was 25+ having sex with a 14 year old. Hell, I think its still gross for a 16 year old TBH. Especially in a position of authority.

BUT...we get to condemn him socially, but not for rape.

I don't think there were a lot of "relationships" here that were affected by the changes to the law.

Things that weren't said:
"Oh shit honey, we can't date anymore because today its stat rape."
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Old 08-30-2013, 09:39 AM   #40
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The problem, IMO, is the teacher was in a position of power, and abused it. Hence, why it seems alright for a 16 yr old and a 14 yr old to have sex. Though, once you go down that road, why does it seem wrong if the girl is ready for sex to begin with?
You mean, if she has sex with someone closer to her in age?

We could have a loser guy within his own social circle look like an absolute hero to a horny teenaged girl that's 14.

He has a car...and money..and a cool place where he lives...and he's so funny! and He's into me! ME! And I'm an awkward teenager that is JUST learning how the world works.

She doesn't know that: he's about to be fired. The credit card is racked, his car is a piece of shit with a worn clutch and his last relationship was with a 1-900 number.

A kid of the same age is on the same bracket. He doesn't know what he's doing and should be of the same mindset.

That's why.
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Old 08-30-2013, 09:41 AM   #41
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so a 19 year old "adult" sleeps with a 16 year old "minor" (15 if a 16 year old is in the clear)

is the same as

35 year old "adult" sleeping with a "14" year old minor?

like posted previously... there does needs be levels that takes age, consent, and other things into account... wrong is wrong of course, but lack of judgment vs malicious intent are the same as someone accidentally running someone over "that 90% of revscene said didnt deserve a day of jailtime" vs aiming at someone and pinning that gas pedal...
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Old 08-30-2013, 09:50 AM   #42
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I'm with Ulic here.
He's clearly separated what has been traditionally defined as rape, to what is legally classified as such.
He brought up the point that they are 2 different things.
Both societal morality and legally, it is a very slippery slope for what constitutes an adult.
The mere fact that drinking age, consent, driving age, new drivers programs, all of these create a blurry line here in North America.


If a 14 year old isn't responsible for their actions, their mother and father have failed in raising them, failed in parenting, and failed in teaching them from right and wrong.

Gridlock, you say at 14, she's not responsible for her actions.
However, I would argue that is strictly a legal definition.
You have been using legal definitions and societal morale language interchangeably.
The result of that is a weak argument.
I'm not sure if you have it sorted out in your own head, but that's not my point.
I just wanted to highlight that how you are phrasing things, the end result is not very effective.





However, let's just throw a curve ball here and do a quick self check.
Perhaps some people have their emotions are clouding their reason.


I'm a guy. I'm older and I'm an adult now.
I'm pretty sure I've wanted to get laid since I was 10, probably before that.
I would jump at every chance I got.
Looking back on my younger self, had I nailed the "hot teacher" in grade 8, there would be high fives all around.
To my buddies then.
And I would probably still bring it up sitting around drinking beers with the boys.


Now let's say that I'm a girl.
Oh, now does it make you feel like it's a bit weird now?

Is it because we have been brought up to believe that girls have less logic, judgement and reason than boys?
However, girls at that age are probably a good few years ahead of their male peers in terms of maturity.
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Old 08-30-2013, 09:56 AM   #43
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The issue here is people need to have more of an objective opinion rather then dealing with the feelings about what what their reaction would be if this happened to a family member. It is a horrible situtation no questions asked but Ulic has made a number of legit points using an objective opinion which people should respect and understand.

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Old 08-30-2013, 10:33 AM   #44
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Lol phil@rise....

Clearly you need to work on your reading comprehension skills
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:47 AM   #45
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Did anyone here actually read the article?

The linked articles does not blame the teacher for her suicide. Whether you believe the incident to be rape or not is irrelevant b/c he actually admitted to a rape charge!

The real issue is he only got 30 days for the rape charge! That's pretty fucked up!
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:52 AM   #46
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Did anyone here actually read the article?

The linked articles does not blame the teacher for her suicide. Whether you believe the incident to be rape or not is irrelevant b/c he actually admitted to a rape charge!

The real issue is he only got 30 days for the rape charge! That's pretty fucked up!
well if the law states that it is rape based on the age of the girl rather than the consent then there is not much he can do.. unless he wants to lie about his age..



this story is full of
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Old 08-30-2013, 11:28 AM   #47
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Lol phil@rise....

Clearly you need to work on your reading comprehension skills
No I dont.
Him and many others standing by him are displaying predatory nature. Him and many of his fan bois are trying to come up with reasons to justify such predatory nature.
This is not the stone age. We as a society should not be preying on the weakness of youth to get layed. That is exactly what Ulic and his legions of fans are suggesting is ok. Its not the first time Ulic has suggested rape is sometimes excusable. He continually degrades the value of women and children by doing so. I'm not even touching on the fact this girl killed herself.
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Old 08-30-2013, 12:15 PM   #48
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No I dont.
Him and many others standing by him are displaying predatory nature. Him and many of his fan bois are trying to come up with reasons to justify such predatory nature.
This is not the stone age. We as a society should not be preying on the weakness of youth to get layed. That is exactly what Ulic and his legions of fans are suggesting is ok. Its not the first time Ulic has suggested rape is sometimes excusable. He continually degrades the value of women and children by doing so. I'm not even touching on the fact this girl killed herself.
coming from the guy willing to "bash a guys head in" based on an opinion over the internet?

lets go back to grade 3 and learn to read bud, not 1 single person in the entire thread said that rape was good.. nor that this wasnt statutory rape.

simply compared severity and it was a good point... go back to my post about how ALL laws carry levels of severity... and this should be no different.

also. for someone who runs a "shop" you should consider acting a little more professional.
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Old 08-30-2013, 12:16 PM   #49
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No I dont.
Him and many others standing by him are displaying predatory nature. Him and many of his fan bois are trying to come up with reasons to justify such predatory nature.
This is not the stone age. We as a society should not be preying on the weakness of youth to get layed. That is exactly what Ulic and his legions of fans are suggesting is ok. Its not the first time Ulic has suggested rape is sometimes excusable. He continually degrades the value of women and children by doing so. I'm not even touching on the fact this girl killed herself.
You're normally a voice of reason on this forum, but this time you are obviously letting your emotions get the better of your logic.

Ulic is saying 2 things:

1) The fact that girl had relations with her older teacher does not guarantee that was the reason she committed suicide

2) Statutory rape and physical rape are both wrong but are not the same crime and are [and should be] treated differently.


They are both common sense, logical, and FACT. I don't know what leg you think you are standing on but you are just looking like a raving maniac right now...

Mark
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Old 08-30-2013, 01:16 PM   #50
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You're normally a voice of reason on this forum, but this time you are obviously letting your emotions get the better of your logic.

Ulic is saying 2 things:

1) The fact that girl had relations with her older teacher does not guarantee that was the reason she committed suicide

2) Statutory rape and physical rape are both wrong but are not the same crime and are [and should be] treated differently.


They are both common sense, logical, and FACT. I don't know what leg you think you are standing on but you are just looking like a raving maniac right now...

Mark
Agreed, you really can't think of this in terms of black and white.

There has to be room to take into account factors that might affect the culpability and blameworthiness of the accused. There has to be discretion in sentencing that reflects that even if the "rape" is against the law, ideas like Ulic's will affect the degree of punishment.
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