School districts across B.C. planning deep cuts to balance budgets

[SpeedStars]

"Fed Up" (Support the BCTF Protest Rap / Iggy Azalea "Fancy" Parody) - YouTube

[Timpo]

Originally Posted by N.V.M.

There job, eh?

he probably meant "their" job

[Timpo]

Originally Posted by SpeedStars

"Fed Up" (Support the BCTF Protest Rap / Iggy Azalea "Fancy" Parody) - YouTube

[shenmecar]

Originally Posted by Timpo

he probably meant "their" job

[hotjoint]

Originally Posted by Timpo

ok so from how you explain it, it sounds like it is confirmed that strike is over, they just don't know if they're gonna reopen school on Monday or Tuesday?

Yeah pretty much from my understanding.

[Timpo]

Originally Posted by hotjoint

Yeah pretty much from my understanding.

oh shit!! summer break is finally over.

Fucking homework, poor kids

[GLOW]

Originally Posted by Timpo

as Mr. Kevin O'Leary always tells us, it's all about the money

i may be dating myself because when i saw your post i was thinking...


or nelly's ride with me

[4444]

Originally Posted by acrophobia

Benefits for me (a teacher): a small salary increase that will not make up for the ~$9000 I lost during the strike (my wife is a teacher also, so my household lost ~$18000), I can quit my $13/hour manual labour job that I've been working for the past month just to have some money coming in
Benefits for students: more teachers/specialists to reduce class size and increase the diversity of programming available, the government backing off from it's intentions of ignoring previously bargained class size/composition.

No one wins and of course the students have lost the most in 5 weeks of schooling, but don't tell me that this was all about more money for me. The only silver lining I can find in this whole mess is that kids (including mine) will now have a better experience in school than if we hadn't been on strike.

Never have I been so pumped to get back to work!

serious question - how do you feel about your union and how they acted in this?

do you think that inbred hillbilly of a leader of yours is worth a penny of what is likely a material income?

let's not forget, unions are a business, they're not solely there for their members. they're only there for their members insomuch as they can make money from being there for their members.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by tiger_handheld

7.25% over the 6yr term
$400mil for new teacher hiring fund
$108mil signing bonus/grievances

So class size issues were dropped until court case.

So at the end of the day, what was this really about? Definitely not the kids, since it's still in the courts..

acrophobia's reply has already summed it up best -- no one wins out of the job action, but the reason for the job action was definitely not about getting more money for the teachers themselves. Hell, they've lost 5 weeks' worth of salary. How long do you think it'll take for the negotiated pay raise to make up for the money they've lost?

The material thing that counted is, we have some new money getting pumped into the system to hire more new teachers so that class sizes would actually have a chance of dropping back down to levels that have been dictated by the law.

Last but not least, leaving the class size and composition issues for the provincial court to decide is the right thing to do, because that's what civil societies do. When there is a difference in opinion regarding something that is legally binding and private negotiations failed to bridge that gap, a civil society turns to their court system to have the issue resolved. Either (or both) parties may or may not agree with the outcome, but we agree to abide by the verdict, and that's what makes our country different from some 3rd world banana republic.

[xpl0sive]

I'm just happy that the teachers got what they wanted. People may agree or disagree about the way they went about getting it. I applaud them for taking a stand for what they thought was right and getting it done. Too many people in our country are bending over and taking it from the government with constant tax increases, BS fines and levies on everything with the general public getting next to nothing in return.

[snowball]

Originally Posted by tiger_handheld

7.25% over the 6yr term
$400mil for new teacher hiring fund
$108mil signing bonus/grievances

So class size issues were dropped until court case.

So at the end of the day, what was this really about? Definitely not the kids, since it's still in the courts..

For most teachers the amount they lost in the last month will not be made back by the end of the new contract. The lack of money for "hiring new teachers" previously was the reason they had removed limits on class sizes; to accommodate the budget... so I wouldn't say it was "not about the kids"

[freakshow]

Here is the best summary i've seen:
Tentative deal for B.C. teachers means relief and hope - The Globe and Mail

Details of the deal:
The deal hammered out to end the five-week school strike in B.C. will be voted on by teachers on Thursday. An acceptance means students could be back in their classes by Monday. Some of the details:

Contract length:
Six years, longer than the usual three or four but well short of the 10-year-deal Premier Christy Clark had promised during last year’s election campaign.

Wages:
A 7.25-per-cent increase over six years. The contract is retroactive to last year.

Signing bonus:
There is none.

Class composition:
An education fund of $100-million to address special-needs students. The union predicts the money will mean several hundred new unionized teaching positions each year.

Grievances:
A $108-million fund to settle union grievances around class size and composition. Two court rulings have found the B.C. Liberals unconstitutionally stripped teachers of their rights to bargain on those matters, opening the government up to grievances. The fund negotiated in this contract will be available regardless of the ultimate outcome of the court battle.

Prep time:
Elementary school teachers will get extra preparation time as a result of the grievance fund.

Court case:
The government’s appeal of the two lower court rulings that concluded it violated teachers rights will continue as scheduled in October. The case is likely to go to the Supreme Court of Canada. The two sides have agreed to a process to address whatever the ultimate court ruling will be.

Upside for teachers:
The strike ends, the union gave up no gains made in previous contracts, and class composition and the grievances are addressed.

Upside for government:
Wage increases are within the range of settlements among other public-sector workers, there is no signing bonus and the savings from the strike mean the government hasn’t put a lot of new money forward. The grievance fund also limits the government’s potential liability if the court ultimately rules in favour of the teachers.

[van_city23]

doesn't it kind of seem like the deal the gov offered before the strike started? I think it's far from what the teachers wanted. Poor leadership does result in a poor deal for the teachers from their perspective. From my perspective, the teachers were asking too much but that's merely a personal opinion. That being said, it's about time kids get back in school.

[meme405]

Originally Posted by van_city23

doesn't it kind of seem like the deal the gov offered before the strike started? I think it's far from what the teachers wanted. Poor leadership does result in a poor deal for the teachers from their perspective. From my perspective, the teachers were asking too much but that's merely a personal opinion. That being said, it's about time kids get back in school.

Yes, because the government won.

The only reason the teachers got half of what they got was because how much wages the government saved during the 5 weeks they didnt pay them.

Had the teachers settled near the end of the school year the government was offering a contract similar in duration to what they signed, with similar percent increase per year, and also a $1000+ Signing bonus. The $108 million would have been slightly lower (i think about $60 million but w/e).

The union lost the support of its members, there was countless interviews with teachers by news shows, papers, and such where teachers many teachers simply said "Fuck it, lets just go back to work". Once that happened the government knew they just had to hold on until the union finally either: A. Collapsed on itself or B. gave up on their outrageous demands.

Flash forward a couple weeks and here we are.

[snowball]

Upside for teachers:
The strike ends, the union gave up no gains made in previous contracts, and class composition and the grievances are addressed.

It's kinda sad the the upside for the teachers is that they "didn't lose what was illegally taken away from them"

[Traum]

Meme405, while I agree with most of your assessment, I think your summary above missed a very important point -- had the teachers agreed to a renew contract back in June, they would have had to give up on the wait for the court ruling. The new contract at the time was to have the provincial government re-negotiate the class size and composition clauses with the BCTF, and agreeing to that would have completely nullified whatever ruling the court comes to.

As Gatorade has said, it is extremely sad that the only upside for the teachers was that they didn't lose what was illegally taken away from them.

The limited liability dictated by grievence fund is just complete bs and a major ripoff. It is no different than a big FU from Crusty Cunt to the BCTF... In many ways, Crusty Cunt is also giving a big fat finger to the court as well should the ruling go in BCTF's favour again.

For those who supported the teacher throughout this labour dispute, please remember what has happened today when our next provincial election arrives in 3 years.

[meme405]

Originally Posted by Traum

For those who supported the teacher throughout this labour dispute, please remember what has happened today when our next provincial election arrives in 3 years.

Unfortunately from my POV provincial elections are about picking the least evil option.

In federal elections my opinion sways depending on the candidates and their platform, in provincial elections if I could vote for all the candidates and parties to fuck right off I probably would have done so in both of the last two elections

I will NEVER in this lifetime vote NDP, so realistically here in BC that leaves me with Crusty Cunt and her merry band of idiots.

[6o4__boi]

^ I wouldn't say never, i'm getting real tired of Crusty and her shit so much that the NDP seems appealing...

Doesn't mean i'll vote for them, it's always been which platform is better and the NDP's always seems like some undereducated/underpaid intern came up with theirs. The sense i've gotten over the past few elections is do I wanna get shot in the face or do I wanna get shot in the back of the head? Do I take this vial that makes me puke shit violently til I die or do I take this vial that sticks a thousand dildos up my ass before I die? Either way I'm fucked.

There's never really any good choices anymore when it comes to politics. It's always which option is less shitty.

[Traum]

There is nothing wrong at all about picking the least evil option -- all I'm saying is that voters need to remember this labour dispute and take it into consideration when they are weighing the pros and cons between the competing parties. All too often, voters forget everything that happened in the first 3 years of a government's term, and then when decision time comes, they only remember the recent history and the false promises that a party offers.

I respect your dislike against the NDP, but especially in a 2 party system such as the provincial political structure that we have, I think it is wrong to always support just a single political entity. We all know power corrupts, and the long standing BC Liberal rule at the provincial level, and the multi-time repeated win of the federal Conservatives has shown that should any party remain in power for too long, tyranny results. For the system (and by extension, our society) to work, the political pendulum needs to sway back and forth every so often. Otherwise, the balance will be thrown off to favour only just one side.

[underscore]

The problem with the 2 party system is that you're always going to have to sacrifice some things by voting for either party, which is a huge pain in the ass. It'd be nice to get somebody who isn't extreme to one end of things or the other.

[tiger_handheld]

Originally Posted by acrophobia

Benefits for me (a teacher): a small salary increase that will not make up for the ~$9000 I lost during the strike (my wife is a teacher also, so my household lost ~$18000), I can quit my $13/hour manual labour job that I've been working for the past month just to have some money coming in
Benefits for students: more teachers/specialists to reduce class size and increase the diversity of programming available, the government backing off from it's intentions of ignoring previously bargained class size/composition.

No one wins and of course the students have lost the most in 5 weeks of schooling, but don't tell me that this was all about more money for me. The only silver lining I can find in this whole mess is that kids (including mine) will now have a better experience in school than if we hadn't been on strike.

Never have I been so pumped to get back to work!

Originally Posted by Traum

acrophobia's reply has already summed it up best -- no one wins out of the job action, but the reason for the job action was definitely not about getting more money for the teachers themselves. Hell, they've lost 5 weeks' worth of salary. How long do you think it'll take for the negotiated pay raise to make up for the money they've lost?

The material thing that counted is, we have some new money getting pumped into the system to hire more new teachers so that class sizes would actually have a chance of dropping back down to levels that have been dictated by the law.

Last but not least, leaving the class size and composition issues for the provincial court to decide is the right thing to do, because that's what civil societies do. When there is a difference in opinion regarding something that is legally binding and private negotiations failed to bridge that gap, a civil society turns to their court system to have the issue resolved. Either (or both) parties may or may not agree with the outcome, but we agree to abide by the verdict, and that's what makes our country different from some 3rd world banana republic.

Based on that info acrophobia, makes about $86k (9000/5weeks = $1800/week x 4= $7200/mo x 12 = 86k) per year. When did making 86k become "not enough".
If I got paid 86k and got a raise on top of that that was not based on performance, but on seniority each year, I'd be pumped to go back to work too. My next raise is only 3 months away... woot woot!

Disclaimer: Acrophobia - this is not directed towards you personally, but towards the BCTF and how it's not about the money and about the kids.

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by tiger_handheld

Based on that info acrophobia, makes about $86k (9000/5weeks = $1800/week x 4= $7200/mo x 12 = 86k) per year. When did making 86k become "not enough".
If I got paid 86k and got a raise on top of that that was not based on performance, but on seniority each year, I'd be pumped to go back to work too. My next raise is only 3 months away... woot woot!

Disclaimer: Acrophobia - this is not directed towards you personally, but towards the BCTF and how it's not about the money and about the kids.

Just correcting your math - teachers only work 10 months of the year so it's $7200/mo x 10 = 72k per "year". Hmm, still seems like quite a bit though!

[7seven]

I've probably spoken to about 10 teachers since the strike started, at social engagements such as parties or at the pub, and all of them were more than happy with the salaries they were getting and were happy to continue working for those wages. It seems more like it was their union heads and BCTF that were pushing for raises and increased benefits.

Christy Clark and the entire BCTF just look like complete idiots. I'm 99% sure I'll be voting BC Liberals again next election as their platform historically has been the most agreeable to me and I personally despise the majority of the NDPs platform and leaders even more, I'll just hope Clark steps aside for a new BC Liberal leader.

Smyth: It’s a disgrace our kids were used as weapons to achieve the inevitable in teachers' deal


BY MICHAEL SMYTH, THE PROVINCE SEPTEMBER 17, 2014

Ever since the escalation of the teachers dispute last spring, it was pretty clear where the parties needed to move to achieve a settlement.

The union had to back away from some its more extreme demands. In return, the government had to increase the amount of money to assist special-needs kids.

And the two sides had to figure out a way to tip-toe through the minefield of their ongoing court case and deal with the unexploded legal bombs later on.

That’s pretty much what was achieved in Tuesday’s tentative settlement — and it’s a damn shame they had to sacrifice five weeks of school to get there.

Like any fair and reasonable settlement, this is one in which both parties are not particularly happy.

The six-year deal contains a 7.25-per-cent raise for teachers — more than the five-year, 5.5-per-cent pattern of other public-sector unions, but still less than what many teachers feel they deserve.

Then you have a “retroactive grievance” fund, reported to be more than $100 million. This flows from the government’s illegal stripping of class-size limits from the teachers’ contract back in 2002.

The union’s court victory left the government vulnerable to 12 years of backlogged grievances from teachers who could rightfully argue the government illegally increased their workloads by forcing them teach larger classes.

Now the union will withdraw any grievances and not file new ones in return for the money.

Significantly, union president Jim Iker said the union gets to decide how to distribute the retro-grievance loot. Bet that every teacher gets a share, meaning teachers will get a back-door signing bonus, even if it’s not called that.

This is significant for the union — especially since teachers lost so much income on the picket line — but much less than what the union asked for ($225 million for the grievances and $150 million for a signing bonus.)

As for special-needs students, the government agreed to pour money into a new fund to hire more specialist teachers. Chalk it up as another key gain for the union, but far less than the $225-million-a-year windfall they were seeking.

Then there’s the ongoing legal war, set to flare again in the B.C. Court of Appeal next month.

The union managed to force the government off its notorious E80 proposal, which outlined the government’s demands for class-size and composition limits in a new contract.

The union was determined not to lock in class-size language in a deal, hoping to defeat the government in court again.

But though the union won on that point, the government got a “re-opener” clause in the contract, just in case another judge orders the restoration of expensive NDP-era class-size limits.

All in all, it’s pretty much what any reasonably informed observer could have predicted last spring. It’s a disgrace our kids were used as weapons to achieve the inevitable.

But I guess it could have been worse. If the Chinese consulate hadn’t officially complained about the strike disrupting the education of their international students, it might have dragged on even longer.

Premier Christy Clark said the Chinese pressure played no role in the sudden urgency to get a deal.

Sure it didn’t.

Smyth: It?s a disgrace our kids were used as weapons to achieve the inevitable in teachers' deal

[snowball]

Originally Posted by tiger_handheld

Based on that info acrophobia, makes about $86k (9000/5weeks = $1800/week x 4= $7200/mo x 12 = 86k) per year. When did making 86k become "not enough".
.

You have to take into consideration that the wage increase over 6 years averages to 1.2% vs. the BC cost of living increase of 1.4% a year, he is essentially getting a pay cut by the end of the contract (not including the lost strike wages which won't be made up by the raise, also not including the 0% seen in the last 3 years.)

Maybe you get paid a good amount right now (teacher or not), but no one wants their purchasing power to be decreased in 5 years.

[Yodamaster]

I don't believe in "the lesser evil" when it comes to politics, all parties want changes that I don't believe in, I won't bend for something I don't support if I have the choice.

The notion of "no vote no voice" is a weak attempt at making me pity fuck someone just because they aren't as trash as the next tool to line up and lie to me.