School districts across B.C. planning deep cuts to balance budgets

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by quasi

I agree with you that most of these areas need help but just throwing money at it is going to do very little.

Well this is the thing too... they want more classroom support, they want their TAs and SEAs, who are part of a different union... but the $225M they want for "class size blah blah blah" is to be administered BY THEM, to hire more members for THEIR OWN union? How is that not "just throwing money at it"?

[MG1]

^yup, anything a government does, the private sector can do in half the time and at half the cost.

Government is in there to make money for themselves. It's like giving money to charitable organizations. A fifth or less of what you donate actually reaches the intended target. The rest is swallowed up in operating costs. Then, there's corruption.

[MG1]

So, when all is said and done and the dust settles, I don't think public education in this province will ever be the same.

Back to what my friend who's a principal told me the other day. The new wave of teachers (I'd call them the new breed of teachers) are indeed in it for the two months off, the money, and the benefits package (I guess whoever posted that comment earlier in this thread was right, afterall). Before I continue, this does not mean every new teacher is like this........

These noobs are going, or wanting to go, into the teaching profession because their degree in whatever field it was did not result in a job or pan out as planned. So the best solution is to take another year's worth of University credits in education and become a teacher. Even though it's not easy to get a teaching position, it's better than not working. Along the way, most will give up after they realize how difficult it is, while others will succeed. When, and if, a job opportunity in their field comes up, they're out of there in a heartbeat. These people's hearts are not in it. Teaching is just another job, not a career.

I feel badly for those who want to go into the teaching profession because it's their passion and life long ambition - to make a difference. Because there is a shortage of job openings and a shitload of "I want my two months off" types, it's going to take years of accepting part time and temp positions before they land a full time teaching position.

With the way things have gone the past twelve years or so, many really good teachers are weary of it all. Many have given up and lost their passion. No longer will they want to give it their all. Some would just leave the profession. This is not good. With the new wave of teachers getting into this profession with "I don't give a shit attitude" and the ones who have and will stop giving it their all, what's left? It really is going to become a glorified babysitting service. Collect your paycheck and get the hell out will become the norm in a profession that used to be highly regarded.

Getting back to the new wave teachers, my principal friend said all is not lost. He knows of a few who have become great educators. They have found their calling. Some have discovered that they have a talent for reaching out to kids - to make a difference.

"Those who can, do and those who can't, teach" has now become, "Those who can make a difference, teach!"

I don't know if any of this made sense, but I think public education in BC will never be the same again. The quality will no longer be there. I blame the union just as much as the government. They have hidden agendas like the government. Somewhere along the way, the good ones will be lost. That would be a crying shame. Our education system will be just a bad as those south of the border (with the exception of California, Texas, and a handful of others).

As a side note, those mentioned states recruit up here in Canada. They've been doing it for some time and keep saying we have the best. We've lost a lot of talented teachers that way. Again, not surprising.


so solly for rambling on..............

[quasi]

^
Have a friend like that when he finished school he couldn't find a job doing what he wanted to do so he went back and got his teaching certification. He teaches because he's not sure what he wants to do, subs (when he feels like it) no desire to get a full time job teaching and waits tables at night.

In contrast my wife has a friend that was the total opposite, wanted to teach went to school so she could become a teacher and does it full time now for the last bunch of years and loves it.

To what you said there are all types, it's not that different then any other profession really.

[MG1]

Went back in time when my family used to have dinners together and here is what I imagined it to be..

Discussion around the dinner table last night was about teachers again..

Why did this government offer parents $40.00 a day? Answer from one of my children: Could this be the beginning of a voucher school system, dad?

Did some digging around and ding, ding, ding....... interesting read, eh? CIC would be proud of this..........

B.C. today: Labour conflict or school reform? | rabble.ca

For those who's dinner table discussions involve the blame game, this article will not excite you. So go back to your.... hey, that sounds like........ I love that song. Murray Head, FTW!


Take all this with a grain of salt, people. It's just food for thought and one person's opinion (maybe even biased).

[Timpo]

ok so to make a long story short, school won't start until mid October or even later.

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by MG1

I don't know if any of this made sense, but I think public education in BC will never be the same again.

With some of the weird shit going on in education today, I'm not sure that's such a bad thing.

The quality will no longer be there.

That really depends on how it changes, doesn't it?

Somewhere along the way, the good ones will be lost.

How this for a hypothesis: if they can get the union under control and institute controls so that teachers can be paid more on a merit basis, rather than just a seniority scale... that would help boost the good ones (regardless of WHY they're in it, a good teacher is a good teacher) and weed out the useless twats, no? If they change the system so lazy, shitty, uncaring teachers can be ousted, rather than just being blindly protected by their union, and replaced with this who have a love for it... that's not only better for the kids, it's better for the morale of other GOOD teachers who don't have to watch the plugs get all the same pay and perks as them without having their hearts in it.

Then the good ones aren't lost... but encouraged.

[quasi]

Originally Posted by Timpo

ok so to make a long story short, school won't start until mid October or even later.

Highly doubt it and for the sake of the kids I hope I'm not wrong.

[meme405]

Originally Posted by MG1

(I guess whoever posted that comment earlier in this thread was right, afterall).

Me.

Humans are inherently greedy, 99% of humans would not work if it wasn't for the pay cheque. So to say that "I don't do my job for the money" is just idiotic.

[GLOW]

Originally Posted by Soundy

How this for a hypothesis: if they can get the union under control and institute controls so that teachers can be paid more on a merit basis, rather than just a seniority scale... that would help boost the good ones (regardless of WHY they're in it, a good teacher is a good teacher) and weed out the useless twats, no? If they change the system so lazy, shitty, uncaring teachers can be ousted, rather than just being blindly protected by their union, and replaced with this who have a love for it... that's not only better for the kids, it's better for the morale of other GOOD teachers who don't have to watch the plugs get all the same pay and perks as them without having their hearts in it.

Then the good ones aren't lost... but encouraged.

what would the merit be? if it's soley on grades i can see it be like that episode of the simpsons where skinner and supnintendo chalmers implement hijinx to make it look like they have A+ students

[MG1]

Originally Posted by Soundy

How this for a hypothesis: if they can get the union under control and institute controls so that teachers can be paid more on a merit basis, rather than just a seniority scale... that would help boost the good ones (regardless of WHY they're in it, a good teacher is a good teacher) and weed out the useless twats, no? If they change the system so lazy, shitty, uncaring teachers can be ousted, rather than just being blindly protected by their union, and replaced with this who have a love for it... that's not only better for the kids, it's better for the morale of other GOOD teachers who don't have to watch the plugs get all the same pay and perks as them without having their hearts in it.

Then the good ones aren't lost... but encouraged.

Soundy, I was just thinking of you as I crossed back into Canada via Huntingdon. I was gonna look you up, but had to be home by noon.

Anyway, if you or godwin (you two could be brothers) ever decide to go into politics, I would vote for you guys in a heartbeat. What you proposed is great. However, you and I, having been around the block a few times, know why this would not work. It doesn't matter what field you are in or what sector you are in the ratio of lazy, incompetent workers to effective and efficient ones is not good.

When I worked in that processing plant, which was non-union, btw, useless people were around every corner. We're talking management as well as workers. When I pick up the newspaper or a magazine and see spelling and grammatical errors in every paragraph, I just shake my head. Everywhere I go, there is incompetence. We have shitty roads and really dumb signage..... I can go on. The teaching profession is no different. The quality of teachers here in North America is pretty low. Why is that? We draw from the public. Not only that, the Universities are failing the system. Faculty advisors...... wow.

The Ministry of Education. Some of the really dumb things they have done boggles the mind. Yet we continue to throw money their way. We have people who abuse and milk the system all the time.

Getting back to teachers, yes there are good ones. Some are stellar. If we got rid of all the lazy and "in it for the money and vacation time", types, we'd be left with very little. And the replacements aren't going to be much better.

It's sad, but that's reality. So let's say there are enough good ones and we weed the bad ones and replace them with promising stars. How are we going to determine what is good and what is bad? We will have teachers teaching to the test. It's happening right now. The Fraser Report is a prime example of this. Private schools feel this the most. Their teachers' jobs are on the line as well as the school's reputation. Damn the challenging of kids and promoting higher critical thinking skills, we have to spend the majority of class time teaching to the sometimes useless standardized test. Cancel the stuff like music programs, artsy fartsy stuff, and field trips. Let's get those kids on task. Results, results, results.

In public schools where just getting some kids into the school is a challenge. how the heck are we going to measure success? Retention rates? Be nice to the kids, so teacher gets a good mark. The education system in the US is in shambles. Ours is still salvageable. Voucher schools?????

There is no cut and dry answer, but one thing is for sure, the quality or better still, the number of quality teachers in the system are dwindling at an alarming rate.

One suggestion I would make, premier Soundy, is to start with the post secondary schools that continue to supply us with sub par product. Make it so the 10,000 or so teacher wannabes are the best in the world. Then we can start talking about weeding. I guess this is like gardening... sowing the seeds and watering it............. damn. I'm just outta word.

[Timpo]

Originally Posted by quasi

Highly doubt it and for the sake of the kids I hope I'm not wrong.

Here's the latest news.
It says brace for another week, so maybe you're right. At least at this point anyways.

B.C. teachers' strike: students brace for another week without classes - British Columbia - CBC News

[MG1]

IKEA v.2.0

[parm104]

Originally Posted by MG1

IKEA v.2.0

And look how far they've come...13 months later and they're making less than minimum wage, barely making enough money to scrape by. Ikea doesn't give a shit about those workers because there are plenty who would rather cross the picket lines and work (if there weren't any repercussions) and many others who are desperate for a job and would start working tomorrow morning if they could.

[MG1]

It's only a matter of time before some teachers decide to just leave the union and start up their own schools. The ones who can manage that are the good ones........ so it begins.

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by MG1

It's only a matter of time before some teachers decide to just leave the union and start up their own schools. The ones who can manage that are the good ones........ so it begins.

Here's the thing: there is an excess, a GLUT even, of teachers in BC - I think the number I heard was 30,000, trained, certified, and ready to go in the classroom. They don't need any to leave the union in order to staff schools, there are almost as many not working as are working (er, well, if you count walking a picket line as working).

I do have some comments on your other reply, but it's a pain to write on the tablet...

[Gululu]

[MG1]

Originally Posted by Soundy

Here's the thing: there is an excess, a GLUT even, of teachers in BC - I think the number I heard was 30,000, trained, certified, and ready to go in the classroom. They don't need any to leave the union in order to staff schools, there are almost as many not working as are working (er, well, if you count walking a picket line as working).

I do have some comments on your other reply, but it's a pain to write on the tablet...

30,000 or 30 billion, it doesn't matter. Anyway, this thread......... I'm officially out of here. Someone virtually slap me up the side of the head if I come in here again, hee hee.

Edit: Nothing to do with you, soundy......... just waste of time.

[pastarocket]

I doubt that the government gave the Timbits to the teachers in Maple Ridge.

Everybody knows that the government is full of shit, instead of piss.

Striking teachers claim they were sent urine-soaked donuts

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by GLOW

what would the merit be? if it's soley on grades i can see it be like that episode of the simpsons where skinner and supnintendo chalmers implement hijinx to make it look like they have A+ students

Obviously a combination of factors would be considered... how about tests at the beginning and ending of the year, and results compared to see whether students come out of a certain class dumber than when they went in? Not comparing one school or region or district to another, but just comparing that class between two time periods.

Maybe factor in a student/parent rating or review system... averaged, of course, to help mitigate the perpetual whiners and those who think their kids' teachers can do no wrong.

I'm sure there are plenty of other things that can be taken into consideration... there's no one simple solution.

Of course, the union would be utterly against either of these ideas, which is probably an indication they're good ones.

[tiger_handheld]

Originally Posted by Soundy

Obviously a combination of factors would be considered... how about tests at the beginning and ending of the year, and results compared to see whether students come out of a certain class dumber than when they went in? Not comparing one school or region or district to another, but just comparing that class between two time periods.

Maybe factor in a student/parent rating or review system... averaged, of course, to help mitigate the perpetual whiners and those who think their kids' teachers can do no wrong.

I'm sure there are plenty of other things that can be taken into consideration... there's no one simple solution.

Of course, the union would be utterly against either of these ideas, which is probably an indication they're good ones.

Or you could have students rate their teachers during the mid point of the following year. If the teacher really stood out and made a difference in their education, they would remember or if the kid really hated them the kid would remember.

There would need to be some way to normalize the
love (A+)/hate(F) based on grades received by the student to really get a reasonable score for the teacher.

They've actually used this type of rating in a program I took and they have fired certain instructors solely based on student feedback.

[quasi]

^

Problem with that you can have teachers that get along with the students great, are fun as hell to have as a student but can't teach worth shit. It becomes a popularity contest, catering to the students and having them like you would be more important then teaching them.

[Timpo]

B.C. teachers' strike drags on with no end in sight

B.C. teachers' strike drags on with no end in sight - British Columbia - CBC News

[Timpo]

I remember Kevin O'Leary saying "Education is not a right, it's a privilege" in one of his interviews. How kids in Canada are way too spoiled, etc.

[hud 91gt]

Kevin O'Leary is an idiot.